RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: majm on Sunday 22 June 14 22:56 BST (UK)
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Hi Everyone,
Today is the first day of the "new" online features ;D ;D ;D
Just looking for some tips re the "new" and "improved" online search option at NSW BDM..... I can see there's an option "PDF availability" but errrr ..... it is not yet working for me :) I have used known ancestors in all the decades since 1787, and I am still to figure out how the new search options function.....
Likely I am having senior moments, or possibly there are still some teething problems ..... but I cannot find any of my 18th century or my 19th century ancestors UNLESS I give the exact year ::) ::) ::) ..... or I cite the NSW BDM reference no. (Excuse me please, but if I know the NSW BDM reference no., then surely I could be holding the document or an official transcription already so why would I be using the search options ???? )
Fingers crossed there's RChatters who can figure out WOT'S WOT with the new search options and post some tips please.
https://lifelink.bdm.nsw.gov.au/lifelink/familyhistory/search?8
Cheers, JM
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:)
An older rellie (retired BDM officer) has phoned me to say "Search options include Date of Event Options" take the YES option ;D and you can drill down to the exact date, similar to Qld BDM
::) ::) ::) Older rellie must have phoned his Old Boys network ::)
More tips please
Cheers, JM
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JM
I do not see any new online features at all ::).
The home page looks exactly as it did yesterday including the red writing about what is and is not available and that the normal services will resume on (today)
What am I doing wrong?
Sue
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https://lifelink.bdm.nsw.gov.au/lifelink/familyhistory/search?74 .... it is hidden away somewhat .... you need to click the heading Search the Family History records which brings you to
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/bdm_fh.html
Cheers, JM
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So in the instances where I know the registration number, but perhaps I want to confirm the details, so say I want to verify some other researcher's post but I do NOT know the exact spelling of the surname/s of the person/s of interest as recorded on the BDM document ....
Well, there's still NO option for variations in the spelling of the surname .... and although there's the option to enter the registration number,/ year errrr .... IF I only know the registration number and year, then I cannot proceed as the system keeps asking me to respond with additional information
"Either Family Name or First Given Name/Other Given Name(s) field must be entered"
and "Please enter a valid date"
I have NOT yet checked the Early Church Records ::)
Cheers, JM
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http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=533908.0 They promised so much when I was speaking to their Senior Executive Unit Manager back then :)
Cheers, JM
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Early Church Records ..... ummmmm..... I am lost for polite words .... these are no longer given their Volume references, so the "V" is no longer a way of noticing the difference between the Early Church Records and the formal compulsory civil registrations.... so
Early Church Records date from when those events were recorded in their respective Parish Registers in the decades BEFORE the NSW BDM was instituted (it commenced in 1856 !). So NSW BDM's reference numbers suggest (at least to me) that their employees will not longer EVER know (from looking at the reference nos) that the Early Church Records ARE NOT civil registrations.
I know that many reading this thread will perhaps mutter "JM is being PEDANTIC yet again" .... And, yes I am. And I make NO apology for this.
There is a huge difference between a registration of a civil "birth" and an entry in the NSW Chaplains' registers of " baptisms". The civil birth registration held by NSW BDM would have been recorded in the NSW BDM's registers at the time of that event. The Early Church Records were not handed over to the NSW BDM at the time they were recorded as the NSW BDM did not exist at that point in time. So, the Early Church Records that were eventually handed over to NSW BDM came into the NSW BDM long after they were recorded. There's plenty of well researched references to show that the Early Church Records of say baptisms that the NSW BDM holds do not always show the actual date of birth of the person being baptised. They may have been baptised as an adult, or the NSW Chaplains may have recorded a summary transmitted record from the original parish register which was not available to NSW BDM when the index was initially prepared in the 1930s.
The upgrade seems to have expunged some details ....
For example, the family name heading no longer has "Aborigine" or "Aboriginal", which of course were the words used by the clergy when recording baptisms in the pre-civil registration era (so from say 1787 to say 1856, often in the Macquarie era 1810-1821). The previous online version included these. Those Church Records that formed the basis of the index do NOT have surnames for ANY of the persons of interest, regardless of their ethnicity. So the surname was UNSTATED for the actual person being baptised. The surname of the mother was stated, and if the mother gave the clergy the name of the child's father, then that too was stated (and in NSW during the Macquarie era, this was recorded regardless of whether the parents were lawfully married to each other or not). So in that sense, the NSW BDM heading "family name" is a 20th Century expression. So instead of INCLUDING all the available information from the previous online indexes, they have EXCLUDED some, perhaps on some "politically correct" grounds.
At the moment I am trying to duplicate "Age" as a result (sometimes it WAS findable under "mother's given name")
On a positive note, I can confirm that the exact date for my parents' marriage is findable and ::) matches the certificate info I hold ::) (To find it on the online search thingy this morning) I included the reference number, (including the year) and the surnames of both my parents
Cheers, JM
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Well JM,
You are leaps and bounds ahead of me in making the thing work at all. :P
I will need to go back to university I think.
In the meantime, the NSW bdm administrators will need advising of the tragic shortfalls of the new system which you have noted to date.
The issue of the church record details is of major concern.
We must, when searching, be quickly able to discern a civil registration from a Church record because they are not the same thing at all and the lack of differentiation will only be a source of great confusion.
Sue
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At the moment I am trying to duplicate "Age" as a result (sometimes it WAS findable under "mother's given name")
So, using 'SMITH' , a popular "Family Name" I can see that "Age" still comes up under "Mother's Given Name(s) and "Died at" still comes up under "Father's Given Name(s) when the index does not have the 'actual' given names for Mother or Father of the deceased.
Cheers, JM
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:) Sue, I have my (retired BDM) rellies on the phone (on speaker phone) "barking" search options at me at the moment.... And Great Aunt has set up her 'card table' with various 'certs' for me to look up for them all.
Our earliest NSW ancestors arrived 1790s, and most of our lines were well established before the gold rushes .... so the ECRs are so very significant .....
Cheers, JM
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The upgrade seems to have expunged some details ....
For example, the family name heading no longer has "Aborigine" or "Aboriginal", which of course were the words used by the clergy when recording baptisms in the pre-civil registration era (so from say 1787 to say 1856, often in the Macquarie era 1810-1821). The previous online version included these. Those Church Records that formed the basis of the index do NOT have surnames for ANY of the persons of interest, regardless of their ethnicity. So the surname was UNSTATED for the actual person being baptised. The surname of the mother was stated, and if the mother gave the clergy the name of the child's father, then that too was stated (and in NSW during the Macquarie era, this was recorded regardless of whether the parents were lawfully married to each other or not).
I can see that the online index is including the word "Aborigine" in the given name of the record of the baptism when the family name has been recorded as "unknown" I can find TWO likely baptisms (there were many more !) and these two date from 1846. John UNKNOWN and Joseph UNKNOWN.
Cheers, JM
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Now I am in trouble from my rellies because NSW BDM has gone down ::)
What did they expect (yes, I leave it open to interpretation as to "they" .... choose ... my rellies or NSW BDM)
Capacity .... rather than maintenance ::)
Cheers, JM
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Now I am in trouble from my rellies because NSW BDM has gone down ::)
What did they expect (yes, I leave it open to interpretation as to "they" .... choose ... my rellies or NSW BDM)
It is back at the moment. So I am back handling some “barking” orders from my rellies
DISTRICT as a heading seems to have become “redundant”
This heading no longer has any entries in it when I search for CIVIL registrations for births from 1856 to 1913 for any of my Grandparents or their siblings…. (For the Early Church Records, ie up to 1856 the “District” was not displayed online for 'births' or 'deaths' even in the earlier online version, but was in CODE for marriages pre 1856 era) District was a very useful heading for family history buffs.
This heading no longer has any entries in it when I search for CIVIL registrations for deaths from 1856 to 1983 for any of my Grandparents or their siblings. (District was a very useful heading, particularly if you were searching for any of the more popular names …. John SMITH is a good example of where reading from the online index as to a possible DISTRICT where the death was registered can be most helpful to reduce the number of possible certificates needed to advance back a generation).
Cheers, JM
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Right, that does it …. My rellies can make the phone calls to NSW BDM to sort this one out. (For my non RChat rellies reading this thread …. It’s the 1897 marriages for the parents of Uncle Bert’s and for the parents of Auntie Dottie’s )
Civil Registration MARRIAGES …. Two lads who were brothers married. The two lasses they married were sisters. And there was a DOUBLE marriage ceremony. So, surnames for the two lads are identical, but there’s different given names. And of course, surnames for the two lasses are identical, but different given names.... And the marriage reference numbers from the paper copy of NSW BDM registrations are consecutive… and the DISTRICT used to be displayed.... So Previously the search option would find BOTH just by using the lads’ surname and the lasses’ surname and the district, and limiting the search to the year.
NOW, this new search option requires the given name ….. so I need to conduct TWO separate searches to find the two marriages. WHAT IF I was not aware of the double ceremony? What if I did not know the formal order of the given names for either of the lads or of the lasses ...
Fingers crossed I will get used to these differences, and fingers crossed some of the younger set who are taking up family history will not be put off by these possible difficulties.
Cheers, JM (logging off, as I do have a real TO DO list to get through today .... full of nought to do with family history searchings )
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Some Good News .....
( * ) works the way it used to back when NSW BDM first came online, and before they removed it in 2011 ;D
You know, it works as a 'wild card' option
(the rellies ::) made a phone call to Sydney )
Cheers, JM
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Doesn't work for me JM..... :(
Cando
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I'm still getting the 'old' BDM search page...what am I doing wrong ??? ???
Joy
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Hi
Why Why Why when something worked and was easy to use did they change it. Must have had input from someone who is not researching their family tree ( watch the ordering of certificates drop) I wonder if the certificates number will disappear off the index when ordered online like QLD BDMs did.
Muss
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Hate to say it BUT may have to resort to using that subscription based website's bdm's...errors and all >:(
Not very cheerful
Cando.
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;D
My retired rellie, former BDM officer, retired in the 1980s after the initial EDP installation, and the consolidation of all the local registers to HQ .....
He is up in arms .... I think he will may well get one of those electronic petitions going. I might add he was born 1917, so as he is reading this, GET SOMEONE ELSE to do it for you, I am not going to do that ......
Cando Re The Asterisk.... Yes, it will work, but you need to already know some of the "right" info in the other required boxes too ..... eg family name can be * but you also need to then enter given name ....
Joy, Re the website ..... Try this link http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/bdm_fh.html then EVEN THOUGH "they" don't mention it, you need to click on the words "Start searching the Family History records" which then brings up the search engine (ummm..... of course, only if all my rellies have STOPPED fiddling with their puters and that search engine option themselves, cause in my opinion they are overloading the NSW BDM system !)
Agree Muss, WHY WHY WHY .... Their website currently STILL displays the "interesting certificates" .... so for example, Mary REIBY and her 1855 burial was formerly referenced as V18551632 43A 1855 Now it is simply 1632/1855. So, how does anyone NEW to family history know that that "certificate" does NOT have ANY value to family history buffs, as it is for a BURIAL and is an Early Church Record. ..... The newbie orders the dollar dollar dollar certificate rather than the cheaper (but still dollar dollar) official transcription, and in both instances learns NOTHING to advance their family history tree.
Here's two pdfs that will give some info. (Mary REIBY's interesting cert marked SAMPLE, and some info that used to be on the NSW BDM website, released 2006) Notice the BURIAL, like all Early Church Records is NOT in their WATERMARK document form. The History pdf is 18 pages long. EDIT to note, TOO BIG A FILE. that one will not load. I hear you all say PHEW (3.8 Megs)
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Yes, the Ancestry's option is better than the NSW BDM index now, particularly for 19thC ... I do so wish I still had my 16 bit floppy discs and errr .... a machine to use them with.
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http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/bdm_hst.html
History of the Registry ;D ;D ;D
Interesting Certificates
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/bdm_fh/bdm_int.html
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Oh, phone calls can matter and get things done promptly …..
I am reliably informed ... a phone call sorted and there has been a change made and ABORIGINAL is again displaying as though a family name on some ECR's ... so for example It is now listed between ABBOTT and AIKEN if the given name is John and the enquiry is BIRTHS between 1 Jan 1827 and 31 Dec 1840….
Well, someone must know the Big Cheese
Cheers, JM (Shhhhhhhhhh I posted this on the 'wrong' thread ..... ::) )
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Just searched on a death for a rellie in 1962. Nothing came up.
I then put in the range 01/01/1960 to 31/12/1965 and guess what came up? The actual entry.
Jon
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Yes, the Ancestry's option is better than the NSW BDM index now, particularly for 19thC ... I do so wish I still had my 16 bit floppy discs and errr .... a machine to use them with.
These are very cumbersome to use. I can say that firsthand. ;)
However, it is beginning to look a preferable solution.
Sue
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WARNING WARNING WARNING
Two reference numbers exactly the same as each other, but for two different people, YES, it is possible at the NSW BDM’s new online index. LIKELY to be stacks more of TWO reference numbers exactly the same as each other, but for two different people …. Likely to be loads and loads of stacks more actually… (Early Church Records :) )
For example 1/1840 births
TERNOUTH, Clara J, with father as Thomas and Mother as Susan
And
JONES, Louisa, with father as Thomas and Mother as Elizabeth.
See the attached
I selected Births (but could just as well have selected deaths or marriages)
I used Registration Number 1 /1840 (but it could be valid for any low number or likely year)
I used the asterisk for the Family Name, and so on, each Name option I entered an Asterisk (as though I was looking for the FIRST entry recorded by NSW BDM in a particular year)
I selected YES for the Date of Event Range
And then entered 1840 for both the FROM and TO option.
And, I left the “District” option blank….
So, those of us RChatters who use the NSW BDM online index to help others …. They have messed up their own search engine and it is now worse than it was yesterday, and worse than it was in 2011 and even worse than it was in 2008. If you are NSW based, then perhaps an email to your State Member…. http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/LA member for Wakehurst is listed there as the Minister for Justice, and the member for Penrith is the Minister for Police (NSW BDM is part of Police and Justice …. according to their website)
Cheers, JM
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Yes, the Ancestry's option is better than the NSW BDM index now, particularly for 19thC ... I do so wish I still had my 16 bit floppy discs and errr .... a machine to use them with.
These are very cumbersome to use. I can say that firsthand. ;)
However, it is beginning to look a preferable solution.
Sue
Yes, and I damaged some of my floppies and OH upgraded to 32bit and then 64 bit and there's no SLOT to pop them in .....
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Joy, Re the website ..... Try this link http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/bdm_fh.html then EVEN THOUGH "they" don't mention it, you need to click on the words "Start searching the Family History records" which then brings up the search engine
Ok well I'm sorry JM, but I cannot get past the page which comes up, as you say above, and where I am invited to complete details for a search. What am I supposed to do to initiate the process"
The word search on the top right disappears as soon as I put in any information whatever so there is nothing to click to commence the search.
Meantime the old search screen has not been taken down and is working the way it always did. Thus-
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/cgi-bin/Index/IndexingOrder.cgi/search?event=marriages
I'm back to DOS for now.
Sue
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My problem is now solved ;D I was using my toolbar s/cut (which still opens as 'old'
search) went in through IE & lo & behold new search came up...YUK what a mess ???
Joy
Added Thanks JM...red post
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https://lifelink.bdm.nsw.gov.au/lifelink/familyhistory/search?0 for Sue .....
Yep Joy, definitely a mess ....
Add
BEFORE DOS ....
There used to be a reader with a light box and fiche at the NSW SRO and there was film at NSW SL and at other locations too .....
Cheers, JM
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FOUR births with reference no. 1/1820 of which two apparently are for same person so three different baptisms
Bring back the ink bottle and the quill....
Cheers, JM
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Ok well I'm sorry JM, but I cannot get past the page which comes up, as you say above, and where I am invited to complete details for a search. What am I supposed to do to initiate the process"
Are you a MAC .... I don't know how to for them ;D But here's their pdf that they have uploaded today....
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/resources/Family-History-Help-Guide-23Jun14.pdf
Sue, I use two screens for my real work, and my OH has given up on me doing any real work today .... Shhhhhhhhhh..... he is just as addicted to fh as me, but doesn't often admit it.... Anyways, the search button is in an obscure spot ..... scroll right across to far right and then to bottom of your screen, you may be somewhere near it.
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I dont like the new upgrade. Can it be called a upgrade ::)
Suppose like all other changes made to different sites we will eventually get used to it once they iron any problems out :-\
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Will this snip help?
Cheers, JM
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The "SEARCH" button is not seen on my screen either until I changed to 75% screen - and then you can see the button ::)
This "upgrade" reminds me of the same thing they tried to do on FindMyPast
Surely someone these days knows how to write programming specs and actually test the darned thing ??? ::)
We actually pay people to write garbage like this :-X
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I can view births and deaths okay.....but NOW will they have the correct reference number?
My problem are marriages......the partner's name/s are required.....isn't that often the reason for the SEARCH :'(
Essie
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Thank goodness I have finished my own family history in NSW and have a sub to ancestry...and as many of you are aware, I am not a fan of their databases but at least easier to use than the present NSW bdm. :-X :-X
I suggest we all notify NSW BDM of our concerns
Cando
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Found the search button thanks to the advice of all.
Profoundly unimpressed overall.
How best to let the administration know
BTW, does anyone have access to any other Australian forums which might have contributors with viewpoints on the subject?
Sue
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Oh my goodness, what a cumbersome interface :(
The old one was so much easier to to just pop in various names and dates and bring up lists. I'm sure on the old one I could search marriages just by the groom's surname - it's not letting me do it with the new search engine. :(
Wah!
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Meantime the old search screen has not been taken down and is working the way it always did. Thus-
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/cgi-bin/Index/IndexingOrder.cgi/search?event=marriages
I'm bookmarking this and hoping they don't take it down :P
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I can view births and deaths okay.....but NOW will they have the correct reference number?
My problem are marriages......the partner's name/s are required.....isn't that often the reason for the SEARCH :'(
Essie
I second this gripe.
This is mad. The reason I am searching for marriages of "Joe Smith" is because I don't know who he married. But I can't seem to do a marriage search for "smith" in a particular time period ....
Just wondering - if I put * in bride name boxes it might work .... Off to check
Cocksie
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Yep - for marriages
"Smith" groom surname
* in all bride boxes (EDIT * in any bride box)
Stipulate time period
And search will work ......
Kind of
::)
Cocksie
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Yep - for marriages
"Smith" groom surname
* in all bride boxes
Stipulate time period
And search will work ......
Kind of
::)
Cocksie
ugh :-[
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Why are there no district names coming up?
Entire column seems to be perpetually blank in every trial search I do.
That's not good
Cocksie
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* in all bride boxes (EDIT * in any bride box)
I had not tried the asterisk before, and did a trial just now by entering a groom's surname. It came up with a list of marriages for me. Thank you Cocksie.
Essie
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HOPELESS!! Obviously the person who designed the engine never flew the plane? ::)
Neil
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Well you see err they dont realise the plane is meant to fly with paying customers on board and then to land and then to again fly with more paying customers.....
Apparently you cannot currently spend your own money and buy certified copy of your own NSW birth cert unless you already know their ref no..... As per rellie needing current cert for passport application ...
HOPELESS!! Obviously the person who designed the engine never flew the plane? ::)
Neil
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hi
So this may effect tourism, state revenue, marriages, probate, pensions, divorces or anything else that requires ID.
Also Family history for medical reasons, do the powers that be understand that researching your family history is saving lives ie in the case of my 2 daughters.
Muss
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I'm using the old search page and is that to be removed?
Cando
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...I phoned my rellie and YES ... he had already asked via the Old Boys Network and it was to be removed after a month or so BUT there is so much off the record chatter so they are asking for it to be restored. This is all part of the inter state agreement for getting "same" across all the eight databases .... So as districts are NOT displaying on line for other states so OUT they go for NSW .... My rellie has TOLD someone THERE that the Early Church Records predate the separation of TAS VIC QLD fron NSW and got himself into a huge argument .... The other person claiming Vic records start earlier than NSW .... and that Vic and Qld gave records TO NSWBDM not vice versa ..... Rellie says he thinks that there is no one left who knows WHY an original record is significantly better than a spreadsheet entry.
Cheers JM
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So as districts are NOT displaying on line for other states so OUT they go for NSW .... JM
Well, Qld does give lttle bit of a clue in the C preceding the reg number.
Also the surname of mother is given for birth and death in QLD.
The way NSW is going there is no means of identification of identity whatever :o
Is it time for a petition?
Sue
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The other person claiming Vic records start earlier than NSW
This person may be assuming that V stands for Victoria.
Therefore, as the dates on these events are earlier then QED---
"Victorian records started earlier" :-[ :-[
Sue
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Agh Sue that is gold star explanation .... On phone offering it now
He was lost for words
We could have started an urban myth ...... Vic cometh before NS Wales ....
The original stated purpose of NSW BDM was to be a register. The first civil Register was actually the NSW Supreme Court Registrar's register dating from 1834 or earlier perhaps but the 1834 version is extant and stored at NSW SRO at Kingswood.
Cheers JM
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My thoughts for what they're worth....add the mother's maiden name to the birth records on the old database.....along with the places of death for the later death registrations...and add Vic's system of purchasing records online. Would be the best database in the country. However that is far too simple isn't it :P
Bet they won't get the SA or Tas governments to place any data online.
Cando
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Yes, that would be the best set of indexed headings ever ;D and I am quite sure that would increase the number of purchases of certificates (and official transcriptions) made in any year ;D .... It would also lessen the efforts of the employees trying to search through the registrations when the customer has NOT provided the reference number....
Popping some historical info here
Back when NSW BDM commenced (1 March 1856)
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/12977223 SMH 21 Feb 1856
"As every inhabitant of the colony may at some time or other be interested in knowing the precise time of some birth or death, and as a complete system of registration will prevent much litigation in future years, and otherwise protect individual rights of property; besides throwing light on many social questions as to duration of life, to the increase of statistical science, and the general advantage of the inhabitants of New South Wales; it is of the utmost importance that they should be well acquainted with the nature and provisions of the Act of Legislative Council, 19 Vict., No. 34, under which the new Registration system has been formed. Any additional information necessary will be promptly furnished on application."
http://investigator.records.nsw.gov.au/Entity.aspx?Path=%5CAgency%5C24
http://ozcase.library.qut.edu.au/qhlc/documents/qr_stat_registration_1855_19_Vic_No34.pdf
Cheers, JM
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Hi
The online index is an index to what the BDM's sell. so are they are making it harder to sell certificates or not sell certificates at all, if you are researching BROWN, SMITH or JONES you would just not bother.
Muss
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Exactly so Muss.... and I am sure there's many of us with the popular John and Mary who were surnamed SMITH a/o BROWN a/o JONES ancestors ......
I also agree with Cando
Hate to say it BUT may have to resort to using that subscription based website's bdm's...errors and all >:(
Looks like the next long weekend break I will be sorting through my certs/transcriptions etc and checking to make sure I have already sent most of them to Gordon http://ausbdm.ucoz.org/ to spread the sharing around.... :)
Cheers, JM
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I apologise to RChat for some duplication of links from earlier in this thread, but I am hope these two links will remain far more useful for far longer than the new search engine.
Searching NSW BDM index for Marriages
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/cgi-bin/Index/IndexingOrder.cgi/search?event=marriages
Searching NSW BDM index for Births, Deaths
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/cgi-bin/Index/IndexingOrder.cgi/search?SessionID=46262022&event=births
Early Church Codes
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/bdm_fh/bdm_crh.html
Some further info (In general terms, the NSW State Records Office .... formerly the Archives Office, has the physical care of the originals)
NSW SRO
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/guides-and-finding-aids/short-guide-2/short-guide-2
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/guides-and-finding-aids/short-guide-2/baptisms/baptisms
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/guides-and-finding-aids/short-guide-2/marriages/marriages
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/guides-and-finding-aids/short-guide-2/deaths/deaths
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/guides-and-finding-aids/short-guide-4/short-guide-4
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/guides-and-finding-aids/short-guide-4/short-guide-4#pre-1856-registers-and
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/guides-and-finding-aids/short-guide-4/short-guide-4#listing-of-registers-by
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/guides-and-finding-aids/short-guide-4/short-guide-4#arrangement-of-registers
Volumes 1 to 123
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/guides-and-finding-aids/short-guide-4/volumes-1-123-1/volumes-1-123 (Bap = Baptism, Bur = Burial, Mar = Marriage) Notice that each volume starts at its own LINE 1, so there’s many “1/18xx” and many “2/18xx” and many “n/18xx” where n is a real number an xx is any year in the 19th Century where the record is from the NSW BDM Early Church Records collection.
HISTORICAL BACKGROUND OF EARLY RECORDS….
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/guides-and-finding-aids/short-guide-4/short-guide-4#historical-background-of-early
http://investigator.records.nsw.gov.au/Entity.aspx?Path=\Activity\37 Birth, Death and Marriage Registration Start 3 Dec 1855
http://investigator.records.nsw.gov.au/Entity.aspx?Path=\Series\4558 Norfolk Island list of bdm 1870 – 1871
http://investigator.records.nsw.gov.au/Entity.aspx?Path=\Series\12937 1787 - 1951 Registers of Baptisms, Burials, Marriages
Vols. 1- 44: Church of England
Vols. 45- 72: Baptisms - All other denominations
Vols. 73-101: Marriages - All other denominations
Vols.102-120: Burials - All other denominations
Vols.121-123: Supplementary Registers - Baptisms, Burials and Marriages, 1827-1901
http://investigator.records.nsw.gov.au/Entity.aspx?Path=\Series\12944 March 1856 – Aug 1925 Births in 17 volumes
http://investigator.records.nsw.gov.au/Entity.aspx?Path=\Series\12945 Aug 1856 – 1927 births in 4 volumes
http://investigator.records.nsw.gov.au/Entity.aspx?Path=\Agency\18
“In 1996 the agency listed its prime function as the registration of " births,deaths and marriages, changes of name, adoptions and legitimation occurring in NSW. It undertakes the maintenance and safekeeping of the records relating to this function, and offers the following services: the issue of certificates relating to births, deaths andmarriages, the collection and provision of selected statistical data to approved organisations and government agencies, the performance of civil marriage ceremonies and administration of matters related to the Commonwealth Marriage Act of 1961”
Cheers,
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JM you are great...whatever would we do without you 8) ;D
Joy
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JM
Thank you for all the links. I have copied and pasted into a word document for myself and saved onto my computer in case I never find this again (or forget where it all was), or forget how to get into rootschat or some other memory crisis.
Thank you
cocksie
PS I am really really super glad that I started my family history research with the old NSW BDM index - I would be completely stumped if I started now - with no ability to shortlist suspects based on registration place.
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Can we all cross our fingers please ;D ;D
from the following link
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/bdm_fh.html
"Family History
Some current issues
Our wildcard (*) feature is back, and you can use this in a mandatory field. However, we have some issues we are currently working on, including:
District information is missing
PDF Availability
Incorrect formatting across laptops and other mobile devices, and
Sluggish system performance and crashing.
We apologise for any inconvenience caused."
Cheers, JM
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Oh dear! Can it really be true that one can only search marriages if one has more than one name? i.e. given or family name of spouse. Please tell me I'm mistaken!
By the way I have been using the Queensland BMD site of late and love the "one click" system of having a digital image emailed immediately. Beats waiting for a few weeks and certainly encourages me to spend money! franh1946
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Oh dear! Can it really be true that one can only search marriages if one has more than one name? i.e. given or family name of spouse. Please tell me I'm mistaken!
Use the Asterisk for the other name ;D ( * ) works the way it used to back when NSW BDM first came online, and before they removed it in 2011 ;D
Cheers, JM :)
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Phew, thanks JM who should be declared a National Living Treasure! Fran
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Phew, thanks JM who should be declared a National Living Treasure! Fran
I second that ;D ;D
Cando
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Do I need to get a BIGGER SCREEN? ???
If I put in incorrect data (date) on a marriage search from - to.... The indignaton of the puter is such that after it warns me......the search button disappears off the bottom of my screen and cannot be scrolled down to.... where'd it go :P ::)
Seems that it doesn't like me :-* :'(
:'( :'( :'(neil
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No, Neil, there's definitely a problem with the configuration of the screen. In order to see the search button I have to reduce my screen so that I can hardly read the text, (elderly eyes) only then does the search button appear right over in the right hand corner. Why not closer to the enquiry box thingy's? Fran
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The new(ish) Qld BDM site has undergone lots of improvements since it was originally launched and hopefully this will be the same. I can never comprehend why 'they' do these things without consulting with the people who are going to use the facility.
I am also wondering how anyone, including the Registry, is going to look for pre 1856 events on microfilm without being provided with the full reference number. They are giving the volume number but not the line/event number - so you have to go through the whole film to find one event? Wow, that seems just a little insane! Perhaps that info is available in their system but 'hidden' to us, like the exact dates. Doesn't help with ordering transcriptions though.
Debra :)
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I find it kind of amazing that someone, somewhere, has obviously been paid a decent sum of money to overhaul this site. You would think that there would have been extensive beta testing on various systems and getting authentic user groups to provide feedback.
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Today 22 July I received the following reply from the BDM
Registry to a 2 July 2014 complaint with reference to a
particular case where the June "upgrade" of the Marriage
Index made it no longer searchable without a spouse's given
or family name etc. (I was unaware of use of a wild card).
>Our technical team is currently investigating all the issues that have
arisen since the launch of our new system, no functionality or searching
capabilities should of been lost. Issues regarding scrolling and missing
search buttons have been rectified.
Please note we have reintroduced the wild card * which can be used to
replace a person's name. We will also be introducing soundex to our
records, therefore all records even ones that have slightly different
spellings will come up in results.
We are currently in the process of restoring the missing districts and
volume numbers on the results page. In regards to the date range we are
looking at changing the default to 'yes'. PDF's are being made available.
These are being updated regularly.
We have recently updated again so if you have our website as a favourite
please up date your bookmark.
We could not keep the old site as it was no longer feasible to maintain.
On behalf of the Registry I apologise for the inconvenience caused,
Yours faithfully
Nicole
Client Service Officer
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Many thanks for that update.... I see it took less than three weeks for them to provide you with that info.
I see their left hand still does not know what their right hand gets up to ::) Phew .... I wonder for how long ::) oh well, make hay while the sun shines :P
We could not keep the old site as it was no longer feasible to maintain.
Old search engine still working (22 July 2014, about 11 a.m. NSW time)
Marriages http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/cgi-bin/Index/IndexingOrder.cgi/search?event=marriages
Births and Deaths
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/cgi-bin/Index/IndexingOrder.cgi/search?SessionID=46444574&event=births
Cheers, JM
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I am disappointed this morning to find that the links to the old style searches have been redirected to the new web page. More disappointed that the performance/response does not appear to improved since the "upgrade" in June.
Mark
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Curses!
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:(
Well now that I am forced to use it, is there anybody who is proficient at the new site who can offer a brief tutorial? I know there is lots of information on this thread, but it is a lot to sift through
The help tips are not altogether very helpful and the marriage searches in particular are tricky.
I think especially newcomers, trying to do their own searching will be stumped ??? and we could ask for the tutorial to be stickied at the top of the Aussie board till things are flowing better.
Meantime, Until they re-instate districts events took place in , I can offer help--- from a very old and tedious system I and some others have ::)--- to locate districts.
Sue
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The trick to a marriage search is to type * in all the unknown name/surname boxes
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I really can't be bothered with it especially if experienced researchers are grumbling. Thank goodness I finished my own family research in NSW many moons ago. Not many ventured from Victoria. I never thought I would say it...but thank goodness I have access to other online indexes.
The new NSW bdm search page will not even load for me no matter how I 'approach' it.
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/bdm_fh/bdm_bdsch.html
Page doesn't open
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/bdm_fh.html
The link from the above page to the search facility usually just loads continually and just now I received this message ::) ::)
Service Temporarily Unavailable
The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later.
I emailed their complaints on Friday with my concerns.
Cando
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Chin Up Cando !
I have just tried it again and whacko ! it worked.
Even the location is given - and it appears some certficates can be ordered.
Of course, I haven't totally experimented so I could be wrong. However, there must be light at the end of the tunnel - and it's not a train light !
Jean
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You're right, Jean!
I've been waiting for them to sort things out so I can order a death certificate and just checked the record - the district is now there! But the pdf is still "unavailable". :( Does anyone know whether all NSW BDM records used to have a pdf/digital record available or only some - like Queensland BDM?
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Mmm
some pdfs in marriages are available (in theory ;D) if you do a test using a random search.
There is even an option to order by email.
However when you do try to order by email and attempt to move on with the purchase, guess what ;D--
Error message!
Anyone else making more progress?
Sue
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This new Search facility is one of the dumbest pieces of software ever devised.
Even searching for a particular known Christian name with surname and parents first names brings up the whole lot of deaths for that surname in the time frame.... >:( >:( >:(
What a useless piece of C#$P >:( >:(
I wont be using it again as it toooooo much of a time waster.... so ends searching in NSW for me
Neil
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Just heard on the radio an interview with a Funeral Director that the upgrade is causing huge problems with the issue of death certificates, some taking up to 10 weeks.
So while this "upgrade" has caused us problems with our search of Family History it appears to be also causing problems with families trying to have deceased estates settled. As we all know a Solicitor cannot do anything with out a Death Certificate.
what a mess
Cass
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Link to summary of the interview (I think)
I personally am not seeing the slightest improvement despite the purported round the clock team of "increased staff" working on it ;D
http://omnyapp.com/shows/47e37308-8be1-412c-8013-a219009797db/technical-issues-delay-funerals-across-the-state
Sue
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That's appalling :o
I did receive a reply to my 'complaint' ..all the usual we are working to improve our service etc etc.....We cannot go back to the old way. As in all things change is sometimes hard but it will improve and you will find the new site easy once you are used to it. :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X
Cando
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That's appalling :o
I did receive a reply to my 'complaint' ..all the usual we are working to improve our service etc etc.....We cannot go back to the old way. As in all things change is sometimes hard but it will improve and you will find the new site easy once you are used to it. :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X
Cando
So now the problem has become the user's lack of intellectual ability to learn new ways and lack of flexibility in regard to change.
It is amazing that the range of their excuses and waffle stretches to attribute the tragic time lags, error messages and omissions of essential information to the user ::)
Sue
Sue
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Shame BDM Shame!!! Stop trying to defend the indefensible. Lame-Ass excuses won't work.
Launching an "upgrade" that was not thoroughly tested was a Major Stuff Up!!! Removing the old site prematurely was another Big Mistake!!!
It only highlights the incompetence and lack of expertise in a vital government department. Heads need to roll at NSW BDM. >:( >:( >:(
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All I can say (with tongue firmly in cheek ::) :D ;) ) is that we all suspected that the likes of Rootschatters (and especially Sue, Cando, JM, CofLife) would be such poor researchers that they will need to be familiar with the new site before they can use it properly.
HUMPH - what rubbish!
I emailed NSW BMDs a couple of weeks ago and got a standard reply implying that it would all be ok in the end. Again - what rubbish!
I am especially disgusted by the patronising and ridiculous comments received by Cando.
Unfortunately many of us do not live in NSW so writing to the appropriate minister would probably not be productive however, I hope those of us who do might think of ringing/writing to their local member.
It would be interesting to know what the three accredited agents think of this fiasco, although perhaps they don'tr need to use the indexes very often.
Judith
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I noticed today that the search page at least allows one to scroll down to find the search button if one is using a very large font, or shows the search button without scrolling if one uses other than the very smallest font, which is what worried Neil and myself, and which I submitted a complaint about. No district as yet though. I've abandoned the site and am concentrating on 18th c England! Fran
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Well, they seem to be getting around to co-operating finally, or at least understanding the difficulties they made, all by their own endeavours, for anyone wanting to actually spend money on obtaining copies of any of historic official records that they hold.
I should also mention that there's been some adjustments to the reference nos. for the Early Church Records (the "V" series, basically pre civil registrations). So, I share an earlier experience. Several years ago, I was TOLD by a family history buff that the V stood as an abbreviation for VITAL. I said
No, it is for VOLUME, and refers to the 1912 project that bound those holdings in Volumes. That friend said (in effect), well you had better tell NSW BDM call centre operators that they are wrong.
Ummm, so eventually I got passed those call centre operators, even past the email respondents, and spoke directly with a member of the "Executive team". They in turn checked and errr, finally responded and basically agreed with not just ME, but of course with the NSW State Records Office, and with the State Library, and with a retired senior officer of the BDM. (he is one of my very reliable elderly rellies, and has a wonderful sense of humour, and I so wish he would join RChat, as he has so much background knowledge ! ;D and frequently reads the threads as a Guest).
So, although NSW BDM has not restored the reference column to match how it used to be, we can now see the Volume and its respective line no. for the baptisms, the burials and the marriages that are part of the Early Church Records.
So, not only are the technocrats attending to the practicals but also to the substance ! Eventually it will be 'all back to normal' hopefully before too many have given up on sending funds to obtain the information that is available to the general public. Afterall, funds are always needed for the commercial benefit of the state of NSW. :) ::) :-X :-X :-X
Cheers, JM
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Well I'm not impressed with their service.
Back in August (20th) I ordered a Death Record (year 1967), to be sent by email I am still waiting. The turnaround time on their website said 8 weeks - it is now 10 weeks and I have not received it.
Wonder what their excuse is for this. I'll know to use a Transcription Agent next time.
My credit card was charged within a few days.
Not a happy Sarra >:( >:(
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The turnaround time on their website said 8 weeks - it is now 10 weeks and I have not received it.
My credit card was charged within a few days.
Humm .. contact them and say if they fail to respond to this email within 1 week you will be contacting the credit card provider for a refund for failure to provide the goods.
If they respond with a further delay .. possibly cancel the transaction for a full refund and then use the transcription agent?
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Use to be that credit cards were only charged when goods were dispatched? Maybe they have 'reserved the funds' to check that you have the funds .. some people do that so they don't find the card has not enough funds for the goods they have just sent.
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Although they state 8 weeks turnaround for Historical certificates perhaps this should be noted.
Turnaround delays
A major system upgrade has caused turnaround delays. Standard Certificates are being given a top priority. Commemorative Certificate orders will be dispatched soon. We apologise for any inconvenience.......................
And
Times exclude delivery and are subject to compliance with Registry requirements.
Sarra have you contacted them?
Phone: 13 77 88 for general enquiries
Email: bdm-webmai[AT]agd.nsw.gov.au
Cando
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Sarra have you contacted them?
Phone: 13 77 88 for general enquiries
Email: bdm-webmai[AT]agd.nsw.gov.au
Cando
Haven't tried to contact them as yet. Will try that email address you have posted.
I have just sent off for a NZ print out of a Marriage record (by email) - their turnaround is 8 working days.
Thanks also to Warin for suggestions too.
Sarra
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I used a transcription agent and it only took a couple of weeks and it was a lot cheaper. And that only took a little longer than normal because the agent had a family emergency which delayed things by a week.
Why bother buying certificates from BDM NSW any more if you don't need it for legal reasons? Quicker and cheaper by the agent.
Oh, and I received the transcription last weekend.
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Sorry to bump this thread up again ::)
The September update says that you can now search for marriages with just one name, but that doesn't seem to be true. Is anyone else able to do this - am I just doin' it wrong?
Debra :)
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Debra, I can search with one surname with everything else blank except for a date range.
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OK, so I closed the page and opened it again and now it is working. I wonder what is going on there?
The mysteries of the interwebs. ;D
Debra :)
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A new problem to watch out for.
I have two people with birth registered in 1896, index numbers written down years ago.
I visit the index to see what district this was in, search the index for 1896, they are not there !
These two were born in November 1895, it turns out.
This business of using the exact actual event date, but keeping it hidden and showing the index reference number of a different year, has a downside as well as an upside.
And the silly business of making users try smaller and smaller subdivisions of the year to pinpoint the actual event date, what is the point of that exactly ? You end up accessing their database server 20 times, instead of once. They might as well just display it.