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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Monmouthshire => Topic started by: RebeccaNZ on Tuesday 27 May 14 09:51 BST (UK)
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Hi,
This is my one last try to see if I can find anything out about my great-grandfather's half brother before I look for a professional to try and help me.
This is the information that I have about the mysterious half brother:
First of all - I don't know if Winfred is his actual name because it doesn't look like that in the 1911 census which is the only record I have of him.
The info I have:
1911 Census - his name is hard to decipher, but ancestry has transcribed it as Winfred.
Winfred Thorne age 6, born abt 1905 in Newbridge, Monmouthshire Wales. Street Address: 33 Gordon Road, Blackwood, Monmouthshire Bedwelty.
Parents:
Edwin Thorne age 56
Alice Thorne age 49
Other's in household
Alfred Davies 16
Henry Wild 26
William Kingsley 39
My great, great grandmother Alice Thorne (nee Rumbol) was married three times, a widow twice. Her oldest son from first marriage (my great grandfather) was William Charles Shaw born Nov 5. 1881 in Surrey. Alice then went on to marry James Yates, and had one child - Alice Yates (who went to on to marry Harry Wild from this census), her last marriage was to Edwin Thorne (also a widower with other children) and their only surviving child seems to be Winfred but I can't find anymore information about him other than this census where I can't even read his name properly.
Here is some further info about his parents:
Father:Edwin Thorne
born 1855 in Creech Somerset, occupation: Hewer
Mother: Alice Louisa Rumbol (Shaw, Yates, Thorne)
Born 1864, Paddington, London
other half siblings:
Alice Emma Yates
Born 1890Southwark, Middlesex, married Harry Wilde, died 1963 but can't find any children for her and Harry,
William Charles Shaw
Born 1881, Lambeth Surrey. Moved to New Zealand, married Alice Maud Gregory in Bedwelty 1911.
Any help finding anything out about the Mysterious Winfred would be really great, I would just like to find a birth and anything else that happened to him - if he married or had any children. :)
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There was a Percival James Thorne baptised to an Edwin George & Alice Louisa of 27 Greenfield Terrace, Newbridge 3 July 1904
Birth Sep qtr 1904
Thorne Percival James
Newport, M. 11a 296
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I'm thinking that this couple might be grandparents to Winfred, and that he or she wasn't born under the name Thorn/e.
(Or maybe not, seeing Rosie's post above.)
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The given names on the marriage match :)
June qtr 1899
Edwin George Thorne
Alice Louisa Yates
Newport, M. 11a 343
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There was a Percival James Thorne baptised to an Edwin George & Alice Louisa of 27 Greenfield Terrace, Newbridge 3 July 1904
Birth Sep qtr 1904
Thorne Percival James
Newport, M. 11a 296
I'd say that was him!
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This is my one last try to see if I can find anything out about my great-grandfather's half brother before I look for a professional to try and help me.
Remember a "professional" will only have access to records in the public domain, the same as the rest of us.
They too will start with a close look at the 1911 census, bearing in mind the birth that Rosie99 found.
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If it is Percival James Thorne the only likely marriage is this one
Marriages Dec 1940
Thorne Percival J Vonk Westminster 1a 1225
Vo[n_]k Helena F Thorne Westminster 1a 1225
If you got the marriage certificate it should confirm his father's name and occupation that might help rule him in or out. There is then a possible death in 1982 in Kingston Upon Thames (Surrey), but as no middle name is given again you would have to buy the certificate to see what it says and if it helps
And if the marriage is correct there looks to be at least two children from the marriage
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Also a death for Helena Frances Thorne in Kingston in 2002 (bn 1915ish)
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They were at 38 Meadlands Drive, Richmond, Surrey in 1964/5 also recent register.
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Perciful for me too.
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Perciful for me too.
Agreed - this is the spelling of the son's name. If you look at the place of birth of Alice (Paddington Green), the capital P is almost the same as the first letter of 'Winfred's' name - I think maybe the ink flowed a bit lightly to some parts of the letter. :-\
I definitely can't see the name as Winfred though - odd interpretation of what I see on the census form ....
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1911 Census - his name is hard to decipher, but ancestry has transcribed it as Winfred.
Find My Past transcribes it as Winfred too ::) - and I have to admit it looked like Winfred to me as well, though I can see Perciful now....
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I am pleased that you all agree with the interpretation of the entry, I just hope that RebeccaNZ agrees too :)
Richmond Council has a burials website but there is no sign of them on there
http://www2.richmond.gov.uk/lbrburials/(S(epzglh552xwrpej1sk40ny55))/Search.aspx
Rosie ;D
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She was online this morning - but hasnt commented :-\
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But I see the Winfred/Percival mystery has been looked at solved before!
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=452354.msg3141894#msg3141894
I give up.
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Wow, thanks everyone for your help.
I think I did mention somewhere that I had started another thread before but I never had any confirmation about what the name actually was.
Thanks :)
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But I see the Winfred/Percival mystery has been looked at solved before!
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=452354.msg3141894#msg3141894
I think I did mention somewhere that I had started another thread before but I never had any confirmation about what the name actually was.
I think it was pretty unanimous. ::)
Did you ever buy Percival's birth certificate as advised on the previous thread in 2010?
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Re: Percival Thorne not Winfred
No mystery, he was my Dad, born Newbridge, Monmouthshire 1904 died in 1984
My Grandfather was Edwin and he married Alice Louisa Rumbol in 1899 who had previously married William Frederick Shaw & James Yates
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Re: Percival Thorne not Winfred
No mystery, he was my Dad, born Newbridge, Monmouthshire 1904 died in 1984
My Grandfather was Edwin and he married Alice Louisa Rumbol in 1899 who had previously married William Frederick Shaw & James Yates
Hi Peter!
Than you for your post. I have sent you a PM as would love any other info you might like to share with me! We are distantly related!
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Peter only has one post. He will need three to be able to make/receive private messages.
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Peter only has one post. He will need three to be able to make/receive private messages.
Thanks maybe he will see this post!
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RE: Percival Thorne
Got RebeccaNZ message. I will post 2 more messages and then we can make contact
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RE: Percival Thorne
Got RebeccaNZ message. I will post 2 more messages and then we can make contact
this is your second - reply and you're done. You only need to put a couple of letters, or message 3 or something like that.
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Peter only has one post. He will need three to be able to make/receive private messages.
Thanks maybe he will see this post!