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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Cumberland Lookup Requests => Cumberland => England => Cumberland Completed Lookups => Topic started by: sirsimon on Thursday 10 July 14 14:31 BST (UK)
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Hello
My ancestor James Henry Steele was born in 1855 in Brampton, Cumberland to James and Sarah Steel. He married a woman named Alice and had a child named Alice M Steele, born 1879.
He appears in the 1871 and 1881 census, but he vanishes until 1911, living in Durham with another woman named Mary Agnes and has been married for 24 years with children James Joseph Steele and Annie Lizzie Steele.
I was wondering if someone could help me find out what happened to Alice, did they divorce? did she die between 1881 and 1911? Also I would like to know what the maiden name of Mary Agnes is and what happened to his daughter Alice M? Did she marry or die?
PS James married in Gateshead and died there in 1834
Edit: Apparently James married Alice in 1877 in Gateshead, however that does not explain why she is absent in the 1911 census and why they are living in Brampton in 1881
my thanks
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In 1911 his wife is Mary Jane, not Mary Agnes :)
1891 census
RG12/4286/53/12
61, Oswald Street, Carlisle
James H. Steele, head, m, 34, Railway Ticket Collector, Cumberland Hayton
Mary J do, wife, m, 27, do do
James J do, son, 7, scholar, do Wetheral
Thos Hy. Robson, bro in law, s, 14, Carter, do Hayton
Annie L Steele, daur, 2, do Wetheral
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Thank you
I notice some things odd about this census
I could not find it online, his wife is stated as Mary Jane, however he married Alice in 1877 and she appears on the 1881 census. On the 1911 census she is stated as Mary Agnes, not Mary Jane
Sorry for the confusion, this is very strange indeed
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On the 1911 census she is stated as Mary Agnes, not Mary Jane
His wife is definitely Mary Jane in 1911. have you looked at the original?
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In 1891 he had a brother in law called Robson living with him.
Marriage in 2nd quarter 1886, James Steele + on the same page Mary Jane Robson, Brampton 10b, 659
This fits with the '24 years married' which you mentioned in your original posting.
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I was wondering if someone could help me find out what happened to Alice, did they divorce? did she die between 1881 and 1911?
Possible death:
Alice Steele, aged 29, 4th quarter 1883, Carlisle 10b, 287.
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this is very strange indeed
Not really :)
It looks like he married Alice, who died in 1883.
Then he married Mary Jane, and they are still together in 1911.
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They are in Carlisle in 1901.
RG 13/ 4864/188/37
76 Oswald Street, Carlisle
James H. Steele, head, m, 45, Railway Passenger Guard, Cumb, Hayton
Mary J. do, wife, m, 37, do do
James J. do son, 17, Railway Signal Labourer, do Wetheral
Annie L. do, daur, 12, do, Wetheral
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Edit: Apparently James married Alice in 1877 in Gateshead, however that does not explain why she is absent in the 1911 census and why they are living in Brampton in 1881
James, Alice and daughter Alice are not living in Brampton in 1881, they are living in Maryport :-\
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Possible death:
Alice Steele, aged 29, 4th quarter 1883, Carlisle 10b, 287.
I see that son James Joseph Steel was born in Carlisle in the same quarter of 1883, so possibly Alice died in childbirth :-\
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thanks guys, this clears up things
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Does Maryport come under the district of Carlisle? Since both Alice and James were born and died there. According to the 1911 census, James Joseph was born in Wetheral, not Carlisle, did births in Wetheral get registered in Carlisle as a district?
thanks
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James Henry's daughter Alice M Steele was born in 1878, was her middle name Maud? I have found a December 1878 birth registered in Cockermouth district.
thanks
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Does Maryport come under the district of Carlisle?
Maryport was in Cockermouth Registration District.
Wetheral was in Carlisle Registration District.
Does Maryport come under the district of Carlisle? Since both Alice and James were born and died there.
Alice died in Carlisle Registration District and James was born in the same district. Therefore they could not have been living in Maryport at that time, because that was in a different Registration District.
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thank you, I have just noticed something interesting
James Henry Steele died in Gateshead in Durham in 1934 aged 79 years.
There is a death for a Mary Jane Steele in Gateshead in 1895, the age matches the birth for Mary Jane Robson born in 1863, yet in the 1911 census she is still living, is this an error?
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Confusing then that the 1881 census gives the family living in Maryport, yet the births and deaths are registered under a different district, that being Carlisle. :-\
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There is a death for a Mary Jane Steele in Gateshead in 1895, the age matches the birth for Mary Jane Robson born in 1863, yet in the 1911 census she is still living, is this an error?
Steele is not an uncommon name - the death could be of a completely different person. You would have to get the certificate to find out exactly who it was. Since your James's wife, Mary Jane, is shown as alive in the 1901 and 1911 censuses it isn't very likely to be her :)
Does Maryport come under the district of Carlisle?
did births in Wetheral get registered in Carlisle as a district?
This list is well worth bookmarking, as it shows which Registration Districts towns and villages were in http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/places/regindex2-1.pdf
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Confusing then that the 1881 census gives the family living in Maryport, yet the births and deaths are registered under a different district, that being Carlisle. :-\
Presumably between those two dates they had moved from Maryport to Carlisle :)
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Double checked and I have found Mary Jane's death in 1912, so we wont have to worry about that detail :)
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A bit off topic, but checking the marriage of James Joseph Steele, he apparently married a Bridget A Farrell/Parrell, yet I cannot find children
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On the 1911 census she is stated as Mary Agnes, not Mary Jane
I see that on your other thread about Annie Lizzie's occupation in 1911 someone else pointed out that her name was Mary Jane, not Mary Agnes :)
And I think it's Mary Jane, not Mary Agnes
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I know, my mistake, it looked like Agnes at first glance :P
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Thank you, two more questions, Did his son James Joseph Steele have any children and where did his daughter Alice M Steele disappear to?
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In 1891 Alice is in Carlisle
RG 12 / 4286/ 12 / 23
4, Mason's Place, Carlisle
Annie Thompson, wife, m, 42, Cumberland ?Cairn Bridge
Alice M. Steele, niece, 12, scholar, do Maryport.
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Was she married by 1901? There's a marriage in 1897 in Carlisle and one in 1911 in Whitehaven. The middle name is ommited on the 1911 record
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I haven't looked for her yet in 1901. Do you have access to any of the census sites? Have you had a look for her under her possible married names? You could find these from freeBMD.
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I can't seem to find her
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Gravestone at Brampton Old Church:
In memory of Levi eldest son of William and Alice HETHERINGTON of Brampton who died April 28th 1857 aged 5 years. Also of Mary their daughter who died Octr 7th 1866 aged 3 years. Also of Agnes Deborah their daughter who died Decr 6th 1867 aged 12 months. Also of Alice their daughter and wife of James H STEEL who died at Wetheral Nov 1st 1883 aged 29 years.
Should have a photo somewhere if you would like one?
cheers
robbiesmum
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Yes I would like a photo please
thanks
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Hi
I've put the photo on my online album at
http://longtown19.magix.net/album
Its the last one in the album of photos of Brampton. You should be able to download it from there.
cheers
robbiesmum
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Thank you, nice collection of photographs.
Incidentally my direct 10x great grandfather John Steel is buried at Stapleton with his family. I have visited the grave