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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: woody16 on Saturday 16 August 14 17:25 BST (UK)
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Hi I have been reading the Joseph Watsons from hull posts with great interest as I am related. I may be of a little help to scotia girl as my father was sent a family tree some years ago regarding the Joseph Watsons dating back to 1784 in kirkella,hull. On this hand written tree Joseph (joey) Watson born 1883 married Janet turn bull nee Grieg (his 3rd wife) born 1896-1981 they has a son Peter Joseph born 1928 who wrote the family tree I am in possession of.
As I am new to this I am unable to contact scotia girl directly so I hope she sees this and it fits with her info. I have no documents to proof this I'm afraid.
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Hello Woody and welcome to Rootschat!
If you send two more messages (just reply twice to this one saying hello, or something short) you will be able to send a Personal Message to scotiagirl by clicking on the writing in the circle underneath her name on the left hand side of her posts.
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Thanks very much for info,will do :)
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Thank you! :)
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This sounds very exciting woody - welcome to rootschat.
Here is the thread http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=685138.0
I have cross referenced the threads
Heywood
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Thank you Heywood :)
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Blimey! Reading you loud and clear Woody16. This is amazing. Where to begin.... welcome to Rootschat by the way. Another piece to the Watson puzzle. Of course, I'm most interested in Joey b 1883. I'll certainly have to do some digging now that we have all this new information especially about Janet. Do you know when they were married and where they were living? I'll have to digest some of this and get back to you soon. Thanks so much.
Scotiagirl
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Hi woody16
I notice that you refer to Joey as Joseph Watson. Have you ever heard of him called Ralph Beverley or just Ralph? In various documents and London newspapers since 1920 he is listed as Ralph Beverley Watson. Yet he appears as Joseph Watson on son Peter's family tree? Just checking. Great information.
Scotiagirl
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Welcome aboard woody16
Well what can I say only WOW another Watson with more info and more questions and little answers to them, no doubt over time we may succeed.
My head is whirring once again, just trying to keep track and upto date with info is mind blowing.
BUT these Watson's have me hooked and they are of no relation to me, just fascinating and so many twists n turns.
Right folks lets get started on this Janet ::)
woody16 do you know if Joseph n Janet lived in England when they had Peter Joseph 1928 ???
bendywendy
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I have copied this from the other thread... http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=685138.81 page 10 which mentions a Janet and info found with a wife Janet, this will make it easier for woody16 to go back and read...
No idea re Janet Watson. There are these entries on London electoral roll for a Ralph Beverley Watson
1923
18 Old Town, Wandsworth North street
Mrs Alice Stacey Occupation qualification
Mr Ralph Beverley Watson residence qualification
1924 same address
Same people plus Mrs Alice Mantle
1930
8 Gambetta Street Battersea
Ralph ....
Janet Watson qualification through husband's occupation
Is this him though?
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The only birth I can find for a Peter J Watson c1928 is: June Q 1928 Edmonton MMN Watson which is of little help >:( Edmonton would fit in for a Ralph n Janet living Battersea
Surname Grieg looks Scottish to me
This could be her death:
Janet Watson @ Oswestry, Shropshire Sep Q 1981 born 19 Aug 1896 85 years
Marriage:
Janet Greig to Ralph Turnbull @ Hartlepool, Durham Mar Q 1917
Children to the marriage above:
Now they either didn't have any children or they were born far away from Hartlepool, I cannot put their names on as they could still be living
Death for Ralph Turnbull @ Durham 1917 age 64 1917... @ South Shields age 47 1920 umh :-\
woody16 anything on the tree info about this Ralph Turnbull ???
British Army WWI Service Records, 1914-1920
Ralph Turnbul
Birth Date: abt 1889
Place: St Oswald's, Durham, England
Age at Enlistment: 25
Marriage Date: 7 Jan 1917
Place: West Hartlepool
Document Year: 1914
Regimental Number: 51126
Regiment Name: Royal Engineers
Number of Images: 23
Form Title: Short Service Attestation
Name Relation to Soldier
Ralph Turnbull Self (Head)
Janet Greig Spouse
I don't have time now to look to see if this Ralph Turnbull died in WW1 maybe someone can search the commonwealth war graves, I will look in again later. If we can find a death for this Ralph Turnbull it gives a better indication to when Janet could have married Joseph, Joey, Ralph Beverley Watson OR if Ralph did die in WW1 did Janet go overseas ???
bendywendy
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No nothing regarding Ralph turnbull. You have Janet's dates right 1896-1981. They had a son Peter Joseph born 1928, he married beryl Harper and they had 2 children who should be still living. The address I have for peter is London.
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Thank you all for the warm welcome and for the hard work you have already done. We have loved seeing the photos from westwood21 and I am enjoying reading Joeys WW1 letters,fantastic! Westwood21 must be my fathers cusson!
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I have now read the WW1 Service Records for Ralph Turnbull and can state that there was a request for Separation Allowance made to Janet Turnbull the wife of No:51126 Sapper R Turnbull, Royal Engineers, on account of her Immoral Conduct. Dated May 10th 1918. Another letter states address as 38 Westmorland St, West Hartlepool 13th Feb 1917.
Ralph was charged with being: absent from his post many times over, giving false number, idling at work and being absent for ? days several times, over staying his pass several times, arrested by civilian police and regimental police, stealing, obscene language..
Petty Sessional Division of Westbury, Wiltshire.. for stealing 3 bottles of Whiskey value of 12 shillings. In his defence he stated "Not guilty. I was drunk and did not know what I did" 17th June 1915.
Statement as to a Disability 23 Jan 1919 he was living at 10 Pilgrim St, West Hartlepool, 30 yrs, Sapper No:250134. Joined up at Chatham 9th Sept 1914 his medical condition then A1. All questions asked have had 1 line drawn through both sides, nothing written, added, signed or stamped.
Upon joining he was living at 15 Catherine St, West Hartlepool. Was a Superior Rivetter.
Father is John Turnbull of above address.
Wife 138 Westmorland Street, West Hartlepool.
Marriage 7th Jan 1917 West Hartlepool
No children noted
Height 5ft 6 3/4 inch, 133 lbs, chest 38 inch + 2 1/2 expansion, Complexion Fresh, Eyes Hazel, Hair Dark Brown, C of E, Tattoo SPOT base of right thumb
Another sheet he was with 258th Tunnelling Company R.E. and he was remustered to "Sapper" as Rivetter Superior 1/8d rate of Engineer Pay effect 3rd Aug 1916.
His posting to the Railway Operating Division may now be arranged by internal transfer.
Director of Railways states he has applied to be mustered as a "Rivetter" and transferred to the Railway Company, he holds indentures for 5 years as such with Messrs Gray & Co Ltd of West Hartlepool 14th July 1916.
Director of Railways states he has passed the test and will now be transferred 3rd Aug 1916.
Several other documents etc., are in this bundle but the writing is very faded.
1911 cen sees Ralph as Ralph L Turnbull 23, single, Apprentice Rivetter at Shipyard M.Gray born West Hartlepool 1888 living with parents John J Turnbull, Plater at Shipyard born East Hartlepool 1863 and Catherine Turnbull born East Hartlepool 1864 and his siblings George C, Florance E, John J, William S & Sarah J. All living at 15 Catherine St, West Hartlepool.
1901 cen sees a Ralph Luther Turnbull, 11yrs, Inmate, General Field Worker, North Eastern Reformatory, Castle Ward, Ponteland.
A possible death:
Ralph L Turnbull @ Hartlepool, Durham, Mar 1931 aged 41 years Birth date 1890
So, did Ralph and Janet divorce ??? or did they reconcile ??? did Janet remarry before marrying Joseph Watson, maybe that is why we are struggling to find a marriage for them in England ???
bendywendy
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There is a Joseph R Watson marriage to a Janet Turnbull 1941 in Shrewsbury :-\
Janet's death was in Shropshire and there is a Joseph Watson died 1957 Shrewsbury- birth 1883.
Could this be him? Would match the initial info re a death.
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Death: Peter Joseph Watson .. November 2005 @ Richmond upon Thames, Surrey, 78 years, DOB 8th Oct 1927.
Marriage: Peter Joseph Watson & Beryl M Harper @ Liverpool, Dec Q 1957
Working from the info of the marriage there are no children born in that area, woody16 do you have the names of these 2 children, if you have can you PM them to me, don't put them on here as its not allowed.
Still cannot find the birth reg for Peter Joseph or the marriage of Joseph/Joey/Ralph to Janet between 1920-1927 unless they didn't marry until much later.
bendywendy
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The mysteries continue ::) think I need a cuppa now
woody16 how are you related to these Watson's or have I missed something ???
b.
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B,
I have posted re a possible marriage.
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Hi heywood.
Your information is super exciting. I don't know where you get your information but is it possible that the initial "a" was mistranscribed from the original or are you looking at the original? I so want it to be him but I mustn't get ahead of myself. Thanks.
Scotiagirl
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I have amended it - there is no middle letter. It's just this iPad which adds an 'a' before a capital letter. (That's my excuse anyway ;))
I would love all this to be the right persons!
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hi bendywendy.
When you say in Ralph Turnbull's WW1 service records there was a request for a "separation allowance" are you saying that one or the other was requesting a marriage separation? I'm a little confused. In Ralph Watson's Canadian service record, there are many forms entitled "Militia and Defence, Separation and Assigned Pay Branch, Overseas Contingent" in which the "particulars of separation allowance" are listed. I assumed these were allowances given to the spouses who were "separated" from their husbands who were serving overseas. I'm thinking your "separation allowance" and the reason given are something entirely different?
Scotiagirl
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Scotiagirl,
I think that has been misread.
The official note states that 'no further separation allowance' will be made to Mrs Janet Turnbull on account of ...
Heywood
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Scotiagirl,
I think that has been misread.
The official note states that 'no further separation allowance' will be made to Mrs Janet Turnbull on account of ...
Sorry heywood is correct, my mistake.
b.
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Hay no problem.
It all boils down to her being cut off I guess because she's been naughty. Well, his behaviour hasn't exactly been stellar either. Now when did she hook up with Joey/Ralph....hmm....
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On the other thread it was said that he had died 1920 Vancouver ? and this son Peter was born Oct 1927 but where, so only a 6/7 years time span, pity the 1921 census isn't out yet.
b.
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Janet's relationship with Joseph may not have begun until mid 1920s.
I wonder if the new tree has the marriage certificate and Peter's birth certificate details re Joseph's occupation?
In scotiagirl's notes, there is a mention of a death in 1957. Is that the Joseph who died in Shropshire?
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heywood... new tree ?
b.
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heywood... new tree ?
b.
Woody's hand written tree. ??? (Passed on tree, I think. )
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Hi heywood.
My notes regarding the 1957 death..... Is this the same Joseph who died in Shropshire? Well that's the million dollar question I think. I have no idea where my information came from and nobody at Archives Canada seems to know either although it's handwritten on his service record and listed on his veterans death card file. The date of death on his service record is 17 November 1957. That's it I'm afraid. No indication of who provided that information, where he died, where he's buried or anything.
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The Shropshire registration was December 1957. :-\
Perhaps woody16 will be forthcoming with more information :)
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I think this thread and the other Joseph Ralph Watson thread should be merged together as it is difficult to work between both and the other Watson threads too, what does everyone think to this? If all agree I can ask the moderator to merge them both under Joseph Ralph Watson ?
b.
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That would be difficult re the number and order of messages.
It might be best to keep one open and lock others with a link to the open one.
Or, if you are just going to stick with Joseph Ralph, you could do a summary of information and dates and begin a new thread with that - again linking back.
It is becoming unwieldy and as you say flitting from one to another. I know I am lost when I get notification as to what I have posted ::) and where I am ??? :)
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We could get moderator to lock this one and keep the other open as that one has 14 pages, put the link on but one of us could copy n paste these few messages onto the other too, what do you think heywood ???
b.
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Or you could ask a mod to split this at the relevant point and merge from there with the 14 page one?
Oh my goodness :o. :)
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Looking back, that seems too complicated also!
Perhaps go back to locking one.
At the moment, as I see it, you are awaiting confirmation from woody16 re the marriage and death of Joseph plus perhaps Peter's birth.
That would hopefully confirm that it us the same chap. Or maybe prove otherwise.
That info is all on here is it?
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I have sent Ticker the mod a PM asking to lock this one and keep the other open. I will copy n paste the relevent info onto the other thread so we won't have to go back n forth, tis easy to miss something and then duplicate.
Everyone... NO MORE MESSAGES TO BE LEFT ON THIS THREAD PLEASE, INSTEAD CLICK ON THIS LINK AND LEAVE MESSAGES ON THE OTHER JOSEPH RALPH WATSON THREAD ... http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=685138.0
bendywendy