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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: julefamily on Wednesday 20 August 14 16:54 BST (UK)
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Williams Family; Rhonda Wales:Thomas Williams b: abt 1850: died Pennsylvania in 1887 he was a coal miner: 2 marriages: Helen Julia Bendbow (Bembo or Benbow) and 2nd wife Susannah Evans b: Wales abt 1864; Thomas had 2 sons with first wife: Daniel B: June 1883 Rhonda Valley; D: Clark Summit, Pennsylvania United States 1952
son: Issac Williams b: 1886 October, died Pennsylvania USA 1917.
Issac had 3 children with Alice Maud Hill (Hutchins) children born in Mayfield (Scranton) Pa. Clarence, Olive and Robert Williams.
Have no information on Helen Julia Bendbow:
Susannah Evans parents were Richard and Elizabeth Evans: Elizabeth Evans married a Thomas Bembo when Richard died: Susannah Evans Williams remaried Thomas Harris in Scranton Pa. 1900
Greatly appreciate any information on Thomas Williams and Helen Julia Bendbow. thank you
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Hello & Welcome
I don't suppose you have any parents names do you?
I can see just 1 Helen Benbow in Wales b. 1855 Newtown Montg'shire.
There's appears to be a marriage for her in 1876 Newtown but not to a Thomas Williams.
jim
Edit:
Not her as she's still in the UK in 1901.
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Yes, thank you for that information. I do not believe it is the same person. I have looked for a few years and have not been able to come up with the correct Benbow.
I did run across a few thomas Williams marrying a lady by name of Sarah Benbow (I believe Sarah was the daughter of Elizabeth and Thomas Bembo.)
My grandfather's death certificate states his mother's name was Helen.??? and ... family lore said Helen died in Pennsylvania somewhere.???
I do appreciate your looking into the matter for me. If you do see something that may be interesting, please let me know. Thank you again and have a great day.
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Do you have Daniel's birth cert. confirming Helen's maiden name ?
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I have Daniel (g uncle) and ggrandfather (Issac) death certificates. Daniel's death cert. states mother unknown: father's nickname "Sheenk Williams" Daniel (Danny) died April 18, 1953: Birth June 27, 1883: died in West Side Hospital in Scranton, Pa USA. Lived in Taylor Pa. Worked as coal miner in Pennsylvania at the Glen Alden Coal Co. as a laborer. Birth: Rhonda Valley, Wales.
Raised by step-mother: Susannah Evans Williams Harris in Scranton, Pa. I have Susannah Harris will stating Daniel was her son. (year 1942). Also WWI (year 1917) registration stating Daniel was living with his mother Susannah Harris.
Daniel and Issac were brothers:
Issac's death cert states:
mother: Helen Julia Bembow
father: Thos Williams
Birth: (conflicts some reports state Wales, some state Pennsylvania)
birth: October 24, 1886
death: October 4, 1917 Scranton, Pa.
Burial: Washburn Cemetery (Welsh cemetery in Scranton Pa USA)
I grew up only knowing my uncle Danny Williams and grandmother (Issac's wife) Alice Maud Hill (Hutchins) (Williams).
so my information is limited, except for info I have "dug" up. My father was a coal miner in Pennsylvania.
thank you for your interest. Unfortunately, I do not have a great deal of info. However, I do believe there may be a connection with a Thomas Williams in Tylorstown, Rhonda, Wales. which connects to a son Daniel T (born in Celynphia - Rhonda Wales) immigrated to Pennsylvania July 6, 1908. on SS Haverford.
all info I have. Thank you again
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I'm having a problem with the timeline.
Thomas b.1850 Wales
Daniel b. 1883 Wales.
Isaac b. 1886 ma. Helen Benbow.
Thomas d. 1887.
Daniel immigrates 1908.
What you appear to say is that Helen was alive in Oct.1886 & between Helen's death & his own in 1887 Thomas married Susannah Evans.
So Thomas would have to have had a son, emigrate, have another son, lose his wife, remarry & die all in the space of 4 years.
Not impossible of course but seems a tight squeeze.
There are 10 Daniel Williams births June-Sept. 1883 Glam.
2 have the wrong middle names, 7 don't have a middle name & that leaves just 1;
Daniel Thomas Williams:
Sep 1883 Pontypridd 11a 419.
Pontypridd was the Reg. District for Rhondda.
Might not be him as there's a Daniel Thomas Williams b. 1884 living in Rhondda.
The problem is that these are very common Welsh names & trying to find the right Daniel could be expensive.
There's just 1 Isaac Williams born Glam. Sept. - Dec. 1886:
Dec 1886
Williams Isaac Cadwaladr Pontypridd 11a 477
If this is him then the timeline is even tighter.
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hello jim1
Yes, the timeline does seem very tight. However I know that (according to my deceased mother) that Thomas tried to raise the boys by himself but could not, therefore, he remarried. I would believe that the Isaac born in Cadwaladr, Pontybridd could be the correct Isaac as the dates do match (Oct 24, 1886) registered Sept - Dec 1886.
I cannot find any records here in the US for Thomas between 1886 and 1887. I have found the records for Susannah (I know it is her, by address, the will and mention of Daniel). She also buried Isaac from her home in 1917 and I have newspaper announcement of death and burial. Also, my father , Clarence, (his father was Isaac) said his father died from typhoid fever when he was about 8 years old and said his father Isaac was raised by Susannah Harris. I also have the marriage license of Susannah Williams to Thomas Harris which states her first husband died Jan 5, 1887. But does not state if he died in the USA or Wales.
The only conclusion I can come to is: Helen passed shortly after the birth of Isaac in Wales. Thomas remarried Susannah,, Then Thomas passed. Susannah may have brought both boys to USA by herself and remarried in Scranton, PA USA. This does make sense to me: since I could not find burial or death information on Thomas in Pennsylvania with the death date of Jan 5 1887.
Susan's mother and step-father lived in Scranton-
susannah mother: Elizabeth ? Evans Harris
Susannah father: Richard Evans
Susannah step-father: Thomas Bembo (Bendbow - Bembow - bembow)
This is why my brick - wall has been so difficult. You are an angle for getting me this far along. I actually never thought that Thomas may have died in Wales and she immigrated with the 2 boys.
You are certainly earning your angel wings. I cannot tell you how great it is commuting thoughts to someone and getting a response. My heart is very grateful. thank you
Is there a web site to check deaths in Wales.? Or nearby cemeteries?
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Hello jim1
the other thought I just had was: perhaps Susannah left for America without the children and they joined her later . ???
Which then of course Daniel and Isaac would be raised by family members ???
There is a Isaac Williams in the 1901 census: Living in Tylorstown. He is 9 years old.
I know there was a Thomas Williams living in Tylorstown. A Daniel T Williams born in
Celynphic Rhonnda (his father Thomas lived in Tylorstown in 1908).
Unfortunately, neither Isaac or Daniel had middle names as far as I know, but they could have dropped them.
I guess I will just have to keep on plugging along until that brick wall falls apart. Have a good day/evening
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Cadwaledr was Isaac's middle name not where he was born.
Doing the maths you say Isaac was born Oct. 24 1886 & Thomas died Jan. 5 1887 & within that 10 week period his 1st. wife died & he met & married Susannah.
I've researched 100's of families & never come across this scenario before.
What I can't find is Helen Julia Benbow, a death for Helen William after Oct. 1886, a marriage between Thomas Williams & Susannah Evans after Oct. 1886 & before Jan. 1887 or a death for Thomas Williams aged abt. 37 in the 1st. quarter of 1887 in Glamorgan where I would expect them to be.
Something doesn't add up.
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Hello
I do hear what you are saying. I can only go by the dates and records I have obtained here in the USA
Since I do not know any of the family (actually only my gr uncle and grandmother and of course Father) I do not have any other dates, or family names to hunt down.
I do know that Susannah was his 2nd wife. I do not know where/when/ they were married.
It is very confusing. But I do have death certs, death notices,etc for Daniel and Isaac and father's birth/death cert. WWI draft registration backs up the same information. All I know is that my Fathers family came from Wales.
I never intended that this would become a headache to anyone but me. I am sorry if you are as confused as I am.
Have a good evening. Sweet dreams.
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I realized that was his middle name after I looked up the info on line.
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Will have another look tomorrow.
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OK. There seems to be a good deal of misinformation with Daniel & Isaac.
The 1st. US census I can see Isaac on is 1910 where he says he was born Wales & immigrated in 1886.
I can't see Daniel on any US census but his draft registration says he was born USA 29/6/1883.
They can't both be right.
Can you confirm I have the right censii;
1900 Scranton Pa.
Thomas Harris b.1852 Wales
Susan Harris b.1862 Wales
Isaac Harris b.1885 Wales (Isaac Williams ?)
Gwynne b.1886 Penn.
Lewis b.1890 Penn.
Thomas b.1893 Penn.
Lizzie b.1896 Penn.
Viena ? b.1898 Penn.
1920 Scranton
Thomas Harris Head 67 Wales
Susanne Harris Wife 58 Wales
Clarence Harris Son 19 Pennsylvania
Margaret Harris Dau. 14 Pennsylvania
Robert Harris Son 12 Pennsylvania
1930 Scranton
Thomas Harris Head M 76 Wales
Susan Harris Wife F 67 Wales
Clarence Harris Son M 29 Penn. (Isaac's son ?)
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Hello Jim1
Good morning: Yes , I have the 1910 census and at that time he was living in Mayfield (scranton Borough) on Penn Avenue. The home was owned by his wife's mother: (Mary Ann Jones Hill)
His wife was adopted daughter of Mary Ann Jones. (Alice Maud Hill)
My father is listed as a girl (Clarence) however he was a male child (born 1908)
Isaac was a barber: His death notice stated he was a well known barber in Scranton.
Isaac was buried October 10 1917 Washburn cemetery (A Morgan Williams was one of his pall-bearers).
The only census I have Daniel listed on is: when he lived with my grandmother (Alice Maud Hill - Hutchins - Williams) Maud, as she was known was his sister-in-law. He lived with my grandmother since I was a young girl. After my grandmother Maud died he lived with my Aunt Olive Williams, Gasporeck, Zack. He died in Clarks Summit, Pa
I have seen conflicting reports on where they were born: Wales, Pennsylvania (and even in Daniels case Taunton and Conneciticut)???
I hope you had a good nite sleep and this problem did not sit on your mind. Thanks
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Jim1
I have located something which may be interesting. A Helen Williams (maybe Helen Benbow) died in Wilkes Barre (town outside of Scranton). She died and death recorder in First Presyterian Church on June 14, 1887. ? age 48: Buried in City Cemetery: (Isaac was supposedly born October 1886.) This may be a link. Isaac would only have been 7/8 months old.
I will have to see if I can find any announcements on death and family.
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I wondered if the death date of 1887 for Thomas Williams was a mistake & it was Helen that died that year.
Isaac says he immigrated in 1886 & Susannah in 1885-7 depending which census you look at but she also says she married 1890 not 1900 so Thomas Williams must have been dead by that time.
I have Isaac as Harris in 1900 with Susannah & married in 1910 also Susannah 1900-30.
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Could be a mistake; Helen's death vs Thomas death: however Thomas had to have died by 1890.
I looked up my copy of the marriage certificate for Susannah Evans Williams to Thomas Harris and it is indeed Sept 3rd, year 1890 that she married Thomas Harris. License 6802.
License states Jan 5, 1887 for her husbands death///??? Thomas Harris states his wife died Feb. 22, 1890 (so he married Susan 7 months after his wife passed)
About the immigration; have not been able to find documentation:
I do know that the 1910 census for Isaac Williams and Maud is not correct: it states isaac immigrated 1886 and Maund immigrated in 1887. however, i know Maud immigrated 30 of December 1885 in New York Harbor (but it probably was not documented until Jan 1 of 1886)
She immigrated on the SS Spain: along with Mary Ann Jones Hill, her children, and the nephews/neices of Mary Ann (last name Jones) - I do have a copy of that passenger manifest. They may have mix up the immigration dates?
I have a call into the Wilkes Barre City Cemetery to see if I can obtain the record of the Helen Williams buried there. Am going to put in a request to Find a grave to see if they have record of Helen in Wilkes Barre City Cemetery. I did find a notification for June 9, 1887 that an "Aunty" Williams died on Wilkes Barre Mountain.
Thank you so much - it is wonderful to have someone to "bounce" information to.
,
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Good luck with that although bear in mind 47 is a bit old for having a child.
Looking at the dates of births for Daniel & Isaac, according to them anyway I've come up with these:
Births Dec 1885
Williams Isaac Pontypridd 11a 433
Births Jun 1883
WILLIAMS Daniel Pontypridd 11a 365
Might not be your boys of course but if this was my family I'd want to see a positive I.D. of the mother.
You may not want to go to the expense & I believe the GRO charge about $20 per cert.
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The web site "Find a grave" did have a picture of a monument in City Wilkes Barre cemetery for Helen Williams: Born 1939 died June 14 1887.
It is a very old monument: There are no other names or dates on the grave marker.
Well, I do know there are some "older women" who have change of life babies. Maybe she is one. She would have been 47 yrs. when Isaac was born.
Well, the cemetery has not called me back yet. So.....
Have a pleasant evening.
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I still think the best way forward is trying to find the births of the 2 sons particularly as Daniel didn't know her name & the only way Isaac would have known would have been through his step-mother Susannah & she may have been wrong.
I've gone back to your first couple of posts & I'm focusing on these:
Elizabeth Evans married a Thomas Bembo
I did run across a few thomas Williams marrying a lady by name of Sarah Benbow (I believe Sarah was the daughter of Elizabeth and Thomas Bembo.)
Can you tell me a bit more ? Did these events occur in Wales or USA?
jim
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I think the dec qtr 1885 birth reg for Isaac Williams could be a different family. There's a baptism in the parish church of Ystradyfodwg 8 Sept 1885 for Isaac son of William & Margaret Williams. His date of birth is on the baptism - 22 August 1885, but there's no birth reg for him in sept qtr, so possibly registered right at the end of the 6 week period allowed & therefore in dec qtr.
:-\
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this looks to be Susan(nah) Evans with remarried mother in 1881 census
40 Brynwyndham Terrace, Ystadyfodwg RG11/5300 folio 81 pg 56
Thomas Bembo head mar 34 coal miner b. Tenbury, Herefordshire
Elizabath wife 45 b. Dowlais, Glamorgan
Isaac Evans stepson 22 coal miner b. Aberdare, Glamorgan
Margaret A Evans stepdaughter 19 housemaid b. Aberdare
Susan Evans stepdaughter 15 b. Llangynid, Breconshire
John Bembo son 16 coal miner b. Llangynid
Thomas son 13 b. Llangynid
Sarah J dau 12 b. Llangynid
Elizabeth dau 7 b. Langynid
John Morgan boarder widower 39 coal miner b. Llangynid
William Bessell boarder 26 b. Abercarne, Monmouthshire
possible marriage reg
Thomas Benbow sept qtr 1865 Bedwellty vol 11a pg 136 with Elizabeth Evans on the samepage
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the births of the Bembo children were registered at Crickhowell which covered Llangynidr. John was registered june qtr 1866, so it could be that the ages for Susan & John on the 1881 census are the wrong way round.
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That is exactly the same information on the Evans/Bembo family that I have.
Elizabeth: (possible maiden name Harriman- not positive )
Eliz Evans: 1st spouse: Richard Evans
Richard Evans: b: 1840 Wales d: unknown
2nd: Husband: Thomas Bembo b: 1874 D: Scranton USA January 19, 1918
Richard Evans: b 1840 D USA Scranton: 1918 (one of the family addresses:North Bromley Avenue Scranton Pa)
Elizabeth: B: 1842 D Scranton Pa USA March 23,1915
children:
Margaret A Evans
Isaac Evans
Susannah Evans
Thomas Bembo & Elizabeth raised the following children:
John Bembo, Sarah J Bembo, Elizabeth Bembo: Issac Evans, Margaret Evans and Susannah Evans
Elizabeth - Evans - Bembo died in Scranton Pa March 23, 1915
Wonderful to get affirmation on info.
thanks
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postscript:
I know in the past, I have found documentation of Thomas marrying Sarah J. Bembo.?
Don't remember exactly where in Wales. The names, Williams, Jones, Evans, are so common and confusing.
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looks like Richard was born rather earlier than 1840 & had been married before, & Thomas Bembo looks to have been born around 1846, not 1874.
1861 census
18 Brew Street, Fforchaman, Aberdare RG9/4065 folio 26 pg 46
Richard Evans head mar coal miner b. Merthyr
Elizabeth wife 26 b. Merthyr
Jane dau 14 b. Gellygare
Benjamin son 13 coal miner b. Gellygare
Mary dau 4 b. Aberdare
Isaac son 12 months b. Aberdare
marriage registration
Richard Evans june qtr 1855 Merthyr Tydfil vol 11a pg 488 with Elizabeth Herriman on the same page
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Don't really put much validation in the maiden name of Harriman for Elizabeth Evans Bembo
Children don't match up and ages don't match up.
Question: How can you get documentation from Wales when you may have volume and page #???
Also:
I have found a Thomas Williams that was on a ship's manifest traveling to Scranton, Pennsylvania and had a wife (Sarah J Bembo of Rhondda Watergalt.)
He seems to be traveling with two other gents: Arthur Lockley (occupation: barber) 9 Arthr? Rd Ystadd, Rhondda
and
David (Davies) W. Longher (occupation: electrician) his father's address 21 Bryn Terrace, Ystadd Rhondda Wales.
They were traveling on the SS Campia on September 11 1909. So this year (1909) leads me to believe it is not the correct Thomas Williams - ??? what do you think?
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only death registered at Crickhowell in the right period, no ages given on index at that time, so can't be sure it's the right person
Richard Evans march qtr 1864 Crickhowell vol 11b pg 107
Sorry, don't understand why you say children & ages for Elizabeth don't match. They do match for the census info & birth registrations in Wales.
???
Elizabeth in 1851 census
Gellygare HO107/2457 folio 188 pg 31
John Hereman head 62 iron miner b. Silworthy, Somerset
Mary wife 60 b. Llantwit Major, Glamorgan
John son 21 iron miner b. Gellygaer
Elizabeth dau 15 b. Merthyr
Baptism in Merthyr Parish Church 1 Nov 1835 for Elizabeth, daughter of John & Mary Hereman, John noted as miner and their abode Dowlais.
The enumerator did a good job of hiding them in the 1871 census
Llangunider, Breconshire RG10/5584 folio 90 pg 17
Thomas Thembo head mar 28 coal miner b. Tenbury, Worcestershire
Elizabeth wife 35 b. Dowlais, Glamorgan
Mary Evans stepdau 15 b. Aberdare, Glamorgan
Jacob Evans stepson 12 b. Aberdare
Margaret Evans stepdau 10 b. Aberdare
Susannah stepdau 8 b. Llangunider
John Thembo son 5 b. Llangunider
Sarah J dau 2 b. Llangunider
There are later marriages for a Sarah J Bembo/Benbow, but bit late for the one born around 1869, and not to a Thomas Williams. One in 1916 to William H. Williams.
The cheapest option is to order certificates direct from the GRO & pay with a credit card
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
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Thank you: I did not have the 1871 census under name of Thembo.
That mystery solved. Also did not have the child name of Jacob Evans. Also, I have an Isaac Evans and this census does not? both are listed for the birth year 1859: Twins? maybe one passed?
or names not registered correctly.??? Jacob and Isaac both bibical names.
Do you have any suggestions of finding Thomas Williams marrying Helen Julia Bembow?
Also, any suggestions for finding how the Bembo's and Williams migrated to USA?
Thanking you very deeply for all your assistance.
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Had to do some running around yesterday so playing catch up at the moment.
I'm getting the impression that Daniel & Isaac Williams are closer to Susannah other than just step-children. Benbow isn't a common name in Wales & even less so in Glamorgan & having a Benbow connection earlier seems too much of a coincidence.
I think the name Helen Julia is wrong. This information was given at Daniel's death in 1952 by someone else who probably wasn't even born when Helen died.
Although there are Daniel's & Isaac's in Glamorgan who could be the one's from the birth certs. I can't see any other way past the problem other than getting them & finding out.
They say they were born in the Rhondda June 1883 & Oct. 1885 resp. but we don't know how accurate that is but it's all you have to go on.
any suggestions for finding how the Bembo's and Williams migrated to USA?
Susannah says she immigrated 1885-7 & probably came with the Benbows.
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Aberdare isn't in the Rhondda valleys (there are two Rhondda Fawr and Rhondda Fach) - it's in the Cynon Valley (pretty close less than 5 miles if you go over Maerdy mountain)
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the family were in the Rhondda for the 1881 census though, before the supposed birth of the two sons.
I think the 1871 is a bit of a muddle, surname wrong - it does have Thembo on the original. I suspect Jacob is Isaac & the enumerator was having problems with handwriting.
I can find no trace of a Thomas Williams marrying a Helen Julia Benbow, or of a Helen Julia Benbow or variant.
At that time, there was no record kept of people leaving the UK, that only started in the 1890s. So looking at the US end is the only option.
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The OP has a comprehensive collection of data from the USA so I don't think there's much else to gain from looking for more.
The clincher is going to be getting the right birth certs. for Daniel & Isaac but that's easier said than done.
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...within that 10 week period his 1st. wife died & he met & married Susannah.
I've researched 100's of families & never come across this scenario before.
A few weeks longer than 10 weeks but my 3rd great grandmother was buried on 2 Feb 1845 and her husband married again on 12 May 1845 :o. And only one 12 year old daughter to look after.
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Jim1: Glad to hear from you. I believe I will try to purchase birth cert for Isaac and Daniel (Pontypridd) and see what that shows me. I am also believing that the mother of Isaac and Daniel is not Helen Benbow. If I can't learn anything from the birth certs, then I am back up against that brick wall. Perhaps It is not meant that I find out who my father's ancestors are.
As far as the connection to the Bembo's. I also came to the same conclusion, it did not seem to be a popular name like Williams, jones, etc. And I also wondered where/why the connection Susannah and Helen came to be. At first I thought maybe they were the children of Thomas Williams and Sarah Bembo and Susannah cared for them after her sister died. However, I know that there is a Sarah J Bembow and Thomas Williams in Scranton that had many children none which were named Isaac or Daniel.???
I will send for birth certs and see what happens. As well as follow up with Helen Williams buried in Wilkes Barre Cemetery.
Thank you for your help , you have been a good angel.
8)
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Then I'll rest my wings until you get back to us with some news.
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This might be of interest - part of an obituary in the Rhondda Leader of 30 January 1904.
Death of a Former Rhondda Inhabitant
he American papers announce the death of Mr. John Bembo, who at one time worked as a collier at Tynewydd, Treherbert and later resided at Gelli Row, Ystrad. The death occurred at Peckfield, Lackawanna County. His brother is Mr. Thos. Bembo, 17, Bryn Terrace, Ystrad-Rhondda, and his sister is the wife of Mr. David Williams, Railway Terrace, Gilfach..... Mr. Bembo was 37 years of age and was the second son of Mr. and Mrs. Thos. Bembo, of Hyde Park, where he resided before coming here about 15 years ago. He married a daughter of the late David James, and he is survived by her and five children. 'Jack,' as he was known to all, was a quiet and good citizen of the borough...
...The funeral service was held on Tuesday from the M.E. church. Rev. J. S. Thomas conducted the service. A large number of friends attended. In- terment being made in Prospect Cemetery. The afflicted family have the sym- pathy of all in this their fourth bereavement in ten months. The pall bearers were A. U. Thorpe, David Evans, Thomas M. Jones, Frank Reese, Mr. Howells and William Griffiths.
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Also:
I have found a Thomas Williams that was on a ship's manifest traveling to Scranton, Pennsylvania and had a wife (Sarah J Bembo of Rhondda Watergalt.)
He seems to be traveling with two other gents: Arthur Lockley (occupation: barber) 9 Arthr? Rd Ystadd, Rhondda
and
David (Davies) W. Longher (occupation: electrician) his father's address 21 Bryn Terrace, Ystadd Rhondda Wales.
They were traveling on the SS Campia on September 11 1909. So this year (1909) leads me to believe it is not the correct Thomas Williams - ??? what do you think?
The address 21 Bryn Terrace is interesting, given its residents in 1911 (Bembos!)
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In fact looking back at the manifest it's Thomas Bembo not Thomas Williams travelling out to Scranton in 1909 (father Thos Bembo). There was some kind of prize draw in his aid in 1906 (according to the Tarian y Gweithwyr newspaper) so I guess it was to assist him to visit his family, given he was back by 1911.
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1901 census
17 Bryn Terrace, Ystradyfodwg RG13/5015 folio 150 pg 36
Thomas Bembo head mar 30 coal hewer below ground b. Tafarnabach, Monmouthshire
Sarah J wife 28 b. Talybont, Cardiganshire
Edward son 5 b. Ystrad, Glam
Elizabeth dau 2 b. Ystrad
;)
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marriage reg
Thomas Bembo march qtr 1894 Pontypridd vol 11a pg with Sarah Jane Evans on the same page
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I think some of the info from the ship's manifest has got a bit scrambled, given the misalignmet of names and addresses. Checking with census details - the following makes more sense
Owen Parry, miner, 39 b Wales. Wife Margaret Parry. Address Watergate, Ystrad Rhondda. Heading to 230 Ferdinand St, Scranton,
Thomas Bembo, miner, 38 b Wales. Wife Sarah J Bembo, address 21 Bryn terrace Ystrad Rhondda. Previously in Scranton, PA 1887 - 1890. Father Thomas Bembo. Heading to 317 Bromley Avenue, Scranton, home of friend T Williams
Davis (David) W Lougher, electrician 28 b Wales. father Mr Lougher, address 9 Arthur St, Ystrad Rhondda. Previously touring around the USA in 1905-1907. Heading to unclear address -friend Mr Wilkinson
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Mable:
Thank you for the info.
Thomas Bembo lived at 317 N Bromley Av Scranton in 1904, 1902, 1898 (1898 listed as 314 N Bromley Av). Scranton City Directories. Scranton Directory for 1909 states Eliz Bembo (widow of Thomas) living at 317 N Bromley Av; Scranton, Pa.
You state Thos Bembo visit to T. Williams (a friend) at 318 Bromley Ave, Scranton, Pa. on ship manefest for 1909. This could be son of Eliz and Thomas Bembo coming over to the USA. His father already passed.
WOW:
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Mable: Could you please send attachment for the ship manifest stating Thomas Bembo visiting T Williams at Bromley St Scranton.
Would appreciate that very much.
Have a wonderful day.
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I hope this link to a page from the Elis island site works. it's page 2 of the entry - Thomas Bembo is
passenger no 26 on the page, but as you can see the entries are a bit skew. And apologies - the friend is T Edwards not Williams (too many welsh surnames!). ALso may be a red herring, the firend could be for the next in the list (David Lougher)
http://www.ellisisland.org/EIFile/popup_weif_5a.asp?src=%2Fcgi-bin%2Ftif2gif.exe%3FT%3D\\\\192.168.100.11\\images\\T715-1337\\T715-13370232.TIF%26S%3D.5&pID=101678080378&name=Thomas%26nbsp%3BBembo&doa=Sep+18%2C+1909&port=Liverpool&line=0026
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It puts the name first & then the address so he's visiting his father Thomas Bembo of 317 Bromley Ave. Scranton & he was last in the USA 1887-90.
The one's below are for someone else.
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Jim1 = Thank you.
I came across a newspaper announcement today for a Eliz Williams 31 years old who passed away suddenly: Leaves behind a husband and 2 children. Arrived from Wales just 2 months earlier and was sickly. She died Nov 18, 1885 in Wilkes Barre, Pa (town next to Scranton).
She was the daughter of William Thomas.
Have not been able to locate her marriage and husband's name.
It means she would have immigrated about Sept 1885.
I have ordered the birth certs from GRO for both the Daniel and Isaac Williams.
We'll see Have a good evening.
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May not be the same family. There were a lot of Welsh in the area so you will see a lot of similar names.
There's seems to be a lot of immigration around the mid 1880's & I'm wondering if there was some active recruiting going on.
Maybe Pennsylvania had a shortage of miners.
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Received the birth information from the GRO office. Now more confused than ever.
Isaac and Daniel - states father as William Williams (same name for both children)
Mother: Different mothers and different birth dates from what I have:
Daniel: mother: Elizabeth (Mooris ?) Williams - birth date: March 25, 1883 : 20 Seymour St. Mountain Ash, Wales registered May 7, 1883
Isaac: mother: Margaret Morgans : birth date: August 22, 1885 (looks like Ton u.s.D. Ystradyfodwg)
registered October 1, 1885 -
Any suggestions where I should go from here?
Thank you all, for your assistance
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this looks to be the family for the first birth
1881 20 Seymour Street, Mountain Ash, Llanwonno RG11/5295 folio 25 pg 43
William Williams head mar 31 coal miner b. Breconshire, Ystradgerlais
Elizabeth wife 36 b. Carmarthenshire
John son 9 b. Ystradgerlais
Maria dau 6 b. Glamorganshire, Cwmtwrch
Gwylim son 5 b. Glamorganshire, Mountain Ash
The Breconshire place name should be Ystradgynlais, but census shows Ystradgerlais.
This Daniel is on the 1901 census with his parents at RG13/5006 folio 90 pg 33, so not your Daniel.
Is there a street address given for the birth of Isaac & I'll have a look for that family? USD is Urban Sanitary District.
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On Isaac's birth certificate: States the address (looks like Ton u.s.D) Ton Ystradyfodwg is all that is noted.
Don't know what the u.s.Dr means??/
thank you for helping.
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as I mentioned, USD is Urban Sanitary District
http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/types/status_page.jsp?unit_status=USD
1891 43 Marian St, Clydach, Ystradyfodwg RG12/4427 folio 11 pg 18
William Williams head mar 32 coal miner b. Breconshire, Gwenddol
Margaret wife 36 b. Breconshire, Llywel
William H Morgan son 12 b. Breconshire Llanfihangelfechan
Isaac son 5 b. Glam, Ystradyfodwg
John Thos. son 3 b. Ystradyfodwg
Mary Ann dau 10 m b. Ystradyfodwg
Thos. brother 30 coal tipper b. Gwenddol
Margt. Davies niece 13 b. Llywel
+ 4 lodgers
William aged 12 born before the marriage, so helpfully has his mother's maiden name. Stiil in Wales in 1891, so not your Isaac either.
::)
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Thank you for the information. You are very sweet to do this for people. I guess I am up against another brick wall. Seem to be running into a lot of brick walls lately.
;D
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Sorry for not replying sooner I've been away.
I think these 2 we're your best bet based on the limited info you had.
I believe their births are there but owing to the cost it would be unrealistic to try & find them.
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Jim1
Thank you for replying. It doesn't seem that these 2 birth records from GRO are my 2 family members. Daniel and Isaac do not show up on the same census together, nor do their birth dates match the birthdates I have. I cannot find them on USA census together either.
As brothers, they should be somewhere unless they had different birth mothers and were raised separetly. Which is entirely possible. But even at that, Isaac's death certificate states his father's name is Thomas. And Daniel's death certificate staes his fathers name was "Sheenk" (nickname?)
Hope your travel was for fun and you enjoyed yourself.
Have a great day.
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;)
Well, a part of the mystery has been solved. Found birth certificate for Daniel Williams. Need some help in locating his father's family.
Daniel Williams: Born Tynewydd, Glamorgan,Wales: 29 June 1883 -18 April 1953 Scranton, Pa
Father: Jenkin Williams 1862-1887 death in mining accident Dinas Steam Colliery (Dinas, Glamorganshire, Wales) Died 4 or 5 January 1887;
Mother: Susannah Evans 1862-1942 death in Scranton Pa
Brother: Isaac Williams Tynewydd, Glamorgan, Wales 24 Oct 1886 -8 Oct 1917 (death in Scranton, Pennsylvania USA
Can anyone help me in locating Jenkin Williams 1862-1887 family - parents, siblings location of grave, etc?
I will be very grateful for any help provided. Thank you
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well, there's more than one Jenkin Williams born around 1862 in that area at the time. The marriage certificate isn't one that is available via online parish registers. The cert would confirm name & occupations for fathers of bride and groom
Jenkin Williams june qtr 1883 Pontypridd vol 11a pg 646a with Susannah Evans on the same page
This 1881 entry looks likely, another Jenkin with father James is on the 1891 census & his father is living with him. But there may have been another Jenkin who moved into the area between the census & the marriage.
50 Scott St, Ystradyfodwg RG11/5300 folio 66 pg 25
Margaret Williams head widow 48 housekeeper b. Aberdare
Evans son 22 coal miner b. Mountain Ash
Jenkin son 19 haulier colliery b. Mountain Ash
Mary A dau 17 servant domestic b. Ountain Ash
Thomas son 14 coal miner b. Ystradyfodwg
John son 12 b. Ystradyfodwg
Matilda dau 6 b. Ystradyfodwg
Aneurin son 4 b. Ystradyfodwg
If this the correct family, the birth reg for Aneurin june qtr 1876 Pontypridd vol 11a pg 417 gives mother's maiden name of Richards., but there isn't a birth reg for Matilda with the same maiden name. Possible birth reg for Jenkin William Williams dec qtr 1861 Merthyr Tydfil vol 11a pg 271 mmn Richards.
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1871 census Upper Selsig Row, Ystradyfodwg RG10/5383 folio 35 pg 64
Daniel Williams head mar 42 collier b. Llantrisaint
Mary wife 35 b. Aberdare
Anna dau 17 b. Mountain Ash
Evan son 14 Doorboy b. Mountain Ash
Jenkin son 10 b. Mountain Ash
Mary Ann dau 7 b. Mountain Ash
Thomas son 5 b. Ystradyfodwg
John son 2 b. Ystradyfodwg
1861 3 Napiers St, Mountain Ash, Llanwonno RG9/4048 folio 4 pg 1
Daniel Williams head mar 34 coal miner b. Eglwysilan
Margret wife 29 b. Aberdare
hanha dau 7 b. Aberdare
Thomas son 4 b. Eglwysilan
Evan son 1 b. Llanwonno
Possible marriage Daniel Williams dec qtr 1853 Merthyr Tydfil vol 11a pg 654 with Margaret Richards on the same page.
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;) Thanks I will check them - Those are all family names - so good chance that is the correct family. Appreciate the help. Take care. :)
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ordered cert - no reply yet from UK
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ospry
Jenkin died in 1887 so he would not be on the 1891 census
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julefamily has confirmed to me by pm that marriage cert shows Jenkin's father as Daniel, collier, deceased. Jenkin was 22 at marriage 31 May 1883 & Susannah 19, her father David, collier alos deceased.
I'll retype the 1871 entry to correct my error above
Upper Selsig Row, Middle, Ystradyfodwg RG10/5383 folio 35 pg 64
Daniel Williams head mar 42 collier b. Llantrisant
Margaret wife 35 b. Aberdare
Anna dau 17 b. Mountain Ash
Evan son 14 doorboy b. Mountain Ash
Jenkin son 10 b. Mountain Ash
Mary Ann dau 7 b. Mountain Ash
Thomas son 5 b. Ystradyfodwg
John son 2 b. Ystradyfodwg
birth regs
Hannah Williams sept qtr 1854 Merthyr Tydfil vol 11a pg 347 mmn Richards
Evan Williams june qtr 1859 Merthyr Tydfil vol 11a pg 315 mmn Richards
Jenkin William Williams dec qtr 1861 Merthyr Tydfil vol 11a pg 271 mmn Richards
Mary Ann Williams march qtr 1864Pontypridd vol 11a pg 286 mmn Richards
Thomas Williams june qtr 1866 Pontypridd vol 11a pg 332 mmn Richards
John Williams sept qtr 1868 Pontypridd vol 11a pg 287 mmn Richards
Matilda Williams dec qtr 1873 Pontypridd vol 11a pg 360 mmn Richards
Aneurin Williams jun qtr 1876 Pontypridd vol 11a pg 417 mmn Richards
Possible death reg
Daniel Williams 53 sept qtr 1880 Pontypridd vol 11a pg 204
1891 census 96 Llewellyn St, Home Penrhys, Ystradyfodwg RG12/4428 folio 144 pg 59
Evan Williams head 34 coal miner b. Mountain Ash
Margaret mother widow 69 b. Aberdare
John son 20 coal miner b. Blaencwm
Aneurin son 15 coal miner b. Blaencwm
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if that is the correct death reg for Daniel, he also was killed in an accident - under Ferndale
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3364312/3364316/64/
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I'd been looking for Margaret's family, found a possible family & then realised they were sharing a house with Daniel & Margaret in 1861.
1861 3 Napier's St, Mountain Ash RG9/4048 folio 4 pg 1
Mary Richards head widow 53 sinker's widow b. Aberdare
Elizabeth dau 18 b. Aberdare
Jenkin R son 12 blacksmith b. Aberdare
Catherin dau 8
1851 Mountain Ash HO107/2460 folio 111 pg 1
Thomas Richards head mar coalpit sinker b. Aberdare
Mary wife 42 b. Aberdare
Margaret dau 19 b. Merthyr
Ann dau 17 b. Merthyr
Elizabeth dau 8 b. Merthyr
Jenkin son 2 b. Aberdare
Catherine dau 1 month b. Aberdare
John Beynon lodger 22 collier lab b. Breconshire, Defynnog
1841 Pen Wain Fawr, Merthyr Tydfil HO107/1415/7 folio 27 pg 7
Thos Richards 30 sinker
Mary 32
Margaret 10
Ann 7
//
Margaret Richards 66
Mary 34
all born in county
birth reg Jenkin Richards jun qtr 1849 Merthyr Tydfil vol 20 pg 443 mmn Meyrick
Marriage in the parish church of Merthyr Tydfil 5 July 1830 for Thomas Richards & Mary Meirick, both marked.
Possible death reg for Thomas Richards age 50 dec qtr 1860 Merthyr Tydfil vol 11a pg 152.
Inquest into his death
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3381492/3381499/39/