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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Ross & Cromarty => Topic started by: kiwicatz on Monday 23 June 14 08:48 BST (UK)

Title: Alexander McKenzie b 1798 North Erradale, Gairloch, Ross and Cromarty.
Post by: kiwicatz on Monday 23 June 14 08:48 BST (UK)
Hello
This man was my 2 x great grandfather. His father was apparently Duncan 'Ban' McKenzie, a Weaver, b  Gairloch abt 1779 (?) and his mother Jessie Jannett McDonald b abt 1779 Resolis, Ross and Cromarty. I have a copy of their marriage 'at Ineloid' in August 1807. I have never found where or what Ineloid was. Alexander was one of 14 children, and sometime before 1825 he, his sisters Margaret b 13 May 1815 Mevaig; Anna b 30 Aug 1803 North Erradale; and brother Donald Duncan b 1 Jan 1812 Melvaig; went to Nova Scotia, where they settled in Boularderie. Alexander married Ann Fraser in Nova Scotia abt 1825 - Ann was supposedly from Ross and Cromarty, and her parents were apparently James Fraser and Barbara Cameron. Alexander's sister Margaret married Roderick 'Rory Bhui' McLean in 1838 at Boularderie (Roderick was born 04 Mar 1815 and his parents were Murdoch McLean and Catherine McLennan. Alexander's sister Anna married Norman Mhor McDonald, b Jun 1811 at Redpoint, Gairloch - his parents were Murdoch McDomald and Margaret Fraser. Anna and Norman married in (I assume) Boularderie in 1831. The brother Donald Duncan marr Mary McLennan at Cape Breton in 1831 - Mary was born in Gairloch 25 Dec 1820 - I don't know who her parents were.

All of these stayed in Boularderie until 1857 when they travelled aboard the Breadalbane to New Zealand. Alexander took a family of seven, including to of his sons husbands.

Brothers and sister that I think stayed in Scotland were: John Mackenzie 1800 – ? Murdoch McKenzie 1806 – ? William McKenzie 1810 - ? Roderick McKenzie 1816 – 1880, John McKenzie
1819 – 1874, Duncan McKenzie 1822 – ? Murdoch McKenzie 1825 – 1901 John McKenzie 1826 – 1874 John McKenzie 1826 – 1901, Catharine 'Kate' McKenzie 1828 – ?

Is anyone out there researching this family? Or does anyone have any suggestions? I had a relative Chrissie McIvor (who was Chrissie McKenzie I think) she was married to Jock McIvor, but unfortunately I was too slow getting to Scotland, and never met them.

Eager to find out more about our Scottish connection.
Regards
Jan Moon
 
Title: Re: Alexander McKenzie b 1798 North Erradale, Gairloch, Ross and Cromarty.
Post by: Rena on Thursday 26 June 14 23:26 BST (UK)
As it's usual for marriages to be held in the parish where the bride's parents live I've looked at an historic map of Resolis Parish, R&C, to see if there's an old farm with the name of Ineloid where a ceremony might have taken place, but altho' the cartographer has drawn some outlying properties he hasn't put a name to them.  Here's the url of the map:-

http://www.scottish-places.info/parishes/parmap202.html

As Resolis is on the Black Isle, I've also looked at a list of place names, which includes farms.  However, as explained on the page, this list doesn't include names which no longer exist.

http://website.lineone.net/~davghalgh/bislegaz.html

I thought it unusual for a place name to end in "oid" but I see there's one place in Invernes-shire with the name of "Kinloid Farm", it's a caravan holiday place and I haven't looked to see if the name is modern or if it's historic.

You say that other people have seen the 1807 handwriting and agree on it being "Ineloid.  It could be that the vicar was new and wasn't a Highlander, thus didn't have the Gaelic, so wrote what he thought he heard.  In case "Ineloid";  "Ine" and "Loid" could be translated I went onto a Gaelic translation site - all I can say is that there's a faint chance part of the word could be translated as "straight line"  :-\

I hope somebody comes along soon who is able to help.
Title: Re: Alexander McKenzie b 1798 North Erradale, Gairloch, Ross and Cromarty.
Post by: Rena on Friday 27 June 14 00:19 BST (UK)
A longshot:   could the place name be "married In Leod" ?  Only 12 miles away there's a MacKenzie Castle Leod in Fodderty, presumably it had servants and a hamlet attached to it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cromartyshire

Title: Re: Alexander McKenzie b 1798 North Erradale, Gairloch, Ross and Cromarty.
Post by: Agneshill on Friday 27 June 14 07:32 BST (UK)


Can you scan the relevant part of the marriage certificate and let us see the handwriting?
(I was wandering round Resolis yesterday and am now intrigued!)



Title: Re: Alexander McKenzie b 1798 North Erradale, Gairloch, Ross and Cromarty.
Post by: kiwicatz on Friday 27 June 14 09:35 BST (UK)
Will do as soon as I find it - we moved house 18 months ago, and I'm still rediscovering things - just knew I put all the important stuff away myself!
Regards Jan
Title: Re: Alexander McKenzie b 1798 North Erradale, Gairloch, Ross and Cromarty.
Post by: kiwicatz on Friday 27 June 14 11:07 BST (UK)
Here is the marriage - I have missplaced the actual copy but this a sniped piece of the document. I misremembered, Duncan was a Weaver of Melvaig, and it was Jannet's father John McDonald who was 'at Ineloid' - I don't know where I remembered Jessie from either :)

Regards
Jan
Title: Re: Alexander McKenzie b 1798 North Erradale, Gairloch, Ross and Cromarty.
Post by: Agneshill on Friday 27 June 14 13:31 BST (UK)

Well, it certainly looks like "Ineleod".

Comparing it with the "MacLeod" three lines up, the last letters seem to match.

Hmm! Needs more thought.
Title: Re: Alexander McKenzie b 1798 North Erradale, Gairloch, Ross and Cromarty.
Post by: kiwicatz on Friday 27 June 14 14:00 BST (UK)
As I said I've chewing on this for years. I find it hard to find many of the people that my cousin listed for me.
Perhaps her memory was a little short?
Regards
Jan
Title: Re: Alexander McKenzie b 1798 North Erradale, Gairloch, Ross and Cromarty.
Post by: Rena on Friday 27 June 14 17:11 BST (UK)
I've been on this Gaelic translate to English website

http://glosbe.com/gd/en/Ine

and entered "Ine"

The result is a list of words on the LH side and clicking on "ine" takes me to this page:

http://glosbe.com/gd/en/%C3%ACne  ( :-\  oops don't know what that gobbledegook is)

... anyway the translation page shows that "ine" has several general means such as "claw";  "hoof"; "nail"; "talon", etc.

If "Leod" refers to the clan of Leod (McLeod).   There could be several meanings of "Ineleod" such as a piece of land shaped like a curved claw, or the name of a house when its original owner had certain characteristics or trade.
Title: Re: Alexander McKenzie b 1798 North Erradale, Gairloch, Ross and Cromarty.
Post by: kiwicatz on Saturday 28 June 14 09:58 BST (UK)
This is so interesting, I wish I understood better. I've always been very proud of my Scottish ancestors and know a fair bit about my gt gt grandfather and siblings, but very little about the ones that stayed in Scotland.

I'm interested to see there is no ac or c and the surnames are mKenzie, MLenan, was this normaol for the times or just someone lazy doing the scribing?
Regards
Jan
Title: Re: Alexander McKenzie b 1798 North Erradale, Gairloch, Ross and Cromarty.
Post by: Agneshill on Saturday 28 June 14 10:44 BST (UK)

"Mc" is the abbreviated form of the more correct "Mac", which means "son of", e.g. Angus MacDonald means Angus, son of Donald.

Throughout entries in the Old Parish Records you will find that the writers have had their own preferences.
They were probably quite safe in thinking that their efforts weren't  going to be checked!

I have a near-family member who insists that our family name of MacKenzie should be spelt as McKenzie because the Session Clerk who registered a birth on one occasion used the shortened version of McKenzie! All subsequent births etc., used MacKenzie.

Then there are the writers who spell places as "Ineleod" and give us problems way down the line!!!





Title: Re: Alexander McKenzie b 1798 North Erradale, Gairloch, Ross and Cromarty.
Post by: kiwicatz on Saturday 28 June 14 11:13 BST (UK)
Yes I understood that from many hours of looking at Parish records, and noting that once the writing changed, Ann could become An or Anne, depending on the scribe. I just wondered if things were different with the Scots. One thing I wish was that they had more variations in christian names - it's frustrating trying to sort out who's who when a family has 3 sons, all with the same name - specially when it turns out that one is Red John and another is Big John.
Regards
Jan
Title: Re: Alexander McKenzie b 1798 North Erradale, Gairloch, Ross and Cromarty.
Post by: Scottish Janealogy on Saturday 28 June 14 11:18 BST (UK)
Do you know if these people were actually married in Resolis? Melvaig is in Gairloch parish and I'm not seeing anything in the marriage entry to suggest they were married in another parish (I would check familysearch.org for you but seem to have an odd internet problem this morning).  Some of the other entries mention another parish (eg Alexr Maclean in Andrean in the parish of...)

You might find the National Library of Scotland online maps useful too - http://maps.nls.uk/

Resolis is quite a long way from Gairloch, almost on opposite sides of Ross & Cromarty.
Title: Re: Alexander McKenzie b 1798 North Erradale, Gairloch, Ross and Cromarty.
Post by: Scottish Janealogy on Saturday 28 June 14 11:22 BST (UK)
Probably totally wrong but there is a place called Laide in Gairloch.  Ineleaid = in Laide?????
Title: Re: Alexander McKenzie b 1798 North Erradale, Gairloch, Ross and Cromarty.
Post by: kiwicatz on Saturday 28 June 14 11:41 BST (UK)
No, according to Family Search the marriage was in Gairloch. I have tried to find her birth in Resolis, nothing though. I always thought she was born in Gairloch, (plenty of McDonalds there) and The entries that I think are her in 1851 and 1861 say Gairloch. I will have another search of Scotlands People, and Family Search.
Thanks for helping think about this again.
Regards
Jan
Title: Re: Alexander McKenzie b 1798 North Erradale, Gairloch, Ross and Cromarty.
Post by: kiwicatz on Saturday 28 June 14 11:45 BST (UK)
But no births McDonald for Gairloch between 1775 and 1785.

Any suggestions, please?
Jan
Title: Re: Alexander McKenzie b 1798 North Erradale, Gairloch, Ross and Cromarty.
Post by: melba1158 on Thursday 06 November 14 15:21 GMT (UK)
I responded to another thread you had started but I think we are in the same family.  I have an Alexander McKenzie with brothers/sisters named Ann, Catherine, Duncan, John, Murdoch (1826-1890), Roderick (1854-1934), Donald (1836-1917).  They were from Ross but ended up in Boularderie.  Their parents were Hector and Janet (nee MacDonald).  Donald would have been my great2x grandfather.  He was married to Mary McRae.   I find a lot of generations had similar names and sometimes I get screwed up with which level I am on or which family.  At one point, there was a split and some family members spelled their name as McKenzie and some were still MacKenzie.
Title: Re: Alexander McKenzie b 1798 North Erradale, Gairloch, Ross and Cromarty.
Post by: kiwicatz on Saturday 08 November 14 10:20 GMT (UK)
Unfortunately my Alexander's parents were (supposedly) Duncan McKenzie and Jannet McDonald.
He was in Cape Breton by 1826 when he married Ann Fraser. His sister Margaret, Anna and brother Donald Duncan all went to NS, don't know whether altogether or what, but Alex, Margaret and Anna and their families went to NZ on Breadalbane in 1857
A bit variety in the christian names would be good?
Regards
Jan
Title: Re: Alexander McKenzie b 1798 North Erradale, Gairloch, Ross and Cromarty.
Post by: jessiboo_17 on Monday 23 November 15 17:14 GMT (UK)
kiwicatz, Do you by chance happen to have your DNA tested to match for genetic cousins? 

My 3x Great Grandfather has the following family:

Alexander 'Sandy' McKenzie b. 4 Dec 1817 (could be variance in years as suggested on census records) and d. 25 Jan 1912 in Dominion #4, Glace Bay, NS.

He married Isabel Elizabeth Annabel "Bella" McGregor about 1838 either in Scotland or Nova Scotia.  There is a chance that she is a second wife and was even born in Nova Scotia. B. about 1826 (varies on census records up to 1833 which is why I think she could be a second wife) and d. 1 Oct 1911 in Dominion #3, Glace Bay, Nova Scotia.

Alexander's children are as follows:

Catherine (1838-1887)
Annabell (1845-1929)
Colin (1846-?)
Malcolm (1853-1918)
Annie (1855-?)
Murdock "Murdo" (1860-1902)
Jessie Isabel (1864-1942) - my 2x Great Gran and name sake :)
William (1866-1877)

I can't get any further back, but there is also a Donald/Duncan and family that lived in Baddeck.  Donald/Duncan's parents were Colin McKenzie and Mary McLenan.  Not sure if this is any connection to my Alexander but I found it interesting.  There was also a William living in Middle River that also immigrated in 1838 like my Alexander and they all have the same/similar family names.

Where it gets interesting is that all my top cousin matches so far have been 4th cousins via McKenzie in New Zealand and Australia!  That was a surprise.  Two families that have been tracked to were the Weaver McKenzies and the Smuggler McKenzies. 

My thing is that my Nannie (great grandaughter to my Alexander) had mentioned that our McKenzies were Weaver McKenzies.  This came about while talking with her and my aunt when during the week before my step grandfather passed away.  It came about after her mentioning about the Cooper McNeils and I had a crash course about Clan nicknames.

All my top matches also have Weaver McKenzies.

My Alexander is listed on his death registration as being born in Gairloch. 

If you have done your DNA my gedmatch kit # is M260700.  I would love to get in touch with you or anyone else that shares DNA with these particular groups of McKenzies or others that may match up.

Jessie Ross
Title: Re: Alexander McKenzie b 1798 North Erradale, Gairloch, Ross and Cromarty.
Post by: kiwicatz on Tuesday 24 November 15 06:47 GMT (UK)
Yes I did get my psternal DNA done, pretty disappointing as even the supposed 'good' matches have  been untraceable. My Alexander definitely only married once, to Ann Fraser 25 July 1825, she was living at McLennan's Mountain at the time. They were went to NZ with their family in Dec 1856, arriving in Auckland May 1857. His father, Duncan McKenzie was a Weaver, and his mother was Jannet Jessie McDonald, who was a Farmer.
Think they are different families, unfortunately.
Regards
Jan
Title: Re: Alexander McKenzie b 1798 North Erradale, Gairloch, Ross and Cromarty.
Post by: jessiboo_17 on Sunday 26 February 17 19:23 GMT (UK)
In further research, it has been found that my Alexander McKenzie born about 1817/1822 was the son of Murdoch 'Weaver' McKenzie and Annabella/Arabella McKenzie.  Autosomal results of the descendants have proven a relationship of the degree needed to be the same couple.

Our Y chromosome has just came back tested by a male from my Alexander's line.  I still have another 4 kits of descendants of my Alexander I am waiting to come back for more autosomal results.

I am curious if your male Y chromosome is on the Mc/MacKenzie project on FTDNA?  If so, what is the number I can search it on the list by?  Our Y number on that list is 635065.

I have autosomal (as well as other descendants of the Weaver McKenzies) that show autosomal matches to descendants of your Duncan Ban McKenzie.  I am curious if your Duncan and my Murdoch's supposed father William Weaver McKenzie were brothers or possibly depending on the location of Erradale where my Alexander was baptized in 1822. 

Title: Re: Alexander McKenzie b 1798 North Erradale, Gairloch, Ross and Cromarty.
Post by: S_Mac on Thursday 09 March 17 13:41 GMT (UK)
Hey Jess,
I share Y-DNA with you. My FTDNA kit number is 497485. We have a distance of 2 at 67 markers.
Please email me: scot_macka@hotmail.com
Title: Re: Alexander McKenzie b 1798 North Erradale, Gairloch, Ross and Cromarty.
Post by: MJHS1 on Sunday 19 March 17 17:45 GMT (UK)
Hi, I've just stumbled across this thread, as I have been researching MacGregors and MacKenzies around Gairloch. If you haven't seen them, you may find: http://www.kinlochewe.com/documents/Forpublication-SettlementsofWesterRoss-Copy.pdf and http://www.kinlochewe.com/documents/GairlochandCanadianMaritimes-Copy.pdf of interest.
Regards
Mike
Title: Re: Alexander McKenzie b 1798 North Erradale, Gairloch, Ross and Cromarty.
Post by: jessiboo_17 on Sunday 16 April 17 12:49 BST (UK)
Mike,

Are you the guy I emailed about McKenzies and McGregors a while back?  I think there was an adoption or something involved?  We match in DNA?

Jessie
Title: Re: Alexander McKenzie b 1798 North Erradale, Gairloch, Ross and Cromarty.
Post by: MJHS1 on Sunday 16 April 17 14:55 BST (UK)
Hi Jessie,

No, I don't think that it was me.

Regards

Mike
Title: Re: Alexander McKenzie b 1798 North Erradale, Gairloch, Ross and Cromarty.
Post by: jessiboo_17 on Sunday 16 April 17 15:13 BST (UK)
Hi Mike,

That's interesting!  My McGregors were from Perthshire, but my McKenzies were from Gairloch area.  Have you tested your autosomal DNA by any chance?  I'm always in the market to find more matches to try and make sense of them all!

Jessie
Title: Re: Alexander McKenzie b 1798 North Erradale, Gairloch, Ross and Cromarty.
Post by: bevbrettt on Sunday 09 July 17 18:58 BST (UK)
Reading the handwriting it is Leoid    with the i it is gaelic  ie. mac Leoid  differnt grammatical rules for spelling. very late to jump in - doing research on Cape bretoners in NZ   
Title: Re: Alexander McKenzie b 1798 North Erradale, Gairloch, Ross and Cromarty.
Post by: Forfarian on Thursday 27 July 17 13:16 BST (UK)
Just came across this thread.

The marriage was recorded in the parish of Gairloch. Since it just says 'in Ineleoid', not 'Ineleoid in the parish of xyz' you are looking for somewhere in the parish of Gairloch.

So it cannot be Castle Leod or anything near there.

I have looked through the whole of the transcription of the census of Gairloch in 1841 at https://www.freecen.org.uk/cgi/search.pl and found nothing remotely resembling Ineleoid. So wherever it was, it must either have been abandoned very early, or it must have changed its name.

Spelling isn't important. You can be Mac, Mc, M', sometimes followed by a space and sometimes not, and the same individual's name can be spelled in different ways depending on who is writing it down. The same applies to place names. It would make life a lot easier if there were a single 'correct' way of spelling names, but there isn't. :(

The names Jessie and Jan(n)et are interchangeable. If you mislay a Janet, look for her as Jessie, and vice versa.
Title: Re: Alexander McKenzie b 1798 North Erradale, Gairloch, Ross and Cromarty.
Post by: LuciaMD on Thursday 07 September 17 02:20 BST (UK)
Just came across this thread. I am researching Donald McKenzie married Mary McClennan. You said that they married in 1831 in Cape Breton. It may have been 1841 if as you stated Mary was born in 1820. Do you have a source for their marriage? Donald and Mary likely had 9 children, only two that I can verify. If this is the same Donald, he likely remained in Cape Bretton and his children left for Massachusetts. Anyone else looking at this family?
Title: Re: Alexander McKenzie b 1798 North Erradale, Gairloch, Ross and Cromarty.
Post by: aspin on Friday 22 September 17 23:03 BST (UK)

"Mc" is the abbreviated form of the more correct "Mac", which means "son of", e.g. Angus MacDonald means Angus, son of Donald.

Throughout entries in the Old Parish Records you will find that the writers have had their own preferences.
They were probably quite safe in thinking that their efforts weren't  going to be checked!

I have a near-family member who insists that our family name of MacKenzie should be spelt as McKenzie because the Session Clerk who registered a birth on one occasion used the shortened version of McKenzie! All subsequent births etc., used MacKenzie.

Then there are the writers who spell places as "Ineleod" and give us problems way down the line!!!
You are right there with the spelling of McKenzie my maiden name is McKenzie and once my great grandparents emigrated to New Zealand the MacKenzie was added they were from Helmsdale
I too have relatives newly found by rootschat in Canada from Gairlock and also an Alexander McKenzie ( MacKenzie ) and waiting for more information about my relatives and their families
Elizabeth
Title: Re: Alexander McKenzie b 1798 North Erradale, Gairloch, Ross and Cromarty.
Post by: Foehn on Wednesday 24 January 18 11:16 GMT (UK)
Kiwicatz, are you an NZeder? Husbands family immigrated to NZ and settled in Masterton. Alexander Mckenzie was his gt gt grandfather and they came from Ross and Cromarty, born 1803. His wife was Mary Gollan. These were their children.    
Donald McKenzie 1834–1927 • Isabella Mckenzie 1837–1915 •Roderick Duncan McKenzie 1839–1914 •Murdoch McKenzie 1842–1907 • Colin Mackenzie 1844–1889 • John Mc Kenzie 1847–1934 • Jessie McKenzie 1850–1864 • Jemima McKenzie 1853–1942 •
Title: Re: Alexander McKenzie b 1798 North Erradale, Gairloch, Ross and Cromarty.
Post by: Skoosh on Wednesday 24 January 18 13:18 GMT (UK)
Gollan & Roderick Mackenzie sounds like the parish of Urray, Ross-shire?

Skoosh.
Title: Re: Alexander McKenzie b 1798 North Erradale, Gairloch, Ross and Cromarty.
Post by: Foehn on Wednesday 24 January 18 20:58 GMT (UK)
This was from Scotland's people
 GOLLAN MARY
RODERICK GOLLAN/ISABEL YOUNG
0
26/07/1811
068/
10 252
Killearnan

She married  Alexander, according to our records,
Marriage: 10 January 1834
Urray, Ross And Cromarty, Scotland
Title: Re: Alexander McKenzie b 1798 North Erradale, Gairloch, Ross and Cromarty.
Post by: McRobin on Tuesday 04 September 18 18:45 BST (UK)
Hi Jessie,

We match on my maternal side, which has roots through Stobo Scotland as well as Highlands and Nova Scotia going back to the 1700s and early 1800s.
Title: Re: Alexander McKenzie b 1798 North Erradale, Gairloch, Ross and Cromarty.
Post by: jessiboo_17 on Tuesday 29 January 19 00:15 GMT (UK)
Hi Jessie,

We match on my maternal side, which has roots through Stobo Scotland as well as Highlands and Nova Scotia going back to the 1700s and early 1800s.

Hi Robin,

If you'd like we could exchange family trees or info in email or pm here :) 
Title: Re: Alexander McKenzie b 1798 North Erradale, Gairloch, Ross and Cromarty.
Post by: Skoosh on Tuesday 29 January 19 09:20 GMT (UK)
Folk whose ancestors came from places which suffered the Clearances & the Herring Boom, like Gairloch & Helmsdale, might be interested in reading Neil Gunn's "The Silver Darlings!" A great novel which captures the life of the people then!

Skoosh.
Title: Re: Alexander McKenzie b 1798 North Erradale, Gairloch, Ross and Cromarty.
Post by: DanielMacRae on Monday 08 July 19 16:14 BST (UK)
North Erradale is not a big hamlet. Less than 75 homes at it's peak. Do you know the siblings of Alexander McKenzie? My gr gr grandmother is Janet(Jessie) McKenzie who married Alex McRae in North Erradale.
Title: Re: Alexander McKenzie b 1798 North Erradale, Gairloch, Ross and Cromarty.
Post by: aspin on Monday 08 July 19 16:46 BST (UK)
Can I get back to you later I’m on holiday
Elizabeth