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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: J Cook on Tuesday 05 August 14 08:04 BST (UK)
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I hope that this is the right place to come to.
I have been trying to find out about the RYA and seem to hit a brick wall. I know that my father served in the RYA 104th Battery in the early 1900's. I have no idea of the laws regarding at what age a boy could join. I do know that he was used as a marker boy but that is all. Also before the census of 1911 he deserted the RYA and ran away to Australia. I have no issues with this because when WW1 broke out he quickly signed up and he was one of the ANZAC's that landed at Gallipoli. So he wasn't a coward.
What I want to try and find out is where would I go to find the records of the RYA and in-particular I need to find any records of his desertion. Can anyone help me.
Regards John
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Hi John,
Welcome to Rootschat :)
There may be pre war records available on Findmypast, do you have his name dob and place of birth?
Cathy
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Hi Cathy. Firstly thanks for replying.
Yes, I have all his details. Last year I subscribed to Findmypast but I couldn't find any info about his military life.
John
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In order for us to help you, would you please share his name, dob and place of birth?
Can I also ask where you found details of his time in the Royal Yorkshire Artillery?
I can't find a regiment of that name?
Thanks.
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Ok I should have known that you might like his name.
His name is Albert Cook. He was born on the 29th November 1892 in Bingley, Yorkshire
As I mentioned Albert deserted and on his attestation papers is states RYA 104th Battery. I must say I have assumed that this is the exact wording. I did show an Australian Historian the document and this is what she thought it meant as well. I would be happy to send you the document if I could.
In a strange way this makes me feel good because I am not the only one who cant find this. :)
Cheers John
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Hi John
The regular army did not use locative names for the main RA units. So it is likely that he was in either the Volunteers or in the Militia - both were part-timers in peace time. The Volunteers became the TF (Territorial Force) in 1908, later still the TA. These men attended one evening a week with a number of weekends and a two week summer camp. They were only paid for the summer camp in this period. Enlistment was for four years. If a Volunteer did not serve in the Boer War his record has not been kept.
The Militiamen served for six years, starting with seven weeks initial training and summer trainings of about the same. They were paid for all attendance. One condition was that if there was a general mobilization they were 'embodied' - made full-time. In general they were for home defence to allow Regular troops to go to South Africa. There is a very good survival rate for Militia records on Findmypast, for men discharged before the end of 1913. These include deserters. So if you cannot find anything it suggests he was a Volunteer rather than in the Militia.
Regular RA units tended to be in Brigades and then Up to 9-10 batteries in each Brigade. There was a 104 Company, but this was in India.
It may be that 104 is actually the units precedence number, with the oldest being 1. In the 1884 Army List there is a unit called the 'Yorkshire Artillery Militia', based in Scarborough. From memory Volunteer units tended to be called 1st South Yorks etc. But I could be wrong
Lists of deserters were published in the Police Gazette. They give the man's name, age, unit, place of birth and description. They did not have photographs. They were listed for 3-4 issues. No complete library of PGs exists. A private company have microfilm sets from this period on sale for about £400-500.
Ken
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Hi Ken,
Firstly I have to say thanks to those who have responded. Its very much appreciated.
Ken, I have re-read my dad's attestation paper. There is a question. It reads:
Do you now belong to, or have you ever served in, His Majesty's Army, the Marines, the Militia, the Militia Reserve, the Territorial Force, Royal Navy, or Colonial Forces. If so state which and if not now serving state reason for discharge. The written response was RYA 104th Battery Desertion 4 1/2 years.
So from that I take it that he was in the Militia. You say that they joined for 6 years. If I read the attestation paper correctly it sounds like my dad served for 4.5 years and then deserted. So this makes sense. I can remember being told that they used the young boys as markers to help determine the range for shooting the guns or cannons.
Can you tell me if there were age limits. Like what age did they have to be to join up. Coming from a poor family I would say that he joined as soon as he could to get some income.
This is really interesting.
Cheers John
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Minimum age for the Volunteers and Militia was 17. Although I have come across a few under-age Militia Privates aged about 16. It was 18 for the Regular army, All three arms had a few Boys who were 14 or above. Purchasing a discharge in the Regular army cost £20, and only £2 in the part-timers. So it was a good idea trying the part-timers first before committing for 12 years as a Regular.
Could RYA be RFA for Royal Field Artillery? Can you post a link or a snipping from the later attestation?
Ken
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Hi, RFA is a very good possibility, I would say.
Frank.
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Ken,
I am not sure how to do that. If I had an email address I could forward the file with his attestation paper.
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Here is the important part of the document. I have to say I am not sure what it says. It could be RFA, or RYA - although the other Ys appear to have an extra curl at the beginning.
I also think is could be a tick followed by a 2, then YA. IE 2YA with a later tick added. There was a Volunteer 2nd Yorkshire Artillery based in the West Riding.
Added..if you look at the Bs in Bingley , the writer does appear to write a tick and takes the pen off the paper before finishing the rest of the B. So it may not say 2YA.
Ken
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Wow!, you've covered all the base's there Ken ;D I think it could be:
2YA but like you say the possibility's are endless ::).
I wonder if putting a link on the recognition and deciphering board would help.
Regards
Frank.
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Ken & Frank,
Again many thanks for taking the time to check this out.
Now that you have been critical about the letters I now query it as well. The "Y" that is in question certainly doesn't have as long a tail as all the other "Y's" have. In fact when I cast my mind back to how we were taught to write the "Y" in question actually looks like a capital "T"
Just one more point, did you have an opinion of what the 4 and a Half years was referring to. Do you believe it was the time he spent in the force or was it the number of years since he deserted. I would like to hear you thoughts as it might help me narrow the time when he left England.
Regards
John
Regarding the tick's if you look at the "B's" and the "N's" they all appear to have a tick.
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As the four and a half years is outside the brackets I think it is referring to his length of service. But I am not even sure of his age. It is 22 with each two written differently?
firepower.org is the website for the RA. They may be able to tell you what 104th Battery means. But I think you may have to pay. It seems they are closing by 2017 -
From Wiki
Museum
The Regimental museum, "Firepower" located in the Royal Arsenal at Woolwich will close by 2017.
Ken