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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Down => Topic started by: Bellaanne on Wednesday 30 July 14 03:46 BST (UK)
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Trying to find info on Mcilmurray/McElmurray, my mother?'s great grandparents. I am aware they were from Co. Down, might have been flax farmers, were Catholic and lived or worked in Upper Rathmullan. .(I cannot even find anything about Upper Rathmullan.). They came to the US in about 1848. Any help greatly appreciated!
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(I cannot even find anything about Upper Rathmullan.)
Rathmullan Upper is a townland in the civil parish of Rathmullan (there is also a townland called Rathmullan Lower in the same civil parish). You can see the location of Rathmullan civil parish at this link:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0194n/
Also, some history of the name: http://www.placenamesni.org/resultdetails.php?entry=17629
There are still McIlmurrays (Eliza and Richard) in Rathmullan Upper at the time of Griffiths Valuation (print date is 1863 for that area), perhaps they might be relatives. You can see them and other occupants by searching at this link (search on Rathmullan, upper):
http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=placeSearch
Or if you can't find it, it's reproduced here: http://www.lecalehistory.co.uk/griffiths/page286.htm
Some McIlmurray graves are mentioned in one post here:
http://boards.ancestry.com/thread.aspx?mv=flat&m=4669&p=localities.britisles.ireland.dow.general
Have you any other details eg. forenames?
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Thanks, this is exciting. I think I have forenames and will get those later today.
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Thanks, this is exciting. I think I have forenames and will get those later today.
By all means post more info, just to pre-warn you that for all sorts of reasons, Irish records for that period are challenging, but if you don't ask... (I must dig out the great advice on this website about Irish records if I can find it, anyone else reading, please help).
Anyway, here is the townland of Rathmullan Upper shown in the Ordnance Survey mapping of Ireland from 1829 - 1842, you are looking at an area about 1 mile wide by a bit under a third of a mile tall (notwithstanding all the ups and downs).
http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,747683,837772,5,7
You maybe saw this in the map at the Griffiths's Valuation link I posted already.
On the map it's striking that virtually all of the habitation in that townland is concentrated in the cluster of buildings called (on the Griffith's Valuation map at least) what looks like Scollogstown. At this point I know nothing more about this... ???
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PRONI have a will indexed for 1864 of an Elizabeth M'Ilmurray, spinster, late of Rathmullan. The image can be viewed on their website.
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Scollogstown was a minor placename within Rathmullan parish, like a small clachan (settlement) and set within Rathmullan Upper. It would not have been part of the historical administrative system.
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Scollogstown was a minor placename within Rathmullan parish, like a small Clachan and set within Rathmullan Upper. It would not have been part of the historical administrative system.
Thanks scotmum, bowing out now. :)
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I have more info on my Mcilmurray family sometimes spelled McElmurray. It appears the name might have changed when they came to the US.
William McElmurray born Co. Down 1817' died Davenport, Iowa US 1859
Eliza McElmurray born Co. Down 1824.
Four of their eight children were born in Ireland, four in New York.
James 1847 about
Eliza 1844
Ellen 1849
William 1850 about
It appears they came to the US in the early 1850's where the next four were born in New York. They subsequently moved to Davenport, iowa.
Ellen McElmurray married John Turner and these two are my great grand parents.
I am only guessing that they might have beem involved in flax farming as I find that name connected to flax. Have also seen reference to a McIlmurry buried in Saul Church cemetery.
I hope to visit your lovely country and hope the, at least, stand on the ground where they might have lived. Again, any help will be greatly appreciated. Hope I posted this in the right place. Thank you.
Anabel Kuriger Flaherty
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So, this refers to Ellen:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0195p/
and this, her sister Eliza:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0195q/
and this, their parents Wiliam and Eliza:
http://iowawpagraves.org/index.php?last=MCELMURRAY&cid=82&lc=4
Having those full dates of birth for the daughters, if they are correct, would at least help to cross reference with birth records. Unfortunately, for timescale, those would be Church Records, and so it is dependant on the records, if any, surviving and you discovering which church the family were connected with.
Do you have any documents from the family's time in Iowa that mention Rathmullan? In your first post you say they 'lived and worked in Upper Rathmullan' - where have you sourced this info from?
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Yes, those are the graves, 10 minutes from my home. You have made me think and search and, no, I have no documentation of Rathmullan. Think I got that idea from early work and now doubt it's validity. I will try to find death records. Thanks so much!
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Just found some documentation on Mcilmurray and Rathmullan, William, 1833, Ireland tithe appointment book! Upper Rathmullan!
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OK - thinking is good :).
If you have no source documents in US that indicate Rathmullan, you should be careful about assuming it is the correct location. That said, often, checking appearance of surnames in the Tithe applotment records, Griffiths Valuation records and suchlike, can be a helpful indicator and at the very least, aid in narrowing down areas of research, especially with less common surnames.
Using a site such as http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/surname/ and inputting the surname 'McIlmurray', is helpful too, as it can throw up name variants.
With the 'McIlmurray' surname, it suggest, in timescale, it was to be found in County Down along with variation 'McElmorrow'. However, for variation 'McIllmurry', there were some occurrences in County Antrim and County Tyrone. Also, the 'McElmurry' spelling variation was found in County Fermanagh.
So, whilst it could well be that your line were the ones linked to Rathmullan Upper, if you have no US source that concurs with this, you may have to also consider the other spellings and areas too, even if only to rule them out.
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Thank you.
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It is getting closer to my trip to Co. Down and am still researching my great grandparents. As suggested by Scotman I have done further research and the more I look the more confused I become. Mcelmurray is the name they used in the US. I am confident they were from Co. Down yet the name I find on Down is Mcilmurray. Would these names have been interchangeable?
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There was no such thing as standarised spelling so it's very common to get variations of a name- have even see the same name spelt 3 different ways in one document.
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The excellent Ros Davies site has lots of McIlmurray references including one to William McIlmurray of Rathmullan who died 1835, was a brother of James, Bernard and Richard and is buried in Ballykinler Catholic Graveyard.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rosdavies/SURNAMES/Mc/McHMcIlv.htm
EDIT: Just noticed that this grave reference comes up on one of Gaffy's links. ::) Still worth a look at the site.
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Thank you both. Would it be feasible for this family to be called Mcilmurray in Down and change it to Mcelmurray when the arrive in the US?
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Thank you both. Would it be feasible for this family to be called Mcilmurray in Down and change it to Mcelmurray when the arrive in the US?
Absolutely yes. The spelling of a name was very much down to the whim of the person recording it. The idea of a correct spelling did not exist in the 19th century. Aghadowey has given an example. I have many similar name changes. One couple in my family had four children baptised in the 1850s by the same clergyman and the records show four different spellings.
My strong advice is to be open to many variant spellings.
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Many thanks! I am so excited to at the very least walk in the area they might have lived. Love Ireland but have never been North. Anabel
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Hi,
I agree with Glensman and Aghadowey. In 1858 my great Grandfather held a 33 acre farm, 26 acres were in one parish and 7 acres were across a road in another parish. The spelling of his name differed between the two parishes.
Regards
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Thanks a lot. That really helps. I did not want to have to wander all over Down and now perhaps I won't have to do that. You folks are so helpful!
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With the 'McIlmurray' surname, it suggest, in timescale, it was to be found in County Down along with variation 'McElmorrow'. However, for variation 'McIllmurry', there were some occurrences in County Antrim and County Tyrone. Also, the 'McElmurry' spelling variation was found in County Fermanagh.
I am a McElmury from the McIlmurry/McIlmurrays/McIllmurry from County Tyrone. You seem to be quite educated on the subject, so do you have any information about the County Tyrone McIlmurrys? :)
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Hi,
I can find some information on the Tyrone McElmurray/McIlmurray. If you give us some idea of what you are looking for I will see if I can help.
Regards
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Hi! Well, as far back as I know is James McIlmurray and Fanny who had 8 children: John, Samuel, William, Jane, Margery, James, Duncan, and Daniel. I'm looking for anything on their parents, birth or death dates of them themselves, or Fanny's maiden name. I don't know much about their son John, but I'm pretty sure he died in Ireland. If there was a gravesite or cemetery for him that would be cool. I also think that Margery and Daniel died in Ireland, so anything on them would be awesome. Even anything about their life in Tyrone would be so interesting to learn! I do not know much as they are the farthest back I have researched.
If it helps, I have the birth date of Samuel as about 1802, William about 1804, Jane about 1805, and James about 1809.
To my knowledge, they lived in Sixmilecross, Co Tyrone.
Thanks much! Chloe
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If James & Fanny's children were born in early 1800s then it will be extremely difficult to find births records for their parents, etc.
Civil registration of deaths started in 1864. If James & Fanny (and their children that stayed in Ireland) died after that date there will be death certificates but Irish certificates contain little details. See here-
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,433043.0.html
Do you know what religion the family were in Ireland? There wouldn't be a cemetery in those days but likely buried in a churchyard. If they were Presbyterian or other Protestant religion then also check the local Church of Ireland burying-ground since that was the State or Established church. The Church of Ireland is usually the only one that keeps burial registers (although odd notes may appear in Presbyterian registers, etc.) but not all their records pre-1870 survive.
This seems to be your McIlmurray family- if it's not your website then this is someone to contact for exchanging family details-
http://www.seekingallancestors.com/my_family/index.php
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Chloe,
As Aghadowey stated your dates are too early for me. I can find marriages for McElmurrys from the 1850s onwards in the Omagh area.
Regards
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Thanks both of you!
Aghadowey, yes I know of that website! It is quite helpful :) I emailed the woman who the runs the site to hopefully figure out more! Okay, James and Fanny probably have death certificates then. I will look into that. 3 of their children went to Canada. Their son John died in Ireland, apparently of a hemorrhage.
I'm not 100% on the topic of religion. The sons that moved to Canada were apparently Methodist/Wesleyan methodist, but he is one of the ones that moved to Canada. So not sure if their religion choice happened after or before they moved. Or if that is even a Protestant religion? I'm Catholic and that's all I know of regarding religion, ha.
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Most common Protestant denominations in Ireland would be Church of Ireland, Presbyterian, Methodist but there are also Congregationalist, Baptist, Quaker, etc.