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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Huntingdonshire => Topic started by: Yanna on Wednesday 28 May 14 18:04 BST (UK)
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Looking for Robert Noble's first wife. Robert born 1811 st ives married Sarah Leech in 1949 in york, but I think he had first wife who died, and am struggling to find her. Can anyone help?
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Hi,
Welcome to RootsChat :)
Would this be Robert on the 1841? -
Robert Noble 30
Sarah Noble 25
Benjamin Noble 10
Eliza Noble 8
William Noble 6
Mary Noble 4
Susan Noble 4 Mo
Sarah Peacock 20
St Ives, Huntingdon
HO107 Piece 448 Folio 25 Page 4
If correct we need to look for a marriage of Robert Noble/Sarah. Or you could purchase the birth cert of Susan (4m) which should give the maiden name of her mother -
q1 1841, St Ives, Huntingdonshire
Vol 14 Page 217
JJ
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Baptism of Benjamin Nobel -
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NRXX-D9H
JJ
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Having looked at the 1841, 1851, 1861 census Robert Noble's (living in St Ives) occupation for each one is Shoemaker. On the marriage for Robert Noble/Sarah Leech (1849, Leeds) his occupation is recorded as Stonemason/Delver ???
Are you quite sure that Robert remarried as it would seem odd that his occupation does not match that of the various census.
JJ
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This would appear to be the Robert Noble who married Sarah Leech in 1849 -
1851 -
Robert Noble 38 Delver
Sarah Noble 34
Charles Noble 8
Sarah Ann Noble 6
Esther Noble 4
George Albert Noble 6 Mo
HO107 Piece 2286 Folio 49, York Street, Bingley
On the marriage record for Robert/Sarah their address is recorded as York Street :)
Therefore I'm of the opinion that the Robert Noble b 1811 St Ives (as per you original post) is not the one who married Sarah Leech.
Hope all of the above is of help to you :)
JJ
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Welcome to Rootschat Yanna.
The St Ives censuses that JJ found, based on your statement that Robert was born in St Ives, must be a red herring if Robert was living in Bingley in 1851. Other than different occupations there's also an age discrepancy. The one living in St Ives was born c1804, in Sharnbrook Beds if 1851 is to be believed. There's a Robert Noble baptised at Bletsoe Beds, next door to Sharnbrook, on 24 Nov 1803, the son of Benjamin and Susan. Robert and Sarah in St Ives baptised their first son Benjamin and a daughter Susan. There was a marriage in St Ives in 1829 between Robert Noble and Sarah Fisher, where Robert was a widower. But as this couldn't have been the Robert who married in Leeds I'm not going to worry too much about trying to find his first marriage.
Am I missing something here? Why do you think that the Robert Noble in Bingley age 38 in 1851 was born in St Ives Hunts, when his birthplace is shown as Wansford, Yorkshire in 1851? You only get one bite at the cherry though, as Robert appears to have died before 1861 when Sarah was a widow living with her brother Benjamin Leach
The 1849 Leeds marriage cert gives Robert's age as 38, a widower and his father was John Noble, farmer. Living in Leeds in 1841 were Robert & Sarah Noble, both 35, ie 35-39, labourer both born Yorks, which might be the first marriage although Robert's age is a bit iffy, but I can't see the marriage. Nor can I see a death/burial of a Sarah Noble in Leeds between 1841 and 1849. In fact I'm sure this is the wrong couple in 1841 as there's a Robert and Sarah Noble in Leeds in 1851, no children, aged 47 and 50. Back to the drawing board!
David
Later: in 1841 living in Shipley, a couple of miles from Bingley and 8 miles from Leeds, was Robert Noble 30 a delver (same as your Robert in 1851), Ann Noble 30, Samuel Noble 2 and Hannah Noble 1, all b Yorks. Samuel b 4 Aug 1838, and Hannah b 4 May 1840 were baptised on 22 Feb 1843 at Bingley Primitive Methodist church. Also baptised on 19 Feb 1843 in the same church was Charles Noble b 11 Dec 1842. All three were children of Robert and Ann Noble, abode Bingley, a delph man ie a delver. Ann was formerly Ann Myers. Charles ties in with the 8 year old Charles in 1851, so I'm pretty well convinced that this is the same family in 1841 and 1851. The key is Sarah living with her brother Benjamin Leach in 1861. It would have made life easier if you'd given us a bit more of what you know - eg children - as too much detail is better than not giving us enough. Which of his children are you following? Robert Noble married Ann Myers on 30 Oct 1836 at Bradford. There's the death of an Ann Noble in Keighley registration district, which includes Bingley, in the June quarter 1849 which might be her.
If you haven't got full details of the 1841, 51 and 61 censuses I'll happily let you have them.
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Im looking for the Robert Noble app born 1811 who married Sarah Leech, my aunt who is also researching, said he might have been a widower when he married Sarah. His father was John Noble who married Anne ( no surname yet). He had a son called John who had a daughter called Harriet who was my Great garandmother. I know Harriet died in 1956 fulham, and John Noble married Sarah Butcher. But am having trouble finding the right Robert Noble :)
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Robert Noble...... had a son called John who had a daughter called Harriet who was my Great garandmother.
But this Robert Noble wasn't the Robert Noble who married Sarah Leech.
The "Later" postscript to my message - reply #6 - explains all. The marriage cert states that Robert was a widower aged 39 when he married Sarah Leech in 1849. The family that JJ found in 1851 states that Robert was born in Wansford, Yorkshire and that his father was John, a farmer. How do you know his mother was Anne? In any event there's no evidence that he was born in St Ives, Hunts - I've no idea where this came from. There's no John living with Sarah in Bingley in either 1851 or 1861. And the only possible marriage that I can find between John Noble and Sarah Butcher was in St Ives, Hunts registration district in the Sept quarter 1871, which brings us back full circle to St Ives.
I think you're mixing and matching two Robert Nobles. Why do you think that Robert, the father of John who married Sarah Butcher in St Ives, was the Robert who married Sarah Leech in Leeds?
Let's go back to the drawing board.
- Have you got Harriet's birth cert which will give her mother's maiden name? I assume it was Butcher.
- in 1881 Harriet 6 was living in St Ives with her parents John 31 b St Ives and Sarah Ann 32 b Sutton Cambs
- have you got the marriage cert of John Noble and Sarah Ann Butcher, which will give fathers' names? I assume John's father was Robert a shoemaker? If so why on earth do you think he was the Robert, a delver, who married in Leeds in 1849?
- have you got the birth cert of John Noble b 1850 in St Ives which will give you his mother's maiden name? In all probability Fisher.
In 1851 in St Ives was
Robert Noble head marr 47 shoemaker b Sharnbrook Beds
Sarah Noble wife 39 Shoe binder b Biggleswade Beds
William Noble son 15 b Godmanchester Hunts
Mary Noble dau 15 b Godmanchester
Susan Noble dau 10 b St Ives
Emma Noble dau 8 b St Ives
Frances Noble dau 6 b St Ives
John Noble son 1 b St Ives
Harriet Noble dau 4 mths b St Ives
So the St Ives family IS yours, and it's the Leeds/Bingley family that's nothing to do with you. Forget Leeds, Yorkshire and Sarah Leech. They're not your family. See the opening paragraph of my previous message. The mother of John looks to be Sarah Fisher, who married Robert Noble in St Ives in 1829.
In the morning I'll look further for the first marriage of Robert born 1804 living in St Ives - I've tentatively identified a possibility but want to do a bit more research first. But it's not really relevant to you as I think John was the son of Sarah Fisher.
Sunday morning The earlier marriage of Robert Noble that I'd seen was in 1814 to Susannah Harvey at St Ives, so too early to have been yours - and in any event they're living in St Ives in 1851, aged 57, so they can definitely be ruled out.
In 1871 living at Wool Pack Lane St Ives were
Sarah Noble head widow 60 Char woman
John Noble son unmarr 22 Shoemaker
Sarah Ann Noble grand dau 13
George Noble grandson 9
William Noble grandson 7
John Fisher nephew unmarr 17 Labourer general
All born St Ives.
So there's the probable link to Sarah Fisher who married Robert Noble in 1829
Whilst in 1851 Robert gives his age as 47 and birthplace as Sharnbrook, and I found what looks to be his baptism in Bletsoe, in 1861 his birthplace is "On the high seas" but his age is consistent at 57.
So to summarise, I think that Robert, the father of John born 1850 at St Ives, the father of Harriet born 1875 at St Ives, was baptised at Bletsoe Beds on 24 Nov 1803, the son of Benjamin and Susan (Summerfield) Noble who married at Sharnbrook Beds on 25 Dec 1798. Robert married Sarah Fisher at St Ives in 1829, but I haven't got the exact date as Hunts Marriage Index only gives the year.
David
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So to summarise, I think that Robert, the father of John born 1850 at St Ives, the father of Harriet born 1875 at St Ives, was baptised at Bletsoe Beds on 24 Nov 1803, the son of Benjamin and Susan (Summerfield) Noble who married at Sharnbrook Beds on 25 Dec 1798. Robert married Sarah Fisher at St Ives in 1829, but I haven't got the exact date as Hunts Marriage Index only gives the year.
From Sharnbrook & Bletsoe PRs; as David has found = Benjamin Noble married Susan Summerfield at Sharnbrook on 25/12/1798. They baptised daughter Catherine & son John on 19 July 1802 at Sharnbrook; on that same day William & Mary Nobles baptised their son James aged 4 years. John the infant son of Benj & Susan was buried at Bletsoe on 29 Apr 1803 prior to baptism of son Robert on 24/11/1803.
From Muster Lists of 1803 in Bletsoe is Benjamin Noble, labourer, class 3, with 1 child under 10. There is also Thomas Nobles, labourer, class 4, age 50
Going back a generation Benjamin Noble was baptised Sharnbrook on 20 May 1777 son of Thomas & Catherine who also baptised a son Robert on 11 July 1779.
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Also from Bedfordshire Poor Law Papers index done by Beds FHS....
In 1841 Robt,Sar,Benj,Eliza,Wm,Mary, inf.dau removed to Eaton Socon & Exam at St Ives ?
This is detailed in an extract from A2A database (Beds Archives)
Robert Noble, w. Sarah and 5 ch. Benjamin 11, Eliza 9, William 7, Mary 5, and an infant girl c.3 wks; St. Ives, Hunts Ref P5/13/3/42 18.1.1841
Endorsed: a. examination Robert Noble
c. 37 yrs old. Born Sharnbrook, Beds. 1804 apprenticed to William Jeeves of Wyboston, Eaton Socon, cordwainer, for 7 yrs. Served 5 yrs and 7 wks when became 21. Married at St. Ives Parish Church c. 11 yrs ago. c. 1826 removed from Godmanchester, Hunts to Eaton Socon and recieved relief there. No other settlement.
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Good finds John. The Removal Order ties in with a marriage at Eaton Socon on 3 Jan 1825 between Robert Nobles and Frances Marshall, which I think may have been the same Robert Noble, widower who married Sarah Fisher in St Ives in 1829. It would be even better if I could find a burial for Frances Noble!
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ESCANS site has burial of a Fanny Noble on 12 Feb 1826 at Eaton Socon age 19.
She's buried in St Mary's Church Eaton Socon
A Fanney Marshall, daughter of Richard & Hannah was baptised at ES on 2 Nov 1806
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Beat me by 4 mins! I should either cook or do genealogy.
So the timeline now looks, to me, to be
25 Dec 1798 Sharnbrook. Benjamin Noble marr Susan Summerfield
24 Nov 1803 Bletsoe. Robert Noble, son of the above, baptised
c 1819 Robert Noble apprenticed to William Jeeves of Wyboston, Eaton Socon, cordwainer
3 Jan 1825 Eaton Socon. Robert Nobles marr Frances Marshall
12 Feb 1826 Eaton Socon Fanny Noble aged 19 buried
1829 St Ives. Robert Noble widower married Sarah Fisher
1841 St Ives census. Robert & Sarah Noble, shoemaker ie cordwainer
1850 St Ives. John, son of Robert & Sarah born
1851 St Ives census Robert Noble 47 b Sharnbrook, wife Sarah 39, son John 1
1871 St Ives registration district John Noble marr Sarah Ann Butcher
1874 St Ives Harriet Noble born
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There's a death index for Robert NOBBLES in Mar 1869 at St Ives RD age 66.
There's also a death index for his wife/widow Sarah Ann Noble in Dec 1886 at St Ives age 77.
1881 census has Sarah Ann Noble widow age 71 born St Ives living in Woolpack Lane, St Ives (same address as 1871) with grandsons George (1863) & William (1866)
Robert & Sarah Noble baptised their 1st 4 children at Godmanchester as so :-
29 Aug 1831 Benjamin (born 11 Feb 1829)
26 Aug 1833 Eliza
15 Jun 1834 William
28 Jun 1837 Mary Ann (born 20 Jun 1837) but parents listed as Robert & Ann ?
These are as the Removal Order dated 18/1/1841, the 3wk old inf.dau mentioned would be Susan (born St Ives) who was 4 mths on the 1841 census. However the Beds FHS index suggests that this was from Eaton Socon to be then Examined at St Ives; although the A2A entry suggests c.1826 they were removed from Godmanchester to Eaton Socon.