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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Staffordshire => Topic started by: chrisaaaaa on Friday 25 July 14 16:17 BST (UK)
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I have a quandry following part of the tree, James Aspley (1872-1948) seems to have married Clara Harris in 1892 in West Brom.
However the children of the marriage cross the time when maiden names get added and the Maiden name Clive is used.
The family turn up at 3 Granby Road, Stockingford, Nuneaton, Warwickshire, England int he 1911 census. (Source Citation: Class: RG14; Piece: 18473. Ancestry.com. 1911 England Census... )
That return is a bit scrambled with boys called Jane and another called "Vo??", but the kids can all be worked out from the birth records. The wife is "Cle Jane Aspley"
If it were not for the Clive maiden name it would all look perfect. I cannot find any C J Clive marrying James Aspley.
Can anyone tell me where I have gone wrong - or explain why I am right?
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Perhaps she had been married before, to a Mr HArris
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And when it comes to sorting out names on any census, it is always best to look at the actual image, not rely on the transcription. I expect you will find the son is not called Jane at all, and that Vo is actually something else completely. If Clara is recorded as Cl, then possibly all the names are abbreviated, so look out for Wm or Saml or similar.
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on Ancestry there is also the marriage in 1892 giving Cara's fathers name as William Harris so I dont know where you are getting the maiden name of Clive from she was only 20 when she married John Aspley
Willow x
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Thansk so far,
I believe she was born a Harris in Dudley (d 1940 an Aspley in air raid)
Looking at later kids, eg Ethel J Aspley (1913-1995) the maiden name Clive appears.
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There is this marriage for an Emanuel Aspley with a possible wife Esther Clive
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/2DBZ-ZBB
The only Emanuel I am finding at the moment has a wife Keziah ::)
From CWGC for Clara Jane
http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/3156356/ASPLEY,%20CLARA%20JANE
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Looking at later kids, eg Ethel J Aspley (1913-1995) the maiden name Clive appears.
A tree on Ancestry has an Ethel J daughter of James and Clara Jane as being born in 1898 and dying in 1912 :-\
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I had not found the Esther Clive, but I cannot see Clara<->Esther I will give it a try, Keisha keeps coming up but with a different set of kids.
I had not thought of the war grave stuff for civilians before - I shall now!
The tree on ancestry with the other Ethel J is probably mine, I believe when she died in 1912 the next girl born got to carry the name. In 1911 Clara had had 9 kids with 4 dead, Ethel was just about to die and she had another on the way - wow.
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James/Clara and Emanuel/Keziah were christening children at the same church, are James & Emanuel related
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I think so, I have James Grandfather as Emanuel Aspley (1822-1894), he had loads of kids but I did not find an Emanuel, I am sure there is one...
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Looking at later kids, eg Ethel J Aspley (1913-1995) the maiden name Clive appears.
One of these later children , from the index, with mothers maiden name Clive, is a George P Aspley, bn and died both in 1916.
As your Clara would be 48 by then, it is more likely that these "Clive" children are not from the James/Clara couple. (not impossible, I know......)
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I agree with lizdb about looking at the original image, rather than the transcription. However, in this case it's not a lot of help - not sure how literate John was :-\ However, appears to have been married 18 years, 9 children, 5 of whom are still alive.
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It is hard to say about the fertiility up to late 40s, she seems to have had a kid every couple of years up till the last, he died pretty quick perhaps due to them knocking on a bit by then.
The clive maiden name appeared on all after 1911.
Maybe her mum remarried?
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She'd be even older by 1916! I think we can rule her out!
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I think that 'Esther' Clive could be a transcription error by the GRO.
There is a Keziah Clive who would fit the bill in 1891 RG12 /2269 f55 p 22
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Perhaps back to first principals.
I am interested in the second Ethel J Aspley, her dad seems to be James Aspley, who married a Clara Jane something, Ethel J (2) has Clive as her mothers maiden surname on birth record.
I cannot find a Clara Jane Clive, nor a likely marriage to James, but a James Aspley marries a Clara Jane Harris.
I must be missing somethign obvious, or Clara keeps getting her mums name wrong :)
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Do you have Ethel J (2nd's) birth certificate or are you just relying on the GRO index.
You say her dad 'seems' to be James - what does her marriage certificate say
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Agree 100% - if it is the second Ethel J bn 1913 you are interested in, then first step is to get her birth cert. Then there will be no danger of following the wrong line back.
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I am knee deep in Aspley's
I shall put together the Emanual/Kezia family and try to share out the kids!
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In the end I put the one I am interested under Emanuel Aspley and Kezia Clive, that all works well just so long as I assume that there was a transcription error to give Esther Clive marrying Emanuel.
Clara Jane Hastings fits in well living with James Aspley, but again I have to assume an error on the marriage, she seems to have married James brother John, perhaps he was a witness and it got confused.
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Have you got Ethel's birth cert? Marriage cert?
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In the end I put the one I am interested under Emanuel Aspley and Kezia Clive, that all works well just so long as I assume that there was a transcription error to give Esther Clive marrying Emanuel.
You should never assume, you could end up following the wrong family entirely. You would not be the first to do it.
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West Midlands BMD
1892 - James Aspley married Clara Harris at Christ Church, West Bromwich
1894 - Emmanuel Aspley married Esther Clive at West Bromwich Register Office
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However, Kezia does appear to have been registered under the name of Kesia Clive in December quarter 1876 - West Bromwich, 6b page 847 and confirmed under that name by West Midlands BMD - West Bromwich North East - records held at Sandwell Register Office.
The only way to verify the Emmanuel/Esther marriage entry is to purchase the marriage certificate, as Register Office marriage records are not available from any other source - as far as I know!
Ethel's birth certificate would solve the mystery ;D
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And to add to the fun, Clara may have lived with James, but she married John!
Name: Clara Harris
Gender: Female
Birth Date: abt 1872
Age: 20
Father's Name: William Harris
Spouse's Name: John Aspley
Spouse's Age: 21
Spouse's Father's Name: William Aspley
Marriage Date: 7 Nov 1892
Marriage Place: West Bromwich, Staffordshire, England
I am happy with the Emanuel/Keiza pairing now.
Thanks All
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And to add to the fun, Clara may have lived with James, but she married John!
Name: Clara Harris
Gender: Female
Birth Date: abt 1872
Age: 20
Father's Name: William Harris
Spouse's Name: John Aspley
Spouse's Age: 21
Spouse's Father's Name: William Aspley
Marriage Date: 7 Nov 1892
Marriage Place: West Bromwich, Staffordshire, England
I am happy with the Emanuel/Keiza pairing now.
Thanks All
I don't know where you got this transcription but it is wrong. ::)
The marriage certificate says James Aspley, father William (deceased)
James signed as James Aspley.
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@rosie99
From ancestry I can only get to transcriptions, so the same marriage turns up with John and James, however I cannot see the actualy handwritten document that includes things like fathers occupation/death.
It sounds like you can see it, have I missed a good resource?
Chris
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The transcripts on Ancestry have been pulled over from 'familysearch' unfortunately like all transcripts they need checking with the original source.
FindMyPast has copies of registers of some Staffordshire parishes :)
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I can look up the Christ church one for you if that would help?
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Any clues about Victor Levy you can find would be welcome, Honor Levy/Kerman should have married James William Thomas Amos of New Zealand in Chichester in 1943.
I am failry sure of the name because my father got a Victor in his names and Honor used Levy, some detail to help me narrow down the numerous VLs around at that time.
I guess I joined the wrong site, it came down to which would take DD rather than CC, cause I don't like CCAs.
Ta
Chris
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I was meaning Christ church west brom!
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Sorry getting my mysteries in a muddle.
The Aspley marriages have 2 uncertainties, in one what should be James was transcribed as John, I expect this is transcribing witness as spouse.
The other is proof that Esther and Kezia Clive are the same person.
Ta
Chris
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Will look at the Christ church one when I get chance but as already explained can't look up the reg office one as it has to be bought, that's the only way you get further info.
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I think you are crossing your posts, this should be on http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=693669.0
Any clues about Victor Levy you can find would be welcome, Honor Levy/Kerman should have married James William Thomas Amos of New Zealand in Chichester in 1943.
As I said earlier you really need Honors birth certificate. Whilst you may be sure that his name is Victor he may also have a middle name. The birth cert would also hopefully give his occupation giving us more clues.
The marriage between Honor Levy & James Amos does appear on the indexes but the information on that about her father will not necessarily be as accurate as that on her birth.
Rosie
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I have ordered the marriage cert to start as there is a choice of Honors born same county and year.
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I have ordered the marriage cert to start as there is a choice of Honors born same county and year.
I think you are crossing your posts this should be on
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=693669.0
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Sorry -sorted now I hope.
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Christ Church, West Bromwich
7 November 1892 - by Banns:
James Aspley, 21, bachelor, Moulder of Duke Street. Father: William Aspley (deceased) - Miner
Clara Harris, 20, spinster of The Wheatsheaf Inn, Carter's Green. Father: William Harris - Miner
Witnesses: Emanuel Aspley and Alice Harris.
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Thanks, all ties in neatly with census.