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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Argyllshire => Topic started by: Shirley Crampton on Sunday 06 July 14 19:51 BST (UK)

Title: Where is Caolasraide or Coalasraide, Argyll?
Post by: Shirley Crampton on Sunday 06 July 14 19:51 BST (UK)
My Crawford and Fletcher ancestors apparently came from Caolasraide or Coalasraide, Argyll.  I found references to both names in Google but can't find it in any Scottish gazatteers.  Does anyone know where it is?
Title: Re: Where is Caolasraide or Coalasraide, Argyll?
Post by: Craclyn on Sunday 06 July 14 20:04 BST (UK)
Looks like it may have Gaelic origins. Try genuki website and look for place names in Argyll. I think I remember seeing several names that started with Coalas.
Title: Re: Where is Caolasraide or Coalasraide, Argyll?
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 06 July 14 20:32 BST (UK)
Hi and Welcome  :)

Could it be  Caolas Rahuaidh, Morven?  It's listed in the OS place names on Scotlands Places: 

http://www.scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/digital-volumes/ordnance-survey-name-books/place-names/Argyll?page=12&class=county&id=3


Gadget

Added - just found this:  http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2055874
Title: Re: Where is Caolasraide or Coalasraide, Argyll?
Post by: iancraw on Wednesday 06 August 14 04:41 BST (UK)
My family has been looking for the elusive Caolasraide  for years.  My great great grandfather John Crawford was born in Caolasraide  in 1801 and emigrated to Ontario, Canada in the 1830s.  We understand Caolasraide is in South Knapdale, Argyll, Scotland and family legend said it was a fishing village.  Many families in the area I come from in Ontario originated from Caolasraide.  One farm in Poplar Hill, Ontario even had the name Caolasraide. I was told 30 years ago my aunt wrote to a university in Scotland trying to locate Caolasraide  and they sent her  an article from our local Ontario paper that was about people who originated from Caolasraide but they had no further information.
Title: Re: Where is Caolasraide or Coalasraide, Argyll?
Post by: IMBER on Wednesday 06 August 14 08:30 BST (UK)
Hi Iancraw

If your great great grandfather was born in this location then I take it you may have some form of record backing this up. If so then this might be a useful start in pinning down this elusive place. What is the source of your information?

Imber
Title: Re: Where is Caolasraide or Coalasraide, Argyll?
Post by: Skoosh on Wednesday 06 August 14 11:15 BST (UK)
Caolis means the narrows so in South Knapdale this would surely apply to somewhere on West Loch Tarbert ot Loch Killisport, which itself means Loch Caolisport. At the head of the loch is Ceann Loch Caolisport.

Shirley, I'm using a 2" to the mile map, much more detail available on the National Library website.

http://maps.nls.uk/os/

Skoosh.
Title: Re: Where is Caolasraide or Coalasraide, Argyll?
Post by: iancraw on Wednesday 06 August 14 12:15 BST (UK)
The best information we have about John Crawford's birthplace is found in "Some Sketches of the Early Highland Pioneers of the County of Middlesex" originally published in 1904 by the Gaelic Society of Toronto was republished in 1979 by Ottawa Canadian Heritage Publication. Page 35 indicates John Crawford came from Caolasraide in 1835. The information found on page 34 is indicated this information came from from Donald Campbell who was the father in-law of Duncan Crawford (John's son). According to this book a large number of immigrants to Caradoc and Lobo townships came from Caolasraide. Page 15 of this book locates Caolasraide in South Knapdale.


Title: Re: Where is Caolasraide or Coalasraide, Argyll?
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 06 August 14 14:02 BST (UK)
somewhere on West Loch Tarbert ot Loch Killisport,



A while ago just after I did my first post on this thread, I found the baptism of someone who was said to be from Coalasriade. The baptism was in the parish of  Kilcalmonell and  Kilberry. This ties in with Skoosh's deduction. Couldn't find it on the Nat Lib 6 ins OS maps.

Gadget
Title: Re: Where is Caolasraide or Coalasraide, Argyll?
Post by: iancraw on Wednesday 06 August 14 23:37 BST (UK)
Thank you for the postings, Gagdet's posting was the first time I have come across a Scottish reference for Coalasraide.  Up to now all my references have been Canadian.
From 1790 to 1799 the British government developed a Statistical Account of Scotland by Parish. This can be found at www.stat-accscot.edina.ac.uk. Follow the links to Argyll and select the South Knapdale parish to see information about this area. I also looked at he KIlacalmonell and Kilberry parish but there are no mentions of Coalasraide.  However these documents do give an impression of life in the area at the end of the 18th century.
Title: Re: Where is Caolasraide or Coalasraide, Argyll?
Post by: Skoosh on Thursday 07 August 14 09:59 BST (UK)
Ian,  here's the local Knapdale website,

http://www.knapdalepeople.com/

Skoosh.
Title: Re: Where is Caolasraide or Coalasraide, Argyll?
Post by: Carl Fletcher on Wednesday 28 January 15 23:13 GMT (UK)
Information provided on the history of the Fletcher family as recorded on page 332 of the Heritage of Lobo township says "the Fletcher and Crawford families lived in a little town in Argyleshire 14 miles from Tarbet.  Both families were interested in shipbuilding and carpentry. Archie Fletcher 1807-1882 married Margaret Crawford 1818 -1891 in the Presbyterian church in Cara Argylshire January 16 1838."

sorry to add more confusion to the discussion

1.   If the naming of the town was incorrect and it should be Tarbert not Tarbet then that would support other comments posted re south Knapdale

2.  Is Cara mentioned as in "the Presbyterian church in Cara"  a short form or a misheard or mashed version of the Gaelic for Caolasaraide after being passed down through generations?
3.  Or do they really meant Tarbet  which is located on Loch Lomond also near a narrows between  Loch Lomond and Long Loch meaning there was a cara 14 miles from there.

Would be great to sort this out

carl fletcher
Title: Re: Where is Caolasraide or Coalasraide, Argyll?
Post by: argyllshiregirl on Thursday 29 January 15 01:17 GMT (UK)
Hi Carl,

Hello from a Scottish born Fletcher living in Canada, who once lived in Tayvallich, North Knapdale, Argyll before immigrating here. My Father and I work together on trying to sort out the various Fletcher lines in the area.
It's definitely Tarbert. As you say, the one without the R is miles away from Knapdale.
Cara is actually a small island off the west coast of Knapdale.

Mary Fletcher Harris
Title: Re: Where is Caolasraide or Coalasraide, Argyll?
Post by: iancraw on Thursday 29 January 15 02:29 GMT (UK)
Hi Carl,

I can't answer your questions but I believe the mysterious Caolasraide I am looking for is a village that was near Tarbert.  The area I was raised in Canada included Caradoc and Lobo townships was originally settled by many families from the Knapdale area.  There are still members of the Fletcher family who farm in Lobo township.  It is possible Margaret Crawford is connected to my family but I have no records past my great great grandfather who was born 1801 in South Knapdale.

Ian Crawford
Title: Re: Where is Caolasraide or Coalasraide, Argyll?
Post by: Carl Fletcher on Friday 30 January 15 05:01 GMT (UK)
Thanks Mary and Ian

After I made the posting  I found and  downloaded a map from Wikipedia (search Argyll)  of Argyllshire from the 1850's and Loch Lomond is not part of Argyllshire so looks like that supports Tarbert with an R,  Did not see Caolasraide on the map.

Mary - a cousin of mine has our pedigree being Fletcher of Dunan's going back to the chiefs. Not my research so am accepting it at face value.  No question of being from Argyll though as the predominate family names are Archie, Duncan and Donald on this side of the Atlantic!

Ian  Yes I am a Caradoc/Lobo Fletcher descendant although I live on the south edge of St. Thomas now.  Lots of Cousins between Komoka and Poplar Hill

My immigrating ancestors Archibald Fletcher and Margaret Crawford are buried in the Lamont cemetery on the Lamont farm on the caradoc lobo townline (yes it would have a different  road name now).  The Lamonts that own the farm are also fletcher descendants.    My dad tells me that the original Scottish settlers of that immediate area called their community Culloden though it seems no village ever came about for the name to stick to.

Archie ,Margaret , their 2 oldest children immigrated with Margaret's four brothers  Dugald, Malcolm, Archibald, and Dr. Allen Crawford.  The Crawford's father was Malcolm Crawford who immigrated later.  Margaret Crawford Fletcher is my great great grandmother but it seems that the Fletchers have lost Family "consciousness"  of any Crawford cousins.

Carl Archie Fletcher  fletcherfamily@rogers.com
Title: Re: Where is Caolasraide or Coalasraide, Argyll?
Post by: argyllshiregirl on Friday 30 January 15 14:07 GMT (UK)
Hello Carl,

Fascinating! Yes, to go back to the beginning, the Fletchers were originally Irish migrants maybe 5,000 years ago, as were most of the Celts in Argyll. In fact, Argyll is actually Earra-Ghàidheal meaning land of the Gael. The Fletchers were originally MacInleisters. They reportedly first emerged as a clan from the barren looking Glen Orchy where the ruins of their 16th century castle Achallader can be found today. They were cattle people and drove herds back and forth across the highlands, out to green islands to fatten and down to southern markets. Likely around the time of the Union of the Parliaments in 1707, when English markets opened up to Scottish traders, The Fletchers became wealthy. The 9th Chief of Clan Fletcher, Archibald "Gillesbuig Na Crannich" Fletcher, purchased Dunans, a manor house on the Cowal Peninsula, and he and subsequent generations added onto it until it became a castle. The chiefly family lived there until their lines ran out. It is in bad shape (had a fire) and is now in private hands, but the owners are making a great effort to repair and restore it.
As for me, I descend from the 9th Chief's younger brother, John of Inveroran. The 8th Chief, their father, also an Archibald Fletcher, had 2 other sons - Angus and Donald. My father has been trying to piece together our ancestry for many, many years. We believe that a son of John of Iveroran, yet another Archibald Fletcher, was my 5x great grandfather. My particular branch was involved in cattle too, but also in sheep, working as shepherds for many generations right down to my grandfather and father.
My 2x great grandfather, Alexander Fletcher, went to the Isle of Mull in the mid 1800s to work with a cousin at Glen Aros. He married there and had 10 children. Mull has several Fletcher branches, all brought to the good grazing in previous centuries. They all claim to be "different" Fletchers, but my father always believed there is only one (spread out) Fletcher family in Argyll. A Y DNA test done by my father and one of the Mull Fletchers proved that we are indeed related. You will also find traces of Fletchers on islands such as Islay and Jura. I bet grazing is why your Fletcher was on Cara! You will also find Fletchers at points of land where sea crossing was favourable.
Shepherds can be found in multiple locations over the years. Agricultural families might stay "a lease" in a house and find it unsuitable, then move along. My father has letters of recommendation for both his shepherd grandfathers, given as they left their jobs, and it's a big pile of letters!
We have been in touch with 2 branches of Ontario Fletchers since our own arrival from Scotland in 1967. There are the descendants of Alexander "Squire" Fletcher in the Bowmanville area (another DNA match) and Fletchers in Oro Township, Simcoe County, who came here from Islay in the 1820s. We are located in Simcoe County too.

Mary Fletcher Harris scotincanada@gmail.com
Title: Re: Where is Caolasraide or Coalasraide, Argyll?
Post by: jrhay on Sunday 26 April 15 05:55 BST (UK)

My immigrating ancestors Archibald Fletcher and Margaret Crawford are buried in the Lamont cemetery on the Lamont farm on the caradoc lobo townline (yes it would have a different  road name now).  The Lamonts that own the farm are also fletcher descendants.    My dad tells me that the original Scottish settlers of that immediate area called their community Culloden though it seems no village ever came about for the name to stick to.

Archie ,Margaret , their 2 oldest children immigrated with Margaret's four brothers  Dugald, Malcolm, Archibald, and Dr. Allen Crawford.  The Crawford's father was Malcolm Crawford who immigrated later.  Margaret Crawford Fletcher is my great great grandmother but it seems that the Fletchers have lost Family "consciousness"  of any Crawford cousins.

Carl Archie Fletcher  fletcherfamily@rogers.com

Margaret Crawford's brother Archibald married Janet Graham who figures in my family as several of my ancestors settled in Lobo and the surrrounding area.  I would be interesting in at least knowing who were Archibald Fletcher's parents.

As for Caolisraide and Cara I had made enquiry about this back in 2005 and received the following in reply from the Archivist of the Argyll and Bute Council:

"The place name you required about is one of those names for which there is
no standardised spelling.  It can be found as Killislate, Keilslate,
Caolislate, etc.  The name has totally disappeared today, but originally it
was a district lying partly in the Parish of Kilberry and partly in the
Parish of South Knapdale.  Since the boundary change in 1891, however, it
has lain entirely within South Knapdale.

"My suspicion is that the name “Cara” is a misreading for the place name
“CARSE”, in Caolislate and in the Parish of Kilberry in the 1830s.  There is
no Presbyterian Church in the island of Cara.  Kilberry Parish Church,
however, which is Presbyterian, is adjacent to Carse."

This latter makes sense as there is a marriage between Archibald Fletcher and Margaret Crawford on 13 January 1838 in the parish of Kilcalmonell and Kilberry.
Jim.
Title: Re: Where is Caolasraide or Coalasraide, Argyll?
Post by: Flattybasher9 on Sunday 26 April 15 07:18 BST (UK)
Just curious, but have you looked at this, especially,the map? :-

http://meekwrite.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/autobiography-chapter-6-under_1.html

Regards

Malky
Title: Re: Where is Caolasraide or Coalasraide, Argyll?
Post by: Skoosh on Sunday 26 April 15 12:43 BST (UK)
Caolis is just a narrows Malky, there are a lot of them about.

Skoosh.
Title: Re: Where is Caolasraide or Coalasraide, Argyll?
Post by: DonM on Sunday 26 April 15 15:43 BST (UK)
If what the archivist wrote to jrhay is correct then there are a couple of possibilities.  http://maps.nls.uk/view/74400200

Don
Title: Re: Where is Caolasraide or Coalasraide, Argyll?
Post by: Flattybasher9 on Sunday 26 April 15 18:26 BST (UK)
"Caolis is just a narrows Malky, there are a lot of them about."

Can I take it that you loked at the map, then read the text regarding the areas history below?

Regards

Malky
Title: Re: Where is Caolasraide or Coalasraide, Argyll?
Post by: jrhay on Sunday 26 April 15 18:33 BST (UK)
I am inclined to accept what the archivist wrote as accurate.  Given the number of families who came from Caolasraide it being a district rather than  village or farmtoun.

Caolis as a croft on Tiree is, I believe, quite separate.  It seems unlikely that a single croft would have had so many families to emigrate.  On the other hand there is evidence that the families in question came from teh area described by the archivist.

Jim.
Title: Re: Where is Caolasraide or Coalasraide, Argyll?
Post by: Flattybasher9 on Sunday 26 April 15 18:46 BST (UK)
Jim, may I suggest that you also read the whole of the text below the posted map.

Regards

Malky.
Title: Re: Where is Caolasraide or Coalasraide, Argyll?
Post by: jrhay on Sunday 26 April 15 19:29 BST (UK)
I believe that I have read far enough to understand that the Caolas on Tyree and the aforementioned district of Caolislate or Caolisraide are not the same.  The parish register entries for the birth of Crawfords who emigrated from Caolasraide to Caradoc and Lobo Townships appear to support what the archivist wrote.  I have located records for Dugald, Archibald, Catherine, Neil and Malcolm Crawford in Kilcalmonnel and Kilberry Parish.  There is a record for a marriage between Archibald Fletcher and Margaret Crawford on January 13, 1838 in kilcalmonnel and Kilberry Parish.  This is consistent with what the archivist wrote regarding Cara versus Carse.

One last piece of information which tends to support what the Archivist wrote, in the 1841 census Malcolm Crawford (50), Ann Crawford (50), Neil Crawford (12), Allan Crawford (9) and Malcolm Crawford (1) are all found living at N. Coulghaiter.

Jim.
Title: Re: Where is Caolasraide or Coalasraide, Argyll?
Post by: argyllshiregirl on Sunday 26 April 15 20:50 BST (UK)
I would love to know who Archibald Fletcher's parents were. Based on the traditional naming pattern, I would guess that his father was a Duncan Fletcher. His mother was possibly a Catherine or a Nancy/Agnes/Ann.
They connect somehow to my own Argyll Fletchers, but I'm not sure how yet. More info. needed, it would seem.

Mary Fletcher Harris
Title: Re: Where is Caolasraide or Coalasraide, Argyll?
Post by: Skoosh on Sunday 26 April 15 22:24 BST (UK)
I know this quite well & have crossed the Sound from Coll several times.

Skoosh.
Title: Re: Where is Caolasraide or Coalasraide, Argyll?
Post by: Rosinish on Sunday 26 April 15 22:29 BST (UK)
My Crawford and Fletcher ancestors apparently came from Caolasraide or Coalasraide, Argyll. 

Caolas is Gaelic for "Bay"


Anne Marie
Title: Re: Where is Caolasraide or Coalasraide, Argyll?
Post by: Skoosh on Sunday 26 April 15 22:36 BST (UK)
Caolas is a narrows, as in Ballachulish.

Skoosh.
Title: Re: Where is Caolasraide or Coalasraide, Argyll?
Post by: Rosinish on Sunday 26 April 15 22:41 BST (UK)
I have located records for Dugald, Archibald, Catherine, Neil and Malcolm Crawford in Kilcalmonnel and Kilberry Parish.
Malcolm Crawford (50), Ann Crawford (50), Neil Crawford (12), Allan Crawford (9) and Malcolm Crawford (1) are all found living at N. Coulghaiter.

Interestingly, I have a Neil Crawford b 1819 Kilcalmonell & Kilberry son of Archibald & Isabella Galbraith who married my relation Mary MacKinnon 21 Nov 1871................a possible relation  ???


Anne Marie
Title: Re: Where is Caolasraide or Coalasraide, Argyll?
Post by: Rosinish on Sunday 26 April 15 22:45 BST (UK)
Caolas is a narrows, as in Ballachulish.

Can also be "Sound"

Anne Marie
Title: Re: Where is Caolasraide or Coalasraide, Argyll?
Post by: Isabell Crampton on Sunday 04 September 16 22:25 BST (UK)
Iancraw
I obtained the information from the article that you quoted.  I think that we are related.  My Crawford/Fletcher relatives lived near Poplar Hill.  Archibald Fletcher and Margaret Crawford were my great-great grandparents but they lived in Lobo and Caradoc townships.  Their son Malcolm lived near Poplar Hill, as did I.
Title: Re: Where is Caolasraide or Coalasraide, Argyll?
Post by: Isabell Crampton on Sunday 04 September 16 22:38 BST (UK)
I think that a lot of us are related.  If you are interested in sharing more information please contact me. I haven't seen a way to receive email notification of postings, which is why I haven't been on this chat group for a long time.  Thanks for all the information.
Title: Re: Where is Caolasraide or Coalasraide, Argyll?
Post by: Rosinish on Sunday 04 September 16 23:38 BST (UK)
Hi Isabell,

It is against RC rules to type email addresses unless by Private Message & it will be deleted by a Moderator if not removed which can be done by using the "Modify" button.

Annie
Title: Re: Where is Caolasraide or Coalasraide, Argyll?
Post by: Isabell Crampton on Monday 05 September 16 01:55 BST (UK)
Will someone please tell me how I can send a private email to some of you, since I think that we are related and can possibly share information.
Title: Re: Where is Caolasraide or Coalasraide, Argyll?
Post by: Rosinish on Monday 05 September 16 02:04 BST (UK)
Isobell,

If you look on left side of post of person you want to send message to, there symbols under their names.

Hover your mouse over the one which looks like paper with writing which will say "Personal Message"

Hope this helps?

Annie
Title: Re: Where is Caolasraide or Coalasraide, Argyll?
Post by: petexxx on Sunday 11 September 16 04:21 BST (UK)
both of you post your email w a trusted 3rd party and have them connect you -
Title: Re: Where is Caolasraide or Coalasraide, Argyll?
Post by: iancraw on Tuesday 12 September 23 23:25 BST (UK)
Subject: Reviving the Discussion on Caolasraide

Hello everyone,

It's been a while since this forum was active, but I'm excited to revive the discussion on Caolasraide and the people associated with it. I hope there's still interest in this fascinating topic, and I would welcome any ideas and information to see what we can learn together.

In my research, I've concluded all known individuals connected to Caolasraide can be traced back to 1 source. This source is a book edited by Hugh McColl in 1904 for the Gaelic Society of Toronto. The book, titled "Some Sketches of the Early Highland Pioneers of the County of Middlesex1," lists hundreds of individuals, place of origin, their settlement dates in Middlesex County, and often their children.

Within this book, 12 individuals are documented to have originated from Caolasraide in South Knapdale. These individuals include Duncan Lamont, Archie Fletcher, Malcolm Crawford, Margaret Crawford, John Crawford (my great-great-grandfather), Charles McLean, Allan McLean, Duncan McLean, Margaret McMurphy (widow of Archibald Johnson), Dugald McMurphy, Dugald Carmichael, and Archibald McGugan. They settled within an area of 80 square miles outlined by Strathroy, Coldstream, Lobo Village, and Mount Brydges, Ontario.

To make this information more accessible, I'll break down my thoughts into three separate postings. This post is intended to reintroduce the topic. In my next post, I'll provide references from Hugh McColl's book for the individuals associated with Caolasraide. Finally, in the last post, I'll discuss plans to research these individuals further, seeking information about their lives in Scotland to determine if any insights into what location(s) they had in common.

Here are the web addresses for Hugh's book:

1904 edition
https://www.canadiana.ca/view/oocihm.79291/1

1979 Reprint (searchable)
https://digitalcollections.ucalgary.ca/asset-management/2R3BF1OEHIY83

I look forward to your participation and insights in this journey of discovery!
Best regards, iancraw

1. Hugh McColl. Some Sketches of the Early Highland Pioneers of the County of Middlesex.  Ottawa, Ontario: Canadian Heritage Publications, 1979 (reprint 1904).
Title: Re: Where is Caolasraide or Coalasraide, Argyll?
Post by: iancraw on Wednesday 13 September 23 01:52 BST (UK)
Subject: Reviving the Discussion on Caolasraide

Hi, here is part 2 of my planned 3 postings to restart the discussion on where is Caolasraide.

A.   Introduction

To assist in our discussion about Caolasraide, I've compiled key references from "Some Sketches of the Early Highland Pioneers of the County of Middlesex." These references shed light on individuals who originated from Caolasraide. In this post, I will present the information from the book and provide a few insights based on comparisons with other records. In my subsequent post, I will explain how this information could be instrumental in uncovering the precise location of Caolasraide. My hope is that organizing this information will aid others in their research and potentially lead to collaborative efforts in investigating this intriguing historical mystery. Note that square brackets indicate information I have added to the 1979 edition text.

B.   Relevant Portions from the Book

Section: Pioneer Ministers and Movements

Page 15
Duncan Lamont was born in Caolasraide, South Knapdale, in 1802, and came to Lobo in 1820. He professed conversion, was baptized in 1829, soon after ordained a deacon, and preached in Lobo, Caradoc, and other places for 37 years, till his death in 1867.

Section: Township of Caradoc

Page 35
Archie Fletcher, Caolasraide, 1842, c., Archie, Neil, Dugald, Duncan, Nancy (Mrs. McKenzie), Mary (Mrs. A. McLellan), Margaret (Mrs. D. McGugan), Jennie (Mrs. A. McGugan)

Malcolm Crawford, Caolasraide, 1842, c., Archie (Lobo), Dugald, Dr. Allan. Malcolm, Mrs. Arch. Fletcher [Margaret Crawford], all d.

John Crawford, Caolasraide, 1835, c., Archie, Duncan

Charles McLean, Caolasraide, 1831, d. in Enniskillen, c., Malcolm, Allan, Annie (Mrs. Keith) Sarah (Mrs. A. Johnston). Mary (Mrs. D. Turner), Catherine (Mrs. A. Duncan), Bella

Allan McLean, Caolasraide, 1831, c, John, Hector, Allan, Archie, Charles, Duncan, M. D., at Deckerville. Mich., Isabella at home

Duncan McLean. Caolasridae 1831, c., John L., in Strathroy, Charles A.

Section: Township of Lobo

Page 38
Donald Lamont, Caolasraide, 1820, c., Duncan, Peter, John, Mary m. Donald Johnson, Isabella m. Sylvester Campbell, Rachel m. Donald Sinclair, Christie m. Duncan Graham

Widow (of Archibald) Johnson [Margaret McMurphy], Caolasraide, 1820 (family record further on):
Page 40 Married Archibald Johnson at Tabert, came to Lobo in 1820, c. Alexander, Effie, Donald, Nancy, Hugh, Bella, Margaret, John, Dugald, Archibald, Mary (ten born in Scotland and one after 1821). The father was accidentally drawing in the Thames in the spring of 1821.

Page 39
Dugald McMurphy, Caollasraide, 1842, c., John, Arch., Duncan, Dugald, Donald, Alex., Christie (Mrs. D. Root), Nancy (Mrs. John Edwards), Flora (Mrs. Thos. Edwards), Bella (Mrs. James Campbell), Mary (Mrs. Rowe)

Dugald Carmichael, Caolasraide, 1842, (moved to Petrolea), c., John, Mrs. Anderson, Mrs. Barry,
Mrs. Butterworth

Page 39-40
Archibald McGugan, Coalasraide. 1828. c. John. Archie. Duncan. Flora (Mrs. Currie), Sarah (Mrs. Anderson), Margaret, Mary

C.   Insights and Commentary

In this post, I have maintained the spellings as found in the 1979 edition, the original 1904 used the spelling of "Caolasraide" except for 1 typo of "Caolasraie."

Regarding Hugh McColl's book, I am using the term "place of origin" for Caolasraide. While I've searched within the book, except for Duncan Lamont, I have not found clarification on whether this represents the birthplace or a residence at some point in these individuals' lives. It's essential to note that the children mentioned in the book are not necessarily born in Scotland; for many individuals, most of their children were born in Canada. Also, it will take further effort to find the spouses of individuals, it appears the spouses are listed with their families. Sharing the same last name does not necessarily provide conclusive proof of a familial relationship. Despite longstanding speculation, there are no records to definitively establish a connection between John Crawford and Malcolm Crawford.

The book does specify that the year mentioned is when these pioneers settled in the stated township. I suspect that the information was sourced from local township offices, where land records would have documented the initial possession of properties.

I hope these clarifications enhance the understanding of what is found in Hugh McColl's book, making it more informative and engaging for fellow genealogy enthusiasts. For those who have connections with anybody listed above I am interested in learning more about the people you are researching.

Warm Regards, iancraw
Title: Re: Where is Caolasraide or Coalasraide, Argyll?
Post by: iancraw on Wednesday 13 September 23 02:53 BST (UK)
Subject: Collaborative Efforts to Uncover the Mystery of Caolasraide

Hello, fellow genealogy enthusiasts,

As we delve deeper into the quest to uncover the secrets of Caolasraide, I want to express my unwavering enthusiasm for this endeavor. Allow me to share a family story of those who have searched for this elusive place. Around 1980, my aunt wrote to a university in Scotland in pursuit of information about Caolasraide. Her hopes were high, however, the university responded with a reference from Ontario instead of Scotland. While I can't be certain, my best guess is that this reference was the 1903 letter to the Argyllshire Advertiser, documented in a 1977 genealogy magazine. The author of this letter was a contributor to the book "Some Sketches of the Early Highland Pioneers of the County of Middlesex." I would like to post the article but found it is too large. I will see if I can reduce the size and post later.

It's possible that no official Scottish record exists for Caolasraide, making it challenging to pinpoint its location definitively. However, I hold out hope that someone among us may have access to a Scottish record that mentions Caolasraide. In reply #7, a forum user named Gadget recalled seeing Caolasraide on a baptism record for Kilcalmonell and Kilberry, though details about the person and date were missing.

My primary goal is to unravel the lives of the individuals listed as originating from Caolasraide. To achieve this, I'm starting with Canadian records to match families and gather reliable birth years. The next phase involves searching Scottish records for individuals and family members to identify locations and patterns that could shed light on Caolasraide's whereabouts. This is where your invaluable insights and knowledge can play a pivotal role.

On page 15 of the book, it states that Duncan Lamont was born in Caolasraide, South Knapdale, in 1802. I've delved into the 1790 Statistical Account of South Knapdale, yet I'm still not entirely clear on whether the parish of Kilcalmonell and Kilberry would be included in South Knapdale or considered distinct.

If any of you have alternative ideas or strategies for uncovering the mysteries of Caolasraide, please don't hesitate to share them. Your perspectives are invaluable, and together, we can make progress that we might not achieve individually.

Before closing, I will share one more personal story about my search for Caolasraide.  The first tangible evidence of Caolasraide I ever saw was a barn. Near Poplar Hill Ontario, there was a barn with painted large letters “Caolasraide,” attesting to another family’s link to their past. If anyone recalls this or has information about the family please share. 

I eagerly anticipate hearing your thoughts and insights.
Warm regards,
iancraw
Title: Re: Where is Caolasraide or Coalasraide, Argyll?
Post by: Forfarian on Wednesday 13 September 23 11:20 BST (UK)
I've delved into the 1790 Statistical Account of South Knapdale, yet I'm still not entirely clear on whether the parish of Kilcalmonell and Kilberry would be included in South Knapdale or considered distinct.
It depends whether you are talking about parishes, which have defined borders, or areas which do not.

Knapdale is not a formally defined area, but it is the area south of the Crinan Canal and north of the isthmus at Tarbert.

Kilberry is on the southern coast of this area.

See attached screenshot from the Statistical Account of Scotland. This makes it clear that Kilberry is in Knapdale but Kilcalmonell is in Kintyre, and, further, that the parish of Kilberry is south-west of the parish of South Knapdale. (In other words, at that time the parish of South Knapdale was not the furthest south part of Knapdale.)

The parish of Kilcalmonell and Kilberry and the parish of South Knapdale are mutually exclusive, but both are in the south of the area known as Knapdale. At a later date (1891) the parish of Kilberry was detached from the united parish of Kilcalmonell and Kilberry, and attached to the parish of South Knapdale, which thus became the most southerly part of Knapdale.
Title: Re: Where is Caolasraide or Coalasraide, Argyll?
Post by: Forfarian on Wednesday 13 September 23 11:37 BST (UK)
I believe that I have read far enough to understand that the Caolas on Tyree and the aforementioned district of Caolislate or Caolisraide are not the same.
Correct.

Caolas (from caol meaning thin or narrow) is a very common element in Gaelic place names, and means a narrow stretch of water. It is often anglicised as kyle or kyles.

Title: Re: Where is Caolasraide or Coalasraide, Argyll?
Post by: Forfarian on Wednesday 13 September 23 11:53 BST (UK)
I note with interest that one some older maps, the ridge of hills that runs south-west to north-east across Knapdale is labelled Killislate. See https://maps.nls.uk/view/216442881, for example.

The letter c in Gaelic is equivalent to k in English. L and r can be interchanged in some instances, and d, phonetically speaking, is the voiced equivalent of t. So in terms of phonetics, Caolasraide and Killislate could be equivalent.

This presents a dilemma, however. Killislate could not remotely be considered a fishing village, let alone a narrow stretch of water.

What I think you need to do is go through the originals of all the baptisms in the parish of Kilcalmonell and Kilberry, and make a note of any that mention Caolasraide/Caolaslait/Killislate or any similar-sounding name (beginning with c or k, including l or r, and the last consonant either d or t - c/k*l*r*d/t*) and see what you have got.

You should be able to rent a microfilm of the parish register at any LDS church Family History Centre. Alternatively you could view some or all of the 260 pages of the Kilcalmonell and Kilberry parish register online at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk at a cost of GBP 1.50 per page. Might be cheaper than travelling to an LDS Church FHS!

Title: Re: Where is Caolasraide or Coalasraide, Argyll?
Post by: Wes38 on Tuesday 16 January 24 13:38 GMT (UK)
I ran across this thread while researching Dugald McMurphie and Christy McLachlan who married in Tarbert in 1825 and emigrated in 1842 to Lobo.  They and their children are referenced in the pioneer document.  I will come back when I have sufficient additional or wilkl respond to questions.

Wes McLachlan