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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: hannahlee on Friday 04 July 14 11:25 BST (UK)
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I can't find d john miller or his children or his wife jane miller I believe they where either in the Bromley bow or cryoden area of London and I think john was a clerk there son was I think either James m miller or john m miller after his father and the daughter was jane s miller I believe after her mother
I know the father died young I have no idear what happened to him or how he died or what happened to his children help would be appreciated many thanks
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Hi
Is1836 his date of birth? What makes you think they were either in Bromley Bow or Croydon as they are some distance apart?
When is the last time you have them together?
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His wife ended up in Croydon marrying Thomas Austin
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And yes I believe this is his date of birth ;D
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Is this them in 1861 - RG9 /51 f 69 p19 - Westminster St John the Evangelist
James Miller 25 bn Aldgate, Middlesex
Jane Miller 25 Ashprington, Devon
James Miller 4 months bn Dalston, Middlesex
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There is a marriage in September quarter 1875 of a Jane Miller in Hackney, which would fit with the living in Bromley by Bow. On the same page is a Thomas Austin.
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I was just going to post that marriage :)
It states that Thomas Austin married Jane Miller 15 Aug 1875 - Jane Miller is a widow and her father is John Scobell occ Farmer
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That looks like them in 1861, Rosie as her place of birth fits with a later census.
That means James dies between 1861 and 1875.
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ist marriage West Hackney 12.2.1860
James Miller commercial agent s of William bookseller
Jane Scoble d of John farmer
witnesses W and J Miller
baptism St Botolph aldgate
James 6.2.1835 s of William and Sophia Miller bookseller ? Smithfields
Ciderdrinker
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1851 census
Upper East Fields Goodman's Fields
William Miller 52 bookseller Marylebone
Sophia 53 St Dunstans
Alfred 27 bookseller
Charles B 20 hosiers stockman
Edward 17 printers app
James 15 solicitors clerk
Amelia Easton 24 servant
Other childrens bapts Charles William 30.5.1830 St Leonards Foster Lane
Henry 24.6.1832 Aldgate St Botolphs
Edward 3.1.1833 same.
Sophia nee Baker was William's second wife and they married 24.11.1828 at ST Leonard's Foster Lane
Ciderdrinker
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An online tree gives the birth of a son John M Miller in 1867 in Dalston, Middlesex, so he must have been alive until at least 1866.
The only death I can see that fits his age is in Kingston in Sept quarter 1867 aged 31, but that is nowhere near where we'd expect him to be.
Can anyone find Jane Miller and the children in 1871?
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Yes wow but I don't know what happened to him or his son the daughter stayed with her mother and after she got remarried as I have the photos but the son is nowhere
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Also they did move around abit in London as I think jane cane up from Devon Arlington and think she might have been in Kent with her aunt before she married my gt grandmother ada was born in Bromley so I know they did move around abit but I wonder why they where over in Kingston and to die so so young ? Poor man sad would love to know what he died from
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Also what was nice is the fact that her first husbands father william was also a witness at her second marriage as I have the certificate I think that both her husbands might have worked together
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I can't see Jane in 1871 ::)
The Austin family are here in 1881 with John M Miller age 14
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XQQT-2BY
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We don't know that is his death - all I said that it was the only one I could see that fitted, there is no guarantee it is him. We really need to find the family in 1871 to see if Jane is a widow by then. If she is, you could then risk getting that certificate to see if it was him.
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Sorry I don't have the wedding certificate of her and Thomas Austin on me as not at mine at present I know they moved and where living in cryoden I believe
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Sorry I don't have the wedding certificate of her and Thomas Austin on me as not at mine at present I know they moved and where living in cryoden I believe
The marriage was in Hackney ;)
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There are quite a few online trees for this family, but none have James's death or the family in 1871.
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1875 marriage they are both at Wilton road
This could be John age 4 in 1871
John Miller 4 scholar London
Coulsden Asylum for fatherless children
Ciderdrinker
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Jane and her new husband were in Croydon by 1881
Lr Addiscombe Rd No 6 High St Terr Croydon
Thomas Austen 54 Draper Leicestershire
Jane Austen 45 Ashprington, Devon,
Jane A. Miller 17 Regents Park, Middlesex
John M. Miller 14 Dalston, Middlesex
Ada H. Austen 4 Dalston, Middlesex
Florence Austen 2 Dalston, Middlesex
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Oh that's sad why keep one of the children and not the other personally that doesn't make sence to me but very very said I believe they might have been at oval rd as they I think lived next door later to ther daughter or at least close by in Croydon
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There is an admin in 1866 for a James Miller with wife Jane who died 19 March 1866.
Will post details
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Thank goodness the who family where together and where not separated so was that him in Kingston ?
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Letters of Administration - James Miller formerly of 65 Cornhill in London but late of Forest Row, Dalston, Middlesex who died at The London Fever Hospital, Liverpool Road
Registry to Jane Miller of Forest Row, widow
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Does it say how he died and what happen to the son and daughter did they marry I know jane the daughter stayed with the family for a while as I have photos but I have a strange photo og someone in early twentys layer out in a coffin and wondered if it was her as it couldn't have been ada as she died along time after infact just after I was born I think I was three but it could be Florence or jane but it's mainly jane and her brother Iam interested in as they just seemed to vanish from the family
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1871 Wilton Road
Matthew Pottway 37 commission agent Corsica
Emma M 27 Penteville
Carolino 5 St Pancras
Mary M 3 Hackney
Maria 1
Jane Millar lodger widow 35 ladies underwear maker Ashprington
Grace Earl unmarried aunt 75 Ashprington
So the children are not with her in 1871.What a shame,but at least she gets them back.
Ciderdrinker
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Oh that's sad why keep one of the children and not the other personally that doesn't make sence to me but very very said I believe they might have been at oval rd as they I think lived next door later to ther daughter or at least close by in Croydon
They were in Oval Road by 1891.
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So he died in hospital sorry bit slow does it say what of ???? And if a fever hospital that could be anything like tb ect and what of the two children did they marry
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Sister
Jane Sophia Mary Ann Miller admin died 13.10.1915 Oval road Croydon to John miller clerk
£263 11s 2d
Ciderdrinker
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You would need a death certificate to see what he died of. I have yet to confirm that it is your James Miller as I need to match a death registration and age.
Thanks ciderdrinker, I was just looking for that again to post. :)
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Blimey so she had to give them up and then get them back so she went home to Devon and didn't take the children and then married and went back ? So said as I have a wonderfull photo of her and her husband Thomas arms draped all over him hugging him which was UNHEARD of in those days so a lovely ladie that must have been terrible your husband dieting and having to send your childen to a home and give them up just awefull
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Letters of Administration - James Miller formerly of 65 Cornhill in London but late of Forest Row, Dalston, Middlesex who died at The London Fever Hospital, Liverpool Road
Registry to Jane Miller of Forest Row, widow
This looks like his death then from Freebmd - the certificate would tell you the cause of death. His DOB is wrong though.
March quarter 1866
Miller James 35 Islington 1b 217
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So how long where the two children in care for ?and if jane died did she marrie did her brother marrie ?. I thought she married Thomas not long after her first husband died ?.
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From what cider drinker posted, Jane Sophia Mary Ann Miller didn't marry.
Dont jump to conclusions, Hannah, she may have left the children with relatives while she went back to visit relatives. There is no real way to know, as a census just shows us where she was on that particular night. What we do know is that she was in Dalston in 1867 and 1877 when her children were born.
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Ok getting slightly confused .... It happens so janes husband died but so are her children buy 1915 have I got this right so all three millers apart from jane died young oh that is devastatingly sad poor poor jane thank you so so much for your help I do wonder how they met as jane must have come up to be in London from Devon
Thank you all once again fab yes I will get certificate after I have there wedding certificate I will get his death certificate
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But did her brother ever marry
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Cider drinker
Where the children both in the home when jane went back to Devon and how long where they there for ?. And where do I get details about children that have been in like workhouses and places like this
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But did her brother ever marry
This could be him in 1901
RG13; Piece: 640; Folio: 18; Page: 27
Living in Oval Road, Croydon a few doors away from his mother and step father
John Miller 34 Tailor Dalston, London
Elizabeth Miller 32 Folkestone, Kent
John S Miller 15 son Kennington, London
Harry Simmins 20 boarder
Sarah Smith 69 lodger
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Oh that's lovely becouse that would mean that they had both sets of grandparents loss by and step grandparents Iam pleased though being dislexic Iam getting confused with the johns and James lol I suppose that there's isn't any more info ofter that with his children ? Wow Iam blown away and yes they may have stayed with relatives after her husband died but I thought that cider drinker and found the lad in the home ????
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Is there any more info on
Living in Oval Road, Croydon a few doors away from his mother and step father
John Miller 34 Tailor Dalston, London
Elizabeth Miller 32 Folkestone, Kent
John S Miller 15 son Kennington, London
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Is there any more info on
Living in Oval Road, Croydon a few doors away from his mother and step father
John Miller 34 Tailor Dalston, London
Elizabeth Miller 32 Folkestone, Kent
John S Miller 15 son Kennington, London
No, that's all that the census gives.
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This could be John age 4 in 1871
John Miller 4 scholar London
Coulsden Asylum for fatherless children
There is no firm proof that is your John in 1871 apart from the name and age, but it is quite a common name. Although Coulsdon is near Croydon, the family must have a connection with Dalston as the next child was born there, so I wonder why John would have been sent to an orphanage in Coulsdon, and where the daughter Jane was.
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;D ;D ;D ;D thank groom cider and everyone that helped with this I can now put that to rest thank you
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Yes groom this was my thoughts as they both would have been very young so Iam a bit lost as why put one and not the other and not being funny surely boys where worth more as in work,possibility's in those days ?..
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I thought they where all together in 1871 :-[
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Janes nee name was scobel so maybe she or the children stayed with relives there or he desest husbands family as I said the father of her first husband was witness to her SECOND marrage that's how close she was to the millers and then nothing