RootsChat.Com
Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Columbanus on Friday 18 July 14 03:59 BST (UK)
-
I'm searching for any information about Ada Lovell who married George Colebrooke on September 10, 1896. Does anyone know if she was connected with the William Cody Wild West Show in London in 1887 or in any of his other shows in the late 1800's. I believe that this Ada Lovell was the daughter of Duriah Lovell born about 1838 in Hendon and who was married to Mary Anne Simpson.
See section 8 of this article on the history of the Lovell family:
http://www.gypsyjib.com/page/Lovell+family+of+Barnes+Surrey
It would be great if anyone has information about who was present at Ada & George's wedding in 1896. They are both mentioned in the Census of 1911 along with their 5 children.
Many thanks
Columbanus
-
In 1871 Ada is living with her aunt Mignonette Lovel and father Duriah, and sisters/cousins? Emily, Ada, Katie and Clara. No mother present. 1881 census she is still with her father and is a scholar. Clara and other family members are there. 1891 it is just Ada and her father and for her it says no occupation. All three censuses have them living in Barnes Surrey. No indication that Ada was involved with Bill Cody shows.
I note there is an anomaly with Ada's age in 1911 census, and she and George have moved to Scarborough and he has changed his occupation from Commission agent to Dental mechanic but his place of birth Tunbridge Wells, and age remain the same. Ada is probably lowering her age because she is older than George and her place of birth is good as are the children's birth place of Barnes which matches up with where she is living in the 1871/81/91 census.
I have seen the website where someone in America is claiming her as the daughter of an Indian chief but this does not seem to be this Ada Lovell. I can't follow their reasoning. The easiest way to settle it would be to buy the marriage cert from the GRO that would give Ada's father's name and occupation
Marriages September 1/4 1896
George Colebrooke
Ada Lovell
Richmond, S.
vol 2a page 827
-
Thanks for the quick reply Crisane. Yes, did see that there is a question about Ada somehow being related to the Sioux Tribe in South Dakota. It's possible, that there might be another Ada out there but unlikely as Ada Lovell seems to be the only one with that first name married to a George Colebrooke from Tunbridge Wells. There are a lot of George Colebrooke's out there too and there is a ships manifest showing a George Colebrooke heading for Wyoming (one of the places Buffalo Bill hung out) in 1890. Another strange thing is that there is a town called Lovell in Wyoming but don't know which branch of the Lovell clan established it in the mid/late 1800's or if they have any connection to Ada Lovell.
Thanks too for the other information about her family.
You are quite correct: the only way to resolve this would be to obtain a copy of the marriage lines (a to-do item) which will give the date and place of birth of George Colebrooke and also the names of Ada's relatives present.
-
Hi
do you want the information and references from the 1871/81/91 and 1901 censuses?
The marriage certificate will Ada and George's father's names and occupations and witnesses names who may or may not be related.
-
Another little problem with George is that in the 1871 census there are 2 born Tunbridge Wells. One George William Key Colebrook (no e) born 1870 with parents George Nelson and Harriet Phyllis and the other George Colebrooke 1868 with parents Alfred and Esther. Now when looking for births on FreeBMD there is a George William H but with an 'e' registered 1871 but only a George Colbrooke/Colbrook registered in Chichester March 1/4 1869 so possible born late in the Dec 1/4 1868. So the e is added and dropped depending who is writing the information. The 1869 parents Alfred and Esther look a better bet.
-
Managed to find those Census reports as our local library has free access to Ancestry - socialism lives!
Yes, was aware of two George's born in Tunbridge Wells but don't think that George William Colebrook was the one as he has no association with Scarborough. The George living at Asquith Avenue, Scarborough named one of his sons Alfred and it is likely that this son was named after George's father Alfred - so typical a thing in the Victorian era - although he simply might have been named after Prince Albert. So George's parents might be Alfred and Esther...however, the marriage or birth certificates would confirm that (more to-dos!).
Ada Colebrooke is an enigma especially due to her whereabouts from 1883 to 1896 or from the age of 21 (assuming her birth was 1862) to age 34 when she was supposedly married (in 1896). How did she survive without an income or even a profession for 13 years? The problem she presents is that 34 seems a bit old for marriage in Victorian times when the norm was to marry in the late teens? (Queen Victoria as you may know, set a national trend by marrying Albert when she was 21). Do appreciate your sidelights on this research...
-
Ada Colebrooke is an enigma especially due to her whereabouts from 1883 to 1896 or from the age of 21 (assuming her birth was 1862) to age 34 when she was supposedly married (in 1896). How did she survive without an income or even a profession for 13 years? The problem she presents is that 34 seems a bit old for marriage in Victorian times when the norm was to marry in the late teens? (Queen Victoria as you may know, set a national trend by marrying Albert when she was 21). Do appreciate your sidelights on this research...
Not many single women back then had a profession - apart from the obvious! (Oldest profession!) ;D
She would probably have been the house keeper at home, in the absence of her mother.
And that is a common myth about marrying as teenagers! ;D
I think Stan came up with average ages at marriage, on a post a few months ago?
-
My thoughts also KGarrard.
Even my mother born 1908 being the youngest of only two girls in a family of 9 was expected to stay home and look after her parents. Her mother actively interfered to break up a couple of relationships. Mum married at the age of 30.
-
My thanks to KGarrad and Crisane for their thoughts on the age Victorians married. One thing discovered in this time-detective hobby is not to make assumptions but to examine every possibility.
The name of the game here is to find out the maiden name of the Ada who married George Colebrooke in 1896 and the only way to do that is to check the marriage certificate. Someone has already found out this information as they stated that Duriah Lovell (Ada Lovell's father) was named on that marriage certificate:
http://www.gypsyjib.com/search/everything/george%20colebrooke?contains=george%20colebrooke
However they didn't mention the father of George Colebrooke, so if anyone out there has that certificate do let me know as this will prove which of the several George Colebrooke's mentioned in Ancestry is the correct one. The George Colebrooke mentioned on the 1911 Census is perhaps, the same one who married Ada Lovell but we won't know for certain until Ada's maiden name is confirmed.
The troubling part of all this is the sheer volume of consistent family stories which connect Ada "N" to north American First Nations Tribes and how Ada "N" described herself as related to either Sioux, Pawnee, or Cheyenne tribes (all depending on who's telling the story).
There can be a lot of value in family lore as you know. Speaking from a personal example, my father told me his mother received 7 telegrams from the Mercantile Marine relating to her brother who's ships were targeted by German U-Boats during WW1. Naysayers discounted this story for many years until recently a distant cousin found the information in WW1 records at Kew and Newfoundland and proved that my dad's uncle was on board a number of ill-fated ships and unfortunately lost his life on the 7th ship when it was attacked in the Ionian Sea in 1918. I digress but hope this example shows the importance of family stories...
I know that in the case of Ada "N" naysayers galore are asserting that there is no American First Nation connection whatsoever but I am hoping that someone somewhere has the information proving or disproving the link definitively.
-
My thanks to KGarrad and Crisane for their thoughts on the age Victorians married. One thing discovered in this time-detective hobby is not to make assumptions but to examine every possibility.
The name of the game here is to find out the maiden name of the Ada who married George Colebrooke in 1896 and the only way to do that is to check the marriage certificate.
So, stating the obvious, buy the marriage certificate! ;D
Just £9.25 from GRO!
-
Ada was my great grandmother, please let me know how I can help
-
The Ada that you are discussing here is my Grandmother and was married to George Colebrooke and they did live in Scarborough
I have a copy of Ada's marriage certificate
-
Hi, my wife originally from Scarborough, is also a great grandchild of Ada.
I don't know if the William Cody thing is correct and think that Ada might be related to the Lee family of Knotting Hill.
Cheers
Columbanus
-
Can I ask which one of Ada's children was your wife grandparent? Mine was Dorothy
-
I also remember stories of the circus - also I meant to say Ada was my great grandmother not my Grandma
-
Buffalo Bill's Wild West Show came to my town too. A Native American participant allegedly fathered a child during his sojourn in the town. A local person who has studied Buffalo Bill's shows said he'd been unable to trace the supposed child and that there was no foundation to the tale. This legend may be repeated in every town the show visited.
-
I also remember stories of the circus - also I meant to say Ada was my great grandmother not my Grandma
William, and his son William's name is on a war memorial in Scarborough.
-
I do remember my dad taking about uncle Bill.
-
I do remember my dad taking about uncle Bill.
His son Jack immigrated to eastern Canada from Scarborough. Jack is now deceased but his sister Kathleen is still living in Scarborough (in her 90's I believe).
-
I do remember my dad taking about uncle Bill.
His son Jack immigrated to eastern Canada from Scarborough. Jack is now deceased but his sister Kathleen is still living in Scarborough (in her 90's I believe).
What's your take on Ada: was she an American Indian who came over from South Dakota with Bill Cody and his show or was she one of the Lee family?
-
I have her birthday certificate and definitely born here but I do remember my dad taking about a circus connecting my grandma had mentioned so maybe she did join the circus which would explain her marrying later but I assumed she stayed at home to look after her dad
-
I have her birthday certificate and definitely born here but I do remember my dad taking about a circus connecting my grandma had mentioned so maybe she did join the circus which would explain her marrying later but I assumed she stayed at home to look after her dad
Correct about the 'circus connection' and Jack Colebrooke, my wife's dad, said that she worked for William Cody but not sure what her job was. This makes sense as Ada's family had horses and access to horses so perhaps they supplied Cody with horses? Knotting Hill wasn't all that far from Earl's Court, where the Cody Show was held.
From past experience of researching genealogy, relatives are often mis-quoted and because Ada perhaps was employed by Cody it didn't make her an American Indian which is the common opinion in the family today. As you pointed out she was born in England and was related to the Lovell family.
Have you seen this:
http://www.gypsyjib.com/page/Lovell+family+of+Barnes+Surrey
Ada is mentioned:
"Duriah’s daughter Ada Lovell b 1862-3 in Notting Hill (age 28 at marriage in 1896 and living at 86 Railway St, Barnes), married George Colebrooke on 10/9/1896 in Richmond. Ada died 19/6/1938 aged 69. Duriah Lovell is a 'General Dealer' at Ada's marriage."
There can be no doubt that Ada was a Lovell which is really interesting.
Best Regards
Colum
-
I hadn't seen that article so that's great - thank you. I agree that Ada was a Lovell. I need to check some of my stores computer data as I have a photograph of the family bible and I'd like to share photos of my Grandma, Ada's daughter Dorothy. I'd really like to understand why they went to Scarborough, do you know?
-
I hadn't seen that article so that's great - thank you. I agree that Ada was a Lovell. I need to check some of my stores computer data as I have a photograph of the family bible and I'd like to share photos of my Grandma, Ada's daughter Dorothy. I'd really like to understand why they went to Scarborough, do you know?
Family lore has it that he was offered a job in Scarborough as a dentist. They lived, as you probably know, in Ewing Street, Scarborough.
You've probably seen this:
1911 Census: Scarborough, Yorkshire(North Riding) England
George Colebrooke b. Tunbridge Wells, Kent age 44
Ada Colebrooke b. Notting Hill London age 41
George Lewis Colebrooke b. Barnes Surrey age 13
Dorothy Colebrook b. Barnes Surrey age 11
William Ewart Colebrooke b. Barnes Surrey age 8
Kity Colebrooke b. Ealing Middlesex age 5
Alfred Colebrooke b. Scarborough Yorkshire age 4
-
I know he worked as a dental mechanic. I hadn't seen that crsbus as I haven't been researching for a while and haven't looked at 1911 census yet so it was lovely to see that. I'm just conscious that back than it would have been a very long way to have moved to from London and wondered how he found the job and why Scarborough - did he have family connections there?
-
My grand parents Dorothy (nee Colebrooke) and Arthur Gibbs
-
My dad Clive and his brother Arthur Gibbs and a baby me
-
I believe Kitty was in Cleethorpes as that is where her daughter lives and where my grandparents were - my email is (*) if you'd like to correspond directly
(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
-
I believe Kitty was in Cleethorpes as that is where her daughter lives and where my grandparents were - my email is (*) if you'd like to correspond directly
(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
Hi, it looks like they've removed your email address and suggest using the Personal Message system. I'm not sure how that works, are you? Once we figure it out, yes, we could correspond directly...
-
Help is available on the "Help" button! ;)
See: http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
RootsChat is an Open forum, which means that any posts can potentially be seen via internet searches (such as Google, Bing, etc).
Most people find RootsChat via an internet search! ;D
-
My Great Grandmother was Ada Lovell and she was married to my Great Grandfather William Colebrooke. My Granddad, also William had 4 children, one of whom was my Mother Kathleen who died in January 2019. We were always led to believe our G.Grandma Ada came over with Buffalo Bill's Circus. I am fascinated to see distant relatives on this page and look forward to hearing from you all.
-
Edit to last post, my Great Grandfather was George Colebrooke, not William.