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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: Anniel on Tuesday 22 July 14 07:06 BST (UK)
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One of my relatives have posted before about Alfred Miller. He was born in February 1859 and baptised in St.Peter's Church Liverpool on May 16th 1859. However, I am unable to find any official record of his birth, although I understand all births after 1837 had to be registered.
I do have a birth cert. for his sister, Susan Alice Miller and his brother Walter. Can anyone suggest any other way of finding the official record of his birth? I really am interested in his parents John Miller and Susan Stannard. This couple seem remiss as we have no record of their marriage or of Alfred's birth.
I would be grateful for any advice and comments as I have reached a brick wall with my Miller ancestors and have only got back as far as the 1850s with definitive information.
Thanks
Anniel
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Registration of births was not compulsory until, I think, 1874. :-\
However, have you considered the Alfred Miller registered in June quarter 1859 in Prescot Registration District, 8b, page 489?
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The suggestion from BumbleB is worth a closer look. I would also consider whether the couple may have been elsewhere at the time of Alfredīs birth so I would not rule out births in the right timeframe but another location. This could explain the delay before the baptism if he was born elsewhere and they waited till they returned home to christen him.
Where were the two siblings registered and when were they born?
Have you found the family in 1861?
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However, have you considered the Alfred Miller registered in June quarter 1859 in Prescot Registration District, 8b, page 489?
Yes I think so too. It ties in with his baptism on Lancs opc .....born 15 Feb 1859
www.lan-opc.org.uk/
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1861, the family are living at 8 Tenterden Street (Tenterden Arms, Beerhouse), which is the same street shown on Alfred's baptism entry. Elder brother William is said to be born West Derby, Alfred said to be born Liverpool.
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Baptism: 16 May 1859 St Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Alfred Miller - [Child] of John Miller & Susan
Born: 15 Feb 1859
Abode: Tenterden St
Occupation: Engine Fitter
Baptised by: W. H. Denny Curate
Bumble B - where does it say John and Susan were born in 1861 census
added - is she the one aged 28 b Scotland 1833( in St Martin in the Fields,Liverpool in 1861 )
if so - maybe the marriage to John Miller is in Scotland and that is why we can`t find it on freebmd ?
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John was from Devon and Susan from Suffolk.
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John was from Devon and Susan from Suffolk.
OK thanks Craclyn ...so not the Scotland born Susan ...so we should be able to find the marriage on BMD ?
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Thank you for your prompt and helpful replies. I had considered the birth in Prescot. I confess that I dropped the idea because Alfred was born in the first quarter of the year and the birth in Prescot was not registered until the April-June quarter. I can see now that I was wrong to dismiss the Prescot birth as that area is not so far from Liverpool. I should have realised that the fact that Alfred was not christened until May ties in with him being born in Prescot.I am currently in Australia but will return to UK next month, so I will get the Prescot birth cert. and see where that leads. I have Susan Alice's birth cert. with me and her birth was registered in Liverpool. Unfortunately, i do not have Williams record to hand.
Given the problems that I have encountered with the parents, i was probably bring overly careful over Alfred's birth.
The father, John Miller ( such a common name) gave his birthplace differently on censuses. He gave Lambeth Surrey, Plymouth,Devon and Liverpool. I assume that the enumerator heard Lambeth when John had said Plymouth or vice versa. I just cannot find hard evidence of where he was born c.1827.
I know his wife was Susan Stannard as that is shown on the birth certificates of their children.
I just want to explain that my Miller family is a nightmare once I get back to Alfred's parents.
Thanks and grateful for any ideas.
Anniel
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Anniel - is this Susans baptism
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NKSL-BS9
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Well I'm blowed if I can find the marriage but wonder if this is Susan in 1851 and could John Millard possibly be John Miller with the wrong age transcribed
Lower Gibbon St Ipswich
Elizabeth Westbrooks 45 widow born Chester Durham
Elizabeth Westbrooks 14 dau Dressmaker Ipswich
Jan Westbrooks 8 dau Ipswich
Susan Stannard 24 Dressmaker Visitor Ipswich
John Millard 39 Engineer born Plymouth Lodger
Alfred Millard 24 London Lodger
Isabella Stannard 24 Visitor Ipswich
Emma Stannard 7 Visitor Ipswich
HO107; Piece: 1800; Folio: 408; Page: 7
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as Susan Stannard and Isabella Stannard are both 24 and b Ipswich - was Susan a twin ??...I suppose it`s possible Isabella could be a sister in law ?
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It's a good bet that Isabella and Susan Stannard are sisters. The only Isabella I can see in other censuses was born in Capel and there is an 1824 baptism in nearby Copdock https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NB4H-Y9W parents William Stannard and Phoebe Read.
They seem to have had a number of children including a Susan baptised in 1827 in Brome (assuming it's the same William and Phoebe/Phebe) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/J7BN-LQT
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In 1841 there is a 12 year old Susanna Stannard in the household of Robert and Susannah Read in Ipswich. Could this be her?
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I would think the Prescot registered Alfred is a red herring. It is more likely to be this one (baptism from lan-opc) as the reg district for Windle is Prescot
Baptism: 26 Jun 1859 St Thomas, Eccleston, Lancashire, England
Alfred Miller - [Child] of James Miller & Mary
Born: 1 Mar 1859
Abode: Windle
Occupation: Bricksetter
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Thank you all so much for your input into my conundrum. I had never noticed before that Susan could have been a twin...fascinating.
Alfred's parents werre definitely John Milller and Susan Stannard. Apart from birth cerrts. For some of their children the census records show the family composition.
I just wish they had married and that would enable me to see who were their parents and their ages.
There must be lots of other people with my problem who cannot get further back with their research because of lack of records.
I am so pleased I joined this group with so many knowledgeable members.
Anniel
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sorry I think I phrased my reply badly. I was not doubting your Alfred's parentage - just trying to prove that the Prescot reg was not yours as the parents for the Prescot one were probably James & Mary
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My fault for not understanding what you meant! So this will mean that Alfred's full record of birth is still a mystery. John and Susan are a complete nightmare in genealogical terms!
Thanks for your reply.
Anniel
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I know what you mean about a nightmare. I too have a John Miller in the Liverpool/Ormskirk area - dead by son William's marriage in 1849. William in 1851 born Lancs place unknown, in 1861 'Goget' wherever that might be. dead before 1871. So I sympathise with you.
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I was a long time getting back to you all and in fact have done little or nothing about family history in the time since I was in Australia. However, yesterday, I came onto Rootschat via a Google enquiry and saw that a cousin of mine 9 at least we share the same great grandfather) had been enquiring about John Miller and Susan Stannard. I was interested to see that karenlee, who I think is an administrator , gave marriage details for Alice Miller. I was wondering how karenlee was able to see the records without purchasing a certificate..that was wonderful and I wonder how to do it?