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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Moray (Elginshire) => Topic started by: Rainne on Friday 08 August 14 21:51 BST (UK)
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I'm looking into the family history of my ggp, George and mary robb Walker. they're from clovenside forres Scotland. any help
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Hi
You haven't given any info as to their birthyears
If they were born, married or died from 1855 onwards - their parents names and mothers maiden name will be on their birth/marriage/death certs which can be viewed on Scotlands People (pay per view so you need to buy credits)
www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk
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Looking at the 1901 census which you presumably already have - the family were as follows
Address - Clovanside - all Walker children b Forres
George Walker 43 cattle dealer b Rafford
Mary 44 b Fordyce Aberdeen
James 17
Maggie 15
George 15
Alexander 11
Joseph 10
Mary 8
William 6
Richard 4
Margaret Robb 10 niece b Inverness
Forres ED 10 Page 11 Line 15
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This baptism is from Family Search https://familysearch.org/search
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/F7S4-6BX
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1861 for Rafford - all b Rafford
Helen Walker 44
Isabella 15
James 11
John 5
George 3
Rafford ED 2 Page 13 Line 22
1851 shows James aged 50 - farmer - b Rafford. There was also a 3yr old son William who does not appear in 1861
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You'll find them both here http://libindx.moray.gov.uk/mainmenu.asp . No parents names shown.
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You should be able to buy a photo of their headstones from The MBGRG http://www.mbgrg.org/ancestor_intro.shtml .
They are both listed. George remarried after Mary died.
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ty everyone I just found out about them 2 days ago does anyone have pictures of their headstones. they are both buried in cluny hill I cant bring up anything
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I don't have the census and really not sure where to look carol could someone help
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127. In loving memory of our dear mother Mary Robb who died at Clovenside, Forres 18th Jan 1908 aged 51 years. Also her son Richard John Walker, Sergt. 1/6th Seaforth Highlanders killed in action in France 2nd June 1916 aged 19 years. Also of our father George Walker who died 19th March 1919 aged 61 years. Also her son Joseph Walker who died at Vancouver 30th April 1924 aged 33 years.
If you private message me your email address I can send you a photo of the stone.
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From the Morayshire Roll of Honour 1914-1918
WALKER, Richard John. No. 2623, Sgt., 6th Seaforths; born at Clovenside, Forres, 11th August, 1896; joined at Elgin, Nov., 1914; served in France ; killed in action in France, 2nd June, 1916. Son of George Walker, Clovenside, Forres, and Mary Robb or Walker (deceased). Occupation saw trimmer.
CWGC has him listed buried in Maroeuil British Cemetry www.cwgc.org
Regards
Jen
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im looking for my ggm mary robb walker born 1857 in Fordyce Aberdeen. she married George walker born in rafford moray Scotland . any help would be appreciated. I do not have her parents names
Post now merged with earlier topic.
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Historically, Fordyce belongs to Banffshire, not Aberdeen. It has only been in what is now called Aberdeenshire for about 20 years, so there is no point looking for your Mary in Aberdeen or Aberdeenshire.
The online index at Scotland's People tells me that George Walker married Mary Robb in Rafford, Moray in 1881.
You need to go to www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk, invest in a few credits as modest cost, and use one to find and five to download an image of the marriage certificate. This will tell you the full names of both George's and Mary's parents, including their mothers' maiden surnames.
Have a look at http://libindx.moray.gov.uk/mainmenu.asp which tells me that Mary Robb, wife of George Walker, died in Forres, Moray on 18 January 1908 aged 51. If this age is accurate, she was born between 19 January 1856 and 18 January 1857. Her death certificate is also available from Scotland's People and it too will tell you her parents' full names.
There is one birth on SP for a Mary Robb in Fordyce in 1856. The International Genealogical Index at www.familysearch.org says that Mary Robb, daughter of James Robb and Margaret Whyntie, was born in the parish of Fordyce on 18 June 1856. It looks likely that this is your Mary, but you cannot assume that it is; you need additional confirmation from the marriage and/or death certificate to be certain.
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looking for Margaret Whynti and james Robb both born in 1817 Margaret died in 1882. james I think in 1900. they had a a daughter mary robb walker born in Fordyce. any info will help
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I'm going by memory at the moment as I don't have full access to my records right now.
This might be totally useless to you but I have a relative somewhere in my mother's line who moved to Wick, Caithness from Deskford. She was living with her uncle, an Anderson (her mother's maiden name)
I can't offer specific names or dates right now but her name was Elizabeth Whyntie and was born around mid 19th C.
I'll get back to you with what I can when I can log in to my records.
I always recall thinking it was an unusual name which is why it sticks in my mind. The name, in addition to the Banffs connection, might indicate a family tie somewhere.
Thought it was worth mentioning - might give you some obscure clue to 'your' Whynti.
Dave
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I would really appreciate that when you can get to it it would have been gggm and gggf I have no clue about them
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I won't be able to access my own records until probably later today but my interest is piqued.
When you say you are "looking for Margaret Whynti and...", what info is it you are looking for? Since you've not been specific I don't want to spend too much time on it just now in case I'm either duplicating things you already know, or I go off on a tangent. :)
Will post a couple of items that might help.
Did a very quick search of census records in Banffs and there are a number of census records for Whyntie families born Banffs.
In 1851 there is one family that is a possible, but you may have this already:
Address: Windsor, Parish of Fordyce
James Robb 34, head, crofter ag lab, born Fordyce
Margaret Robb 32, wife, born Deskford
Helen Robb 8,
Margaret Robb 6
Betty Robb 3
John Robb 3 Mo
(all children born Fordyce).
I can't see them for sure in 1861 but there is a possible family living in Kildrummy, Aberdeens. that might be them although there is a slight discrepancy in the age of the boy John and also, the father is not there (she is described as "wife" though, not "widow".
Address: Tyries 2, Parish of Kildrummy
Margaret Robb 42, farmer's wife, born Deskford
Helen Robb 18
Elisabeth Robb 12 (obviously this could be "Betty")
John Robb 9
Alexander Robb 7
Mary Robb 4
George Gray 50, visitor, farmer servant, b.Deskford
(again, all children born Fordyce).
1871, they appear to be in Forres, Morayshire
James is now a spirit dealer and is living with wife "Margret" and children Helen, John, Alex and Margret.
Address, 131 High St, Forres
James Robb 53, spirit dealer, Fordyce
Margret Robb 51, Deskford
Helen Robb 26, dom servant, Fordyce
John Robb 18, blacksmith, Fordyce
Alex Robb 16, mason, Fordyce
Margret Robb 8, scholar, Deskford
1881....
63 & 65 High St, Forres
James Robb 64, Grocer and spirit merchant, Fordyce
Margaret Robb 62, Deskford
Mary Rob(b) 24, general domestic servant, Fordyce
John Duncan 7, grandson, Forres (states mother as Mary Rob)
Haven't looked for Margaret later as you indicate she died 1882.
Don't see James obviously in 1891 but there is 1 James Robb, a 74yo widow from Scotland living with a Berkenshaw family in Newton, Lancaster. Occupation though is shown as a post watchman.
Going back to 1841 now....
Living at Windsor (see 1851)
James Robb 20, farmer
Margt Robb 20
James Robb 4 Mo
Margt Gray 3
(all born Banffs - not specific)
(adults ages usually rounded in 1841)
I would point out again, these are from very quick searches I've carried out and I have done nothing really to verify they are the correct people, they just look likely to me. They are also just the transcripts so are only as reliable as the person that input the info to Ancestry.
Hope these are the correct family and that it helps you out.
Dave
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Pretty sure that's the correct family I've been looking at.
Quick search on FamilySearch shows James Robb and Margaret Whytnie had children:
Helen, christened 8 Nov 1842, Fordyce
Betty, b 1 Sep 1848, c 12 Sep 1848, Fordyce
Margaret, c 26 Oct 1844, Fordyce
Alexander, b 29 Jan 1854, c 22 Feb 1854, Fordyce
John, b 1 Jan 1851, c 7 Jan 1851m Fordyce
Jas. , b22 Jan 1841, c30 Jan 1841, Deskford
You'd be able to get copies of the actual OPRs for these from ScotlandsPeople, or if you're able to visit the Archives in Edinburgh, or The Mitchell in Glasgow etc.
(Edited - I see now you're in Oregon)
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James Robb and Margaret Whyntie are recorded on FamilySearch as being married on 1 Aug 1840. It's recorded in both the Parish of Deskford, and of Fordyce. That's not unusual when two parties are from different areas.
Again, you'd be able to get a copy of the actual OPRs from ScotlandsPeople (SP) (I see now you're in Oregon so I guess a visit to the local archives is not an option for you).
I also see from FamilySearch that Mary was born 13 June 1856 in Fordyce. Being after the compulsory registrations of 1855, that would be a good document to get your hands on (via SP) as it would give you definitive evidence that Mary's parents were indeed James and Margaret. It would also show her specific place/address of birth.
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I'm not sure how experienced a researcher of Scottish records you are, but assuming you're not too used to it, here're the links to FamilySearch (FS) and Scotlands People (SP). FamilySearch is free, but not 100% reliable or complete - it's based on transcripts. ScotlandsPeople is Pay per view but is the ONLY place online that you can obtain copies of the actual birth, marriage, death and census records for Scotland. Info on any other sites will always be from transcripts, not always accurate or complete.
FS... https://familysearch.org/search
SP... http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk
I'll have a look later at the Whyntie girl I have from Deskford and try and find a connection. It seems very likely she'll be a niece, 2nd cousin or something like that of your Margaret.
I'll also see whether I can narrow down a birth for either James Robb or Margaret Whyntie - Deskford and Fordyce were both very small communities.
Dave
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Lucky white heather must be working! :D
Almost certainly James was christened on 11 April 1817 in Fordyce and was the son of James Rob and Helen Mersen (details from FS)
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Also from FS....
Margaret Whyntie b27 Mar 1819, c1 Apr 1819, Deskford to parents James Whyntie and Margaret Fraser.
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Still on FS.
James Whyntie / Margt. Fraser married (might be date Banns read) in Grange, Banffshire on 20 Jun 1807.
They had a number of children, one of whom was your Margaret's brother, John Whyntie b1811 (MY RELATIVE!!!! by marriage - the father of the girl I mentioned right at the beginning of the thread!!!!).
I'm not allowed to post a copy of the actual record on here because of copyright, but the attached is a screenshot of part of John's death record in 1899 showing his parents as James Whyntie and Margaret Fraser.
I'm calling it quits at that for now as it is after 5am here now - I need to get some shut-eye.
I'll get back to you later today or tomorrow once I collate all this info, get it on my tree and check my own records.
If you wish, we can exchange email addresses by PM so that I can give you access to my tree and also send you any documents I might have.
I won't have much yet because the Whyntie family are my "in-laws" rather than blood family. My link is through John Whyntie's wife, Hellen Anderson (her father is my ggggf).
This is quite exciting finding this. I wouldn't have bothered looking at the Whyntie side for years yet because it's in-laws rather than direct family. All because I happened to recognise the unusual name from your post! :)
I might take a stroll around the block, make a coffee and just stay awake now. It'll be light in a couple of hours anyway. :D
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A fair bit of work to do yet, but we might be able to get the Whyntie line back to late 17thC. They seem to have been in Fordyce pretty consistently.
I've had a walk and coffee and am just coming back to the research. I'm flagging though. Might not last too much longer without a sleep. I'll see how it goes. Will start inputting what I know so far.
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Children of James Whyntie and Margaret Fraser that I've found so far (as I've found them - not in order of birth):
Alexander c2 Dec 1821 Deskford
Betty b13 Jun 1817 c20 Jun 1817 Deskford
Margaret b27 Mar 1819 c1 Apr 1819 Deskford
John b31 May 1811 c8 June 1811 Deskford
Isobel b21 Feb 1809 c25 Feb 1809 Deskford
James b3 Nov 1814 c10 Nov 1814 Deskford
I've seen some of their spouses too but I'll come back to that - I don't want to digress too far before I record the direct blood lines. I'd lose track.
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Also meant to say, although I'm concentrating on Whyntie at the moment, we can come back to the Robb family. Remind me about that if I forget. We'll get the Whyntie line out the way first. Are you OK with that?
Also, I don't want to spoil your fun - if you'd prefer to do the research yourself, just say. I'll stop if you want. As I mentioned before, I wouldn't have been doing this family for quite some time in any case.
Dave.
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I've just found 8 Whynties that ARE my blood relatives - the children of John b1811 and 'my' Hel(l)en Anderson.
They will all be blood relatives common to both you and me.
I'll log out of here for now and catch up before I look further. Too much info available all at once!!!! :o ;D
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looking for Margaret Whynti and james Robb they had a a daughter mary robb walker born in Fordyce.
Be aware that in Scotland a married woman does not legally lose her own surname. The married daughter of James Robb and Margaret Whyntie would be referred to in legal documents as "Mary Robb or Walker", not "Mary Robb Walker".
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For the avoidance of duplication, be aware of this earlier topic
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=700788.0
Thanks for the clarification and cross referencing Forfarian.
Moderator comment , various threads now merged.
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Back again Rainne. I'm currently going over the children of James Robb and Margaret Whyntie.
As far as I can tell from FS, there were in fact 8 in all. I've cross checked them with the census records I found earlier and it all ties in with a few very slight discrepancies in the ages - that doesn't concern me as it's not unusual and everything else ties in.
You should note that there are two Margarets, one born 1844 in Fordyce and another born 1862 in Kildrummy. Again, this ties in nicely with the census records. It is not unusual in Scotland that if a child dies young, then the name is 're-used' for a subsequent child. The implication here is that Margaret b1844 died after the 1851 census, but before 1861 census. The further child is born in 1862 and given the name Margaret again. Hence, there being a child Margaret aged 8 in the 1871 census.
The children are:
James b22 Jan 1841 c30 jan 1841 Deskford
Helen c8 Nov 1842 Fordyce
Margaret c26 Oct 1844 Fordyce
Betty b1 Sep 1848 c12 Sep 1848 Fordyce (aka Elizabeth)
John b1 Jan 1851 c7 Jan 1851 Fordyce
Alexander b29 Jan 1854 c22 Feb 1854 Fordyce
Mary b13 June 1856 Fordyce
Margaret Reid b6 April 1862 Kildrummy, Aberdeenshire (Reid used as a middle name, as well as personalising the 2nd Margaret, could be a clue to the maiden name of a grandparent / great grandparent so keep this in mind - it might help in later searches for earlier ancestors).
I'm logging off again to type this up in my records.
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Jings Crivvens Help ma Boab!
Gave me a heart attack there almost Mod! One minute I'm reading through the various posts I've made and typing info from them, the next - they all disappeared on me.
Thought they'd all gone.
Phew, took me a few seconds to realise that the various threads had been amalgamated.
Dinnae dae that again without warning! :D
Dave
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Crivvens jings an michty me!
A nivver kent there wis three threids on the ae femly!
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Ha Ha Forfarian, it sure sent the wullies richt up me when a thocht they'd aw goan!
The plot thickens Rainne.
I was just reviewing some of the info in my records and realised that I have Rob(b) family in Morayshire too (Drainie, about 30 miles from Fordyce and Deskford).
No obvious link (yet), but possibly a connection as they are related to my Andersons that took the young lass Elisabeth Whyntie to Caithness. It's the same era too.
Dave
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no go for it I live in Oregon and im the only 1 doing this for my family .my grandparents had 4 children my mom was the youngest and the only living 1 left is my oldest aunt who is 97. I need all the help I can get
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OK Rainne,
That's me got my site up to date with everything mentioned in this thread back to the marriage of George Walker and Mary Robb (I've not included their children in my site as they are really too remote from my family. That might change if I find a link between my Robb family and your Robb family).
If you care to send me a PM with your email address, I'll give you access to my site. The way I have the trees laid out, it'll make it much easier for you to follow than this thread.
I'd be obliged if you do not share any information from my site, other than your blood relatives, ie, the Walkers, Robbs and Whynties and their direct ancestors / descendants.
I'll stress again that although all the information people have given you in this combined thread looks pretty accurate, you cannot rely on it as very little of it has been verified by actual documentation. The only way you'll get that is by purchasing credits from SP, the pay per view site already mentioned a couple of times. Of course, you may be lucky and find someone that has previously purchased the documents and is willing to let you have copies. The actual documentation is worth paying for - it's not expensive considering what it contains and will verify for you.
The good thing is, a lot of the groundwork has been done for you on here,. This means you won't waste credits searching for or obtaining the incorrect documents.
Once you send me your email contact, if you decide to do that, I'll give you access to my tree and I'll send you a couple of examples of the sort of documents you can get from SP.
Roughly speaking, each document will cost 6 credits. 30 credits costs £7 (7GBP - about $11/$12).
If I find out any more re the Whyntie or Robb families or their ancestors, I'll let you know when you reply.
Dave
I'm going to have a break from it now because i've pretty much been at it constantly for the last 12 hours! I don't sleep too well normally so I enjoy the research to pass the time. I get engrossed though and sometimes find it hard to stop. :)
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ok im now trying to find mary robb son by her first husband ive checked family search and lindix and all I could find is when he was born. his name is john Duncan born march 9 1874 in Forres Moray Scotland. his father was alexander Duncan know nothing about him. I do have a picture of johns daughter janet know nothing about her except she was married to harry taylor any help would be appreciated
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I am a direct relative of George Walker & Mary Robb of Clovenside, Forres. If interested in the Walker side of things, I can give you my tree starting:
"On 9 Sept’ 1881 at 61 High Street, Forres, George Walker, 24, a batchelor & cattle salesman’s assistant, m. Mary Robb, 25, (b. in Fordyce on 18 June 1856.) a domestic servant spinster of the said 61 High Street, Forres. Mary d. at Clovenside, Forres on 18 Jan’ 1908 aged 51".
I am the grandson of their daughter Mary Walker also b at Clovenside & who lived to 100!
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These were my GGP. My grandmother was Maggie Walker, changed to Margaret (her father was a wee bit tipsy when he registered the birth apparently!). Would love a photo of the headstone for Mary Robb Walker and any other info available. My grandmother was born in Briar Cottage. Was that in Findhorn or nearer to Forres? Many thanks!
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My grandmother was born in Briar Cottage. Was that in Findhorn or nearer to Forres? Many thanks!
Where was the birth registered? Because if her birthplace was in Findhorn, it would be registered in Kinloss, not in Forres.
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Hi Romaniuk,
"Margaret (“Maggie” or “Meg”) b. 3 June 1885 at Briar Cottage, Forres. By 1891 census, she was listed aged 5 with her family at 4 Nicholson Place, Forres. By 1901 census she was at Clovenside with them. She d. 7 June 1971 aged 86".
That's all I have on Maggie from which you'll see that Briar Cottage was in Forres where most of the wider Walker family were then based. I have a fair amount on the earlier Walkers going back to Rafford etc should you want it.
Dark Island
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Forfarian and Dark Island, Thanks to you both! Maggie Walker was registered in the County of Elgin if that is of help. Name changed to Margaret since 1904. She is buried with my grandfather Robert T. Kerr in Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada. Forfarian earlier Walker history is definitely of interest to me, if you don't mind.
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Maggie Walker was registered in the County of Elgin if that is of help.
No help at all, since both Forres and Kinloss (including Findhorn) are in the County of Moray, formerly known as either Elginshire or the County of Elgin. In this case it's the parish (or district) of registration that should be informative.
Dark Island has obviously seen the birth certificate and confirms that Briar Cottage is/was in Forres.
According to LIBINDX http://libindx.moray.gov.uk/mainmenu.asp Briar Cottage is/was in Caroline Street in Forres. Reference PN013749.
Forfarian earlier Walker history is definitely of interest to me, if you don't mind.
I don't have anything on this family other than what is in this thread. You're not related to me as far as I know.
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Hi Rainne. I have just started looking into my Mother's side of the family. Her father was James Walker, son of George Walker and Mary Robb. The information we have found matches everything we've read about the family you have researched. I think we are related! We live in Ayr, Scotland, and have just started looking into the family tree.
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Hi Cath,
I'll leave Rainne to fill you in on the Walkers. She has what I have. My Granny was Mary Walker, sister of your Grandfather James Walker. Come back to me if unable to connect up with Rainne.
Dark Island
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Hi Dark Island
That would be good, thank you.
It's so nice to know I've got relatives out there. My grandfather James Walker married Mary Mathieson in Larkhall, they had 4 daughters. My mother was the second eldest, Mary Robb Walker, and family lived in Glasgow.
Cath
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cath I just sent you a message.
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Hi Cath,
I have little on your Grand-da James Walker beyond the following. I lost him after Forres & could only spot "another" James in Edinburgh! Looks like it wasn't the right one so any confirmation on his family would be appreciated:
"James b.at Moss-side, Rafford on 28 March & baptised 2 May 1850. 1861 census has him aged 11 at Woodside with his mother Helen & other siblings. Helen, 44 was on the Poor Rates! By 1871 who I think is our James was at 178 High Street, Forres with the Kynoch family where he is designed as an unmarried 21 year old shopman from Rafford. 1881 census has a James Walker (?) at Newington Edinburgh working as a commercial traveller with a wife Agnes & daughter Agnes, 4 & son George, 1. By 1891 census he, trading as a bookmaker, is at 24 Polwarth Crescent with children James, 9; Rose, 7; & Thomas, 3. By 1901 they’re at 52 Polwarth Gardens but with no Thomas but new daughter Margarette. James is a master bookmaker. By 1911 James, 62, is alone at 98 Morrison Street".
Regards
Dark Island
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Hi Dark Island
Thanks for the information, we didn't have any on that James Walker. That is my great grandfather George's son. He had a sister Isabella and brothers, William, John and George, who we know of.
My Grandfather James Walker was born on the 27th July 1883 at Caroline Street, Forres, Morayshire. He had sisters Hellen, Margaret, Mary and Elizabeth and brothers George, Alexander, Joseph, William and Richard. Their parents were George Walker and Mary Robb.
My Grandfather James married Mary Mathieson on the 24th November 1905 in Larkhall, Lanarkshire, and was a spirit salesman. They moved to Wishart Street, Glasgow, and had 4 daughters- Jessie Houston, Mary Robb, Georgina and Jane Mathieson. My mother was said Mary Robb Walker born 1908. They then moved to Warriston Crescent, Glasgow, where James Walker died on the 7th of April 1941.
I've just given you a brief summary, if you would like any more details on any of this, please let me know.
Cath.
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cath I can help you also my grandfather is William robb walker your grandfathers brother
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Hi Cath,
I gave you the wrong James! All I have on your James is:
"James b. 27 July 1883 when his father, George was designed as a “flesher”. By 1891 census he & his family were at 4 Nicholson Place & by 1901 census James was said to be an apprentice gardener. 1911 census has him as a recovering soldier in a local lunatic asylum! He m. Mary Mathieson & d.7April 1941 aged 57 at Warrinston Crescent, Glasgow".
If you send me your email address I'll give you what I have on the rest of the family! You've got a bit of reading to do! I'm in Edinburgh, a grandson of Mary Walker...sister of your above James.
Dark Island
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hi Cath
did you get my book and pictures of my grandfather William.
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Yes thank you so much. Great pictures! I'm in the middle of reading it along with dark island's. My granddaughter has been working shifts the last few days, but will get back to you and send photos at the weekend.
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so glad you got them we told you a lot of reading cant wait for the weekend and the pictures any questions just ask us
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Hi Dark Island and Rainne
Finally got the chance to send the info as promised. Sorry it took so long!
Cath.
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My grandmother was Maggie Walker, later changed to Margaret born in Forres. cheers, Jane Romaniuk/ Winnipeg Canada
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Dark Island, Would love to see info on the Walker Family from Forres. Think I walked by Briar Cottage years ago on a visit, would you know if it's still there and it's location? Many thanks!