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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Suffolk => Topic started by: helvissa on Tuesday 10 June 14 09:32 BST (UK)
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Hello all,
Someone I know who lives in Suffolk says that her husband saw in the paper that Suffolk parish registers are to go online sometime this year.
This would be AMAZING, but does anyone know anything more about it? I've tried looking for Suffolk newspapers to look the story up myself, but I can't find it.
It occurred to me that it's possible it might be part of FindMyPast's "100 record sets in 100 days" thing, but maybe they'd put them online themselves like wot Essex have done?
Has anyone heard anything? I'm on the verge of ordering some more microfiche, but digital images would be preferable.
Helen.
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I saw something on the County Council website, probably the bit to do with the RO, that suggested they may be doing it in house so fingers crossed it'll be colour scans of the original registers and not the usual digitisation of the greyscale fiche/films of which a lot aren't that clear (as we own copies of quite a few on fiche). ;D If they are due online later this year, I doubt it would be with FindMyPast unless they're not going to be indexed as it would take much longer to index them. I've no issues with unindexed registers, no different to going through them at the RO or on fiche at home. ;)
The piece I saw suggested they wanted to rationalise opening hours, closing on a Wednesday each week, which would allow staff to digitise "the most popular collections".
While in house may mean another SEAX, at least the RO would get all the income and would benefit the Record Office service. Still cheaper than a regular trip to one of the Records Offices for most of us.
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Ooooohhhhh!!! This is fab news!!!
I'd be happy with another SEAX - it wouldn't surprise me if they went down that road, seeing as they're right next door to Essex and can easily get some best practice tips from them about the best way to go about doing it. The other thing is, it'll make it easier for people like me to access the images and transcribe them for things like FreeREG - at the moment, I am transcribing Suffolk parishes from my fiche, but I can only do it at work for half an hour at lunchtime, and then only because I happen to work in a library that has fiche reader! A lot of the older registers are quite hard to read on fiche where the ink has faded, so would be a bit better as a colour scan.
The other thing of course is that digital preservation is a really important thing to do, and it's possible these days and should be exploited. I mean, even down to me scanning every photo in my Grandma's album, even down to the most random thing!
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Problem with the fiche, and not just with those from Suffolk, is that when they were microfilmed (often by the LDS) whoever was doing it wasn't really interested in quality control unfortunately. So many are blurred or they've let to much light into the images in places. Then on some the ink on the reverse page has bled through and affects the readability. Really annoying and doesn't help when both ancestry and FindMyPast seem set on mainly digitising from the fiche. We've had to look at quite a few original registers at times in the Suffolk RO because the fiche have been unreadable. It would really be nice if they did digitise the originals in colour but only time will tell.
Yes we're were thinking of ordering some more fiche but will probably hold off now to see if this does go ahead. ;D
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It really defeats the object when they eschew quality-control..... >:( "Marvellous, thank you for this illegible cobblers."
Wonder if it's worth dropping SRO a line to ask what's happening? Would they tell us, or is it top secret?
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Just found this via google, they're unconfirmed minutes from a 12 March 2014 Committee Meeting - http://www.rootschat.com/links/0138a/. Unfortunately I get the impression that the inhouse digitisation may be for less "popular" collections, and they may use one of the 3rd party companies like FindMyPast or ancestry to digitise the parish records. :( I hope this isn't the case because if they just digitise the fiche, all that will happen is that people will still have to view the originals because of the poor quality of quite a few of the fiche. :-\ Which appears to defeat the object they want on reducing the use of these collections. The agenda relating to these unconfirmed minutes can be found here under Scrutiny Committee 12 March 2014 Agenda Item 5 - http://www.rootschat.com/links/0138b/.
Oh well, fingers crossed they decide to do a SEAX rather than working with one of the 3rd party companies. :-\
The only plus side may be with FindMyPast because in the case of the recently released Shropshire PRs, they are in colour but were digitised apparently by Worcester RO's Digitisation Service, and Devon PRs (or at least the ones I've looked at) are also in colour. Although in the latter I don't know if FindMyPast digitised them or they were done for the RO.
Although the initial digitisation costs would be higher, if they digitised them themselves and hosted them in-house, I would imagine they'd make far more money than if it went to a 3rd party company.
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Oooh well done finding that - yes, it does sound a bit suspiciously that it would be a 3rd party like Ancestry or FindMyPast. Those sites are really going for it - it doesn't seem a week goes by without another county's parish registers going online!
Just hope the quality's ok...
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Hi,
This is extracted from the Executive Summary of the [SCC] Digitisation Strategy document:
Content creation
• Create more online catalogues describing Suffolk’s heritage collections and digitised heritage material using a variety of business models including working with commercial companies
• Create staff capacity for doing digitisation work in Suffolk Record Office by reviewing current practices, including opening hours, and realigning staff resources
Processes and procedures
• Ensure born digital records for permanent retention are captured for the permanent archive at an early stage as a matter of urgency.
• Ensure CSD or its successor is effective in regularly capturing, monitoring backing up and preserving the integrity of digital records and metadata, to established national standards and best practice
Infrastructure
• Focus most archive digitisation projects in Ipswich Record Office to make best use of equipment and rooms, undertaking a small upgrade within existing budgets
• Invest current staff and budget resource in researching options and the business case for an upgrade or successor to Suffolk Heritage Direct to increase its functionality and create longer term efficiencies
• Ensure the needs of specialist heritage services are clearly articulated in the specification for CSD's work and that of its successor
This seems to indicate internal staff resources rather than an external 3rd party is what they are looking at.
Peter
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Hi
Other Counties seemed to have digitised from original registers held by the relevant Archive and not from film or fiche. This could be related to copyright as well as quality. When the film/fiche was originally created there would have been agreements as to the use of such film/fiche.
Also, permission from the current Parish incumbent would be required before posting online. Whilst in most cases permission is granted there are a small number of Parishes that have refused permission.
Andy
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The vast majority of digitised parish registers on FindMyPast and ancestry have been digitised from microfilm/microfiche, it's only in the last few years that some counties have digitised the originals. In the case of Surrey, ancestry digitised the originals for Reigate but the fiche/film for Croydon and the latter are not very clear in quite a few instances. The daft thing about it is that Reigate microfiche are very clear as I have microfiche copies. :-\ The recent uploads of Devon and Shropshire on FindMyPast are (as far as I've seen) all from the originals, but Hertfordshire went online (with gaps) last year on the site and they've been digitised from the fiche and there are quite a few issues with poor quality because of this.
Yes the incumbant's have to give permission for them to go online, but I suspect that the reason many have digitised the microform copies is more down to cost and ease (ie. they have the equipment to do this and its quicker to wind on a reel/move a fiche than turn a physical page) rather than necessarily copyright issues but yes it would depend on the original agreements. Digitising the originals removes this issue anyway assuming the originals are held by the Records Office as they would only need permission from the incumbent.
I'm just hoping whoever digitises Suffolk does so from the originals, otherwise the Records Offices are going to get on-going requests to see the original registers because there are quite a few issues with many parishes on microfiche from my experience and we own microfiche copies of a number of west Suffolk parishes. :( For example, parts of Somerton are completely unreadable because whoever digitised them (and I think it was the LDS) managed to blur a large number of pages.
For preservation purposes, digitising the originals is a much better idea because it reduces the need for people to check the originals.
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This seems to indicate internal staff resources rather than an external 3rd party is what they are looking at.
That was my initial thoughts when I first saw information about this the other month, but after reading the minutes, I'm not so sure. It does say in those unconfirmed minutes that they are looking at the possibility of an agreement with a 3rd party to digitise on their behalf.
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I saw a digitising machine at a library conference once (oh, my exciting life...) and it was rather clever as it has a scanner looking down from above, and it turns the pages automatically - it did it really quickly, too. However, I can't imagine you'd want to subject vellum to such a machine!
We recently got a digital fiche/film reader at work, which was amazing, as you can make pdfs or tifs etc from fiche - however, if the fiche quality ain't marvellous to start with, then you're a bit stuffed.
I would think as a money-spinner, parish registers are where it's at. If you think about Essex - they must be generating a lot of money from Essex Ancestors, but once you've got your sub for that, you're then going to start looking for wills (and the minutes say that the National Archives report that footfall in archives increase when you make other records more available). They've got theirs in their online index, and some of them are scanned in too, which makes life a lot easier. It does get difficult with Suffolk's wills not being catalogued/indexed online like that (and as most of my Essex folk are in the north of the county, they quite often bleed over into Suffolk, and I lose track of them rather easily... waaah....). Although you get some Poor Law stuff on A2A for Suffolk, whereas Essex's aren't catalogued/indexed online.
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Interesting report on SuffolkCC website from the Records Office - https://www.suffolk.gov.uk/assets/culture-heritage-and-leisure/suffolk-record-office/2015-09-21-FOSRO-AGM-Report-2014-15.pdf. Pages 5-7 are of particular interest regarding digitisation of records.
The SRO are apparently only digitising themselves collections such as Probates, Marriage Licences, and Gaol records with the intention of making them available on pay per view downloads on their own website, a new version of which is apparently being launched this year. I just hope they don't price them too high considering the level some of the ROs are charging for digitial copies, otherwise it may still be cheaper to get a microfilm print. Only time will tell.
The parish register digitisation project looks like its being outsourced to a commercial partner. Lets just hope they digitise the originals and not take the easy option of doing the microform copies. :-\
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Being in Australia, I am excited by any form of digitization, but obviously the clearer the better. A trip to the RO is a bit more expensive for me. ::)
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Pinefamily I agree any digitisation is good, its just that Wiltshire and Buckinghamshire charge £5 per Will (Buckinghamshire are admittedly only paper copies) and Hertfordshire charge £10. £5 isn't quite so bad if there are numerous pages, but many are only 1 or 2 pages, which makes them somewhat expensive. :-X I also suspect it means they don't make anywhere near as much from the service than they would if they charged a more reasonable amount.
I think many of us had thought that, whether outsourced or not, the Probates would be included within a subscription package (or part of a 3rd party site subscription) rather than pay per view. SRO currently charge £5 per page per Will to digitise them on demand, so lets hope that, as they are digitising them in advance, they are more reasonable with their prices. Paper copies, even with the £5 admin charge, aren't anywhere near as high.
Only time will tell. I've had a dig about via google to see if they had completed an agreement for PR digitisation as per the report, but all I can see was something looking for market interest from December. Nothing else so far is visible via the CC website.
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I fully understand your point, Smudwhisk. In the past, if I had a simple (one look up) enquiry, several archives/record offices have looked it up for me at no cost. This has changed, and I am now usually pointed towards their research costs.
It is interesting the range of charges. Admittedly I haven't ordered anything from any of them for a while, but in the past Surrey and Gloucestershire were quite reasonable. There are some that want to charge for absolutely everything.
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Find My Past have the following Suffolk transcriptions....Suffolk Baptisms 1538-1911,Early burials,Marriage Index,Wills .1847-1857and LambertdbFamilybAlmanavk 1888-1917.
It's a start and better than nothing.I remembered a few weeks ago I was using records from Sufolk for my Sudbury folk and I was sure it was FindMyPast.
Parish mouse site has all counties mentioned with the villages and what is on offer.I have found the odd transcription on this.
Ringrose
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The Suffolk transcriptions on FindMyPast are from the Suffolk FHS.
I fully understand your point, Smudwhisk. In the past, if I had a simple (one look up) enquiry, several archives/record offices have looked it up for me at no cost. This has changed, and I am now usually pointed towards their research costs.
The issue with more emphasis on customer's paying research costs rather than allowing free quick lookups will be down unfortunately to Council budget limitations. They just don't have the staffing numbers now to do such lookups, although some perhaps are more helpful than others.
It is interesting the range of charges. Admittedly I haven't ordered anything from any of them for a while, but in the past Surrey and Gloucestershire were quite reasonable. There are some that want to charge for absolutely everything.
Its funny but I've always found Gloucestershire to be somewhat expensive. Their microform printouts costs for those done by the customer in the Archive were £1 per copy whether A4 or A3 for some years prior to the records going online at Ancestry. Yet other Archives weren't charging anywhere near as much. I'd not had any experience of purchasing copies from them remotely because I only live an hours drive from Gloucester. Similarly, apart from a couple of years when they halved the price, they'd charged £5 per copy fiche for parish registers for at least 13 years and when I challenged the Archivists about the fact their charges were about twice as much as other Archives, she claimed they were the average for the country. Had to somewhat disagree since we've purchased copy fiche from a number of Archives over the years and they had always been at the top end of the price bracket.
As for how much Suffolk RO will charge pay per view for their Wills when they make them online, only time will tell. I appreciate they need to cover their costs and the service can't be subsidised by the council tax payer, but if they kept the prices more reasonable lets face it most people would purchase more than less and in the long term they'd cover their costs more easily and probably make more of a profit for the Service. Their current £5 Admin charge for all copies, paper or microform, has always put me off ordering only a few copies because it pushed the price up so much. We've tended to either user a local researcher we know for copies or waited to visit the RO itself. I suspect going forward they won't be allowing photocopies of the original Wills so we'll end up incuring higher charges anyway whether purchased online or at the Archives. I believe that is the case with Wiltshire for the Wills they have digitised. Even if you visit the Archives you get charged a £1 per page for a copy from their digitised collection. With Wiltshire, if a Will is the 5 or more pages, it tends to work out cheaper to purchase a copy online. Lets just hope that Suffolk don't set the prices too higher. :-\
As for their parish register digitisation programme, fingers crossed they perhaps use one of the two main genealogy websites as that would mean no extra subscription. ;D I know when my parents were at one of the SROs about 18 months ago and were talking to one of the staff, she did say that they would be digitising the original registers but, of course, depending on what agreement they do finally sign with a commercial company, that could always change. Fingers crossed it didn't. We know from experience, as we have numerous copy fiche, that quite a number of the fiche are completely unreadable in places. I think the reasoning behind SRO getting the original registers digitised and not using the fiche/films was because the intention I think was to remove access to them. If they only digitise the fiche/films, people will still need access to the originals where the images are unreadable. Again, only time will tell.
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Suffolk Record Office is still closed all day on Wednesdays due to digitisation.
SM ...
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Digitisation of Suffolk Records - Market Engagement.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01hb0/
Looks like excellent news to me.
Trevor Rix
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That's the document I spotted earlier this year, haven't so far been able to find anything subsequent to it. Suffolk CC do have a public site listing contracts and tenders but there wasn't anything showing last time I had a look.
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Oooh, fingers crossed for some Suffolk parish records being available online. I've got so many relatives in Suffolk, it's too much to research in a couple of days at the record office. It was number 1 on my genealogy wish-list this year!
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Found a lot of Suffolk records on FindMyPast.
Ringrose
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FindMyPast have a lot of Suffolk FHS transcripts.
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My latest information is that the new Suffolk website, expected to host digitised wills, marriage licences and gaol books, is due to go live in May. The digitisation of parish registers project will start to progress again in April. The delays are because they have many large projects on the go as well as maintaining the current service.
Trevor Rix
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I really happy to hear this. :)
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Well it doesn't appear to have launched yet, but found this http://hessett.onesuffolk.net/assets/Hessetts-Past---Documents/Autumn-2016-Suffolk-Record-Office.pdf which states that the SRO will be charging £6 per Will for a digitised copy from their new website (second double page in pdf). Now I appreciate it costs money to digitise things, but as other ROs have probably found, the higher the price, the less you sell and I for one will not be purchasing many from this new facility. :-X If you think what you get from an Essex RO SEAX subscription, including access to all original Wills, Suffolk really are setting their price high and I can't think they will get as much business as perhaps they might if it had been set about £3.50, the price that the National Archives originally charged for digitised copies of PCC Wills 10 or so years ago. I don't expect Suffolk council tax payers to subsidise the service, but as the digitisation work is not being done on demand, it does seem rather high. :-X
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I agree... but even £3.50's too much. If they priced them all at, say, £0.99 then 'everybody' would be prepared to download lots of them to read. For £1 you'd even be willing to read a stranger's will .... so you'd end up reading all wills vaguely associated with anybody in your family, instead of being priced higher, when most people would either buy none, or just one (when forced).
The keepers of the information don't really want paupers to partake of their interest .... it's financially cleansing the hobby for the wealthier :)
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This is the notice I put on my Facebook Group for Suffolk last month, and also the new web site URL - www.suffolkarchives.co.uk
Update on the new Heritage Centre for Suffolk 'The Hold' August 2016
By now you will have heard about the wonderful proposed new heritage centre, 'The Hold' which has received initial support from the Heritage Lottery Fund. This support includes development funding of GBP538,100 to help Suffolk County Council progress plans and apply for a full grant of GBP 10.3m at a later date.
Located on the north campus of University of Suffolk, (University Campus Suffolk - UCS) the new facility will house the bulk of Suffolk's archives and a range of archaeological records. As well as providing teaching and research space fit for the 21st Century, it will also form a unique visitor attraction and an important cultural resource for the community.
Working in close partnership with the university as it gains independence, 'The Hold' will not only transform the Record Office's ability to care for and showcase our county's records, but also to promote them and give access to a broader audience.
The project will drive a new way for the Record Office to extend and deliver its outreach work; a county-wide activity programme called "Mapping Suffolk's Stories" will see Record Office staff and UCS work alongside community groups and schools, engaging them with Suffolk's rich heritage in new and exciting ways.
Meanwhile, 'The Hold' should open its doors in time for the 900th anniversary of our oldest document - in late 2019.
Added August 25th, 2016 PHB
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agree... but even £3.50's too much. If they priced them all at, say, £0.99 then 'everybody' would be prepared to download lots of them to read. For £1 you'd even be willing to read a stranger's will .... so you'd end up reading all wills vaguely associated with anybody in your family, instead of being priced higher, when most people would either buy none, or just one (when forced).
As you generally have to pay at least 70 or 80p per page for paper copies in most Record Offices, I think £1 per Will would be considered a bit underpriced unless the Will was only a single page. ;)
That said £6 is exorbitant and if SRO are thinking they can raise additional funds for their new centre through this new service, they may be disappointed. Yes it will I can guarantee the new Will copy service will get used, but most likely not as well as they think. I feel a trip to Bury SE will be in hand.
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There is no way I would pay £6 for a will as others have said that is way over the top price wise. But I would be prepared to pay a yearly sub if and when the parish records go online, talking of which does anyone know what is happening with regards to these as it seems to have gone pretty quiet of late.
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Good news as my great grandad was born in Suffolk, and some of my Essex ancestors had ancestors before them who originated in Suffolk and moved to Essex in the 1750-1790 period.
What is left of the IGI since the FamilySearch "revamp", the IGI has a patchy Suffolk coverage so any digitisation will be great for me.
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There is no way I would pay £6 for a will as others have said that is way over the top price wise. But I would be prepared to pay a yearly sub if and when the parish records go online, talking of which does anyone know what is happening with regards to these as it seems to have gone pretty quiet of late.
If you look at Post #12 on Page 2 (one of mine) there is a link to an SRO report to the Friends of SRO which suggests they are likely to outsource the digitisation of parish registers. The FSRO annual meeting is this Saturday (having checked their website) so there may be another update from the SRO visible in the coming weeks.
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There is no way I would pay £6 for a will as others have said that is way over the top price wise. But I would be prepared to pay a yearly sub if and when the parish records go online, talking of which does anyone know what is happening with regards to these as it seems to have gone pretty quiet of late.
I'm keen to know when Suffolk parish registers will be available, and for me it'll be well worth a subscription since I have ancestors from both sides of the family from Suffolk. (It'll be a good chance to delve into our Otley family, coombs)
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I hope they digitise from the originals and not from the microfiche as some of the microfiche is illegible. I doubt it though. :(
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Clairec666 yes we can get further back on the Otley line of Stanstead and Dalham. And the Deeks line, I have got back to Isaac Deeks of Stanstead, I think he came from Glemsford.
Yes, looking at some of the Suffolk PR's on microfiche at Lowestoft in the past has been quite daunting as some are faded.
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The last I heard three weeks ago is that Suffolk Record Office are in
talks with prospective commercial partners to make available online new
high quality digitised images of the original Suffolk parish registers
(baptisms marriages and burials). They may be in a position to announce
which commercial partner has been chosen towards the end of this year or
early next year. This I think is a very commendable route to go down,
and is an extremely exciting prospect. They will be new digitised images from the originals.
In the meantime Suffolk Record Office are making a start in bringing us
new digital images of original Suffolk wills on their own website on a
pay per view basis. Only a few will be released initially with more to
follow. I understand that the cost will be in the region of £6 per will
which in my opinion is unaffordable for those with lots of Suffolk
ancestry that need dozens or hundreds of these wills. A subscription
model, or preferably working with a commercial partner, would be much
better.
http://www.suffolkarchives.co.uk
Trevor Rix
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Thanks for that info. It's good to hear that digitisation will be from the originals. I await further news with interest.
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Cannot wait, no more traipsing off to record offices, well not as much anyway regarding my Suffolk lot.
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Thanks for the update, Trevor. Maybe if they do a deal with FindMyPast, the records might be available to browse first, before they're indexed....
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Thanks for the update, Trevor. Maybe if they do a deal with FindMyPast, the records might be available to browse first, before they're indexed....
FindMyPast rarely do that until after they've released all the records. More chance that might happen on Ancestry but even they don't seem to release them as browse only to start with.
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Thanks for the update, Trevor. Maybe if they do a deal with FindMyPast, the records might be available to browse first, before they're indexed....
FindMyPast rarely do that until after they've released all the records. More chance that might happen on Ancestry but even they don't seem to release them as browse only to start with.
I think FindMyPast released Canterbury and Lincolnshire parish records as "browse only" and the transcriptions appeared later. Then again, I don't think they've done it with other counties, so we can only speculate on what might happen!
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think FindMyPast released Canterbury and Lincolnshire parish records as "browse only" and the transcriptions appeared later. Then again, I don't think they've done it with other counties, so we can only speculate on what might happen!
Yes its speculation and yes Canterbury and Lincolnshire PRs were initially released by FindMyPast as browse only, but they were released under different circumstances to the rest of FindMyPast's PR collections. Canterbury were released when the Canterbury Archives were closed, albeit not long before they reopened but I gather that was because FindMyPast took rather a long time in completing them. Lincolnshire's indexing has only just been made available but the PRs have been on FindMyPast as browse only for several years, I believe that was the original agreement between the two and probably didn't include any indexing (in light of the fact a partial surname only index appeared after a while prior to full indexing).
Personally I hope that Suffolk aren't negotiating with FindMyPast because of the mess FindMyPast made with the Hertfordshire PRs and the delays on completing other PR collection releases on the site. Don't get me wrong, there are issues with many of the Ancestry collections but they seem to manage to complete the task a lot faster than FindMyPast do. This is possibly because unlike FindMyPast, they provide staff to do the digitisation process, while with FindMyPast the Archives I understand have to arrange it (I know this was the case with Hertfordshire). I'm awaiting with some apprehension as to what the Leicestershire & Rutland PRs appear like when launched on FindMyPast I believe now from next Spring (originally they were due to start being released the end of this year) and just hope that its not a repeat of the fiasco with Hertfordshire.
At the end of the day, whichever site they appear on (and I do hope its not the Genealogist for other reasons), not everybody will be happy and there will most likely be issues. However, with digital copies of the originals as opposed to the somewhat, at times, poor microfiche images, it will be a great step forward. But as you say, its all speculation as to which company will be awarded the contract and only time will tell.
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Whatever happens, we know they'll be complaints about the quality of the transcriptions! I'm just pleased to have access to good-quality images, and it'll save me several trips to the record office. If it's FindMyPast or Ancestry, most libraries have access to both sites, so people who can't afford to subscribe to both won't miss out.
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Whatever happens, we know they'll be complaints about the quality of the transcriptions! I'm just pleased to have access to good-quality images, and it'll save me several trips to the record office. If it's FindMyPast or Ancestry, most libraries have access to both sites, so people who can't afford to subscribe to both won't miss out.
I'd rather have a few garbled surnames than the records not being online. As said we can then go back further on our mutual ancestors the Otleys and Deeks and see if there is a link to Peggy Mitchell Barbara Windsor. Small chance but still a chance.
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I'm eager to find out more about our Otleys because for so long I've known nothing prior to Elizabeth Otley marrying in Foulness. And of course it would be good to find out if "cousin Babs" is really a cousin. ;)
And another huge chunk of my family are from the Sudbury area, so I can't wait for these records to come online.
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I'm eager to find out more about our Otleys because for so long I've known nothing prior to Elizabeth Otley marrying in Foulness. And of course it would be good to find out if "cousin Babs" is really a cousin. ;)
And another huge chunk of my family are from the Sudbury area, so I can't wait for these records to come online.
It was a stroke of luck really, I just found in the Essex will beneficiaries that Sam Otley mentioned his nephew John Lucking of Foulness, and mother Susan Sparke. And that meant Elizabeth had a brother Samuel and mother Susan. Then I found the family originated in Stanstead, Suffolk.
When the new Suffolk records go online I am sure that several brickwalls will come crashing down to the ground. I hope to find the baptism of Richard Titshall born c1764.
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I have really struggled today with reading the 18th century Registers for St Clements in Ipswich. These are inexplicably on microfilm rather than microfiche and the quality of most of it is absolutely terrible :(. I'll be glad to see digital copies of the originals. I hope they are decent, but they can't be any worse.
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I have really struggled today with reading the 18th century Registers for St Clements in Ipswich. These are inexplicably on microfilm rather than microfiche and the quality of most of it is absolutely terrible :(. I'll be glad to see digital copies of the originals. I hope they are decent, but they can't be any worse.
I've noticed that checking PRs in the Essex Records Office Essex Ancestors database, PRs that were not easy to read as Microfiche/film, now that they have been digitally recorded are easier to read, so perhaps the Suffolk PRs images will be better.
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I have really struggled today with reading the 18th century Registers for St Clements in Ipswich. These are inexplicably on microfilm rather than microfiche and the quality of most of it is absolutely terrible :(. I'll be glad to see digital copies of the originals. I hope they are decent, but they can't be any worse.
I agree the film for Ipswich St Clement covering that period is terrible. The copy I viewed some years back was also on blue microfilm which made it worse. :-\ The first registers of Hadleigh up to the late 1600s is bad and that's on microfilm too. I had to view the original at Bury St Edmunds because of the poor quality.
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It's heartening to think that things will get better.
In the meantime I have thought of maybe looking at the film over many visits of an hour at a time so that I always have fresh eyes. Frankly much of it is illegible though. Maybe I'll appeal to them for sight of the originals. I need it for research on two separate lines.
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I have been to the Lowestoft record office branch which has microfiche for the whole of Suffolk and some book transcripts but mainly they are for the Mutford/Lothingland district, naturally, as it is the Lowestoft branch. And a lot of their microfiche records are hard to read, I really have to examine them closely to make sure I don't miss any vital baptisms, marriages or burials which could crack cases. Even if they are illegible I still look at the faint writing closely.
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Maybe I'll appeal to them for sight of the originals. I need it for research on two separate lines.
Bury St Edmunds RO have definitely allowed view of the original registers in the past when the microfilm has been very unreadable (you have to show the staff the problem). I've not been to Ipswich RO before but I would hope they would allow this in the circumstances.
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Yes I hope so too Smudwhisk.
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Hello I am tring to follow chat about parish registers to go online. It is now 10 Jan 2017 has any thing gone online yet? My surname list is for Suffolk ---Sexby , Barnby, Bore , Manning---/ Devon are Rendell, Melhuish and Yendel---/ Durham and Warwickshire are Butler
Regards
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Hello I am tring to follow chat about parish registers to go online. It is now 10 Jan 2017 has any thing gone online yet? My surname list is for Suffolk ---Sexby , Barnby, Bore , Manning---/ Devon are Rendell, Melhuish and Yendel---/ Durham and Warwickshire are Butler
Regards
Nothing yet and so far no sign of anything in the pipeline either I'm afraid.
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I notice that Suffolk Record Office have switched on the facility to pay using a card for digital images of some original Suffolk wills on their new website. They are £6.00 each though which I think is outrageous compared to Essex whose £85.00/year subscription provides unlimited viewing and downloads of Essex parish registers and many wills.
https://www.suffolkarchives.co.uk/the_hold
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I notice that Suffolk Record Office have switched on the facility to pay using a card for digital images of some original Suffolk wills on their new website. They are £6.00 each though which I think is outrageous compared to Essex whose £85.00/year subscription provides unlimited viewing and downloads of Essex parish registers and many wills.
https://www.suffolkarchives.co.uk/the_hold
That's recent, last time I looked it still wasn't available. I lived in hope they had changed their mind. I agree its very high, although could be worse Hertfordshire charge £10 :-X. We can live in hope that they don't get much uptake and have to reduce the charge. :-\ Unfortunately around £5 seems to be quite common in spite of the fact many Wills will only be one or two pages. Doesn't make it any less palatable.
Any news on the parish register digitisation project at all? I've not seen any mention of it in the council minutes since last May which makes me wonder whether its all on hold because of "The Hold" project. :(
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Suffolk Archives tweeted "We are currently digitising our holdings of wills and you may like to know that you can now download wills @ https://www.suffolkarchives.co.uk". See the conversation here https://twitter.com/KeyToThePast/status/853581287147413504
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Today, Suffolk Archives replied to my tweet "What is the latest news on the negotiations with prospective commercial partners to digiitise Suffolk Parish Registers please?" as follows "Negotiations are still in progress and we hope to finalise the complex agreements this year." https://twitter.com/KeyToThePast/status/856934766112854016
At WDYTYA Live this year I once again asked the people who are close to the negotiations at Ancestry and Findmypast what was happening. They both gave me the impression that things had gone quiet and the the ball was in the court of Suffolk Archives.
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Thanks for that trevor. Sounds like we still have a considerable wait.
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Today in reply to my tweet "Good Morning. Please may we have another update?", Suffolk Archives @KeyToThePast replied "Digitising parish registers is still an important project but The Hold (HLF) work has needed to take priority this year" and "Thanks for your enquiry and for taking interest in the project- updates will be provided when possible :)".
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Always the same with them "Still a very important project we hope to do in the future". Looks like us with Suffolk ancestors will still have to keep trekking down the Suffolk RO then.
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Given that one of the main aims of Suffolk Record Office is to make Suffolk archives available to the public, this situation is completely unacceptable. How about those that live some distance away in other parts of the UK? Travel, accomodation and wasted time all add up to a huge expense. And for the millions overseas with Suffolk roots the situation is almost impossible.
The other aspect is that the microfiche copies are poor quality monochrome copies. No comparison to the high quality colour digital images that many other counties have published on Ancestry Findmypast or in house.
We need 24/7 access to downloadable high quality images from home anywhere in the world. Nothing less. Preferably within an Ancestry or Findmypast subscription. If other counties can do it, why can't Suffolk?
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Also Suffolk coverage on the IGI, FindMyPast and Ancestry is quite thin on the ground. Since they got rid of the old IGI the new FamilySearch IGI is virtually useless and many records have vanished. Never knew IGI transcriptions had a shelf life. I think we could be in with a long wait for Suffolk records to come online. FindMyPast has a Suffolk Baptism Index but it is just a fraction of what is out there.
In this day and age we need more records online seeing as it is becoming a trend, and online records certainly help people who live hundreds of miles or thousands of miles from the record offices.
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It would seem that finance is always the problem in cases like this. The scanning of the Oxfordshire registers was paid for by the Oxfordshire FHS as I understand it, and now both the Society and County archive benfit from its availability through Ancestry. Could not the Suffolk FHS manage something similar?
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As far as I am aware the financial implications would be beneficial to Suffolk County Council. Ancestry and Findmypast compete to win the contract. The chosen partner send their team and equipment into the archive to digitise the records at their expense. The whole excercise would be a revenue earner for Suffolk County Council/Suffolk Archives/Suffolk Record Office. Please correct me if I am wrong.
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Agreed, but it would be interesting to know more of the financial considerations and the results of other digitalisation deals. Did Ancestry or FindMyPast pay for the counties they already have or did they just buy rights and the counties paid for the photography? I can see the ROs reluctance to pay the capital cost of digitalisation given their constained budgets, but if it works for others I don't see why more counties haven't proceeded with some deals. Perhaps the companies don't see enough take -up of extra memberships to make it worthwhile for them to cover the initial costs.
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Possibly more than 50% of English parish registers have now been digitised and are available on the internet - mainly via Ancestry, Findmypast and FamilySearch. Some areas have done their own thing such as Essex on SEAX and the Medway area on CityArk. As far as I am aware both Ancestry and Findmypast digitise the records for the contracts that they have won at their expense.
Having spoken to both Ancestry and Findmypast at WDYTYA Live this year and previous years, both are keen to win the Suffolk contract. It appears that it is Suffolk County Council that are dragging their heels because their focus is on other projects.
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If you go to view Suffolk registers on film at the Society of Genealogists you have to sign a register and say what you have looked at because of an ongoing dispute with Suffolk County Council. It is the only county where this happens.
Clearly they are the awkward squad...
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As far as I am aware both Ancestry and Findmypast digitise the records for the contracts that they have won at their expense.
Ancestry I understand hire temporary staff to go to the Archives and digitise the registers. FindMyPast, at least in the case of Hertfordshire, expect the Archives to arrange their own digitisation (whether they loan them equipment I don't know). From what I've heard Hertfordshire used volunteers to digitise the registers which perhaps explains why they are such a mess with so many omissions, nobody was ensuring that everything was completed. Although in the case of Northamptonshire and Ancestry there was a Project Manager from the Archives but still there are a number of omissions. If that is the normal case with FindMyPast, it may explain why Ancestry appear to be winning more of the recent contracts.
If you go to view Suffolk registers on film at the Society of Genealogists you have to sign a register and say what you have looked at because of an ongoing dispute with Suffolk County Council. It is the only county where this happens.
This has been going on for I think at least 10 years and unlike the other counties' film/fiche, you aren't allowed at the SOG (or weren't last time I was down there) to print off copies from microfilm/fiche.
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I went to a find you family event today in Ipswich and they were selling cd's of parish records of each district for £15 each. I did ask when these will be going online and they did say some will be going on Find my Past .I got a little excited and asked when but they did say only some will as the more that are out online the less they will sell ?
Did say that seems a little unfair for all the people that have Suffolk roots but don't live local have no access to all these records .
So some will be going on Find My Past how many and when they didn't seem to know
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I went to a find you family event today in Ipswich and they were selling cd's of parish records of each district for £15 each. I did ask when these will be going online and they did say some will be going on Find my Past .I got a little excited and asked when but they did say only some will as the more that are out online the less they will sell ?
Did say that seems a little unfair for all the people that have Suffolk roots but don't live local have no access to all these records .
So some will be going on Find My Past how many and when they didn't seem to know
This will have been the Suffolk Family History Society?
They sell there CDs of transcripts for about that price and they already have a number of transcripts on FindMyPast.
The question is when Suffolk Records Office will get the originals digitised so people don't have to rely on transcriptions.
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I agree with smudwhisk. Suffolk Family History Society volunteers have put a lot of time and effort into transcribing many Suffolk parish registers and making those transcriptions available direct from SFHS on CD or some on Findmypast. For that they are to be congratulated.
But it is high quality colour images scanned from the original parish registers that we really need, accessible online anywhere in the world 24/7 on Findmypast or Ancestry. Many other counties have done just that, the most recent being Derbyshire on Ancestry a few days ago. If other counties can do it why not Suffolk?
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But it is high quality colour images scanned from the original parish registers that we really need, accessible online anywhere in the world 24/7 on Findmypast or Ancestry. Many other counties have done just that, the most recent being Derbyshire on Ancestry a few days ago.
As somebody pointed out the other day on here, it looks like most (not all) of the Derbyshire parish registers on ancestry are from digitized microfilms. And therefore are not new scans, nor are they in colour!
They obviously have done an excellent job with them.
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Sods law dictated that the first Derbyshire image I looked at as a test was in colour. All of those that I have picked at random just now are good quality black and white.
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Seems to always be the counties where you have a lot of ancestors are the ones "coming soon" or "in the pipeline" when we have to be prepared for a long wait. As genealogy is growing faster than ever surely the demand to digitise them is getting higher. As I said Suffolk records online are fairly sparse and many parishes not covered on IGI or FindMyPast. Whereas Essex is getting better by the day thanks to FreeREG and The Genealogist.
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SEAX aka Essex Ancestors has almost complete coverage of coverage of Essex original parish registers as high quality digital scans. Lots of wills too. Just brilliant!
Essex 10/10
Suffolk 1/10
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One downside is SEAX Essex records are browse only. But FreeREG is making up for that as many transcriptions are from SEAX.
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One downside is SEAX Essex records are browse only. But FreeREG is making up for that as many transcriptions are from SEAX.
Yes but transcripts are only as good as the person who makes them and errors can creep in. Hence, its often better to browse the registers anyway just in case.
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I'd rather have a few garbled surnames than the records not being online. As said we can then go back further on our mutual ancestors the Otleys and Deeks and see if there is a link to Peggy Mitchell Barbara Windsor. Small chance but still a chance.
You'll find a lot of us have done that, Carol. I got rather excited when the name Izzard popped up on my tree, but alas, no connection. Barbara Windsor is my current target. :)
And mine, thank to our mutual Lucking, Otley and Deeks rellies. I traced our Deeks line to Isaac Deeks born c1675 who wed in Glemsford
Coombs, IF your Isaac Deeks in Stanstead was from Glemsford, he can only be the son of John and Anna Deeks. The Isaac Deeks baptised the same year to Isaac Deeks and Mary Gardener was resident in Glemsford when his uncle Thomas Gardener made his Will in 1707. The Will specifically states that Isaac was of Glemsford and his sisters Grace and Susanna also were left bequests. The other Isaac only had a suriving brother, his other two siblings died as infants.
There are, though, other Isaac Deeks around the area at the time.
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I'd rather have a few garbled surnames than the records not being online. As said we can then go back further on our mutual ancestors the Otleys and Deeks and see if there is a link to Peggy Mitchell Barbara Windsor. Small chance but still a chance.
You'll find a lot of us have done that, Carol. I got rather excited when the name Izzard popped up on my tree, but alas, no connection. Barbara Windsor is my current target. :)
And mine, thank to our mutual Lucking, Otley and Deeks rellies. I traced our Deeks line to Isaac Deeks born c1675 who wed in Glemsford
Coombs, IF your Isaac Deeks in Stanstead was from Glemsford, he can only be the son of John and Anna Deeks. The Isaac Deeks baptised the same year to Isaac Deeks and Mary Gardener was resident in Glemsford when his uncle Thomas Gardener made his Will in 1707. The Will specifically states that Isaac was of Glemsford and his sisters Grace and Susanna also were left bequests. The other Isaac only had a suriving brother, his other two siblings died as infants.
There are, though, other Isaac Deeks around the area at the time.
Thanks. My Isaac Deeks died in 1715 in Stanstead and had children up to 1708 there. He wed Ann Prick in 1698 in Stanstead. Not yet confirmed that he deffo was the one born to Johannis (John) and Ann but very likely. Isaac named his first child John. But we can now distinguish which of the 2 Isaac Deeks born 1694 in Glemsford is which. Wills are so handy.
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Can any one tell me please the new records on Ancestry Suffolk, England, Extracted Church of England Parish Records, 1538-1850 .What places do they cover, or are they just the same ones of family search?
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They appear to be from published books of transcripts and marriage licences from what I can see. Many were previously available reproduced on CD from Archive CD Books, among others.
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They don't seem to cover a great deal of Suffolk parishes. I do notice though they have some marriage licenses on there.
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One downside is SEAX Essex records are browse only. But FreeREG is making up for that as many transcriptions are from SEAX.
Thanks very much for this post, coombs. I was just looking to see if there was an update to the Suffolk register situation and came across your post about Essex. Just had a look on freereg and found three baptisms there I have been looking for for ages. Thank you!
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One downside is SEAX Essex records are browse only. But FreeREG is making up for that as many transcriptions are from SEAX.
Thanks very much for this post, coombs. I was just looking to see if there was an update to the Suffolk register situation and came across your post about Essex. Just had a look on freereg and found three baptisms there I have been looking for for ages. Thank you!
Glad to be of help. Yes, Essex transcribed online PR's are getting easier and easier now thanks to FreeREG and FindMyPast and The genealogist. It has come on in leaps and bounds. But since the old IGI is no more, Suffolk seems to be quite hard to transcribe online now. I am sure many records on the new IGI have vanished.
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The latest information that I have about the digitisation of Suffolk parish registers was in October 2017. Here are some extracts...
"Some record offices, who have rushed into an agreement have made their records more accessible, but have since discovered they have not obtain a good commercial deal. SRO is trying to learn from its peers."
"It has prepared by checking and updating catalogue information on the registers held and run several market engagement sessions with the support of the Diocese and Suffolk County Council Procurement and Legal staff to better understand what is possible in a changing environment. At the last session several major companies advised they required more detail on the number of pages and names within the registers to inform discussions. Staff completed surveying the majority of Suffolk’s over 6,800 registers by the end of March 2017. Advice was sought from The National Archives and we have been watching developments by other record offices especially London Metropolitan Archives."
"Nonetheless a meeting was held with Chris Norton, FamilySearch’s Records and Access Officer in August to learn more about their ‘Reading Room’ pilot project which is being built and tested with the Northumberland Record Office who are seeking to develop their own income stream from parish registers without licensing one of the big companies. We are therefore up to date for restarting the parish register element of the strategy later this financial year."
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That was a really helpful update. Thanks. I can totally see why they want to make the archives a continued revenue stream for them giving today's budget cut climate, but let's hope something comes together soon. However I would say it looks like it will be at least three years away if we are lucky...
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Just heard that the Lowestoft RO is to shut in 2019 to be replaced with an unmanned machine in Ipswich. This means if they dont agree to a digitisation quick and put the records online, it will be even harder for those genealogists with Suffolk roots who live within an hour of Lowestoft RO, including me. Ipswich is much further.
http://www.lowestoftjournal.co.uk/news/lowestoft-record-office-replaced-unmanned-access-point-ipswich-1-5349386
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Join the petition to keep Lowestoft RO open.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01llj/
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The latest information that I have concerning the digitisation of Suffolk parish registers was from Paul West on 10th June 2018. It appears that the project is continually being kicked into the long grass. We family historians need to collectively apply more pressure.
"Many thanks for your recent e-mail dated 23 May to Councillor Tony Goldson. I took over the responsibility for Suffolk Record Offices from Tony at the Council Meeting on 24th May.
I agree that digitising the parish registers and making them available online would be an important source of income for the record office and a benefit to family and local historians living within the county and elsewhere who have Suffolk roots.
You rightly point out that the last formal reference to this work was in May 2016. The delay in developing the project is the result of wishing to ensure we get the best possible commercial deal on behalf of Suffolk's residents. Those record offices that rushed into an early agreement have not received a high rate of royalties. We have also been discouraged by the low royalties received from the national project with a commercial partner to digitise and make available the school admission registers.
Since its launch in June 2016 we have therefore been developing the suffolkarchives.co.uk website to make a smaller series of digital images available to download. We wanted to test whether it would be possible to do a largescale parish register project in-house, as Essex Record Office did, rather than with a commercial partner to ensure we benefited to the maximum. Recent projects to digitise the marriage licences and wills have shown us just how much capacity is required. We have also continued to watch with interest progress with the Family Search pilot in Northumberland to digitise their parish registers without licensing the larger companies.
We have also been concentrating on another very important element of the digital strategy, to digitise our existing catalogues and make them available online. People in Suffolk and across the world want to know what information we hold in the first instance so they can come in to use it, request a search in it or copies from it. In the digital age people tend to assume that if information is not discoverable online then it does not exist. 85% of the catalogues i.e. 1,177 out of 1,379 describing Lowestoft Record Office collections are for example now online amounting to thousands of individual entries.
We hope to resume progress with digitising the parish registers at the earliest opportunity but must ensure that we get the best possible outcome that maximises the income that we generate."
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See https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/2353070 for the Family Search pilot in Northumberland to digitise their parish registers. There are 61776 images so far but they cannot be viewed from home. Here is the explanation https://tinyurl.com/y7f4j7dz
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I can't see how Northumberland are going to benefit financially from the tie up with Familysearch unless they are developing a website to sell subscriptions that will allow access to the images hosted on Familysearch. Familysearch don't charge access to view images at their FHC, granted I've not tried to access any of those for Northumberland, but I can't see them doing that anyway. I suspect that perhaps that's what is due to happen but how successful it will be remains to be seen.
As can be seen from the number of lookup requests on RC, some people won't subscribe to SEAX because of the separate subscription costs and/or the fact that they have to browse the registers and not just search and view. While I don't doubt that the commercial companies are paying the lowest royalties they feel they can get away with, I do think Suffolk RO may be deluding themselves as to how much income they could generate from their records at a particular cost level. Higher royalties for one RO from a commercial company would no doubt become public however commercially sensitive and other ROs would want to negotiate theirs upwards, leading to higher subscription costs and less subscribers. Many people begrudge paying subs now so this could well reduce income for the commercial companies and ROs.
While I can understand that Suffolk feel they should maximise what they can get for access to their records, I do feel they are deluding themselves as to how much people may be prepared to pay for access and this can in my mind be seen for the charges for the copy Wills and Marriage Licences through their own website. If they think they can charge a high price for single parish register copy images, where people find what they wish to view from a Familysearch index and order a copy, I think they may be very disappointed. If they don't offer subscription options in one form or another, as they haven't done with the Wills and Marriage Licences, they are very unlikely to generate anywhere near the income they think they can. As we all know from experience, indexes are subject to errors in interpretation and omissions and its far better to be able to view the records yourself rather than relying on an index. Suffolk RO to my mind needs to get a dose of reality on the whole subject as soon as possible.
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As the Northumberland project has been mentioned by two Suffolk county councillors in charge of the Suffolk Record Offices, there must be some sort of income stream or such a project for Suffolk would not be under consideration.
Essex SEAX is wonderful even without parish register indexes. The digitised wills are well catalogued. I happily pay £85/year subscription for 24/7 access from wherever I happen to be. Although I live in Suffolk relatively close to Chelmsford, the costs in my time, travel, car parking etc. make visiting the record office for free access unaffordable. The SEAX project was completed with the help of a lottery grant organised by the county archivist who had previously obtained a lottery grant to digitise many Kent parish registers for the Medway area which are available free of charge on the new version of CityArk at http://medway.adlibhosting.com
If Kent and Essex can do it with lottery grants, why can't Suffolk?
I agree that the current Suffolk pay per view/download at £6 a time is not going to work. It is naive for Suffolk to expect a viable income stream using this method. As far as I know only Scotlands People have made a success of pay per view, because they have digitised huge collections of records, and their prices are way less than £6.
Findmypast were initially pay per view only, but it did not take them long to realise that subscriptions were the way to go.
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It would be interesting to know how Northumberland will generate an income stream if Familysearch are hosting their parish registers, it could well be some web front end access from the RO website to Familysearch whereby individuals subscribe to the RO and that's where the income is from. Mind you at the FHC I visit we do often have issues loading images from FS, which might be down to the local connection rather than FS itself, but if charges started to apply and problems with access occurred, people would start complaining (as they do now with Ancestry and FindMyPast).
I know that the FHC I visit did charge previously 10p per print off from the web, but this had to stop some years back because HMRC wanted them to be VAT registered and it wasn't in their interests to do it for such a minimal amount. While I accept that FS host their data in the US, I would have thought that if they started charging anything themselves in order to provide royalties to ROs in this country, then the US Tax authorities could take an interest. It seems more likely that perhaps they may host them for an RO over here who provides the subscription facilities linking to the images on FS, but who knows. :-\
As you say I wonder why Suffolk don't explore heritage lottery grants as a way of getting their PRs online. To my mind they are more interested in the new Records Office being built, yet you would have thought that if they'd got the PRs online before this, it would have generated an income stream for them even if it wasn't as much as they hoped. I agree SEAX is a great facility, I've used it in the past, although even there I've found issues with the quality of a few of the scans being rather low resolution and difficult to read. Some were rescanned but others I was informed were not an issue. ::) This may have since been resolved as I've not subscribed for a few years as have been working on other areas.
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Thanks so much for this update. Looks like this is going to take a good while yet, which is so unfortunate.
Jon
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Yes, we must be prepared for a long wait. FreeREG has some parish coverage for Suffolk but it is very hit and miss. Although Tannington and Little Glemham have a few 1770s PR's transcribed recently.
Essex is getting easier and easier now thanks to FreeREG. I am sure several of my Suffolk brickwalls would be helped along when we eventually get their records online.
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Here is some news regarding the Northumberland parish register digitisation at FamilySearch that Suffolk were watching. As has been pointed out, where is the income stream for the county council/record office?
http://anglo-celtic-connections.blogspot.com/2018/07/northumberland-parish-registers-at.html
https://tinyurl.com/y9xxsplw
My information is that Suffolk may have moved on from that idea now.
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From talking to someone I know at one of the LDS FHCs, Northumberland RO apparently approached Familysearch about this and not vice versa, but there doesn't seem to be much known about if and how the RO would generate an income from it so its anybody's guess what is actually happening.
Suffolk RO I would have thought really only have one of two choices, either go with one of the commercial companies or setup their own version of SEAX with all the initial cost/workload that that will entail. I get the impression they're not really interested in either so its anybody's guess what is going to happen. :-\
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Having realised (I think) that the current pay per view/download is not a good model, Suffolk are now thankfully contemplating some sort of subscription model.
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All the years they've been faffing about, the entire set of records could probably have been transcribed online by volunteers if they followed the model of Shakespeare's World, or the papers and correspondence relating to The Battle of Waterloo, both of which projects I've worked on. Nowadays there are masses of people like me, who are only too delighted to have access to these wonderful resources, in return for transcribing them, so that they can be made available online.
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Speaking for myself, it is the images that are my priority, not so much the transcriptions. Suffolk Family History Society have for many years been producing partial transcriptions of the registers anyway.
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Speaking for myself, it is the images that are my priority, not so much the transcriptions. Suffolk Family History Society have for many years been producing partial transcriptions of the registers anyway.
Same here. Essex has online transcriptions on SEAX which is very handy. Would be great if Suffolk at least had such a feature. I would not be too worried about transcriptions then if I at least knew the images were online and browsable.
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Here is the latest information that I have received concerning this project.
"Suffolk Record Office has been working to scope all the Suffolk Record Office (SRO) IT requirements; as there is a significant amount of digital and IT work for the building of The Hold and its ongoing Heritage Lottery Funded activity plan. Elements of The Hold building, and activity plan have dependencies on the Suffolk Record Office’s activities to implement a new reader ticket system, improve the website including e-commerce and GIS, and to implement a barcoding system.
SRO has met with Hertfordshire Archives and Local Studies who are also seeking to enhance their Orangeleaf website online capabilities. A high-level project plan of all of the record office’s digital/IT tasks has now been pulled together and we are in discussions with Corporate IT about how we can implement it. The parish register digitisation project is in this plan and is currently due to be picked up again in 2019. Other strands of work will however be implemented ahead of the parish registers e.g. the introduction of an electronic ticket/plastic ID card system."
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When Suffolk records do eventually come online I shall feel like all my Christmases have come at once. Several of my Essex ancestors originated in Suffolk prior to the mid 1700s, as well as my Suffolk born great grandfather.
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Hi just wondered if there are any updates on this at all?
Thank you.
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This has been going on for years and years and we never seem to get further forward. I'm sure lots of us would be delighted to pay to see the Suffolk Records but as yet they haven't been able to get their act together. (Grrr)
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Here is the latest update that I received on 30 May 2019.
"Work is progressing on some of the strands of work in the digital task list/plan. The development of the new hard plastic Reader’s Card, with photo ID has moved forward and it will look something like this.
The planning and development of the digital requirements for ‘The Hold’ have moved forward with the University of Suffolk including arrangements for; the computer room, cabling, Wi-Fi, security and access systems etc.
More investigative work and a small pilot has been done on barcoding archive boxes to inform planning for the move and any future development of an online ordering system.
Staff have made more catalogue descriptions of record office collections and digital images available through the suffolkarchives.co.uk website including 12 Beccles House of Correction/Gaol books (Ref A1122/1-12 = 3,257 double page images providing the names and other information on inmates).
There has, however been little progress on the parish registers project. The new Director of Growth, Highways and Infrastructure is aware of some of the issues involved in licensing. A meeting was held earlier this month with Chris Norton, Manager of FamilySearch Records Access & Services and Whitney Peterson from their Content Strategy Team to gain a better understanding of what they are working on with other record offices.
Best wishes
Paul West
County Councillor for Bixley Division
Cabinet Member, Suffolk County Council"
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What I don't understand is, how can Suffolk derive an income stream by collaborating with FamilySearch?
This subject of digitising Suffolk Parish Registers appears to be going nowhere fast.
In my opinion, the decision should be taken to collaborate with the experts, Ancestry or Findmypast, instead of trying to reinvent the wheel with a possibility of failure if the dismal income from the digitisation of wills is anything to go by.
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Familysearch digitize a lot of records, mostly what they already have on microfilm. The two commercial behemoths actually get some of their images from familysearch.
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Yes, many monochrome images digitised from old FamilySearch microfilms (not Suffolk) are also on Ancestry and Findmypast. Some are blurred and poor quality.
But this discussion is about a brand new scanning and digitising of original Suffolk parish registers in high quality colour.
The question is, would FamilySearch undertake that excercise, then Suffolk derive an income stream if FamilySearch share/licence those images to Ancestry or Findmypast? Is there any precedence for such an arrangement?
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Could anyone tell me what site is the best to find records from Suffolk? I'm speaking of mainly BMD records. Ancestry & FindMyPast don't have a wealth of records compared to other counties I've researched which is a great shame as a huge chunk of my family lived there for at least a couple hundred years at least.
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As you can see from this thread, lots of us are waiting for digital images of Suffolk parish registers to be made available online at a reasonable cost.
There is no best website for Suffolk research. The least worst is Findmypast who have some indexes of baptisms and marriages transcribed by Suffolk Family History Society. And Suffolk is well represented on the National Burial Index also available at Findmypast.
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How did Essex do theirs? They have their own website with the images and now ancestry have a name index on their website with a link to the Essex website. Did ancestry do the index as there never used to be one?
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Essex did theirs in house. Recently Essex have collaborated with Ancestry who created an index. That index is now on FamilySearch too.
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Thank you. Why don't Suffolk follow the same format? It just seems so odd.
Anyone know anything about Essex's predicted or actual income from their site and how long it will take them to make the money back on what they spent setting it up?
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Have you read all of the 115 posts in this topic? You may find that some of your thoughts already have answers and explanations.
Essex benefitted from the expertise and drive of a county archivist who moved to them from Medway where he set up CityArk and Medway Ancestors, together with some lottery funding I think. He completed a project that Essex had already started within a short timeframe.
Suffolk have so far not followed suit, and have done virtually nothing tangible that we can see. Dragging their heels - living in the tech dark ages.
Last I heard in July 2019, Suffolk are in discussions with FamilySearch to try and work out a way forward that is acceptable to both parties.
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Thanks very much. I did read them all a while ago but forgotten! So thank you for the summary. :)
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FindMyPast has good resources for Suffolk marriages and burials, such as the Boyds Marriage Index and NBI/Suffolk Burial Index. It is lacking with baptismal records though but can be great for marriages and burials.
My great grandad came from Suffolk and moved to Essex, and many of my Essex ancestors descended from Suffolk people. FreeREG Suffolk records is getting better.
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I've said it before, and I'll say it yet again: I do wish Suffolk would get its act together and get this matter sorted. If they can't afford to do it, then put it out to volunteer transcribers under projects such as Zooniverse or similar. I fear I'll be long dead before I get a chance to see the PRs for many of my ancestors.
However, as I think I might have posted previously, there are a few sites online where some dedicated and generous soul who has transcribed PRs for a particular parish has been good enough to also put them online. The ones I've used particularly are the PRs for Rattlesden, and also Woolpit. Another useful resource was Ray Long's Cosford Database which contained records of the parishes within the Cosford area of Suffolk. Sadly, when Ray died, the site was closed down, and has yet to reappear. However, it is still available via The Wayback Machine (web archive). Some of it is broken now, but quite a lot of the data is still accessible:
http://web.archive.org/web/20080611133922/http://www.cosford-database.co.uk/
Regards
GS
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Speaking for myself, it is not piecemeal indexes and transcriptions that I am after. I need access to high quality colour digital images of the original parish registers for the whole county at an affordable price.
The volunteer transcribers that you mention would need access to digital images to transcribe from. Something that is not possible right now because they do not exist. And such a project would be beyond the ability of just a few transcribers to complete the whole of the county within a few decades.
Conversely Ancestry and Findmypast have access to very large numbers of transcribers who by now are reasonably good at transcribing parish registers, at a fast pace, at an affordable price.
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Yes, obviously the records would need to be digitised for any project, regardless of who the transcribers were to be. I mentioned the Zooniverse because they have undertaken numerous transcription projects, the one I was most involved being Shakespeare's World which involved the transcription of thousands of documents from the time of Shakespeare. Another major project I was involved with was transcription of the digitised records from the Napoleonic Wars, which was undertaken through Heritage Helpers. So it is obvious that there are plenty of ways of undertaking these projects; but they all start with the fact that the original records need to be digitised before transcription can take place.
As we don't have the Suffolk PRs online, then we have to take second best, and find out what IS available as compared to what is not. I'm happy to use the Rattlesden PRs, for example, which are available now, rather than wait another ten or twenty years before Suffolk gets its act together.
I am fortunate that a lot of my Suffolk FT research was undertaken by my late uncle, who did his research in the days before the internet. He travelled to parishes, gained access to the parish records, and transcribed 'on the hoof' so to speak.
If you're not happy with what's available online and are only content with 'high quality colour digital images', I fear you will be waiting a very long time....
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Anyone know anything about Essex's predicted or actual income from their site and how long it will take them to make the money back on what they spent setting it up?
The prices to view Essex records have risen dramatically since I first used SEAX. A day's subscription used to be £5, then it went up to £10, and more recently £20. I may be wrong, but I suspect they have not made enough money to cover the cost of digitisation, and have raised prices to attempt to break even.
This may put off Suffolk from attempting a similar project to Essex.
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The annual subscription to SEAX/Essex Archives Online has not increased very much. I paid £85 in June 2019 for another year. As mentioned above, I think Essex may have received a lottery grant to partially fund their project. And Essex now receive a potentially significant new income stream from those that order images via the Ancestry indexes at £2.50 each.
Here is a quote by a Suffolk County Councillor from July 2018.
"I understand that the Essex model is different to the proposed Suffolk project as the Essex Record Office registers aren’t indexed at individual entry level and it still took 8 years to digitise the c600,000 images of Essex parish registers with dedicated staff and considerable support from their IT department. I understand they are now exploring options with larger commercial players to index their images and market them to a global audience, which is the approach SRO have now confirmed."
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John Pope's website has some Suffolk transcriptions. It has proved handy for my Dennington ancestors. Although nothing beats looking at originals. From 1754 onwards all marriages should have required 2 witnesses and sadly some transcriptions are from BT's or Phillimores which often (to save time when they were originally written out at the time) just give name and date of marriage and omit wits and status and even occupation. I am sure us serious researchers realise how fundamental witnesses are.
http://pope-genealogy.me.uk/suffolk/
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At the RootsTech London conference last week I spoke to the FamilySearch person in charge of liasing with UK county record offices to digitise their collections.
He said that FamilySearch digitise record office collections, including parish registers, for Ancestry and Findmypast for free. And work with them to index those collections. FamilySearch digitise more county record office collections than Ancestry and Findmypast are currently interested in.
He said that he is in discussions with Kate Chantry of Suffolk Record Office to digitise their collections for free, but no decisions have been made yet. SRO would be able to moneytise those images when they decide on which platform to use to provide access to those images online.
All in all I was encouraged by what I heard.
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At the RootsTech London conference last week I spoke to the FamilySearch person in charge of liasing with UK county record offices to digitise their collections.
He said that FamilySearch digitise record office collections, including parish registers, for Ancestry and Findmypast for free. And work with them to index those collections. FamilySearch digitise more county record office collections than Ancestry and Findmypast are currently interested in.
He said that he is in discussions with Kate Chantry of Suffolk Record Office to digitise their collections for free, but no decisions have been made yet. SRO would be able to moneytise those images when they decide on which platform to use to provide access to those images online.
All in all I was encouraged by what I heard.
Sounds hopeful, thanks.
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Just have to wait and see. Genealogy is getting like shopping, lots of it done online. Only shopping is delivered to your door if you buy online, but with genealogy it is nice to search online databases (I prefer scans of original registers) and not have the rickety old microfilm/fiche machine which has blobs on it, is always changing focus and what not, and film which has been wound on upside down or not rewound.
FreeREG Suffolk coverage is getting bigger, so a bonus.
I await Suffolk and Durham registers to be released in bulk online.
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I have this morning received this reply to my 4th request for an update on the progress of digitising Suffolk parish registers. My first three requests were ignored.
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Subject: Re: Digitising Suffolk parish registers
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2019 11:05:14 +0000
From: Paul West <Paul.West@suffolk.gov.uk>
To: Trevor Rix <xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Dear Trevor
First please accept my apologies for the delay.
I have spoken to officers and would advise that the Archives Team have not recently had the capacity to return to the project as we had hoped. They have recently completed a staff restructure to prepare for when The Hold becomes operational next year. The work associated with this has consumed resources.
We will not be in a position to make any further progress on the Parish Register Digitisation until after the move to The Hold has been completed in the middle of next year.
I realise this is disappointing news and hope we can get back on track next year.
Kind regards
Paul West
County Councillor for Bixley Division
Cabinet Member, Suffolk County Council
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Here is the latest update. Zero progress.
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From: Paul West (SCC Councillor) [mailto:Paul.West@suffolk.gov.uk]
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2020, 5:19 PM
To: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Digitising Suffolk parish registers
Dear Trevor
I’m afraid there has been no further progress on digitising the parish registers.
The service has been focussed on the Hold building and resources and now making sure it is all fitted out.
Kind regards
Paul West
County Councillor for Bixley Division
Cabinet Member, Suffolk County Council
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I really don't know why they don't put the project out to The Zooniverse or some such 'people-powered' research platform. That way we could all volunteer to do our bit and the records might be digitised in our lifetime. It is ridiculous that they hold these precious resources and are doing nothing to make them available digitally. I feel very cross and let down by Suffolk in this. Has anyone told them I wonder about the amazing projects from all over the world that are being digitised by volunteers on platforms such as Zooniverse or Heritage Helpers?
https://www.zooniverse.org/about
https://www.zooniverse.org/projects?discipline=history&page=1&status=live
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FamilySearch have offered to digitise Suffolk parish registers free of charge, but that offer has been declined for years.
FamilySearch would then no doubt index those images for free too.
If FamilySearch digitised the parish registers and made those images available to Ancestry or Findmypast, Ancestry or Findmypast would index those images in double quick time.
Has any calculation been made of what must be a substantial loss of income for Suffolk County Council by not providing worldwide online access to high quality colour images of Suffolk parish registers by subscription? Over the last decade that sum I estimate could be be six or seven figures by now.
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I agree with you absolutely. It's not as if there are no options other than them doing it in-house which clearly they are never going to have the capacity to handle. It infuriates me. I am fortunate in that someone many years ago digitised the Rattlesden PRs which I now have a copy of and the Woolpit PRs are also online. And of course we have the wonderful work of the late Ray Long in his 'Ray Long's Cosford Database' which is still available through The Wayback Machine albeit that some of it is now broken.
But as you say the amount of revenue Suffolk is losing by not addressing this issue must be staggering. Clearly they are never going to have the resources to do the digitisation themselves and the sooner they admit this and pass it on to people who can the better.
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It is frustrating that there seems to be zero progress in the digitisation, but saying that, I noticed today that FreeREG transcribers have added a few more Suffolk records in recent weeks such as Thwaite, Thorington, Blundeston, Chillesford and Redisham and 2 or 3 other parishes. I salute the transcribers for Suffolk FreeREG. Every little helps. This is probably the nearest we will get to more Suffolk records online seeing as the digitisation is just being delayed, and Covid means I have not been to Lowestoft RO since March this year. As I said on the "get it off your chest" my next aim is to look at Clare marriages 1754-1800 for Newman's and look at witnesses.
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It's such a shame there is this long delay in digitizing the Suffolk PRs, the Suffolk Records Office could be earning some useful funds.
There is a rumour that Ancestry used Indian transcribers to get the Ancestry Essex Parish Register Index (EPRI) up and running, I don't know how true that is but the way some names have been transcribed it could well be true, some very mangled names. If it is true then I hope they give the job to someone who has knowledge of British names and if Family Search will do the job for free, why not.
Having said that I am very grateful for having the online EPRI, it has helped me tremendously,mind you it has made me use my imagination to it's very limits. ::) ;D
So please Suffolk Records Office do something, I have only one Suffolk line so I don't have a great deal to gain myself but there must be hundreds, probably more like thousands, of people just dying to have the digital PRs etc online.
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Ancestry, and probably Findmypast, have indeed been using specialist transcription services overseas including India for a long time - maybe a decade or more.
It is well known that many transcriptions are inaccurate, but are much better than nothing. Apart from the volunteers that index FamilySearch images, there is no other method to index the huge quantities of parish registers that have been made available to us online in a reasonable timeframe.
When searching on Ancestry in most cases it is best to search specific datasets that may be identified by use of the Card Catalogue, rather than a global search. Select "Match all terms exactly", make good use of wildcards, and use the Keywords box when including places in searches. View search results by Category as well as the default by Records. Using those methods one does not become overwhelmed with results that are not relevant.
Regarding the indexing of Suffolk parish registers, the best set are those on Findmypast transcribed by Suffolk Family History Society, supplemented by those on FreeReg.
The loss of income to Suffolk Record Office/Suffolk County Council through not digitising parish registers must be significant by now, maybe 6 or 7 figures.
Come on Suffolk - catch up with the majority of the rest of England, Wales and Scotland.
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I have many, many Suffolk ancestors. About 40% of my Essex ancestors have ancestors before them who came from Suffolk. Seemed to be a huge influx of Suffokers to SE Essex such as Rochford, Foulness and Southend etc.
Even if Suffolk just digitised the records and did not index them then I would be happy, as I would immediately pay a sub to view the scans online, the way they do with SEAX. Any images on FamilySearch seem to be only accessible at FHS centre or to LDS members.
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Hi coombs,
I'm pretty fortunate that I only have so far two Suffolk lines, Robert Fewell and his wife Marie Boughtell, they married 20 April 1581 at Withersfield, Suffolk, I haven't been able to find Robert and Marie's birth or baptism simply because I have limited access to Suffolk PRs.
I had better luck with their son Giles who was baptised 12 Mar 1581 at Withersfield, he married Elizabetha Trueman in 1603 at Thaxted, in the Thaxted PRs his name was in Latin as Aegidis which I didn't associate with Giles until as a "just in case" I looked it up. Funnily enough I couldn't find any siblings of Giles.
I and others researching the Fewells in Essex were advised of the Suffolk connection by the son of the deceased Rev Mills, some of the Essex details were not quite correct but the Suffolk connection was.
I also have one line from Yorkshire, one from Norfolk and one from Hertfordshire, there have been a couple of times when I thought my research was heading into Cambridgeshire but then they did a U turn.
Noting your mention of new Suffolk records in FreeReg I'll try again for siblings of Giles and his parents baptisms, you never know your luck.
Btw I also have Cornwell/Cornwall about 1670, Kelvedon so far and Lawrence early 1700s in Coggeshall.
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I too would be happy to pay a subscription to view and download images of the original Suffolk parish registers like we can do for Essex on SEAX essexarchivesonline.co.uk .
Even better would be for the images to be on Ancestry or Findmypast to view/download via my existing subscriptions.
Or allow FamilySearch to digitise and make available online for free.
But all of the brief information coming from Suffolk Record Office/Suffolk County Council is that they want to charge on a pay per view/download basis like they do already for original Suffolk wills that are digitised. But each will costs £6 which is not affordable if you want several. Wills ordered from the GRO are only £1.50 each. Downloads including wills from the Public Record Office are free at the moment.
Imagine £6 for every Suffolk parish register page!!!
I have several times given them feedback that pay per view is not viable. Subscription models are the way to go. But so far they are not listening.
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A simple pay as you go basis and nothing else is not viable I agree. Say if you wanted to do a multiple page search for one parish, take Burgate near Thetford for example, and having to pay £6 to view one page when you have about 40 or so pages to rifle through. It is a rip off. If that is to be the case, I;d rather just wait for more Suffolk parishes to be transcribed in full on FreeREG or wait until the Suffolk record offices are open and arrange some more visits to Lowestoft RO.
The beauty of SEAX is when you have a sub, it means unlimited access to registers and wills.
FindMyPast does have Boyd's Marriage Index for Suffolk which can be very helpful as East Anglia is well covered.
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From: Paul West (SCC Councillor) <Paul.West@suffolk.gov.uk>
Sent: 16 November 2020 10:05
To: Richard Kemp (SCC Councillor) <richard.kemp@suffolk.gov.uk>
Subject: Re: Digitising Suffolk parish registers
Good Morning Richard
Apologies for the delay on this. Had been waiting for a detailed reply from officers.
Would now comment as follows:
The county situation regarding the digitisation of Suffolk’s Parish Registers is not as straight forward as would first appear. For the majority of English counties the main series of online images of pages in baptism, marriage and burial registers available for research through FamilySearch and commercial services such as Ancestry, FindMyPast and MyHeritage consist of poor quality black and white digital images made from microfilm originally produced by the Church of Jesus Christ and Latter-Day Saints. (FamilySearch is a not-for-profit organisation sponsored by the Church of Jesus Christ and Latter-day Saints.) This coverage of black and white digital images is often patchy and/or incomplete. In many instances researchers do not have access to the images only transcripts or indexes of them.
FamilySearch is keen to be involved in parish digitisation projects offering to do the work for free provided their worldwide members and family history libraries are given free access to the images. Many projects have involved a partnership between FamilySearch who do the digitisation for free and Ancestry, FindMyPast or MyHeritage who put the images up on their website for their subscribers to download, the record office service receiving a royalty fee based on the downloads/views. Unfortunately some early projects resulted in some record office services not obtaining as good a deal as was hoped.
More recent county archive service projects are endeavouring to improve the situation by the creation of new full colour high quality images that replace the black and white ones, are a complete set and come more up to date. This is what we wish to do in Suffolk. We see this as an extremely important source of income for the long-term sustainability of the Suffolk Archive Service, as well making the collections more accessible, and helping to preserve the originals, which we only have one opportunity to get right. Most income is made in the first few years of the project (whenever the start point of the project occurs). We have carried out our research and learnt from other record office services,and will be in a position to pick up this extensive project once the Suffolk Archive Service has completed its move into The Hold.
The priority in the last few years has been to deliver The Hold project countywide. I should also point out that several other county archive services that have had a major building project are also further behind e.g. Cambridgeshire Archives (Cambridgeshire and Huntingdonshire parish registers), Cumbria Archives (Cumberland and Westmorland parish registers), Herefordshire Archives and Records Centre, Worcestershire Archives and Archaeology Service. Some other counties with a poorer coverage of online images appear to be Bedfordshire, Berkshire, Buckinghamshire, Durham and Nottinghamshire. Our neighbouring county of Essex has images online but it took them about 15 years to do in-house, which is why it is important for Suffolk to negotiate a good deal with a commercial partner. The Yorkshire Digitisation Consortium comprising the East Riding Archives and Local Studies Service, the Borthwick Institute for Archives (University of York), the North Yorkshire County Record Office, Teesside Archives, Sheffield Archives and Local Studies, and Doncaster Archives and Local Studies has been working with FindMyPast to digitise their parish registers since 2013 and their project is just nearing completion indicating that other large counties have found it a challenge.
Hopefully we will be able to make progress in the next year as the delivery of The Hold project is almost complete.
Kind regards
Paul West
County Councillor for Bixley Division &
Cabinet Member for Ipswich, Communities and Waste
Suffolk County Council
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A glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel while we wait for digitisation of the records is, Suffolk FHS have made their transcription CD's downloadable, and I just bought the Suffolk Burial Index CD Volume 3 and the Loes and Orford deaneries Baptisms indexes. This means you can download them after buying them and get instant access and not have to wait for delivery.
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A glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel while we wait for digitisation of the records is, Suffolk FHS have made their transcription CD's downloadable, and I just bought the Suffolk Burial Index CD Volume 3 and the Loes and Orford deaneries Baptisms indexes. This means you can download them after buying them and get instant access and not have to wait for delivery.
Do these CDs have stuff on that isn't available so far on Ancestry and/or FindMyPast?
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A glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel while we wait for digitisation of the records is, Suffolk FHS have made their transcription CD's downloadable, and I just bought the Suffolk Burial Index CD Volume 3 and the Loes and Orford deaneries Baptisms indexes. This means you can download them after buying them and get instant access and not have to wait for delivery.
Do these CDs have stuff on that isn't available so far on Ancestry and/or FindMyPast?
Yes it can be good, the Suffolk burial Index Vol 3 contains all known burials for every parish in Suffolk from 1538 to 1900 (taking into account the occasional gaps in PR's and some parish records do not survive as far back as 1538 when PR's began). The Burial CD has helped me a great deal.
You'd have to check the Deaneries, as some Deaneries have baptisms and marriages as far back as 1650, and it will be info that is probably not yet available on Ancestry and FindMyPast or FamilySearch.
Bosmere, Clare, Stow, Blackbourn and Thedwastre and Colneis/Samford Deaneries for example have their known baptisms transcribed back to 1650. It can help immensely. It is all work in progress and they aim to have all known baptisms and marriages for Suffolk transcribed from Start to 1649 as well.
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This demonstrates what would be possible if Suffolk were to face reality.
https://anglo-celtic-connections.blogspot.com/2021/01/digitised-east-sussex-records-are.html
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Those Suffolk FHS downloadable CD's have helped immensely. I think virtually all 1754-1812 baptisms have been covered by the CD's, and several deaneries for 1650-1753 have been covered, such as Clare, Thingoe, Blackbourn, Fordham, Colneis/Samford, Stow/Thedwastre and Bosmere and Claydon. No pre 1650 baptisms have yet been published but all in good time, and some 1650-1753 deaneries are yet to be published such as Hartismere, Dunwich, Carlford and Loes and Sudbury Deaneries.
I commend the transcribers.
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Indeed, now with 20% discount for Suffolk FHS members. Or the majority are on Findmypast.
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/search/historical-records?region=united-kingdom&keywords=suffolk
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The Suffolk Baptism Index on FindMyPast is mainly 1754 onwards.
So the 1650-1753 CD's for baptisms will contain several parishes that are not yet available on FindMyPast or Ancestry. I have found several candidates for ancestors with the CD's and never found them on those 2 min sites.
For instance my ancestor Samuel Mayhew who wed Mary Peake in 1746 in Stonham Aspall. I found a Samuel Mayhew baptised in Creeting St Peter in 1724, and a Mary Peake baptised in the same village in 1725, and Creeting is just a mile away from Stonham Aspal. Before I bought the Stow and Thedwastre and Bosmere and Claydon CDs, I had never come across a likely baptism, there was one in Mickfield in 1726 but he died as a baby.
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From: Andrew Reid (SCC Councillor) [mailto:Andrew.Reid@suffolk.gov.uk]
Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2021, 7:32 PM
To: Richard Kemp (SCC Councillor)
Cc: trevor@trevorrix.co.uk
Subject: Digitising Suffolk parish registers
Dear Richard,
Yes, this is my portfolio and I have now had the opportunity to follow up on Mr Rix’s request for an update on the project to digitise Suffolk Parish Registers.
Since the last message Suffolk Archive Service has received expert legal advice from specialists in intellectual rights. Based on that advice it is apparent that in order to get the best outcome for both the service and Suffolk residents we need to be guided in any future procurement exercise by experts in this area of law and further resource will be needed from the Council’s procurement, legal and IT teams to support this major project.
Since March the priority for the service has been the movement of collections into The Hold from 4 sites around the county, the development and launch of 2 exhibitions, a new public outreach programme and much more. Suffolk County Council is contracted to deliver the various elements of The Hold countywide Suffolk Archives transformational programme by 30 September 2022, which is where Suffolk Archives Service resources are concentrated at present. Essentially, this programme is really a series of projects in their own right. Our IT resource is currently committed to helping Suffolk Archive Service improve its website, digitise maps and get new GIS map layers and more catalogue information online and to improving online ordering etc. We cannot unfortunately lever in more resources to do another IT project until these are completed.
Kind regards
Andrew Reid
Cabinet Member for Public Health, Public Protection and Communities
Suffolk County Council – Wilford Division
Tel: 07545 423799
Email: Andrew.reid@suffolk.gov.uk
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So, the can has been kicked down the road yet again.
"get the best outcome for both the service and Suffolk residents".
What they still don't realise is the millions of people of Suffolk descent worldwide who potentially wish to view and download high quality colour images of original Suffolk parish registers from their own homes 24/7 at a reasonable cost. The market is not just Suffolk residents.
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It seems that some are now appearing on The Genealogist website. At the end of July they added information from the following parishes:
Ashby, Belton, Blundeston with Flixton, Bradwell, Burgh Castle, Carlton Colville, Corton, Fritton, Gisleham, Gorleston with Southtown, Gunton, Herringfleet, Hopton, Kessingland, Kirkley St Peter & St John, Kirkley St Matthew, Knettishall, Lound, Lowestoft Christchurch, Lowestoft St Andrew, Lowestoft St John, Lowestoft St Margaret, Mutford, Oulton Broad, Oulton St Michael (Oldton), Pakefield, Rushmere, and Somerleyton
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Parish register images for those parishes in north-east Suffolk have been available on FamilySearch, and more recently on Ancestry, for years. Because that are included in the Norfolk images.
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It is disappointing when they release some new records for a county but you then find they are already available, or the parishes you want are not yet included.
But as I said, thanks to those Suffolk FHS downloadable CD's it has opened up doors to records for Suffolk not yet available on Ancestry, FindMyPast, FamilySearch or The Genealogist, or even FreeREG.
I still wish Suffolk Archives would do what Essex has done with SEAX and made their records viewable, if not indexed.
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Coming late to this chat, having spent the holiday period looking in vain for three Suffolk baptisms c1810 and a marriage.
Does anyone know if anywhere there is a detailed mapping, parish by parish, of which platform holds each record type (whether indexes or images) and for which exact periods? Usually I rely on the Family Search parish pages and their tabulations to find where best to go.
As others have commented, it's really confusing. For example Orford (one I'm focusing on) is for some reason missing in the otherwise long list of parish baptisms indexes on FindMyPast provided by the Suffolk Family History Society, here: https://www.findmypast.co.uk/articles/suffolk-baptism-index-place-list
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I can't answer all of your query but a suggestion as to why parishes may be missing from FindMyPast.
My interest in Hertfordshire registers which are on FindMyPast is the village of Pirton, which is not on FindMyPast.
They have their own parish website with their own parish transcriptions and appear not to have 'given permission' for their records to be on the FindMyPast website.
Could this be similar for Orford?
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Yes, thanks, that makes sense. And maybe different permissions granted or withheld depending on whether it was at parish level originally (eg) by the Family Search/LDS people or centrally held Bishops Transcripts and then later transcribers too.
The good people at the Suffolk Family History Society seem to have done a massive job indexing them too and they do list out the parishes, although still not 100% clear if gaps eg missing years. And then that is split across multiple deaneries, by different record types and in several time ranges, so the cost becomes prohibitive for what is a fishing expedition. Hence trying to pinpoint the search.
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As to why parish registers are not digitised.
Even though the records maybe with the local Cathedral. or local records office they remain the property of the church in the parish, therefore the church has the right to refuse their digitising and publishing.
How do I know this a friend is the treasurer of such a church. The Vicar and Churchwardens still refuse this
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Coming late to this chat, having spent the holiday period looking in vain for three Suffolk baptisms c1810 and a marriage.
Does anyone know if anywhere there is a detailed mapping, parish by parish, of which platform holds each record type (whether indexes or images) and for which exact periods? Usually I rely on the Family Search parish pages and their tabulations to find where best to go.
As others have commented, it's really confusing. For example Orford (one I'm focusing on) is for some reason missing in the otherwise long list of parish baptisms indexes on FindMyPast provided by the Suffolk Family History Society, here: https://www.findmypast.co.uk/articles/suffolk-baptism-index-place-list
I have ancestors from Orford, and the parish is included in the Suffolk Burial index 1538-1900 but is it only Orford baptisms you are after? If so then I also cannot seem to find any online index. I have Coggeshall, Beversham and Coe ancestors from there.
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but is it only Orford baptisms you are after? If so then I also cannot seem to find any online index.
Many thanks - yes, there are three Orford births from later censuses - Hannah Hunt 1808, John Hunt 1811 and Marian Hunt 1814 - which aren't showing up as baptisms, nor a linked marriage perhaps a few years before for presumed father John Hunt and possible mother Mary. (Of course that might be at her village, not Orford.) And as ever there might be some child deaths to extend the time frame.
That's the nub of it. I'm trying to help another family, arising from some local history elsewhere, so this is well off my known territory.
Trouble is, there are several John Hunts in the area at the time, our one probably ends up in Great Cornard, death in 1839 - but tying that back needs the baptisms and a marriage. Given the indexing and image gaps, any and all insights much appreciated!
I was tempted to get the SFHS publication(s) but without knowing the records are included, I'd just be wasting their money
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There is this Hannah at Hollesley, 5 miles from Orford (as the crow flies). Family Search
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J3DW-KPT
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alas this Hannah is 'spurious', and no siblings. Thankfully, attached on open access was the complete 200 year sweep of records (BMD) for Hollesley, which included a family of Hunts with a John, so that's carefully noted in case it comes into the picture. Much appreciated.
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A Likely Game Changer
At the recent online Really Useful Show there was a presentation by Atlantic Geomatics that explained how, over the next seven years, as an agreement with the Church Of England, in collaboration with My Heritage and FamilySearch ...
"we will photograph all the memorials, scan all the parish registers and create a digital index of the records in the registers – baptisms, marriages and burials."
https://www.atlanticgeomatics.co.uk/burial-ground-management-system
Yes, you read that right. If the appropriate permissions are forthcoming FamilySearch will be scanning all Church Of England parish registers in England, including Suffolk, and make those high quality colour digital images available online. And indexed transcriptions too. It is not clear yet whether the images will be available on My Heritage or FamilySearch or both. My guess would be only on My Heritage?
https://03e2bd24-5ae4-4147-8ac5-31f897fe3108.filesusr.com/ugd/2feb15_1809007f529b4b96aa7a231c080aeef3.pdf
As the project progresses it may be the case that non-conformist registers might be included too.
Here is an example.
https://kirkburton.burialgrounds.co.uk/mapmanagement/#/memorialmanagement/5fd3ef07-82a4-4b64-baef-f86921f844d9/grave_slab/o/persons/5bb7c0ca-0b88-4509-88c5-5f4005e362a5/eedc3013-4bc9-4b4b-b8ac-7e4db7979121?tab=0
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Hi CLP05893824,
Baptism records for Orford St.Bartholomew have been transcribed by the Suffolk FHS and are listed
in their CDs of Baptisms (1754 - 1812 & 1813 - 1900) for the deaneries of Loes, Orford).
I can see a baptisms for Hannah Hunt 13-10-1808 (Bn. 19-9) the Illeg d/o Hannah
also;
John Hunt 23-10-1810 (Bn. 12-11) s/o John & Jemima (late Ranaculs)
and
Hannah Hunt bapt. 25--12-1786 (Bn. 1-12-1784) d/o George & Hannah (late Howse)
Not sure if these help or not.
Alan
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Thank you for looking that up, Alan. A neat run with consistent parentage for Hannah, John and Marian would be too much to expect given they are not showing up elsewhere- though I live in hope(!).
However that one for John (mother Jemima) ties in with a marriage that I have found elsewhere - I shall follow that up.
The other explanation is that the parents were dissenters or chapel rather than church, in which case no baptisms here and very hard to link to any marriage.
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Pre-1754 baptisms for Orford must still be awaiting transcription onto those Suffolk FHS CD's.
My Orford ancestor was William Beversham, (c1560-1606) a mayor and portman who had trade deals with the Mayor of Newcastle Upon Tyne.
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A Likely Game Changer
At the recent online Really Useful Show there was a presentation by Atlantic Geomatics that explained how, over the next seven years, as an agreement with the Church Of England, in collaboration with My Heritage and FamilySearch ...
"we will photograph all the memorials, scan all the parish registers and create a digital index of the records in the registers – baptisms, marriages and burials."
https://www.atlanticgeomatics.co.uk/burial-ground-management-system
Yes, you read that right. If the appropriate permissions are forthcoming FamilySearch will be scanning all Church Of England parish registers in England, including Suffolk, and make those high quality colour digital images available online. And indexed transcriptions too. It is not clear yet whether the images will be available on My Heritage or FamilySearch or both. My guess would be only on My Heritage?
https://03e2bd24-5ae4-4147-8ac5-31f897fe3108.filesusr.com/ugd/2feb15_1809007f529b4b96aa7a231c080aeef3.pdf
As the project progresses it may be the case that non-conformist registers might be included too.
Here is an example.
https://kirkburton.burialgrounds.co.uk/mapmanagement/#/memorialmanagement/5fd3ef07-82a4-4b64-baef-f86921f844d9/grave_slab/o/persons/5bb7c0ca-0b88-4509-88c5-5f4005e362a5/eedc3013-4bc9-4b4b-b8ac-7e4db7979121?tab=0
Thanks for this. Very interesting.
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I think the pandemic has held up Suffolk FHS releasing any more new CD's as their latest release was a year ago. But so glad they are downloadable. And the Suffolk Archives website has digitised soem of their wills, probably more to come in the future.
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From: Bobby Bennett (SCC Councillor) [mailto:Bobby.Bennett@suffolk.gov.uk]
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2022, 10:52 AM
To: trevor@trevorrix.co.uk; Andrew Reid (SCC Councillor); Richard Kemp (SCC Councillor)
Subject: Digitising Suffolk parish registers
Dear Mr Rix
I would like to introduce myself as the new Cabinet Member for Equality and Communities. My portfolio has a wide remit including heritage and the Suffolk Archive Service. I received an initial briefing about the digitisation of the parish registers, amongst other areas of the work of the service when I took on the portfolio. The main priorities for the service continue to be to collect, preserve and make accessible Suffolk’s marvellous heritage; and concentrating on delivering the various elements of The Hold countywide transformational programme. This includes a wide range of events and activities to inspire, and engage new audiences and communities, with our collections in fresh, creative and innovative ways.
I assure you that the service is not blocking the digitisation of the parish registers and has tried to continue with its digitisation programme despite extensive demands across the service and dealing with the impact of Covid. The new website referred to by my colleague Councillor Andrew Reid went live on 8 December 2021 and includes a new exhibitions interface, upgraded map connections to a Georeferencer application with live tile layers, a facility to pin images etc, and a guest level shop. Digital catalogues, exhibitions and learning resources continue to be added to the website. Preparatory conservation work and the digitisation of the smaller pre-1700 maps and enclosure maps has started. A specialist company is booked to digitise the larger maps. Suffolk Archive Service Managers have met with the Diocesan Registrar, Council Procurement and Legal Officers to restart the project to digitise the parish registers. Discussions have been held with a specialist law firm to prepare a brief and engagement questions for the procurement of a company to digitise the parish registers.
No calculation of the loss of income from the delay in pursuing this project has been made. You will appreciate that any potential loss of income is dependent upon a number of variables and I would rather that officers focussed their time on agreeing the contract and commencing. In fact, it could be argued that by not rushing into an agreement and learning from other earlier adopter record office services Suffolk will be able to reduce the risks and deliver greater long-term financial benefits.
I hope this helps to explain the current situation. I will let you know when we have reached an agreement with a preferred supplier and have a firmer idea of the timeframe for the digital copies of the registers being available.
Kind regards
Bobby Bennett
Cabinet Member for Equality and Communities
County Councillor for Clare Division
07813551959
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Thanks for posting this Trevor. At last the cogs may be turning,
Steve
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Suffolk Archives Update 30 May 2022
https://www.suffolkarchives.co.uk/suffolk-archives-update
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FindMyPast have released 1813-1900 Suffolk baptisms. A step up the ladder for Suffolk researchers, lets hope they release more 1538-1812 baptisms soon.
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That's good news. But bear in mind that they are transcriptions - not images.
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FindMyPast have released 1813-1900 Suffolk baptisms. A step up the ladder for Suffolk researchers, lets hope they release more 1538-1812 baptisms soon.
Thanks for the update. Does this include all parishes in Suffolk?
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I think they are the complete 1813-1900 Anglican transcriptions for all Suffolk parishes, not sure about non conformists.
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I think they are the complete 1813-1900 Anglican transcriptions for all Suffolk parishes, not sure about non conformists.
Thanks very much. That is pretty good then!
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www.findmypast.co.uk/articles/suffolk-baptism-index-place-list
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I have found several of mine now. One ancestor usually a labourer was a gamekeeper in 1851 according to his daughter's baptism.
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This interesting article "Future Of Suffolk Archives In Bury St Edmunds Hangs In The Balance" was published recently by The Bury Society https://www.burysociety.com/review. I am wondering what is the purpose of the digitisation?
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This subject has continued on Rootschat for over eight years now without any kind of successful outcome, and so, living as I do 400miles away from Ipswich, I would like to join in the common whinge.
My Suffolk interest is in two of the Brady families that resided in Orford and nearby through the XVII century, and very possibly before. I have been fortunate in having had as a skeleton guide a family history written in 1840 by a family member. He had clearly tried to do much parish register research but was frustrated by the apparent lack of diligence by some of the incumbents in performing the tasks of registration with which they were entrusted. On the other hand, he wrote with the advantage of hearsay from older family members, something that is not available to us today, but that is not evidence of the standard now expected.
For some reason there seems to be a particular dearth in the on-line earlier BMD records of Orford, Iken and Sudbourne, and, to a slightly lesser extent, Chillesford and Aldeburgh. Even FreeReg seem not to have been able to put their hands on some of these records yet…if, in fact, they exist! I am trying to see if Charles Brady who died in 1757 purportedly nearly ninety years old might be a son of any of the John Bradys that lived in the area in the late 1600s. To go to Ipswich to spend a couple of weeks trawling over unfamiliar resource, or buying loads of disks, just to see whether any of the records that do exist are relevant seems to me an unreasonable expense.
Does anyone know if the Orford records for this earlier period still exist, who keeps them now and are they copied anywhere else?
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According to familysearch.org/mapp Orford parish registers commence in 1538.
As your surname appears to be Brady and you are researching Brady, I am wondering whether you have taken a Y-DNA test at Family Tree DNA? The Brady group/project there has 180 members. Their summer sale ends today.
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Hi BradyCMH,
Does anyone know if the Orford records for this earlier period still exist, who keeps them now and are they copied anywhere else
The Suffolk Family History Society have transcribed a lot of the suffolk parish records onto a series of CDs, alternatively they also offer a search facility. Their address is; https://suffolkfhs.co.uk/index.php
Orford is one that is available on disc.
Alan
PS; disclaimer I'm not associated with the society just a customer.
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Thanks Trevor. I've done a y-111 marker test, but there are very few matches. Genetic distance to any possible matches takes me much further back than there appears to be any written evidence for. I'm not prepared to splash out on the big y-700 until there are a few more other punters to try to match to. I'm in their Brady project but most of the members will be wearing the seamrog on March 17, which is most unlikely to be relevant to my family for sure.
Thanks also to ribbo39. I'll try to find the SFH search facility to try to see what's included.
It looks as though we just might be related?: Revans, prob of Norfolk?=m=Alldis of Woodbridge>>Barbara Alldis 1767=m=William Hollinshed Brady 1768>> our lot.
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I have Orford ancestors but further back. Names are Beversham, Coe and Coggeshall.
Those new searchable Norwich Consistory Court Marriage licenses on FindMyPast are good as there are many Suffolk marriages due to Suffolk being in the Diocese of Norwich. I have found a number of ancestors and ancestor siblings marriage bonds.
One day we will get our Suffolk Ancestry registers 1538-1900.
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We are not connected to any of those as far as I am aware.
Thanks for the Norwich Diocese tip, Coombs.
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Also SFHS has just made a new baptism publication, the Carlford and Walford Deanery baptisms 1650-1753. Excellent news. This covers Woodbridge, Wickham Market, Pettistree, Grundisburgh and many more parishes in the area.
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https://bidstats.uk/tenders/2023/W11/794624077
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Well that's good news, now we just have to patient for a while longer.
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Agreed - but are Ancestry Holdings (Malta) really based in Milan, or was the map too small?
Steve
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"Ancestry Global Holdings Limited with registered address Vision Exchange Building, Suite
23, Level 2, Territorials Street, Zone 1, Central Business District, Birkirkara CBD 1070 , Malta"
See https://www.archivists.org.au/documents/item/1859
It does look like Ancestry have won the contract which is fantastic news.
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I am wondering how this news sits with the huge Church Of England project to "scan and transcribe all the parish registers"?
"It will mean parish registers are backed up safely and securely and protect the originals from loss and deterioration"
https://agintl.org/more-information
I understand that My Heritage are funding and conducting that digitisation.
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See https://www.contractsfinder.service.gov.uk/Notice/35492e2d-7bb6-49d1-92bd-d17c54dc3381
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I am wondering how this news sits with the huge Church Of England project to "scan and transcribe all the parish registers"?
"It will mean parish registers are backed up safely and securely and protect the originals from loss and deterioration"
https://agintl.org/more-information
I understand that My Heritage are funding and conducting that digitisation.
Interesting hadn't come across that particular project. It was purely by chance I picked up the Suffolk contract award, I was actually trying to confirm if Tyne & Wear Archives' agreement with Ancestry would include the parish registers following the recent release of non-conformist records from the Archives on the site. However, was pleased to finally see Suffolk get their act together since it's got to be almost 9 years since they originally muted the idea of doing it themselves.
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Will be good when they finally do this.
In the meantime the Suffolk FHS CD transcriptions have been very helpful.
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The latest Lost Cousins newsletter says
"Last month Ancestry finally won the right to digitise Suffolk parish registers and other records, and according to my contact at Suffolk County Council they should be online by 2025. Ancestry have exclusive rights until 2029".
https://www.lostcousins.com/newsletters2/apr23news.htm
This is another confirmation of the good news. I wonder what will be included in the "other records"?
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Also Ancestry seem to have finished digitising Cambridgeshire records as well, which will be good due to my Cambridgeshire ancestry.
Several of my Suffolk lot lived near the Suffolk/Cambs border.
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Scanning of the Cambridgeshire and Huntingdonshire parish registers is now complete. Hopefully not too long to wait now until these records become available on Ancestry.
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Good news. Onwards and upwards for online researchers who may live hundreds or thousands of miles from such record offices.
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Apparently the Suffolk records aim to be online by early 2025 according to the Suffolk FHS. Still over a year away but looks like a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel.
I plan yet another trip to Lowestoft RO very soon to look at marriage witnesses for my ancestor's first marriage in 1806 and her 2nd marriage in 1809 in the parish.
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Improving news...Bring it on!
I'm interested in your proposed visit to Lowestoft RO, Registry Office I presume. What records are they likely to have prior to the formation of GRO in 1837? Are there similar facilities elsewhere in Suffolk?
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Improving news...Bring it on!
I'm interested in your proposed visit to Lowestoft RO, Registry Office I presume. What records are they likely to have prior to the formation of GRO in 1837? Are there similar facilities elsewhere in Suffolk?
Hi no it is not a registry office but the Lowestoft branch of the Suffolk records office, it contains microfiche/film of Suffolk parish registers going back to the start, or at least when the surviving PR's start as not all survive from 1538 onwards. It also has transcripts and fiche/film of wills, quarter sessions etc.
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Suffolk Free Press 29 June 2023
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More details here:
https://www.suffolkarchives.co.uk/ancestry-appointed/
And a FAQ here:
https://www.suffolkarchives.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Ancestry-FAQ-Final.pdf
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Will be good when they are finally online. Half my Essex ancestors were from Suffolk originally.
And it will be a bonus to others who have Suffolk roots who live hundreds or thousands of miles from Suffolk.
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Suffolk Free Press 29 June 2023
Just catching up again here and a bit late to the party, but I thought Suffolk Council wanted to do their own thing. Now I see that they have gone with ancestry. Not that I mind that, but feels like they have gone all around the houses to get here! Roll on 2025!
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Hartismere 1650-1753 baptisms are now available on CD at Suffolk FHS. A couple of the parishes registers such as Occold only have registers surviving from 1681 and Redlingfield 1739-1753 but most go back to 1650. Although Redgrave starts at 1654 on the registers. As we know not all registers survive as far back as 1538.
I found possible parents of my long standing brickwall Rachel Jessop born c1650. A Nathaniel and Rachel Jessop were having children 1657-1664 in Redgrave. My Rachel wed in Eye in 1670 so was likely born before 1654. If Nathaniel and Rachel wed in Redgrave and had children there before 1654 then it is probably the end of the line for that line unless I can find a will of they wed outside Redgrave.