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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Cornwall => England => Cornwall Lookup Requests => Topic started by: selwynfroggitt on Sunday 29 June 14 11:17 BST (UK)
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I have John Henry Kinsman with his mother Caroline in 1901 living at Lawson Villa, Parkstone, Dorset.
She gives her age as 58 and born in Carharrack but the age may or not be correct..
I would like to find more about Caroline as there were a few Caroline Kinsmans born in Gwennap area around that time... unless I can establish which Caroline it is then it is a dead end with this family
Can anyone find her and John Henry on other census years
Thank you
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I would like to find more about Caroline as there were a few Caroline Kinsmans born in Gwennap area around that time.
Caroline gives herself as a widow on that census, so if that is correct you need to find her marriage and maiden name.
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Thank you Groom.... I have seen the 1901 census but for some reason did not note that she was shown as a widow.. i thought unmarried mother....
Her son John Henry was born in 1863 and is shown on the census as living at East Taphouse, St Pinnock, Cornwall... I have no note of who is with him ...may be 1871 shows her as single....
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https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/2DVX-PXH possible marriage
1871 - possible family. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VFJH-4JS
There are 2 John Kinsman born 1863
Births Mar 1863
KINSMAN John Henry Redruth 5c 280
Births Dec 1863
KINSMAN John Liskeard 5c 69
So maybe not the family you are seeking
1881 RG11; Piece: 2286; Folio: 107; Page: 8
St Neot
Looks like same family. Mistranscribed as Kingsman
William 40
Caroline 40
John 17
Joseph 9
George 5
Edwin 4
Mary Blackwell 23
Henry Blackwell 13
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1871 RG10/2240/47 p 10
St Pinnock, East Taphouse and West Taphouse
William Kinsman 30
Caroline Kinsman 30 wife b Gwennap, Cornwall
John Kinsman 7
Wm Kinsman 5
Henry Kinsman 3
Elizth A Kinsman 10 Months
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Possible marriage
June 1863
KINSMAN William
TREVETHAN Caroline
Liskeard 5c 123
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Thank you Vronladdy, Cas and Groom...... I was initially looking at the Kinsman family back to John Henry Kinsman and noted that his mother was with him in 1901 .. made a mistake in thinking that she was a single mother so been difficult to research further..
Thank you for the correction.. an avenue I had not considered
Cheers
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I have just followed William Kinsman and Caroline Trevethan but it would appear according to Rootschat that Caroline died in 1881 yet my Caroline is with her son in 1901...
Looks like another avenue closed
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So this is your likely John. If you wish to proceed further, I would get the cert to see what info you can obtain.
Also try and find him in census, do not have access at mo or would try help. You have discounted the family in reg district Liskeard as Caroline dies in Dec Q 1881.
Births Mar 1863
KINSMAN John Henry Redruth 5c 280
http://www.genuki.org.uk/cgi-bin/places?CON,SW700420,5,Redruth
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/Cornwall/Redruth/
Just my thoughts
Good luck Cas
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hello Cas..
I have John Henry Kinsman in 1901 said to be a retired Army Officer and his mother with him... I did note 1871 living at East Taphouse but this now seems to be a mistake... I should have followed it properly when I had Ancestry but it didn't seem important then..I did check for John Henry 1881 and 1891 but toook the army career as reason for not finding him... he died in 1937 in Poole
I had trouble with this man before as I had the twin sons born in 1932 and tried to trace a John Henry Kinsman born after 1900 but John Henry married again in 1930 and was 68 when the twins were born... so assumptions led me astray before..
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http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=690627.msg5345187#msg5345187
There is a £1 month sub on FindMyPast..if you wish to take it up, it is good value, just remember to untick the box not to renew, if you wish.
There are very good service records there that may give you more detail, along with census.
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Very odd, as far as I can see, there are only 3 John Kinsmans of the right age in Cornwall in 1871 and the one we gave before in Liskard is the only one with a mother Caroline. Your one, does give his POB in 1901 and 1911 as St Day, Cornwall which fits with the Redruth birth.
There are army records of a John William Kinsman, born Gwennap Cornwall, but he was born in 1898. The only other one died in WW1 in 1916.
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Very odd, as far as I can see, there are only 3 John Kinsmans of the right age in Cornwall in 1871 and the one we gave before in Liskard is the only one with a mother Caroline. Your one, does give his POB in 1901 and 1911 as St Day, Cornwall which fits with the Redruth birth.
There are army records of a John William Kinsman, born Gwennap Cornwall, but he was born in 1898. The only other one died in WW1 in 1916.
Strange he is not on military records or census to identify. Birth cert needed to go back with info. Going fwd, do you have the right 'John Henry' clarified at 68 fathered twins? Married x2 who was his first and second wife, when, where?
Trying to help, there are many here who would give you info gladly. You need to give all info you know omitting living individuals. Details can be given with them poss PM
Cas
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John Henry Kinsman born Dec q 1863 St Day, Cornwall.
1894 Marries Susan Stroud a widow who's husband Frances Charles Danford had died 20 Jan 1888 in Barton Regis... he left over £3000
1901 Lawson Villa, Parkstone, Dorset..retired Army Officer...with his wife Susan Stroud... mother Caroline age 58 with him all living on own means
1911 Heathercliffe, Southborne, Christchurch..boarding house proprieter with his wife Susan.
10 March 1919 John Henry Kinsman Groves born
22 9 1930 Susan dies probate to John Henry Kinsman (gentleman )
Sep q 1930 John H Kinsman marries Ada Elizabeth Groves the mother of John Henry Kinsman Groves
Only a week between death of Susan and end of Sep q ??
June q 1932 Twins Alan and Gordon born both deceased
Dec Q 1937 John Henry Kinsman dies aged 73 in Poole
This is the information sustantiated by family
Not sure of details but I have been told that Susan was an invalid and that Ada worked at the boarding house.
This is all that is known.
John Henry may have been a retired Army Officer but not seen evidence of service.
Yes I need his birth certificate or either marriage cert to see if his father is named..
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parish register for his first marriage shows his father as John
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XT9D-5N7
possible marriage for parents
John Kinsman sept qtr 1861 with Caroline Rapson on the same page
1861 Carharrack, Gwennap RG9/1577 folio 90 pg 16
Jane Rapson head 39
William son 17 copper miner
Caroline dau 16
Ann Jones sister mar 48
John Kinsman lodger 24 mason
all born Gwennap
Caroline was baptised 26 Oct 1845, dau of William Emmanuel Rapson, a carpenter, and his wife Jane
But I haven't found them on the census as yet, so this may be coincidence.
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Thamks Osprey...
Caroline Rapson does look interesting. I have had a search and found a little about Caroline and although nothing to confirm she is the one I have found nothing to suggest she is not.
The 1861 census looks good and being 24 years old and not in the Army does suggest that he was never an Army Officer...
I will carry on with this avenue, whatever the result it all helps.
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1871 has a John Kinsman, Occp Mason, is born c 1839 Gwennap
John Kinsman 32
Eth Kinsman 27
John Kinsman 6
Richard Kinsman 3
Marriage;
8 April 1865, Holy Trinity, St Day, Cornwall
John KINSMAN, age 26, Bachelor, Occp Mason, abode St Day, Father SIMON Kinsman, Occp Mason
Elizabeth Jane BARCLE, 2, Spinster, abode Crofthandy (no Father named)
Witnesses, William Kinsman and Caroline Gregor
Baptisms;
Holy Trinity, St Day
WILLIAM JOHN Kinsman, 11 Feb 1866
RICHARD Kinsman, 1 Aug 1868
Parents Jno or John and Elizabeth Jane
Abode Symmons St
Fathers Occp Mason
He stays married to Elizabeth right up til 1901 Census.
Ah, interesting;
Marriage Reg, Sept 1861 Redruth, 5c 442
John KINSMAN and Caroline RAPSON on same page
Trish :)
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yes, Trish, that's the marriage I was referring to earlier, but I'd forgotten to add the refs. It's a definite marriage as I've found the other 2 people on the page together, the female is Mary Barron Warne & helpfully she uses her middle name after marrying John Phillips.