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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Midlothian => Topic started by: jamesharry1921 on Saturday 21 June 14 08:32 BST (UK)
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hello again my next search is for a marraige between john rigby and janet mcleod around 1790 to 1816 in midlothian on the son,s death certificate it states father john rigby a soldier deceased mother janet mcleod deceased also his name on the death certificate say,s john mcleod rigby died 1861 age 50 husband of jean walkingshaw they married in 1831 i have most of their records my brickwall is john rigby and janet mcleod rigby name could be different spelling then
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Previous thread, connected but not directly related
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=690405.0
Note that you will not get a marriage certificate for John Rigby and Janet McLeod as they were married before the introduction of statutory civil registration in 1855. The best you can hope for is a listing in the parish register.
Just to get this straight in my mind. You have the marriage and death records of John McLeod Rigby, who was born about 1810/11. Do you have his baptism record? I presume that you have him in the 1841, 1851 and 1861 census?
You are now looking for his parents, John Rigby and Janet McLeod. Why do you think they might have been married after John McLeod Rigby was born?
Have you checked Scotland's People including the Roman Catholic marriages? Have you checked the International Genealogical Index at www.familysearch.org?
If they are not there then the possibilities are
- that the marriage was never recorded, or, if it was, the record has not survived. This is the most likely explanation.
- that they were married somewhere other than Scotland, if John was serving in the Army at the time.
- that the record, if it exists, is in the registers of one of the dissenting churches or of the Episcopal Church of Scotland. In which case, you are looking for a needle in a bale of straw rather than in a haystack. Some of the surviving registers of the dissenting churches are in the National Archives of Scotland, but there are very few going back as early as that. (The Free Church isn't an option as it did not come into existence until 1843.) The surviving Episcopal registers are still with the churches or diocesan archives so unless you know where they were married you will struggle to find any record.
You would probably get on better if you could find John's Army service record. Try the National Archives http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ or Find My Past www.findmypast.co.uk
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Have you managed to find any further siblings for John born c. 1811? A possible George Rigby showing as born in Midlothian in 1841:
George Rigby 30 painter J(likely journeyman) b. Midlothian
Sarah Rigby 30 dressmaker b. Scotland
Address: Congatehead, Edinburgh
John and Jean had a son George didn't they?
Can't easily see George and Sarah in 1851, but these possible entries for George:
1861 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VB4K-6JP - shows as a lodger, still a painter by trade and born in Edinburgh. Note spelling shows as Rugby rather than Rigby for this index.
1871 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VB59-KGT - at a different lodging house. Showing as a coach painter.
If he is a brother to John, this George's death entry might show more (my only reservation is that if he is single and lodging for a long time, people may not have known much about him). On the positive side, maybe family or a close friend reported his death ;)
Monica
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I have been researching Walkinshaws from Newbattle Midlothian for a long time I have your John
Rigbie married to Jean Walkinshaw and their seven children in my tree .
Unfortunately I have never been able to find any more information on John's parents except their
names from his death cert.
suzilad
ADDED George Rigby died in 1871 on death cert he was a coach painter but single -- his cousin registered his death parents John mother Margaret Chisholm
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There is an entry showing on the Scotlands People Old Parish Burial/Death Registers:
John Rigby, 8 July 1822, St Cuthberts Edinburgh.
A couple of other Edinburgh entries for Rigby:
Unnamed Rigby - 27 Feb 1832
Elizabeth Rigby (other name George Rigby) 4 Oct 1804 in Leith South
These are not death certificates with full details but entries on Parish Registers. Some areas are better than others in terms of what details were recorded. Some are no more than a basic entry, some have a little more detail. Edinburgh's OPRs are not bad often, but big but, you never know until you look what info was recorded.
Monica
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hello again i dont have john mcleod rigby,s birth or baptism record i am only going on the info on his death certificate because he married jean walkingshaw before the parent,s were recorded on john mcleod rigby death certificate the informant was his son george.
i think he had a brother george but not the coach painter i have seen his death certificate and its not john rigby and janet mcleod i have been told that sometimes a wedding took place in the home so think my chances of a marraige certificate are going to be slim carol
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Hi Carol
At that time, most marriages took place at home or sometimes at the Manse. Records before the start of official registration in Scotland, from 1855, are from the Old Parish Registers. Many have been lost or destroyed over the years. Good to also note that only about a third of events were ever registered locally in the registers in the first place. See also, www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/Content/Help/index.aspx?r=554&627
This is great short informative read. www.gla.ac.uk/schools/socialpolitical/research/economicsocialhistory/historymedicine/scottishwayofbirthanddeath/marriage/ Although it concentrates on the period post the start of official registration from 1855, there is background that is helpful.
The death cert you mention that you have seen for the other George Rigby born in Edinburgh. What were his parents' names showing on the death reg? Just curious about him...and the fact that your John and Jean also had a son George. Very often Scottish naming pattern had some bearing on the use of names for a couple's children.
Monica
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Hi Monica and Carol,
Perhaps this might help
John and Jane Walkinshaw were married in Jan 1831 Newbattle Midlothian her father was Francis mother Jane.
Their children were as follows.
Francis b July 1832, John, George, Jean, Janet , John presume the other had died and Margaret
Hope this helps.
suzilad
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ADDED George Rigby died in 1871 on death cert he was a coach painter but single -- his cousin registered his death parents John mother Margaret Chisholm
Thank you Suzilad :)
Any occupation given for George's father John? A possibility that a mistake may have been made on reporting of his parents' names (in respect of mother's name) by cousin?
Monica
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Sorry Monica thought I'd added that he was a Compositor .
suzilad
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I was hoping that some chink of light would come from George's details, but not so far, other than father's name was also John. One last thing, suzilad ::), what was the name of the cousin who reported the death of George (guessing this was in Edinbugh)?
Monica
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Apologies Monica it was his nephew William Robertson his address was 20 India Place
George was found dead in Victoria Lodging House .
There was an RCE which said degeneration of the heart.
suzilad
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Thank you for that too :) Sorry for drib and drabs!
This must be cousin William in 1871:
William Robertson 40 coach painter b. Edinburgh
Margaret Robertson 42 wife b. Fifeshire
Address: 20 India Place, Edinburgh
Think this William lived with his family from 1841-61 in Scotland Street Edinburgh. Father Thomas, a master house painter and mother Margaret. This Margaret's maiden name might have been Keith. So, don't get the cousin reference really on George Rigby's death reg. :-\ Maybe as we have seen, term cousin was used loosely...
I am stuck now on following through further that George and whether there was any connection to John and Janet Rigby/McLeod.
Monica
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there is a link with the robertsons because ann/anne robertson married francis rigby son of john mcleod and jean walkingshaw, francis was my 3rd great grandfather carol a lot of people have her down as ann/anne robinson but i can assure you it is robertson carol
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sorry francis is my 2nd greatgrandfather i have been looking through my timeline on scotlanspeople found a lot of deaths for john rigby but i think a bit to early 1816 and 1817, 1817 death was a pensioner in the poorhouse death due to fraility and the death in 1846 was the 1 year old son of john and jean (walkingshaw). on georges death certificate it was the same as above single and a coach painter same parents as the post above . carol
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just found a death certificate for a jean mcintosh maiden name rigbie age 71 in dundee lists her fathers name as john rigby a soldier no mothers name. carol
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also found a death for mrs rigby 1832 age 58 buried in edinburgh says on the certificate buried from looks like from rif anyone know what that mean,s please .carol
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also found a death in glasgow 1830 of a widow rigby age 45
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also found a death for mrs rigby 1832 age 58 buried in edinburgh says on the certificate buried from looks like from rif anyone know what that mean,s please .carol
That looks promising :)
Can you add a snippet from the image so that people can comment further to try and help? If you need help with adding a small section of the image, let me know and I can help with this.
Monica
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just found a death certificate for a jean mcintosh maiden name rigbie age 71 in dundee lists her fathers name as john rigby a soldier no mothers name. carol
What were the details for this? What was her approx. birth year/death year? Husband's name and occupation if showing on the cert? Who reported the death?
Monica
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just sent a message to scotlanspeople about the very bad image on jean rigbie died 1857 age 71 in dundee i think i can make out the husbands occupation as surveyor .carol
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hello monica i havent bought the cert from scotlandspeople only paid 5 credits would i be allowed to put it on here .carol
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just saved a snippet monica but how do i put it on here please .carol
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just joined forces war records and i have
john rigby
gunner
royal foot artillery
sandhams company
awarded the waterloo medal. they had no other john rigbie
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Sorry Carol. Saw your message earlier but wasn't able to sit and respond (life mad for me at the moment). Anyhow...
A great place to search online for very old enlistment papers is the National Archives (I think Forfarian mentioned earlier on in the thread). I checked then and saw at least 3 possible entries so was hoping at the time we would find more along the way to be more definitive. Not sure we will though, find more at this point regarding regiment etc.
The particular link I use for TNA searches is http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/search/advanced-search. A few further possibilities here www.rootschat.com/links/01688/ (link shrunk from TNA).
Carol, I will send you a personal message (PM) it will have my personal email. You can send me the image you have viewed and I can attach for you here if it helps.
As help note to attaching images in general, see here www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=130922.0
Monica :)
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Sorry Carol. Saw your message earlier but wasn't able to sit and respond (life mad for me at the moment). Anyhow...
A great place to search online for very old enlistment papers is the National Archives (I think Forfarian mentioned earlier on in the thread). I checked then and saw at least 3 possible entries so was hoping at the time we would find more along the way to be more definitive. Not sure we will though, find more at this point regarding regiment etc.
The particular link I use for TNA searches is http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/search/advanced-search. A few further possibilities here www.rootschat.com/links/01688/ (link shrunk from TNA).
Carol, I will send you a personal message (PM) it will have my personal email. You can send me the images you have viewed and I can attach for you here, as sections/snippets, if it helps.
As help note to attaching images in general, see here www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=130922.0
Monica :)
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sorry i have,nt got back to you will do so tonight thank you carol. monical have sent you a pm but dont know if you had it because i put monica instead of monical
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hi monical just read jean mcintosh nee rigbie death certificate again lists her husband as a sawyer she died of apoplexy on 16/5/1857 at 81 blackscroft dundee informer was her son john mcintosh not present she was 71 years of age lists her father as john rigbie a soldier, no husbands first name. carol
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Just adding some snippets to see if anyone can help Carol further with deciphering or info. This first one is from the 1832 OPR Death/Burial register for a Mrs Rigby, aged 58. The following words show as: Buried from R. J. F. ? Going by the previous entries, maybe place of death for Mrs Rigby?
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The second snippet is from a possible sister to John McLeod Rigby, a Jean Rigby who married a McIntosh. Her death reg in 1857 in Dundee, at the age of 71 years, unfortunately does not name husband but just shows her as the 'widow of a sawyer'. This is in the style of the entries on the page, so nothing unusual on the page. A son John was the informant to her death. No further details for him.
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Looks like Jean's husband was also John. From 1851:
John Mcintosh 71 sawyer b. Newtyle, Forfarshire
Jean Rigby 65 b. Edinburgh
Anne Mcintosh 30 daughter b. Dundee
Elizabeth Boorie 11 grandchild b. Dundee
Address: 91 Blacks Croft, Dundee
In 1841, there is this listing:
John McIntosh 60 wood cutter
Jean McIntosh 55
Anne McIntosh 20
James McIntosh 16 Chain Maker
Margaret McIntosh 14
Elizabeth Mcintosh 1
Thomas Mitchell 6
Address: Blacks Croft, Dundee
Monica
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There is a Jean McIntosh at 1 Smalls Lane, Dundee on the 1851 census. Her age seems to tie in with the Jean McIntosh who died aged 71.
Census 1851
Jean McIntosh aged 64 Pauper Winder
Isabella Young daughter aged 20 Mill Worker
It is on both An ...try and S...lands Pe...le.
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I saw that too Doddsie :) Thought though that the other 1841/51 entries fitted with the address for Jean Rigby/McIntosh at the time of her death in 1857 (Black Croft) and unnamed husband's occupation of a sawyer.
What do you think?
Monica
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Monica,
There is an 1841 census for Blackcroft, Dundee.
John McIntosh 60 Wood Cutter
Jean 55
Ann 20
James 16
Mgt 14
Elizabeth 1
Thomas Mitchell 6
P.S. I'm not familiar with this thread so please forgive if I am duplicating what has already been discovered.
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Yep, that is the one I thought followed back too, Doddsie. Don't worry about duplicating, the more eyes checking the same info the better!
We keep on trying to find clues to John Rigby and Janet Mcleod (from son John McLeod Rigby's DC) but struggle a lot :-\
What we have as entries do not seem to feature really so far on the OPRs (wondering what religion the family might have been too?).
Found some possible entries for Jean Rigby and John McIntosh....problem with her surname. Morphs away from straight mistranscription into a different surname for Rigby. Haven't made any headway either way but will add details below. There are some Ancestry family trees on this family of John McIntosh and Jean Rigby, which then also link to further trees for same children to John McIntosh and Jean, but her surname different from Rigby. As showing on the OPRs:
Marriage in 1805 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTVY-T22
Elizabeth 1810 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XYNB-W4D
Marjory 1812 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XYNB-VX8
Euphemia 1814 - 30 Oct 1814 in Dundee (from fam. trees)
John 1817 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XYN1-7BY - informant to death of Jean in 1857?
David 1822 - 17 Jun 1822 in Dundee (from fam. trees)
Margaret 1827 - 17 Jun 1827 in Dundee (from fam. trees)
Ann 1829 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XYNB-251 - wrong age though :-\ for 1851
Not sure if I am off on a tangent though...along with other researchers who have made the same links to this possible surname for Jane :-\
Monica
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i dont know if this will help because it was just a rumour in the family that the first john rigbie/rigby came from ireland . carol