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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Gloucestershire => Topic started by: ranger50 on Thursday 19 June 14 05:44 BST (UK)
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I am searching for any information concerning my Great Grandfather Charles Harris. He was born c1862 Gloucestershire. However, he gives different information as to exactly where he was born in Gloucestershire in the 1891,1901 and 1911 census records which makes things difficult to try and find out where exactly he was born in Gloucestershire. I cannot seems to find him in any other census records. He married Elizabeth Austin 25/6/1888 Sunninghill Berkshire. He had 4 known sons. Bernard George Charles Harris born Highworth Wiltshire 1892-1966, Rawley Harris born Highworth 1894-1914 (WW1), Ernest Frederick Harris born Highworth Wiltshire 1895-1977 and Reginald Kenneth Harris born Highworth 1900-1983. Charles Harris died Swindon 1945. On Charles Harris marriage certificate he names his father as Joseph Harris. If anybody knows this family please contact me.
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Hello and Welcome to Rootchat :)
Does the marriage cert of Charles and Elizabeth give his father's occupation or any witnesses with the Harris surname?
Kay
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Hi I was not expecting a reply so soon so thank you. The marriage certificate just states that Joseph Harris was a Labourer. The two witnesses are Mark Keen and MaryAnn Austin. I do not know who Mark Keen is. MaryAnn Austin is the sister of Elizabeth Austin.
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Thanks - I see your problem. The occupation doesn't help much. Our ancesters don't make it easy :)
Interesting that in one census Charles lists his birth place as Boddington near Cheltenham. This may be a complete red herring but just in case - this is a site that lists memorial inscriptions for the St Mary Magdalene's Church at Boddington, Gloucestershire. It includes a memorial to an Elizabeth HARRIS who died on 20 Sept 1874 age 40 http://places.wishful-thinking.org.uk/GLS/Boddington/MIs.html
Kay
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Hi Kay thank you for the information I had a look at the website. Charles Harris is bit of a mystery man I have done a lot of searching on Ancestry.com etc and I only have one lead at this moment. I get the impression that he did not know a lot about his own family. His parents may have died when he was young. I am hoping by joining this site that some members of his family might see my message and get in contact with me.
Kind Regards
Luke
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It does sound as though he didn't live long in his birthplace and was therefore unsure of the exact location.
Good Luck Kay
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I think this thread may be better moving to the Gloucestershire board?
There are some Glos. experts there who go to the archives often, and might be able to find the birth?
Boddington is only 4 miles from Cheltenham, so is looking likely as a birthplace?
In my experience, the further away from home one travels, the less exact is the placename!
In do it myself! I grew up in Portishead, Somerset (12 miles from Bristol), but when I am away I invariably state Bristol as my home town?! ;D
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Hi. thank you for your comments. I am not sure how to post this message on the Gloucestershire board I am not that good at IT but I will try. Yes Charles Harris always said he was born in Gloucestershire. 1891 census states Chellenham (Which is Cheltenham). 1901 census he states Cirencester and 1911 census he states Bodington which is just outside of Cheltenham. Researching him has made me study the geography of Gloucestershire and I think I know more about Gloucestershire now than my own state of South Australia. It should be interesting what Charles Harris states in the 1921 census, but I will have to wait some time before I can find out that information. The ironic part about Charles Harris is my father (as a young boy, still living) remembers Charles Harris during the war, but as a young boy my father never asked his grandfather any questions. Nevertheless the search goes on.
Kind Regards
Luke
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Hi. thank you for your comments. I am not sure how to post this message on the Gloucestershire board I am not that good at IT but I will try.
This thread has already been moved! ;D
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In all the census years you have Charles is working as a coachman. In 1881 there is a Charles Harris age 1862 born Bristol, Gloucestershire living in Kensington with a coachman as below and in area predominantly populated by coachmen. Whilst this is yet another birthplace it could be worth considering?
George Reid 31 Coachman - Dom Servant b Scotland
Honora Reid 27 b Middlesex St Margarets London
Katharine M. J. Reid 2
Charles Harris 19 Visitor Dom Servant b Bristol
Charles Bateman 22 Visitor Dom Servant b Bristol
Kay
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Hi Kay. Thank you for the information concerning Charles Harris in the 1881 census. Yes it could be a possibility. I have also found two other 1881 census records which could relate to Charles Harris. One of them a person called Charles Harris is born 1860 Cheltenham and he is listed as a Bill Inspector (whatever that is). He is living with a person who is called Jonah Ball who is a Groom. So did Charles learn the trade from him?
The other 1881 census record lists a person called Charles Harris who is born 1862 at Chalford. Chalford is near Stroud which is in between Cheltenham and Cirencester. Charles is living at Cirencester, but as a Militia Man which is not the regular army. Interestingly, this 1881 census records links the 1901 Census record for Charles Harris. The problem with the 1881 census record is that all three does not link Charles with any member of his family.
I have found an 1871 census record which is interesting. A person called Charles Harris is living with his mother called Sarah Harris. He was born 1866 (which is 4 years older than I like), but I am pretty sure that Sarah Harris claims she is unmarried. The same record states that Charles is born at Stroud which is very close to Chalford in between Cheltenham and Cirencester. Thus does this 1871 census record links in with the 1881 census record for Charles Harris when he is listed as a Militia Man?
The other thing is that I cannot find any other census record for Sarah Harris which fits her details in the 1871 census record. Also on the next page of the census record there is a neighbour who is a groom.
Thus I have to ask the question was Charles illegitimate and had no other siblings? Did his mother died when he was young and hence he could not really remember where he was born except somewhere around the Cheltenham and Cirencester area?
Kind Regards
Luke
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Stroud, and Chalford are not between Cirencester & Cheltenham, rather they form three points of a triangle.
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Hi Luke
Sorry can't help with the search for Charles Harris but you may be interested in these entries from the Highworth register...
10 Apr 1892 Chr Bernard George Charles Harris s/o Charles and Elizabeth of Highworth
12 Nov 1893 Chr Rawley Harris s/o Charles and Elizabeth of Highworth
18 Dec 1895 Chr Ernest Frederick Harris s/o of Charles and Elizabeth of Highworth
17 Aug 1900 Chr (Bn 28 Jul) Reginald Kenneth Harris s/o Charles and Elizabeth of Highworth
Charles' occupation is Groom except for Bernard's record which has been left blank.
Regards
Coco
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Good morning: Yes Stroud and Chalford do form three points of a triangle. I had a look at a map again of Gloucestershire last night so thank you.
Thanks Coco: The information was helpful, because I only had the month and year of the 4 Harris boys birth not the full date so it was good to receive this information. In the 1911 census Elizabeth Harris nee Austin claims she had 5 children so there is one child missing which I have never found I suspect that the child died very young.
Kind Regards
Luke
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Hi,
I have personally checked the baptism records (PRs) for St Mary, Magdalene, Boddington, St John the Baptist, Cirencester & St Laurence, Stroud, 1860-1864 and there is NO record of a baptism for Charles HARRIS c.1862. The ONLY HARRIS baptism I found is as follows:-
8th May 1862, Elizabeth of Martha HARRIS, single woman.
The Christ Church, Chalford PRs are NOT available on microfiche, so I have pre-ordered the PR for a lookup next week (Ref: P73 IN 1/1) and will get back to you.
Victor
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Hi,
I forgot to mention that Highworth PRs are not available at Glos Archives (GA).
Victor
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Highworth is in Wiltshire, the Records will be at the Wiltshire and Swindon History Centre at Chippenham, http://www.wshc.eu/visiting-the-centre/opening-times.html
Also, Swindon Library have a microfiche copy of them.
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Thank you Victor and youngtug for your information concerning Charles Harris. Sometimes I have found to find somebody it is a process of eliminating other possibilities. As mentioned, in a previous reply, I think Charles Harris may have been illegitimate, or his perents died when he was young, so he was not sure where he was born except somewhere between Cheltenham and Cirencester.
Kind Regards
Luke
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Hi ranger50,
Source: Glos Archives (GA) - P73 IN 1/1, Christ Church, Chalford, Baptisms:-
14/04/1861, Adelaide Louisa HARRIS, dau of William & Sarah, a Labourer of Chalford
14/04/1861, Emily Jane HARRIS, dau of William & Sarah, a Labourer of Chalford
NO sign of Charles HARRIS
Victor
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Good morning Victor. Thank you for your information. The search goes on.
Kind Regards from South Australia
Luke