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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Caernarvonshire => Topic started by: laren on Tuesday 15 July 14 06:22 BST (UK)
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Hi,
I'm wondering which groups (family and/or local history) cover the area of Porthmadog??
As part of a WW1 project I'm working on, I have some information about a Porthmadog native, Llewelyn JONES, who served in the AIF. I'd like to find more information about him and also provide information I've found to any descendents.
Cheers,
Michelle
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Hi
Know somebody from a group working on a WW1 project, Porthmadog area. If you send me a PM with your e-mail address, I can pass it on.
Did he survive the war ? The name does not seem to appear on a poor picture that I have of the name plaque on Porthmadog war memorial.
Do you know the date of birth ?
Emyr
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Hi
On further investigation found AIF stands for Australian Imperial Force and that they have a website. Gives Llewelyn's next of kin as Mrs Margaret Jones, 51 East Avenue, Port Maddocks(Porthmadog).
Will make further enquiries.
Emyr
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Hi
On further investigation found AIF stands for Australian Imperial Force and that they have a website. Gives Llewelyn's next of kin as Mrs Margaret Jones, 51 East Avenue, Port Maddocks(Porthmadog).
Will make further enquiries.
Emyr
Dear Emyr,
Thanks for the response. Sorry about the AIF confusion, force of habit.
I have a fair bit about the person in question, because he was in the AIF, I have his full service record. Yes, he did survive the war and I'd like to track down any relatives. I have a photo of him and I know how much that might mean to someone looking into his history.
Quite a few natives of the British Isles served in the AIF, always worth checking there if you can't find them in British records. In the research project I am doing, of the five identified, 2 were not Australian by birth.
Your help is much appreciated.
Cheers,
Michelle
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Hi
Will send e-mail today to my contact within local group working on WW2 project.
Have found some info, including the fact that Llewelyn had a brother in the Australian Army too!
The next of kin, Margaret Jones, listed on AIF website, was his widowed mother; the father, Robert Jones having died aged 57 in 1913. Margaret died in 1921 aged 65. They're buried at Moelygest Cemetery, Porthmadog. Inscription on gravestone also refers to an Elizabeth Ellen Dowdney, died 1915, aged 35, and buried at Streatham Park Cemetery, London.
1901 and 1911 Census family living at The Slate Works, Portmadoc; only one of the children at home, Henry (Harry) Owen Jones, aged 25. Occupation of father - foreman at slate works; Harry Engineer Manager at General Engineers Founders. They've had 7 children, all still alive in 1911. Father born Bangor, Caernarvonshire; Mother Llanfair PG, Anglesey.
In the Cambrian News 17/03/1916 there is an article about people from Porthmadog area serving in the war, including pictures of some of them, including Private Owen Jones, which I assume is that of Robert(Bob) Owen Jones, third son of Robert and Robert Jones:
Private BOB OWEN JONES,
Australian Army Medical Corps,
Third son of the late Mr Robert Jones, Slateworks, and Mrs Jones, 51 East Avenue, Portmadoc. joined the Australian Forces early last year and is now a dispenser on the staff of No 2 Australian General Hospital, Cairo, Egypt. Also the other 3 sons are doing their little bit for their country.
Sapper E (Evan) Arthur Jones the eldest son is a telegraphist with the Royal Engineers and has done service in Belgium and France.
Mr Harry (Henry) Owen Jones, the second son, is on munition work with a London engineering firm.
The youngest son, Llewelyn Jones is serving on board a Liverpool liner.
North Wales Chronicle 05/01/1917:
Mr Llewelyn Jones, third(should read fourth) son of the late Mr Robert Jones, slate works Portmadoc, who has joined the Australian contingent, visited his widowed mother at Portmadoc this week, prior to proceeding to the front.
Cambrian News 20/09/1918:
HOME ON LEAVE.- Among those home on leave are Capt. Emrys Hughes, Morfa Bychan; Ptes. John Williams, Arvonia, High street; Owen Jones Griffith, Chapel street; Llewelyn Jones and Robert Owen Jones (Australians), East avenue.
Besides the 4 sons there were 3 daughters, Lizzie E Jones (presumably the Elizaeth Ellen Dowdney mentioned on gravestone - correct age), Maggie and Christiana.
Will make further enquiries re possible descendents. If that does not prove fruitful, I'll send letter to local paper.
Emyr
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Hi
Local History Group I referred to was an informal small group of friends who undertook a project concerned only with the 8 servicemen killed in WW1, whose names are recorded on the War Memorial at Pentrefelin, 3 miles from Porthmadog.
A letter I sent to a regional weekly newspaper was published week Thursday, but unfortunately they did not publish my contact details. They have republished this Thursday, including contact details. No replies so far (Saturday pm).
Have spoken to the author of a book about Porthmadog Foundries, soon to be published. One of the brothers, Henry, is recorded in the 1911 Census as being an 'Engineer Manager' at a 'General Engineers Founders'. He's going to check to see if he's got any info on Henry.
It's quite possible that they moved away from the area after the war. Henry could have stayed on in London after the war. Elizabeth died in London, 1915. In 1910 Christiana was appointed Assistant Mistress at Tywyn Church School, Merionethshire. Is it possible that Llewelyn (Llewellyn) and Robert stayed in, or returned, to Australia. Robert's AIF website record, shows an address in Australia, but lists his mother's name as next of kin, with address in Porthmadog.
Have you got info re Robert's service record with the AIF ?. There is a Robert Owen Jones named on the Porthmadog War Memorial, but it's not 'our' Robert.
When I'm next in Caernarfon, I'll check the post war Electoral Rolls for Porthmadog Urban District, to see if I can spot any of the family.
Emyr
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Hi
Report in Cambrian News 01/08/1919:
"The marriage of Sergt. Robert Owen Jones, Australian Army Medical Corps, son of Mrs Jones and the late Mr Robert Jones, Slate Works, Portmadoc, and Miss Elsie Lloyd Hart ................
..... Sergt and Mrs Jones spent their honeymoon at Penrhyndeudraeth amongst their relatives and friends, prior to their departure for Australia."
The wedding took place in Penrhyndeudraeth, where the bride lived (3mls from Porthmadog). The bride's late parents and numerous relatives are named. Only relatives of the bridegroom that are named are his mother, late father, and ..."a sister of his (Mrs Lewis and her husband, Dolgelley)."
Emyr
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Hi
Robert Owen Jones died in Australia in November 1946, according to notices in Newcastle Morning Herald and Miners' Advocate, 16th November 1946.
JONES. The friends of MRS ELSIE LLOYD JONES and FAMILY, of 47 Mackie-avenue, New Lambton, are invited to attend the Funeral of her dearly loved husband and their father, ROBERT OWEN, to move from our Private Chapel, 21 Darby-street, Newcastle, Tomorrow (Sunday) Afternoon, at 2.15 o'clock, for the Crematorium, Beresfield.
WOOD COFFIL LIMITED
Funeral Directors.
Also:
LODGE FRATERNITY No. 405
U.G.L. of N.S.W.
JONES.- The Officers and Members of the above Lodge are invited to attend the Funeral of the late Brother ROBERT OWEN JONES. For particulars see Family Notice.
G. TAYLOR W.M.
Also similar notice by :SEDGWICK MARK LODGE No. 75
Also:
JONES. - November 15, 1946, at Sydney, ROBERT OWEN, ex-Captain 1st and 2nd A.I.F. and Cavalry Field Ambulance, beloved husband of Elsie Lloyd Jones, and loved father of Nancy and Bobby of 47 Mackie-avenue, New Lambton.
Perhaps descendants of Robert, if traceable, can provide info re descendants of his siblings.
No response to newspaper letter to date - 15:25 04/08/2014 over here.
Emyr
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Hi,
Can't trace Evan A Jones after the war. He'd been promoted to a post at Birmingham General Post office in 1903. He might have returned to Birmingham.
Henry graduated as a Mechanical Engineer in 1907. In 1919 he was appointed to a senior position in a large chemical works on Teesside. I'd assumed that he had been exempted from the Forces because of working in a munitions factory. Now find that as a 15 year old he had an accident which necessitated amputation of a leg.
Llewelyn was a seaman on a Liverpool liner; might have returned to that occupation after the war, basing himself in Liverpool, if, as it appears, that there was no close family in Porthmadog after mother's death in 1921. I have access online to Welsh newspapers up to 1919, but no later. When I visit the archives in Caernarfon I'll check local newspapers for Mother's obituary; might give info re location of her children. It would appear that Robert had moved to Australia before the war, and that was the reason he was in the AIF. Wonder whether Llewelyn joined AIF with intention of remaining in Australia.
Christiana took a teaching post in Tywyn in 1910, and is a 'boarder' there in 1911 Census.
Maggie married D J Lewis, Parliament House, Dolgellau, in 1916; wedding at Wesleyan Chapel in Liverpool. Best man was Richard Barnett, Secretary of Merioneth Education Committee. Maggie was appointed Education Committee Nurse in 1914(?).
Have posted on Merionethshire Board re. Maggie and Christiana.
Have you tried to trace descendants of Robert in Australia ?
Emyr
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Hi
Report in Cambrian News 01/08/1919:
"The marriage of Sergt. Robert Owen Jones, Australian Army Medical Corps, son of Mrs Jones and the late Mr Robert Jones, Slate Works, Portmadoc, and Miss Elsie Lloyd Hart ................
..... Sergt and Mrs Jones spent their honeymoon at Penrhyndeudraeth amongst their relatives and friends, prior to their departure for Australia."
The wedding took place in Penrhyndeudraeth, where the bride lived (3mls from Porthmadog). The bride's late parents and numerous relatives are named. Only relatives of the bridegroom that are named are his mother, late father, and ..."a sister of his (Mrs Lewis and her husband, Dolgelley)."
Emyr
Thanks for that. I will try and get a copy of the original report. FYI, a transcription of their wedding certificate is in his WW1 service record.
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Hi
Robert Owen Jones died in Australia in November 1946, according to notices in Newcastle Morning Herald and Miners' Advocate, 16th November 1946.
JONES. The friends of MRS ELSIE LLOYD JONES and FAMILY, of 47 Mackie-avenue, New Lambton, are invited to attend the Funeral of her dearly loved husband and their father, ROBERT OWEN, to move from our Private Chapel, 21 Darby-street, Newcastle, Tomorrow (Sunday) Afternoon, at 2.15 o'clock, for the Crematorium, Beresfield.
WOOD COFFIL LIMITED
Funeral Directors.
Also:
LODGE FRATERNITY No. 405
U.G.L. of N.S.W.
JONES.- The Officers and Members of the above Lodge are invited to attend the Funeral of the late Brother ROBERT OWEN JONES. For particulars see Family Notice.
G. TAYLOR W.M.
Also similar notice by :SEDGWICK MARK LODGE No. 75
Also:
JONES. - November 15, 1946, at Sydney, ROBERT OWEN, ex-Captain 1st and 2nd A.I.F. and Cavalry Field Ambulance, beloved husband of Elsie Lloyd Jones, and loved father of Nancy and Bobby of 47 Mackie-avenue, New Lambton.
Perhaps descendants of Robert, if traceable, can provide info re descendants of his siblings.
No response to newspaper letter to date - 15:25 04/08/2014 over here.
Emyr
I will definately be following up locally, now that we know Robert came back to Australia. And I suspect Llewelyn may have as well.
Thanks for all the follow up.
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Hello Michelle,
Robert Owen Jones was the grandfather of my husband Lloyd Walter Taylor. I have researched his family history quite extensively and am currently focused on the Jones side from Porthmadog. I am at present researching the period he served in the two world wars.
I do not know a great deal about his family in Wales and would appreciate any information you can provide. I am very happy to provide you with information regarding his family in Australia. His son Robert Anwyl Lloyd Hart Jones (my husband's uncle) passed away on the 28 February 2014 and his daughter Nancy Lloyd Hart Taylor (nee Jones) my husband's mother predeceased her brother on the 11 April 2012.
I am most interested in anything you can share on Robert Owen Jones and his family. So far I have only been able to track his history back to his service in WWI, so I am particularly interested in his life and family in Porthmadog and his decision to migrate to Australia. I would be happy to share with you any information I may have that would be of interest to you regarding his life and family in Australia.
Regards
Colleen Taylor
Brisbane Australia.
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Hello Michelle,
Robert Owen Jones was the grandfather of my husband Lloyd Walter Taylor. I have researched his family history quite extensively and am currently focused on the Jones side from Porthmadog. I am at present researching the period he served in the two world wars.
I do not know a great deal about his family in Wales and would appreciate any information you can provide. I am very happy to provide you with information regarding his family in Australia. His son Robert Anwyl Lloyd Hart Jones (my husband's uncle) passed away on the 28 February 2014 and his daughter Nancy Lloyd Hart Taylor (nee Jones) my husband's mother predeceased her brother on the 11 April 2012.
I am most interested in anything you can share on Robert Owen Jones and his family. So far I have only been able to track his history back to his service in WWI, so I am particularly interested in his life and family in Porthmadog and his decision to migrate to Australia. I would be happy to share with you any information I may have that would be of interest to you regarding his life and family in Australia.
Regards
Colleen Taylor
Brisbane Australia.
Dear Colleen,
I'm in Australia as well, in Newcastle. I haven't done a great deal about his life in Wales as I'm concentrating on his WW1 experiences.
I've PM'd you with further info.
CHeers,
Laren
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Laren,
Thank you so much for the additional info provided in your PM. I am unable to reply using the RootsChat PM system. Therefore I have sent some info re Robert Owen Jones to your gmail address.
Best regards
Colleen
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Hi Colleen
You can usse the PM system after three posts; so if you do one further post you should be able to send a PM.
Emyr appears to have done quite a bit of research on the family; I am sure he will be around shortly.
Nesta
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Hi Michelle,
This WW1/AIF Project your working on; is this your own personal project or part of something bigger ?
Got no replies to my letters to the papers or other postings on Rootschat re. the family.
Hi Colleen,
Did Llewelyn, Robert's brother, also emigrate to Australia ? Do you know anything about Robert's parents-in-law ? Do you know where the name 'Anwyl' in 'Robert Anwyl Lloyd Hart Jones, comes from? Have you any info re the other children of Robert and Margaret Jones ?
Hi Nesta
Here I am.
Been living in Pentrefelin nearly 2 years now; we still haven't met.
Emyr
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Hi Emyr (waves)
I know - do you know we have probably passed in the street !!
You're local to around here aren't you - if so you may have known my dad, Owen Pritchard .....also known as Now - he used to work with BT. He would have been 91 this year he was quite the local historian and he and Robert Cadwalader used to go and give lectures about Criccieth; dad had lots of photos.
We must meet up !
Nesta
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Robert Anwyl lloyd Hart Jones was my husbands Uncle - The name Robert was from his fathers side, Anwyl, Lloyd and Hart came from his mothers side of the family. I have no idea what happened to Llewelyn . His war records state that he returned to Australia and was discharged on the 2 February, 1919 besides that I have no idea.
Regards
Colleen Taylor
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MY grandfather - who was in the Australian Light Infantry enlisted in Melbourne in 1915. Fought the war in Europe visited his family in Wales, and then returned to Australia. He then returned to the UK in (I think 1920) and married my grandmother - they did not return to Australia .
I had always thought that he had left the Australian Army in the UK and then returned until I found his war record and saw that he had returned to Australia. I knew that they had married in 1921 so then trawled the passenger lists between 1919 (when he arrived back) and 1921 when he married and found him !.
Perhaps its worth looking through the passenger lists for Llewelyn
Nesta
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Hi
Reason for asking where the 'Anwyl' came from, was that it suggested that there was a connection with the 'Anwyl' family. There is. For time being I'll try to set up a link to 'Dictionary of Welsh Biography' ; don't know if it will work ! Have info on the Lloyd Hart family and their connection with the Welsh gentry.
http://yba.llgc.org.uk/en/s-ANWY-PAR-1500.html
Emyr