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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Berkshire => Topic started by: LizzieL on Wednesday 09 July 14 08:19 BST (UK)
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According to Pallot's marriage index (on Ancestry) Thomas Bishop married Eliza Eltham / Heltham in 1834 in Wantage. Berks extracted parish records has the date as 14 Feb 1834. I have been trying to find the couple on the 1841 and 1851 censuses but no luck. Of course either or both may have died before 1841, but if I could find them it might lead to finding out Eliza's parents etc.
I thought I had them in Fifield in 1851 as lodgers with a 2 year old daughter Jane.
(HO107 / Piece number 1732 Folio 238 Page 9) which has Eliza's POB as Chilton Berks (small village near Wantage). (FindMyPast has transcribed birth county as Oxfordshire - are they translating original counties into post 1974 counties?!). But now I believe this is the Thomas Bishop who married Elizabeth Farmer in Chipping Norton district Q1 1848.
So please can someone help finding my Thomas and Eliza.
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There's a Thomas 35 and Elizabeth 25 with Harriet 3 in Wootton in 1841.
In 1851 the 3 of them are still in Wootton with an additional 4 children. Everyone born Wootton.
Is that near the marriage place for your couple at all?
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Hi LizzieL,
The only Thomas Bishop I can find is this baptism in Wantage, which may not be the correct one;
Bapt. Wanyage;
11-10-1786 Thomas s/o John & Mary Bishop (born 20-8-1786)
For 1841 there is a Bishop family but its been transcribed as "Bisher"
Thomas & Elizabeth born 1811 Berks with Eliza 1 month old;
(HO 107, Piece; 17, Book; 31,Parish; Speen, Berks)
In 1851, there is a Thomas Bishop with wife Elizabeth living in Reading but born Wantage, again the ages don't tie up (too young) in the 1851 census; (HO 107; Piece; 1692, Folio; 687, Page; 7)
Thomas Bishop, 25, Gardner/Coachman born Wantage
Elizabeth " 30, Nurse, " Wargrave
Martha " 3 " Easby ?? (Earley in 1861)
Mary " 7 mths " Whitley
I looked in the Chilton transcripts but couldn't find Elizabeth's baptism there. In fact there are some Eltham bapts. but they are only from 1871 - 1891
Not much for you I'm afraid.
Alan
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You may be onto something there Milliepede.
FreeREG has these Marriages, St. Peter and St. Paul, Wantage;
Thomas BISHOP Bachelor of Wantage to Sarah MARTIN Soinster of Wantage, 6 Dec 1802
Joseph BISHOP, Bachelor of Cholsey Berkshire to Charlotte WELLAVISE Spinster, 25 Dec 1826
John BISHOP, Widower to Ann GILES Spinster, 1 Jan 1833
+ Thomas Bishop and Elizas Marriage 1834
1851 Census we have;
JOHN Bishop born c 1791 Northmoor, Oxfordshire, living in Wantage
Trish :)
1841 there is a ROBERT Bishop born c 1816 living in Wantage, not born in County
1851 he is born c 1812 Martock, Somerset, living in Wiltshire
Child Henry is born c 1841 Wantage, Berks, which fits with 1841 Census
My point is that the Bishops in Wantage seem to have got around/originated from elsewhere.
JOSEPH Bishop born c 1807 Wantage and Wife Charlotte and Children in Wantage
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Thank you both for looking. As the marriage place was Wantage, I would expect one or both of them to be born in Wantage or quite close to. I think Wootton is a bit too far away, unfortunately. The fact that there are no Elthams bapt in Chilton until 1870, confirms that the Thomas / Eliza in Fifield isn't the right pair and most likely is Elizabeth Farmer, a fellow lodger with them is also a Farmer born in Chilton, so possibly her brother.
The Chilton baptisms should all be children of Alfred and Elizabeth (nee Annetts) and should be 8 children. Minnie, Rose, Ben, Tom, Heber, Hungerford and Stanley and an eighth who died young - possibly Janet who came between Rose and Ben. Heber was my grandfather - a gift of a name for searching indexes!
The Wantage Thomas Bishop is a possibility, which means we're likely to be looking for a widower marrying a widow. Sarah Martin could have been his first wife
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Just realised that the Thomas born in 1786 would only be 16 in 1802, possible but probably to young for that marriage.
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Could be several unrelated Bishop families living in or passing through Wantage in the early 1800s.
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Just looked FreeReg for Thomas and Eliza's marriage, he was a bachelor and she was a spinster - information which wasn't on the Ancestry transcript. So at least I know Eltham was Eliza's maiden name and I'm not looking for a widow. So back to first theory of their births around 1810 ish.
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Going back a bit further, Freereg has a marriage in Wantage between John Bishop of Wantage to Mary Westell of Grove on 17 April 1786, this could be the couple who baptised a Thomas later the same year. This John could be the widowed John who married Ann Giles in 1833 or it could be the John born in Northmoor. Maybe wills and probate is the next thing to check
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Since posting this, I have been pursuing a James Eltham who had a family in London, but looks like he was born near Bath s/o John and Ann. He appears to have had a sister Eliza bapt Timsbury Somerset in 1811.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=786799.msg6420846#msg6420846
Could she be the Eliza who married Thomas Bishop?
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I have found a tree on Ancestry, which I am now trying to verify, that may have my missing Thomas Bishop.
The tree has a John Bishop born abt 1790 who married an Ann Mulles (no dates given). They had a James and Thomas baptised in Fulbrook, Oxon in 1812 and 1813 respectively, then Mary Ann, Eliza and William baptised Wantage in 1815, 1818, 1822 respectively. Mary Ann married in Wantage in 1834 to Henry Rose and James married in Wantage to Lydia Hulcup in 1843. She was a widow, maiden name Farmer. Eliza seems to have several illegitimate children but did not marry. There is no further information on the tree for William or Thomas. But it does place a Thomas Bishop of the right sort of age in Wantage as it looks as if his family moved there between 1813 and 1815.
I didn't just find this tree at random, I have a DNA match to the tree owner, but through a different line (Hawkins). I have checked the Hawkins side on the tree and it matches with what I have also found, so it gives me some confidence in the research.
I have found a John Bishop of right sort of age in Wantage in 1851, born Northmoor, with William (but b 1836) John says he's married but no wife with him.
There is a John Bishop age 40 in 1841 with William and Eliza (but they seem too young). Looking at the image it looks like there was a 5 behind the 4, as if age 50 might have been scratched out.
Can anyone help fill in the gaps please.