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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Oxfordshire => Topic started by: talktonite on Monday 28 July 14 11:27 BST (UK)
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Hi All,
I’d appreciate any assistance you can provide on this one.
One of my wife’s ancestors is William Lord (1788-1871 in Lew, Oxfordshire).
Wife: Mary (possibly Bannister)
Son: Henry James Lord (1841-1883) – amongst others (Mary, Elizabeth, William, James, Pamela, John, Edwin, Edward)
My research led me to believe that William was a publican and I managed to track him down to The Herd of Swine (now the Lord Kitchener) in Curbridge, Oxfordshire.
However, yesterday, I found the document below, which appears to indicate that William also managed another pub close by called The Swan. What’s confusing me is that this website suggests that he was born in Exeter, Devon.
“In 1850 William Lord, a publican from Devon, came to The Swan. The 1851 census shows that he was born in Exeter, was 63 years old, had a 40year-old son, also called William, and a 36-year-old daughter called Sarah who had the same name as her mother. Previously William Lord had been landlord of The Herd of Swine at Curbridge. As nowadays publicans moved around from one inn to another.”http://eynsham-pc.gov.uk/documents/eynsham_inns.pdf
This website suggests the same: http://pubhistory.co.uk/Oxfordshire/Eynsham/SwanHotel.shtml
I haven’t see a census record showing Exeter. All my census records show William and being born in Lew. Any idea what I’m doing wrong? Have missed something?
I’ve emailed the author of the document, but I’m yet to receive a response.
Thanks in advance
Marc
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The 1871 census (at least!) shows 2 William Lord's in Oxfordshire - hence the confusion! ;D
Class: RG10; Piece: 1452; Folio: 33; Page: 6
Curbridge, Witney, Oxfordshire
Shows William Lord, 83, Licensed Victualler, at "The Herd of Swine", born Lew.
Class: RG10; Piece: 1450; Folio: 92; Page: 8
Northleigh, Oxfordshire
Shows William Lord, 83, Yeoman, born Exeter
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1851 census:
Class: HO107; Piece: 1731; Folio: 499; Page: 10
Curbridge, Witney, Oxfordshire
William Lord, age 63, Inn Keeper, b Lew
Class: HO107; Piece: 1731; Folio: 99; Page: 26
Ensham, Oxfordshire
William Lord, 63, Publican, b Exeter
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1861 census:
Class: RG 9; Piece: 906; Folio: 39; Page: 15
Herd of Swine, Curbridge, Witney, Oxon
William Lord, 74, Victualler, b Lew
Class: RG 9; Piece: 904; Folio: 92; Page: 11
Northleigh, Oxon
William Lord, 73, Farmer of 14 Acres, b Exeter
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Thanks for the quick replies.
I'm pretty sure that the William Lord born in Lew is the one who's line flows down to our family. His son, Henry James, moved to Yorkshire which all makes sense to us.
The question is, which William ran the pubs? Perhaps William (Lew) ran The Herd of Swine and William (Exeter) ran The Swan.
Maybe the reserach paper and pubhistory webste have mixed thing sup (what are the chances of them both being wrong!).
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Have you not followed Henry James back through the censuses?
Henry James Lord:
1881, in Bowling, Yorkshire, married to Susannah. Born 1841, Chilson
1871, in Godmanchester, Huntingdonshire, married to Emma. Born 1839, Chilson
1861?
1851:
Class: HO107; Piece: 1732; Folio: 169; Page: 14
Chilson, Chilson & Pudicott, Oxfordshire
Lord, John Head Widower M 40 Farmer's Labourer b Brize Norton, Oxfordshire
Lord, Henry Son M 12 Scholar b Chilson
Lord, Charlotte Daughter F 10 Scholar b Minster, Oxfordshire
Lord, George Son M 7 Scholar b Chilson
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Hi,
Yes, I've followed Henry James up to William Lord (Lew) and all the way down to my relatives.
I thought my William Lord (Lew) was the manager of The Herd of Swine but the research paper suggests it was the other William Lord.
hmmmm
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Hi
[Enhanced with refs from KG's posts]
You say, "I thought my William Lord (Lew) was the manager of The Herd of Swine". He was.
Whether he is the father of your Henry is still in doubt (to me)
According to census returns, an individual named William Lord, b Lew ran a pub, in Curbridge, as the Publican(1841) HO107 872 33 8 Page7, Curbridge, William Lord, 50, Publican, bic
InnKeeper(1851)HO107 1731 499 Page10 Curbridge, William Lord, 63, Inn Keeper, b Lew ,
Victualler(1861) RG 9 906 39 Page15 Herd of Swine, Curbridge, William Lord, 74, Victualler, b Lew
with sons James. Edward, Edwin in all 3 census returns. (Varying others are with them) .
1861 names the pub that they are in as "The Herd of Swine". As does . . . .
LicensedVictualler(1871) RG10 1452 33 Page6 Curbridge William Lord 83 b Lew
A son named on the 1841 census as Henry, only appears in 1841 at age "4 months".
Even though his mother appears in 1851, he does not appear.
Neither does he appear in 1861.
How do you tie him (your Henry) back to this William and Mary Lord?
Something worthy of noting is that with William & Mary Lord, in 1851, is a niece Maria Lord 18 born Coate
(Cote, Ox is just up the road)
Daughter of William's brother Richard?
Ray
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Apparently, Maria has a brother Henry b 1844.
Ray
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Well until now I thought I had census records!
My Ancestry subscribtion has recently expired so I'll have to look throught what I've saved.
Thans very much for the response. I'll let you know what happens.
Marc
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As an update, I'm still working on this (via Ancestry in the library!). I’m trying to work back – basically, starting again.
•Henry James Lord (b.1841-1883) m Susannah Wood. They lived 87 New-Hey Road in Bowling, Yorkshire.
•They had a son called Harry Lord (b.1882) – a Carrier of Mineral Waters!
•Henry James Lord appears to remarry – this time to Emma Papworth.
•It seems Susannah then married too, as in 1891, Harry (now 8) and his sister Ada, are living with George and Susannah Suter in Huntingdon (strangely, close to where I think Henry James Lord was born)
•Harry married Mary Anne McCann and I know the rest from here.
My next step is to look for the parents of Henry James Lord.
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Hi
Marriage ?
George Suter / Susannah Papworth
1886 Apr-May-Jun Huntingdon 3b 443
Ray
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HJL dies 1883?
Emma (Papworth) Lord remarries 1890?
Emma's sister Susannah (Papworth) Suter takes the children in?
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Thanks Ray. This is getting strange.
Harry starts life with his parents Henry James Lord and Susannah Wood.
Assuming Susannah dies or moves on...
Henry remarries to Emma Papworth
Something happens to Emma
Harry moves in with Susannah Papworth (coincidence another Susannah) and her husband George Suter.
This will need more time!
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No, not strange, life.
Marriage
1864 (20 Jun) 1864 Godmanchester, Huntingdon, England
Henry James Lord / Emma Papworth (b 1849)
1871 RG10 1526 93 p27 - 27 London St, Godmanchester
HJL 32 Chilson
Emma 26 Godmanchester (b 1849)
James Henry 6
Charlotte 5
Emma 4
Caroline 2
Possible Birth reg
1864 Sep Huntingdon 3b 244 James Henry Lord
Possible Birth reg
1868 Dec Huntingdon 3b 255 Caroline Lord
Possible Death Reg
1874 Jun Huntingdon 3b 164 Emma Lord
Possible marriage reg
1880 Dec Bradford Y 9b 61
Henry James Lord / Susannah WOOD
1881 RG11 4437 70 p22, 25 Leicester St, Bowling Bradford
HJL 32 Chilson
Susannah 30 Shelf Yorkshire (b 1851)
James Henry 16
Charlotte 15
Emma 14
Caroline 12
Possible Birth reg
1881 Sep Bradford Y 9b 56 Ada Lord
Possible Birth reg
1882 Sep Bradford Y 9b 64 Harry Lord
Possible Death reg
1882 Sep Bradford Y 9b 40 Susannah LORD (32y)
Possible Death reg
1883 June Bradford Y 9b 30 Henry James Lord (45y)
George Suter / Susannah Papworth (b 1854)
1886 Apr-May-Jun Huntingdon 3b 443
1891 RG12 1237 22 p10 High St Brampton Huntingdon
George Suter 26 Brampton
Susannah 37 Godmanchester
(+ "their" children)
+ as prev mentioned
Ada Lord 9 Bradford
Harry Lord 8 Bradford
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Emma & Susannah PAPWORTH seem to be daughters of
James Papworth 1819 (& Eliza 1817) a Maltster living in Earning Street Godmanchester in 1851 and 1861
Ann 1841, Eliza 1843, Emma 1845, Ellen 1847, Hannah 1849, Mary 1851, Susannah 1853, Selina 1858. . . . .
Possible Marriage reg
1838 Jun Huntingdon 14 261
James Papworth / Eliza Burton (or even Elizabeth Harvey)
1851 HO107 1748 629 p30 Earning Street Godmanchester
(James, Eliza, + 6 dau)
1861 RG9 974 69 p17 Earning Street Godmanchester
(James, Eliza, + 4 youngest dau)
1871 RG10 1526 94 p20 The Exhibition Inn Godmanchester
(James, Eliza, Hannah, + grandson Walter Papworth 1mo[???] )
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Thanks Ray. Some of that tied into some notes which didn't make sense but so now. Some was new to me. Cheers again.
Now I'm off to confirm Henry James' parents.
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Don't forget to report back :-)
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I started this post will the name of someone not even in my family! Haha
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Henry's father was John Lord, born 1811. In 1851 he was a widower.
I'll need to get down to the library for free ancestry access to find out more.
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Where did you get the info?
You are saying that this may be him?
1851 HO 107 1732 (162/1) 169 p14 (as per Kev's post)
John Lord 40 Farmer's Labourer Brize Norton
Henry 12 Chilson
Charlotte 10 Minster
George 7 Chilson
1841 HO107 878 20 7 p7+8 Minster Lovell
John Lord 30 Baker bic
Eliza Lord 25 bic
Henery Lord 2 bic
Charle Roy Lord 4mo bic
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I'm only basing it on reply #5 to this post. It appears to line up.
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[Prev post amended]
All you have to do now is to get the certificates and (dis)prove it all. :-)
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Possible death reg
1850 June Chipping Nort 16 33 Eliza LORD