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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Angus (Forfarshire) => Topic started by: lesliebd9 on Saturday 19 July 14 01:33 BST (UK)
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I am researching William Taylor. His death record is the line between Arbroath and St Vigians. I cannot figure it out. He married Margaret Oldman and spent most of his life between St Vigians and Arbroath. He was a shoemaker. Grateful for any help.
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St Cyrus perhaps?
What is the heading for the column where these place names are written?
You say this is his death record? Depending on date of death, you have his death certifcate? Woldn't that give you all of the identifying information to prove it is the right chap?
Do you know where St Cyrus is? If it is written alongside St Vigian and Arbroath it must be near by. Are you questioning the location? Perhpas he died away from home, or moved there before death?
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Think you are right. His other death notice says Linsinis. That has me stumped as well!
I include another photo:
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I added a little to my previous reply. :)
That appears to be a burial record. Do you have his death certificate?
You probably need to do a bit of detective work to find the locations of all these places. Death records may not be accurate unless the informant knew exactly where the deceased was born - it could be an approximation.
Linsinis may be a place within the parish of St Cyrus for example. I am using this as an example rather than a fact. ;)
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My immediate reaction was that it was St Cyrus too.
St Cyrus is about 18 miles north of Arbroath.
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Any clue on Linsinis Dave? :-\ Can't see mention of it on Genuki and am wondering if it might be a farmstead. :-\
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Actually I think that is Linsiris .... or ... even Sinsiris.
What is William's date of death?
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I reckon it's Sinsirus, just a phoenetic kind of spelling of St Cyrus...... Sin Syrus .... Sinsirus.
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He died in 1835 in Arbroath.
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I reckon it's Sinsirus, just a phoenetic kind of spelling of St Cyrus...... Sin Syrus .... Sinsirus.
Of course! That is so logical and obvious now that you've pointed it out! :)
I've just loaded up some old maps of the area and was about to trawl through them for this mystery place. :)
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Thank you all. It makes more sense then anything I came up with!
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Definitely St Cyrus.
Birth / Baptism recorded on ScotlandsPeople as 24 August 1760 in St Cyrus, Kincardineshire.
Father James Taylor - no mother mentioned.
GROS ref: 267/00 0010 0133
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I have found that one on Scotland's People. I have found his marriage to Margaret Oldman:
02/06/1793 TAYLOR WILLIAM MARGARET OLDMAN/ M ST VIGEANS /ANGU
I am really looking for their daughter Mary Ann born about 1800 in Arbroath/St Vigeans and any siblings she might have had. I cannot find her any place until she marries:
12/09/1829 DORWARD ALEXANDER MARY ANN/TAYLOR M ST VIGEANS /ANGUS
And have tracked her until her death:
1875 TAYLOR MARY ANN DORWARD F 75 ROW OR RHU /DUNBARTON
It makes me crazy that I cannot find the records of her birth. Any suggestions? Thank you!!
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As Scotland's People does not list any children of William Taylor and Margaret Oldman, the obvious inference is that if they were baptised, then either they were not baptised in the Church of Scotland or the Roman Catholic Church, or if they were, then no record has survived.
This is all before the founding of the Free Church in 1843, so it won't be in the Free Church registers.
There were some other breakaway sects and denominations before the Free Church. Many of the surviving registers of these are in the National Archives Records of Scotland www.nas.gov.uk. They are not accessible online; you would have to go in person or get someone to go for you to the NRS in Edinburgh or to one of the other archives that have access to the NRS' digital images (Glasgow, Aberdeen and Inverness, among others).
Or they might have been Episcopalians. The surviving Episcopal registers are still with individual churches, or possibly diocesan or other archives.
The University of Dundee Archives http://arccat.dundee.ac.uk/ have ecclesiastical collections including the Brechin Diocese of the Scottish Episcopal Church, the Glasite and Sandemanian Churches and the Arbroath Methodist Church.
The other possibility is that the baptism was never recorded in the first place, in which case no amount of searching is ever going to find it.
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Thank you. I have two additional questions. I was under the impression it was required by law that you had to register births? Also was it likely that someone would start C of S and then stray to a sect and then come back? Seems unusual.
A bit of background if you are interested...I collect antique textiles (samplers) done by little girls. I specialized in Scottish. It gives me huge pleasure to do the genealogy on the girls and give them a second life from birth to death. I had a sampler done by the schoolmaster at Forgandenny and recently found her sisters sampler at auction. I was able to reunite them and that made me very happy. I love learning more about the social histories of the nineteenth century in Scotland.
Sorry if that was moe then you wanted to know. Thank you for your help.
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I was under the impression it was required by law that you had to register births?
Not until the introduction of statutory civil registration in 1855.
Also was it likely that someone would start C of S and then stray to a sect and then come back?
Quite possible. There were so many sects and minor denominations, many of which didn't last very long!
However a broader answer is that in theory the Church of Scotland was supposed to record all baptisms and marriages, irrespective of whatever denomination the people involved belonged to. This did sometimes happen, but it depended on the people themselves tellling the Session Clerk, and the clerk bothering to write it down. So you do sometimes find the events of other denominations being recorded in the C of S registers if there was a conscientious Session Clerk and the parish was small enough for all such events to come to his attention. Just because some of a couple's children are in the C of S records and others are not is not evidence that the parents left the C of S and subsequently came back.
I collect antique textiles (samplers) done by little girls.
Interesting! Do you publish the results anywhere online where one could check to see if these is one stitched by a relative?
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You are very patient and I am grateful.
www.antiquesamplers.org
You have to sign up, but it is just to keep the trash out. Where is your family from? I have over 400 Scottish samplers.
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You are very patient and I am grateful.
www.antiquesamplers.org
You have to sign up, but it is just to keep the trash out. Where is your family from? I have over 400 Scottish samplers.
They're from all over - see my signature line below for the list (except the English one - that's not mine but a friend's family).
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So, many of your names are in the wrong locale. IE: Cruickshank
Jane Cruickshank:
Cruickshank and Lillias Mearns of Aberdeenshire were married in 1790. They had seven children: William (1792), Alexander (1795), Jean/Jane (1797), George (1799), Lilly (1801), Margaret Ellen (1804), Benjamin (1805).
Amelia Forbes Cruickshanks:
Amelia Cruickshank Bridge of Earn 1814 Rev.d I Beatson
Genealogy
Amelia Forbes Cruickshanks was the oldest daughter of Alexander Cruickshanks, a weaver at the Bridge of Earn, and Helenor Grieg, born 25 September, christened 2 October 1803 in Dunbarney, Perthshire. Siblings included James (1805), Helen (1807) and Ann (1810).
Amelia married John Cowans, a widowed baker. While we cannot pin the down exact date of the marriage, we do know that his first wife, Janet Mill, died after the 1841 census. The 1851 Scottish Census lists the household of John Cowans (63), a baker employing four men in the town of Bridge of Earn. Included in the household are Amelea (43), James (21), John (16, a draper's assistant), Mary (14), David (12) and Ann (4). Ann is Amelia's daughter; the other children were from John's first marriage. Ann died in 1879 at the age of 74; cause of death is listed as circumstances resulting from senility. John Cowans died in 1888.
We've also located Reverend James Beatson, of Kirkpottie, Perthshire, who died 1820 and is buried in the Old Dunbarney Cemetery. He is buried with his father Revd. David Beatson and his mother, Amelia Forbes. We presume our Amelia was named for this woman.
2 Paterson's one from Melrose and one from Edinburgh. Wyllie from Brechin in Angus...
MARGRET WYLLIE MM 1804 TENEMENTS OF CALDHAM
Genealogy
Margret was born December 11 and baptized on December 18, 1791. Her father, John Wyllie, was a mason. Her mother's name was Catharine Deis.
Records indicate that on May 25, 1805 Margret was contracted to marry David Ross, a blacksmith, in Brechin.
Period
Brechin, Angus
Additional
There is a companion sampler done by Agnes Allardice, owned by the National Trust of Scotland, that has been made into a fire screen and is currently on display at Culzean Castle. Both samplers list MM on the signature line, presumed to be their teacher.
AND
Margaret Wyllie born the y 1785
James Wyllie Margaret Webster
Genealogy
M. James Wyllie and his wife Margaret Webster did indeed have a daughter they named Margaret 12 July 1785 in Forfar Parish, Angusshire. James Wyllie's profession is entered as Writer. Another daughter, Isabel, was born 18 November 1783.
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Thank you!
The Wyllie ones are both mine.
John Wyllie was the younger brother of my 4th-great-grandfather, and James Wyllie was his second cousin.
Margaret Wyllie, daughter of John Wyllie and Catherine/Kathleen Deas/Deis, was born in Nether Tenements, Brechin on 11 December 1791 and baptised a week later in presence of the congregation. She married Alexander Young on 24 January 1823 in Brechin, and they had four of a family before Alexander died on 22 October 1832. Margaret herself died of cancer on 2 May 1876 at 14 Pearse Street, Brechin and she was buried in the Cathedral kirkyard at Brechin three days later. Her death was registered by her son John Guthrie Young. Apart from the birth/baptism and death of Alexander Young, I have seen all the birth/baptism, banns/marriages and death records of this family.
I will have to investigate the David Ross and Margaret Wyllie contract, of which I was unaware. 'My' Margaret would have been only 13 years old on the date of that contract, which is exceptionally young, though not impossible at that time. I do have a note that David Ross and Margaret Wyllie had four sons, David, Edwin, Alexander and William, all born at Slankeye, Fettercairn between 1807 and 1812.
Margaret Wyllie, daughter of James Wyllie and Margaret Webster, was born in Forfar on 12 July 1785 and baptised on the 18th. She did not marry, and died in Forfar on 22 January 1832, leaving a very informative will. She had a sister Isabella and six brothers. One of her brothers, William, was the father and grandfather of the quite well-known Victorian artists, William Morrison Wyllie and William Lionel Wyllie.
If you would like all the details I have to hand of either of these families, please PM me your direct e-mail address.
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I have just found a 1851 census record at Burn Smithy, Fettercairn, which lists Alexander Ross, 40, blacksmith, born Fettercairn and his mother Margaret Wyllie Ross, widow, aged 76, born Fettercairn. Alexander Ross, son of David Ross and Margaret Wyllie, was born at Slankeye on 9 August 1810. I think that is sufficient proof that the Margaret Wyllie who married David Ross in 1805 was not the then 13-year-old daughter of John Wyllie and Catherine Deas.
There is, however, a Margaret Wyllie, born at Slankeye, Fettercairn, in 1773, daughter of David Wyllie and Mary Taylor. I think it likely that this one is the wife of David Ross. I have been trying for some time, off and on, to connect this David Wyllie with my Wyllie family. There was a David Wyllie in Slankeye in 1732, who could have been this one's father.