RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: Gilby on Thursday 21 August 14 14:32 BST (UK)
-
My ggg grandfather Mathew Browne married a Margaret Delaney in St Peters, Dublin. The Irish church records site had given me the date of 21st Nov 1841, but today I found that it was in October, not November that they married:
[Dublin Evening Mail, 22nd Oct 1841] October 21, at St Peter's Church, by the Rev. B. C. Browne, Matthew Browne, of the city of Dublin, Esq., to Margarette, daughter of Matthew Delaney, of the county of Cork, Esq., deceased, and grand-niece of the late P. Delaney, Esq., of Glengariffe, and of Castle Lough, Killarney.
I’m completely new to this Delany family. I’m interested if anyone has any connections. Who was Matthew Delany of Co. Cork? Who was “P. Delaney of Glengariffe, and of Castle Lough, Killarney” and why did he deserve special mention? Does anyone know anything about Castle Lough or Glengariffe?
Thanks
-
Some progress at last!
It appears that a Patrick Delany of Glengariff was married to a Mary Lawlor whose father was Dr. James Lawlor of Castlelough, Killarney. Therefore I think this pair are probably the parents of “P. Delaney, Esq.” and grandparents of my gggg grandfather Matthew Delaney.
Betham Genealogical Abstracts:
371/ Delany Darby of Glengariffe, Co Cork, Gent. To Patrick Delany the son. Admon granted 5 day June 1756.
Betham Genealogical Abstracts:
Pat. Delany of Glennygarriff in Co Cork Gent. 31 Oct 1767 . 2 March 1768.
Wife Mary Lawlor
Daughter Honora
Daughter Mary
Son James
Daughter Elizabeth
Eldest son Darby Delaney
Betham Genealogical Abstracts:
231 Lawlor James Killarney, Co Kerry Esqr Dr of Physick - dated 14th Novemr 1771 - [decd?] 7th March 1772 - daur Mary Delaney - son James.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJW-P382?i=345&cat=185720
Deed dated 25th Apr 1772 between 1st Henry Sheared of Cork City, 2nd James Lawlor of Killarney, Co Kerry, Esq., son of James Lawlor late of Castlelough, doctor in physick, 3rd Mary Delany of Killarney, widow and sole acting executor of the said Dr James Lawlor.
Will index:
Delany - Mary - Castlelough, Co Kerry – 1816
According to Illustrations of the Scenery of Killarney, “the name of Castle-lough is at present given to a neat little villa belonging to Mrs. Delany, the grounds of which are prettily disposed.” A Mrs Delaney was also apparently responsible for building Grenagh House west of Killarney in 1792. I think this is one and the same person because both properties were later owned by Denis Shine Lawlor, probably another descendant of Dr. James Lawlor.
I would really love to find another record to put a date to Mary’s death. Unfortunately I don’t think her will survives. However, a death notice might confirm she was the widow of Patrick Delany and with any luck might mention other connections.
-
Just FYI
Copy of confirmation of arms to the descendants of Denis Shine Lawlor of Castlelough, Killarney, and to his only son, Denis Alexander Shine Lawlor of Cambridge and Grenagh, Co. Kerry, May 30, 1891.
Dublin: National Library of Ireland, Genealogical Office: Ms. 110, pp. 137-8
-
Passport of Denis Shine Lawlor of Killarney, Co. Kerry, 1830-33.
Dublin: National Library of Ireland, Ms. 13,639 (3)
-
letter from John Cardinal Newman to D. Shyne Lawlor of Derrynane Abbey, Co. Kerry
Dublin: National Library of Ireland, Ms. 21,731
-
Costs of purchase of Derrynane Abbey Estate from Lord Dunraven for Daniel O'Connell, 1861
Dublin: National Library of Ireland, Ms. 13,633(4)
-
Hi Hallmark,
Yup, according to Burke’s, Denis Shine Lawlor of Castlelough and Grenagh House (born 1808) was the son of Denis Shine and Ellen Lawlor, daughter of Martin Lawlor of Killarney. Presumably he took the name Lawlor as part of a condition in someone’s will to inherit the Lawlor properties.
Two of his daughters married O’Connells. Isabella Ellen married Daniel O’Connell (grandson of the Daniel O’Connell) and Frances Mary married Daniel James O’Connell (son of Sir James O’Connell, and nephew of the Daniel O’Connell).
I haven’t found anything yet to indicate who Martin Lawlor’s parents were, but I’m guessing he was a grandson or nephew of Dr. James Lawlor of Killarney.
Gilby
-
Hi Hallmark,
Yup, according to Burke’s, Denis Shine Lawlor of Castlelough and Grenagh House (born 1808) was the son of Denis Shine and Ellen Lawlor, daughter of Martin Lawlor of Killarney. Presumably he took the name Lawlor as part of a condition in someone’s will to inherit the Lawlor properties.
Two of his daughters married O’Connells. Isabella Ellen married Daniel O’Connell (grandson of the Daniel O’Connell) and Frances Mary married Daniel James O’Connell (son of Sir James O’Connell, and nephew of the Daniel O’Connell).
I haven’t found anything yet to indicate who Martin Lawlor’s parents were, but I’m guessing he was a grandson or nephew of Dr. James Lawlor of Killarney.
Gilby
.
.
Or part of Marriage agreement
-
How about:
1767 Patrick Delany of Glangariffe, Co Cork
31st October 1767 Proved 30th April 1776
Wife Mary Lawlor
Dau Mary D
Son James D
Dau Elizabeth
Son Darby D
Dau Honora
---Mary
---Elizabeth - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89LW-6J3F?i=1051&cat=224404
1774 Jerry Delany of Glangariffe, Co Cork
Mary Mahony ors Delany (wife of Andrew Mahony) the lawful sister
Admon granted 23rd June 1774 - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9LW-2ZQ4?i=715&cat=224404
AND A COUPLE OF DEEDS:
Memorial: 180019 5th March 1770 Andrew Mahony of Clahan
“Mary Delany of Glangariffe in the County of Corke of the sec part and James Mahony of Clahan aforesaid and Hugh Sullivan of Coonane in the sd County of Corke Gent of the third part” - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSH3-MQ8Y-R?i=329&cat=185720
Memorial: 509645 22nd February 1820 Danl Lawler late of Killarney in the Coy of Kerry then of the City of London Esq
“Jas Lawler of Caherdiane in the sd Coy Esq brother of the sd Danl of the second part & Pierce Mahony of Woodlawn in the sd Coy Esq of the third part Reciting that the sd Danl Lawler was then by virtue of the last will of Mrs Mary Delany late of Castlelough in the sd Coy entitled to a reversion” of various lands including Castlelough - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJS-SKH2?i=163&cat=185720
-
Memorial: 1839/15/241 14th August 1839 Mary Anne Lawlor of Castlelough
“in the County of Kerry widow and Executrix of the last will and Testament of Martin Lawlor late of Killarney in the Coy of Kerry” Reconveyance of a mortgage. Pierce Mahony is an executor, Daniel Mahony is paying out - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJW-WNM9?i=190&cat=185720
-
Possible brother to Mary:
LAWLER (LAWLOR), JAMES, Pen. (Mr
Ford), July 8, 1765. [N.F.P.] [of
the Middle Temple ; only s. of James,
of Killarney, Co. Kerry, Doctor of
Physic; Irish Bar 1773.]
from Alumni Dublinenses Page 485 http://digitalcollections.tcd.ie/home/index.php?DRIS_ID=LCN10378529_0003
-
I knew I'd forgotten something:
DELANY, MARY. Castle Lough, co. Kerry, widow.
9 April 1813. 12 March 1816.
To Charles Spread, Lansdawn Lodge, Co, Kerry, Esq., all my lands and property in trust to pay an annuity out of the rents of Killhenderrys and other lands bequeathed to my kinsman Doctor Alexr. Lawlor, for the support of the Poor House established by me in the town of Killarney, which is to be rent free; to pay an annuity to Mr. John Connell, Bowlingreen Street, city of Cork, for life; and to pay an annuity to Ellen Lambard and Mary Lambard, daughters of John Lambard, late of city of Cork, for life.
The farm called the Two Killkenderrys held under lease from Wm. Talbot, Esq., and my dwelling house in the town of Killarney, held under lease from David Murphy, subject to a lease made thereof to Mrs Deborah Coxam for her life and Of her sister Mary Anne Dias, to my kinsman Doctor Alexr. Lawlor, should he be still living, but if dead to my kinsman Daniel Lawlor, and in default to Anastasia Shea, daughter of John Shea, late of city of Cork, merchant, and in default to Ellen Shine, widow of Denis Shine and sister to said Doctor Alexr. Lawlor.
My house, demesne and lands of Castle Lough, Carrigfrehane, Ardagh, Ballydrisheen and Gortacannig, held under lease from my late brother James Lawlor, and the lands of Sheheree held under the Earl of Kenmare, and the field near the town of Killarney called Draum Hall which I hold under the Earl of Kenmare for his life, to my son-in-law Peter Trant, and after his decease to said Doctor Alexr. Lawlor, Daniel Lawlor, Anastasia Shea and Ellen Shine, and in default to my own right heirs. All the property in my house at Castle Lough to Peter Trant as heirsloomes'. Legacies to the servants in my employ at my death, equal in amount to their respective annual wages. Exors. said Charles Spread and Peter Trant.
Witnesses: Mathew Franks, York Street, Dublin, John Mahony, Dromore, John Hickson, Dingle.
699, 661, 479811
Mathew Franks (seal)
-
John,
Thanks very much for all that. I’ve just spent most of the day hunting through deeds before I saw your posts. You’ve got some more I hadn’t found yet.
One thing I can add is a more detailed extract from the will of Patrick Delany which I found on Findmypast:
Will - Thrift Genealogical Abstracts:
Prerogative will 1768
Patrick Delany of Glengariff in the Barony of Beare and Bantry Co Cork, Gent.
Wife Mary Delany als Lawlor £200 over and above the sum mentioned in her marriage settlement.
To eldest daughter Honora Delany £400 to be paid at age of 18 years.
To daughter Mary Delaney £300 to be paid at age of 18 years.
To son James Delaney the lands and farm of Knockenmuskullagh [?] which I hold by lease from Thomas Brown Esq commonly called Lord Kenmare together with the sum of £150.
To daughter Mary Delany £250 to be paide at age of 18 years.
To eldest son Derby Delaney my leasehold interest in Glengariff & Clanlaurence which I hold from Richard White of Bantry Esq, the said Derby ?? paying the several legacies making in the whole the sum of £13000 [sic., probably £1300 in original]
Executors:
Thomas Browne Esq called Lord Kenmare
Lancelot Crosbie Esq and Simon White Esq
Nealand Longfield Esq John Lombard &
Mary Delany als Lawlor
[Witnesses?]
Justin McCaulty
Hugh Lawlor
Daniel Delany
D[ated?] 31 Oct 1767
Patrick Delany
Proved 2 March 1768 by Mary Delany widow, relict and one of the executors named in said will.
I need to have a think and then post a summary of what we know about these Lawlors.
Thanks,
Gilby
-
Dr. James LAWLOR of Killarney (d. c1772)
- Mary LAWLOR (d. c1816) m. Patrick Delany (d. 1767)
- James LAWLOR (d. bef 1813) (married Dorothea Crumpe??)
In the deed of 1772 involving James and his sister Mary, a Dorothea Crumpe of Killarney was witness. In 1777 a James Lawlor married a Dorothea Crumpe (the same pair?). Dorothea, relict of the late James Lawlor, died in London in 1823 (as reported by the Southern Reporter and Cork Commercial Courier).
Mary Delany née Lawlor names her kinsfolk Dr Alexander Lawlor, Daniel Lawlor and Ellen Shine née Lawlor – Burke’s says their father was Martin Lawlor of Killarney.
Martin LAWLOR of Killarney
- Ellen LAWLOR (d. 1857) m. (1807) Denis SHINE
- Denis SHINE-LAWLOR (1808-1887)
- Martin SHINE-LAWLOR (c1813-1870)
- Mary Ann SHINE
- Alexander LAWLOR (d. 1825)
- John LAWLOR (d. 1825)
- Daniel LAWLOR (d. c1834?)
Ellen Shine nee Lawlor clearly outlived her brothers, and presumably also Anastatia Shea - that explains how Denis Shine Lawlor ended up owning the Castlelough lease.
The question is what was the exact relationship between Mary Delany née Lawlor and Martin Lawlor … siblings or cousins? The extract from the will of Mary’s father James only mentions his daughter Mary and son James, which makes it unlikely he was also the father of Martin (possibly brother or uncle).
There aren’t many birth dates to go on either which makes figuring out the generations a bit tricky.
The Mary Anne Lawlor of Castlelough, widow of Martin Lawlor, could be the grandmother of Danis Shine-Lawlor, but she’d need to have been pretty old…?
-
According to the Index of Irish Wills 1484-1858 there is an original copy of the will of Alexander Lawlor of “Castlough” dated 1819 at the NAI with reference number T/11341. I’ve tried searching the NAI at the below but can’t find a matching result.
http://www.nationalarchives.ie/search-the-archives/
I’m not overly familiar with their site – any tips?
-
There are multiple Lawler lines in and around Killarney. In the early 1800s there are three Ellen Lawlors having children eg Thomas Shine https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/7149d80299316
They don't show much in the Kenmare Manuscripts despite leasing land from the Brownes.
Anastatia Shea interests me, I'm not sure where she came into this discussion. I had thought she was the daughter of John Lawlor a corn merchant. His son John Shea Lawlor was born in 1798 and had several children including Anastasia Shea Lawlor. All the children moved to New Zealand where Anastasia died in 1906. Meanwhile Anastatia with a "t" died a spinster in Waterford in 1852 http://census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/dw/IRE_DIOC_007246544_00043.pdf, more details at https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/59284951/
-
The Mary Anne Lawlor of Castlelough, widow of Martin Lawlor, could be the grandmother of Danis Shine-Lawlor, but she’d need to have been pretty old…?
Aha!
Cork Examiner, 6 Jul 1846
Saturday morning, at Castlelough, in the 94th year of her age. Mrs. Lawlor, relict of the late Martin Lawlor, Esq., of Killarney, and grandmother of Denis Shine Lawlor, Esq. Her life had been characterized by hospitality, charity and piety.
Also found this…
Clare Journal, and Ennis Advertiser, 16 May 1839
In Killarney, Florence Lawlor, Esq. fourth son of the late Martin Lawlor, Esq. of that town.
-
John,
Oh damn, I’d forgotten about the church records on irishgenealogy. I just did a quick search and as you say there’s loads to go on.
Where are you looking at the Kenmare Manuscripts?
I’ll check out the John Lawlor corn merchant you mentioned. It would perhaps explain why Mary Delany née Lawlor mentioned Anastatia Shea in her will.
Thanks,
Gilby
-
Kenmare Manuscripts is at: http://www.irishmanuscripts.ie/servlet/Controller?action=digitisation_backlist
As is "The Correspondence of Daniel O'Connell Volume I 1792-1814"
"From James Lawlor1 to Merrion Square
Killarney, Sunday, 5 January 1812 My dear Sir, I received your letter of the 2nd inst. this night. ... I know it will give you pleasure to learn that it has been this day (through the interference and exertion of Dominick Rice) determined upon that a meeting of this county should take place at Tralee on the i8th inst. to give verbal and written (and I hope pecuniary) support2 to the General Committee and proceedings of the aggregate meeting at Dublin, and I have this night sent off a requisition to be inserted in the Cork Mercantile Chronicle of Wednesday next.3 I took the liberty of putting the name of your excellent brother James to this requisition because I was sure that he would not be offended at my doing so, and because I would not wish to publish a requisition of the Roman Catholics of this county without one of the name of O'Connell being signed to it. I shall write to you by next post more fully on the subject of your letter.
SOURCE : Fitz-Simon Papers
1 James Justin Lawlor (died 27 May 1836), son of Martin Lawlor, Killarney.
2 The meeting of 18 January did give full support to the Committee in Dublin and, also, a money grant as shown by their resolution, ' That we voluntarily contribute the sum of ^500 to be applied in the defence of our Invaded Rights ' (DEP, 23 Jan. 1812).
3 The insertion (CMC, 8 Jan. 1812) lists twenty requisitionists including Dominick Rice and James Lawlor."
-
and this is probably the corn merchant... https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/13f9f70559508
-
..and a random dump of Lawlor records
Exchequer Bill 22nd June 1717 John Connell vs John Lawler, Ann Lawler als Connell his wife, Richard Connell, James Conway & Edmond Conway
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=S2/IRE/NAI/007634833/01005&parentid=IRE/NAI/GENABS/00767713/1 - note that a lot of Lawlors lived near Tralee as per https://archive.org/stream/historyoffamilyo00lond#page/282/mode/2up/
Kerry, Oaths of Allegiance 1775
7th March 1776
Hugh Lawler, Killarney, MD. Doctor of Physic.
Dublin Evening Post
6th November 1790 Page 4
“To be sold together, or in parcels, for payment of Debts due by the late James Bernard, Esq; the Fee and inheritance of the following lands, situate in the county of Kerry, part of the estate of Francis Bernard, Esq.
Denominations Tenants Names Yearly Rent
Faranmanagh}
Knockreigh} Hugh Lawlor 465 0 0
Corobally}
Memorial: 336727 8th May 1798 Hugh Lawlor of Cloundonegan
“Eugene Mahony of Castle farm of Mullinge in sd Co Gent of 2d part and Elizth Mahony in sd Co spinster of the third part”. Hugh and Elizabeth are shortly to be married - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSH3-Q9N3-Z?i=293&cat=185720
Memorial: 406697 20th February 1808 Jas Magill of Tralee
“Hugh Lawlor of Killarney in sd County Juliana Lawlor spinster the daughter of sd Hugh Lawlor… Jno Mahony of Dromore & Richard Pierse Mahony of Furzepoint …………. & Jas Lawlor of Killarney Esq of the fourth part & Darby Magill (Jas’ brother) of …… lands of Ardcosta…sold release unto Jno Mahony and Richard Pierse Mahony all that and those the lands of Susso that moiety or half of the lands of Ardcosta & also the lands of Clonlyon & all other the real estate of the sd Jas Magill in the Co of Meath”. Witnesses include Alex Lawlor of Killarney doctor of physic Richard McGillycuddy of Tralee - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSH3-33FT-V?i=172&cat=185720
Memorial: 494017 21st January 1818 Lucy Mahony of Bellview Spinster
“Richd Townsend Herbert of Cahernane near Killarney and Charles Spread of Landsdown Lodge both in the Coy of Kerry Esq of the 2 part and Danl Mahony the elder Jno Mahony Wm Mahony and Danl Mahony the yr all of the Town of Killarney in the sd County of Kerry and Martin Lawlor of Killarney aforesd in the sd Co of Kerry Esq of the fourth part” Witnessed by Pierce Mahony Gent Attey & David Mahony both of Woodlawn near Killarney - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSH3-3ZZR?i=138&cat=185720
Memorial: 525857 18th November 1822 John Leahy of Killarney
“Peirce Mahony of Wood Lawn in said County Gentleman Attorney at Law of the second part Teresa Gallwey of Killarney aforesaid spinster of the second part and John Shea Lawlor of Killarney aforesaid Esquire of the third part”. Refers to annuities secured on lands in Gorteenroe (Cork) and Ballinalane (Kerry). Witnessed by Michael Lionel Gallwey Captain in the East India Company Service and Nathl Bland both of Killarney. Her full name was Teresa Maria Gallwey. Terence Gallwey witnessed the memorial. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJ7-M569?i=174&cat=185720
There seems to be a Gallwey connection as per "Frances Gallwey of Mardyke, nr Bantry. In her will 21 Dec 1802 she mentions her niece Mary Anne (the chief beneficiary), her kinsman Hugh Lawlor ( son of ___ Lawlor a dau of Henry Gallwey of Bantry), her cousin Mary Gallwey, ' Gerard ' and her bro Henry of Lisbon ' latterly deceased She d. unm Jul 1804 at Cork." and "Hugh Gallwey of Gurteenroe which, jointly with his sisters, he surrendered to Hugh Lawlor 10 Dec 1785" - "The Galweys & Gallweys of Munster" by Sir Henry Blackall.
Memorial: 536558 1st June 1824 John Shea Lawlor of Kilbwine
“Daniel Mahony of Dunloe Castle near Killarney” late marriage settlement for his youngest daughter Margaret. - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSKS-53JQ-J?i=138&cat=185720
-
Whoops missed some...
Memorial: 397993 29th January 1807 Michl Falvey of New Grove in the City of Cork Esq
“and Martin Lawlor of Killarney in the County of Kerry Apothecary of the other part”. Refers to deed of 27th October 1787 leasing a plot of land on the New Street.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJ4-Q7CM?i=535&cat=185720
Memorial: 397997 19th January 1807 Michl Falvey of the City of Cork Esq
“and Martin Lawlor of Killarney in the County of Kerry Apothecary of the other part Whereby the said Michl Falvey did Demise and set unto the said Martin Lawlor All that and those the house or tenement then in his posson in the New Street of the Town of Killarney….” Refers to deed of 13th September 1782
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSHS-B1X8?i=142&cat=185720
Memorial: 431842 12th August 1810 John Falvey of Killarney
“and Garrett Lynch of Killarney afsd Shop keeper of the other part Whereby the sd Jno Falvey did demise and sett unto the said Garrett Lynch all that & those ??? a plot of ground in the town of Killarney measuring in length 24 feet bounded on the plott ??? and on the south by Martin Lawler & Edm ??? Galwey situate on the ??? of hill being in the Coy Kerry afsd” etc Original lease was 30th July 1800
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSH3-336C-F?i=25&cat=185720
-
Kerry, Oaths of Allegiance 1775
7th March 1776
Hugh Lawler, Killarney, MD. Doctor of Physic.
So Hugh was a doctor too? I reckon he is probably the father of Honora Lawlor who married John Shea (and had a daughter called Anastatia) because of these baptisms:
1787 – Catherine Francis Lawlor – Killarney – Hugh Lawlor and Anastasia Gallwey
1787 – Hugh Lawlor – Killarney – Hugh Lawlor and Elizabeth Mahony
1789 – James Lawlor - ?? – Hugh Lawlor and Elizabeth Mahony (one sponsor was Honora Mahony)
1799 – Elizabeth Lawlor – Killarney – Hugh Lawlor and Honora Mahony
I think the date on the marriage settlement between Hugh Lawlor and Elizabeth Mahony which you found is actually 1783 which would fit in better with the above baptism.
Evidently we’ve got at least two Hugh Lawlors though, which makes it a bit more complicated.
Also, I don’t think I have an idea yet when Honora Lawlor may have been born…?
-
Baptisms for children of Martin Lawlor and Mary Ann McCarthy:
1785 – Martin Florence Lawlor – Aylmer
(one of the sponsors was Rev. Flor. McCarthy – a relative of Mary Ann’s?)
1787 – Mary Francis Lawlor - Killarney
1795 – Daniel Lawlor – Killarney
I was looking for Martin Lawlor and found the following site...
http://humphrysfamilytree.com/ORahilly/conn.html
...which has an extract which refers to Martin Lalor, “apothecary and tithe collector” lending money to Charles McCarthy in exchange the townland of Lisbabe. McCarthy may have been another relative of Martin’s wife, but apparently they fell out and ended up in a 7-year court battle. Anyway, I looked up the deeds and found this:
Number 274572
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJ4-HDZP?i=123&cat=185720
Film #008094164 – Image 124/595
Memorial of indented deed dated 13th Apr 1790 made between Charles McCarthy of Woodpark, Co Kerry, and Martin Lawlor of Killarney, Co Kerry, apothecary. In consideration of the sum of £300 Charles McCarthy granted to Martin Lawlor the lands of Lissbaby in the Barony of Magonihy, Co Kerry. To hold from the 1st Nov then just passed for the lives of Alexander Lawlor aged ten years, James Lawlor aged seven years, and Hugh Lawlor aged six years, sons to said Martin Lawlor. Witnessed by Simon Connell shopkeeper and Thadee [?] McCarthy Gent both of Killarney.
Number 293101
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJ4-W911-1?i=471&cat=185720
Film #008094180 – Image 472/591
Memorial of indented deed of lease dated 11th Sep 1792 between Charles McCarthy of Woodpark, Co Kerry, and Martin Lawlor of Killarney. Whereby the said Charles McCarthy did demise and grant the lands of Lissbaby to Martin Lawlor to hold during the lives of Alexander Lawlor aged about 12 years, James Lawlor aged about 9 years, and Hugh Lawlor aged about 8 years. Witnesses Batt. [?] Foley of Killarney, and Hugh Lawlor of Killarney, Doctor of Physick.
James is presumably the James Justin Lawlor mentioned in the O’Connell correspondence.
-
I’m intrigued by the mentions of Hugh Lawlor in the Galwey/Gallwey book. Presumably this is Hugh who was married to Anastasia Gallwey and/or his son.
The book says that Henry Gallwey of Bantry and his sisters surrendered Gurteenroe to Hugh Lawlor in 1785…
Number 249874
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSH3-MQF9-T?i=250&cat=185720
Film #007905706 – Image 251/621
Memorial of deed dated 10th Dec 1785 between Henry Gallwey of Gorteenroe, Co Cork, Gent., of the first part, Daniel Connell of Sarmons [?] Co Kerry, Gent and Juliana Connell otherwise Galwey his wife, George Gallwey of Gorteenroe Gent and Margaret his wife, and John Barrey of Killarney, Co Cork [?] Gent and Frances his wife, which said Julia, Margaret and Frances are sisters of the said Henry, of the second part, and Hugh Lawlor of Killarney, CO Kerry, Esq., of the third part. Henry, his sisters and in-law grant to Hugh Lawlor the land of Gortenroe in the Barony of Bear and Bantry to hold for the three lives mentioned in the lease from Lord Kenmare to the said Henry Gallwey, for 31 years from 1st May 1783. Witnesses Elizabeth Crotty, widow, and Timothy Sullivan, both of Bantry, John Hewson [?] of the City of Dublin, Gent.
I can’t see any marriage settlement between the Gallweys and Hugh Lawlor. The above Henry Gallwey’s mother was called Honora, so could be the source of the name on the Lawlor side.
-
You've dug up some great material.
Names are like DNA in Irish families of that period, Anastasia is almost certainly a string link. If you were called Philip you were probably a Sullivan.
The ages in the McCarthy lease are also very useful. Not sure about Humphreys suggestion that this McCarthy was a from a branch of the McCarthy More family, other sources have it as a branch of the McCarthy Reagh family.
Coincidentally the McCarthy More family had owned Castlelough. Sarah McCarthy's petition of 1670 says "Daniel McCarthy More married petitioner in 1647; and she brought her husband a great portion given her by her father, the Earl of Antrim. In consideration thereof her husband settled the manors of Pallace and Castlough, all being in Co. Kerry, in trust for himself and his wife for life, then one half for her heirs and assigns." - https://archive.org/stream/cu31924091769590#page/n725/mode/2up
Daniel's son Florence "granted Castlelough and other lands to his cousin german Denis MacCarthy, a son of his father's younger brother Florence of Carrigphrehane". Denis' grandson "Randal, for some cause or other, came down in the world, and sold Castlelogh to the Crosbie family in the reign of George II. He left his children uneducated, and badly provided for. In his will, dated the 24th December, 1760 (wherein he is described as "Randolph MacCarthy of Killelan, co. Kerry") , he leaves his real and personal estate to his wife Lucy McCarthy and his brother-in-law Samuel Dowse to pay his debts, and dispose of his property as they might think proper, for the benefit of his wife and children, and appoints his wife, and brother-in-law, and eldest son Samuel his executors." - All the above from Samuel Trant McCarthy's "The Clann Carthaigh".
-
Most of my ancestors were from the northern counties so when I saw references to the McCarthy Mors etc I didn’t know the significance. I’ve now done some Wikipedia-ing and see they were a once great Irish family. It is very interesting to see that Castle Lough was formerly a seat of that family.
I read somewhere that Castlelough was bought by Dr James Lawlor. This was presumably sometime in the mid-1700s. Another deed to hunt for!
Here’s another which I came across when I first started looking at these Lawlors, but didn’t copy down at the time:
Number 442381
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSH3-M9FD-4?i=480&cat=185720
Film #007905827 – Image 481/574
Memorial of deed date 8th Aug 1811 between Daniel Duggan of Knocknaseed, Co Kerry, of the first part, Denis Duggan of Knocknaseed, Esq., of the second part, Daniel Duggan of Mount Infant in Co Cork Esq of the third part, Hugh Lawlor of Killarney, Co Kerry Esq and Ellen Lawlor his daughter of the fourth part, Denis McCarthy of Rathroe, Co Cork, Daniel [Currin] of Rossirin [?] Co Kerry Esqrs of the 5th part, and Martin Lawlor and Js Lawlor borth of Killarney Esqrs of the 6th part. Whereby Daniel Duggan of Knocknaseed and Daniel Duggan of Mount Infant in consideration of the intended marriage of the said Daniel Duggan of Knocknaseed with the said Ellen Lawlor and other considerations in said seed convey all the lands of Lissheenacumity, Ranasop, Tureencahill, Knocknaseed, Butterfield, Lissheenacrohery and Lumbfield situate in the Barony of Magunihy, Co Kerry, and the lands of Manomine in the Barony of Duhallow, Co Cork, unto the said Ds McCarthy and Daniel Currin. Witnessed by Denis Shine of Factory, and Henry Howard [?] of Killarney.
Question is who was Ellen’s mother? Anastasia Gallwey, Elizabeth Mahony or Honora Mahony?
I’m gradually coming to the conclusion that these three were brothers:
Dr. James Lawlor, Killarney
Dr. Hugh Lawlor, Killarney
Martin Lawlor, apothecary, Killarney
Presumably they were educated somewhere – I’ve tried the Alumbi Dublinensis but no joy (just James’s son James who you mentioned earlier).
-
I don't have anything on those potential mothers for Ellen. On the Duggan's of Knocknaseed I have:
Memorial: 171249 17th June 1768 Richard Meredith of the Mount Meredith
“James Mahony of Batterfield” more lands of Inchy McManus otherwise Laharan and others for lives of “Dens Duggan eldest son of Henry Duggan of Knocknaseed in said County Gent aged about twenty years and of John Mahony third son of John Mahony of Islandahilly in the County of Corke Gent aged about fourteen years”– https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSH3-M2WJ?i=182&cat=185720
Kerry, Oaths of Allegiance 1775
7th March 1776
Daniel Duggan, Knocknaseed. Gent.
Henry Duggan was married to one of the daughters of Denis Mahony of Mount Collins, Co. Limerick. Whereas a Daniel Duggan of Knocknaseed married Ellen Mahony daughter of Cornelius Mahony of Kilmorna - she was born around 1710.
-
More random thoughts:
- James and his sister Mary are very different ages. When James went to Trinity in 1765 he would have been about 18, his niece Mary Delany got married in 1769.
- You posted that "Mrs Delaney was also apparently responsible for building Grenagh House west of Killarney in 1792". I think is the land Hugh Falvey left to his son Daniel in 1715. Daniel Falvey of Grenagh is a witness to a 1729 deed that is effectively Randall McCarthy More's will - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSHW-C96D-F?i=316&cat=185720. In 1750 John Mahony of Dunloe wrote "There are a great many Candidates putting up for Grenagh. Nobody knows here yet who'll have it." Maybe the Lawlors?
From the King's Inn Admission Papers - http://www.irishmanuscripts.ie/digital/Kings%20Inns%20Admission%20Papers%201607-1867/
LAWLOR, DANIEL, 6th s, Of Martin, Killarney, co, Kerry, and Mary Anne McCarthy;
over 16; ed. Maynooth; afftr mother. E 1814.
LAWLOR, JAMES. only s. of James, Killarney, co. Kerry, Dr. of Physic. M.T. H 1770. H
1773.
LAWLOR, JOHN SHEE, only s. Of John, corn merchant, decd., and Honora b 10
May 1798. E 1828. L.I., H 1828. T 18.30.
SHINE, MARTIN, 2nd s. Of Denis, Castlelough, Coy Kerry, decd. and Ellen Lawlor; over
16; ed. Oscott, Staffordshire; afft. John Shea Lawlor. 12 Holles Street. E 1832.
-
Thanks for the Kind’s Inn admissions etc.
Yes I’ll have to check out Grenagh. This is where I got the reference to it being built by Mrs Delany:
http://landedestates.nuigalway.ie/LandedEstates/jsp/property-show.jsp?id=1670
Are you descended from those Falveys?
I think siblings James and Mary were a similar age – I’m not sure which marriage in 1769 you’re referring to. Mary’s daughter Mary Ann married Peter Trant on the 19th July 1783 in Stranraer of all places (possible elopement?).
I started looking for a deed telling me when the Lawlors came into possession of Castlelough – I found one which showed Dr James was already “of Castlelough” in 1761 so I need to go earlier – in the meantime I found this:
Number 160843
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSH3-S393-D?i=681&cat=185720
Film #007905850 – Image 682/693
Memorial of lease dated 19th Jun 1766 between Arthur Crosbie of Dublin Esq and James Lawlor of Trinity College Dublin, Gent. The said Arthur Crosbie in consideration of rents paid, let unto the said James Lawlor the lands of Craigfrehane, Gortnacownigg and Farta then in the possession of James Lawlor Doctor of physick, for the lives of him the said James Lawlor, only son of the said Dr James Lawlor, Honora Delany daughter of Patrick Delany of Glengariff in the Co of Cork, and Darby Delany son of said Patrick Delany or the survivors of them. Witnesses Robert Harrison of Dublin and James Flood clerk to said Robert Harrison.
Edit: I see the next lease refers to Castlelough, but that'll have to wait till tomorrow night.
-
I'm not sure who is related to those Falveys though I suspect they may be descended from Hugh Falvey whose land at Faha was seized under Cromwell's Act of Settlement in 1652. He got it back under Charles II.
As for Mary I may be guilty of conflation I thought she was the Mary Lawlor from:
"Betham Genealogical Abstracts:
Pat. Delany of Glennygarriff in Co Cork Gent. 31 Oct 1767 . 2 March 1768.
Wife Mary Lawlor".
The lease below has Honora and Derby her eldest daughter and son.
-
I think I'm on the same page as you now. From the Delany perspective I think the family looks like:
1. Derby d 1756
1.1. Patrick d 1768 Mary Ann Lawlor d 1816
1.1.1. Darby
1.1.2. James
1.1.3. Honora under 18 in 1767
1.1.4. Mary under 18 in 1767, md in 1783 Peter Trant d 1832 son of Thomas Trant of Castleisland (“The Trant Family”)
1.1.5. Elizabeth
1.2. Jerry d 1774
1.3. Mary md in 1769 Andrew Mahony son of James Mahony of Cloghane and Catherine Conway
1.3.1. Elizabeth Mahony md in 1810 Patrick Moriarty (ST McCarthy, seems too late?)
1.4. Another brother?
1.4.1. Matthew d bef 1841
1.4.1.1. Margaret md in 1841 Matthew Browne
Looking at https://www.johngrenham.com/surnamescode/rc_fmp_map_full.php?surname=Delany I wouldn't be surprised if Derby was the first Delany in the area.
-
Yes, that is what I am thinking for the Delanys, but I’m not sure I’ve found proof that Jerry and Mary were definitely siblings of Patrick…?
I wonder who this Darby Mahony was:
Number 150342/229/268
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSN1-89Q5-B?i=467&cat=185720
Film #008088417 – Image 468/660
Memorial of lease dated 9th and 10th March 1764 between Lancelot Crosbie of Tubrea [Tralee?] Co Kerry, and James Lawlor the younger, of Dublin. Crosbie did grant to Lawlor the lands of Kilgalbin, Ballyknock and Ballygarran in the Barony of Clanmorris, Co Kerry, for three lives. Witnessed by Darby Mahony of Castlelough, Co Kerry and Alexander Smithwick, Dublin, clerk to Robert Harrison.
Number 169129/263/303
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSMQ-K7WM-9?i=506&cat=185720
Film #007763690 – Image 507/696
Memorial of lease dated 25th day of Jan 1768 between Lancelot Crosbie of Tubred, Co Kerry and Arthur Crosbie of Dublin, on the one part, and John Mahony of Dontoe [?], Co Kerry, Gent, of the other. Crosbies did let to Mahony the graisings of Glencullane, Breanly and Sarago, for 31 years. Witnessed by James Lawlor Esq and Darby Mahony both of Castlelough.
-
I had been hoping to find something to prove what the exact relationship was between Mary Delany née Lawlor and her Lawlor kinsfolk so I can properly add Daniel O'Connell to my tree. I’m about 70% sure Dr. James Lawlor was brother to Martin Lawlor the apothecary.
I’ve finished my search of Crosbie-Lawlor deeds. I didn’t find when Dr. James Lawlor first moved to Castlelough – I’d guess in the 1750s. I did find a few deeds which appear to show his son gaining more control over the property in the 1770s-80s, I think.
The legal stuff confuses me. Who is the mortgagor and who is the mortgagee…?
Number 216544/322/347
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJW-36WR?i=194&cat=185720
Film #008093388 – Image 195/383
Memorial of deed dated 29th Jun 1778 between William Arthur Crosbie of Dublin and James Lawlor of Dublin. Whereby said William Arthur Crosbie conveyed to James Lawlor in his actual possession being by virtue of the deed of lease for a year therein recited all that and those the twns and lands of Castlelough, Darkagalaner, Carrifasse [?], ?hane, Gortacounig, Farta, Droumdruslig and Gortderrykissane in the Barony of Magunihy, and the town and lands of Commego in the Barony of Iveragh, all in Co Kerry, subject to redemption on the repayment of £950 with the lawful interest thereof which said deed and this memorial are witnessed by Thomas Franks of Dublin and John Hewson of Dublin.
And then a couple of years later James leases Castlelough to his sister Mary.
Number 224886/330/551
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSMQ-K77Z-7?i=674&cat=185720
Film #008093696 – Image296/349
Memorial of deed dated 23rd May 1780 between William Arthur Crosbie of Dublin, on the one part, James Lawlor of Dublin, on the second part, and Mary Delany of Castlelough, widow, of the third. Whereby the said James Lawlor did demise and the said William Arthur Crosbie did confirm unto the said Mary Delany all that and those lands of Castlelough containing 20 Irish acres plantation measure, also part of Carrigfrehane commonly called the Orchard containing 3 acres 3 roods, with the consent of William Arthur Crosbie to whom the equity of redemption belongs, for 999 years at the yearly rent of 1 shilling by the yea……… years of the said term as he should live provided her eldest so………[cut off]….. or the said James Lalor shall be also alive and the rent of twenty pounds…………… [bottom corner of page missing]
And I think this is basically James Lawlor getting the freehold at last…?
Number 229609/339/488
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSH3-9Q6T-X?i=262&cat=185720
Film #007905697 – Image 263/349
Memorial of deed dated 12 Oct 1781 between Wm Arthur Crosbie of Dublin and James Lawlor of Dublin. Crosbie did release unto James Lawlor the towns and lands of Castlelough, Parkagalane, Carrigafrehane, Gortacourig, Farta, Droumdreislig and Gortderrykissane, Barony of Magunihy, and lands of Cummings, Barony of Iveragh, all in Co Kerry, now in the possession of said James Lawlor and his undertenants, as also the proviso or condition of redemption mentioned in the deed of release therein recited to hold to the said James Lawlor his heirs etc for ever subject to the proviso or condition of redemption therein contained. Witnessed by Thomas Franks and Valentine Cornwall.
In the few years after this up to 1785 James Lawlor seems to buy a lot more land from Crosbie – £2000-4000 involved. One of the leases refers to Wm Arthur Crosbie’s great uncle if anyone’s interested.
-
One thing to remember in all of this is that the Delanys and the Lawlors are Catholics. Technically they are not allowed freehold ownership of any property and leases of properties should not exceed 31 years. That all changed in 1782 when longer leases were allowed.
Before 1782 Catholic families leased property via Protestants. There was a hosier in Dublin called Samuel Windis who owned a lot of property in Kerry on behalf of Catholics so it's reasonable to believe that the Delanys and the Lawlors had "de facto" ownership of some land through their own agents.
The 1799 list of Kerry freeholders only has "H Lawler MD" of Killarney but no other Lawler/Lawlors. This is probably the Hugh Lawlor who died around 1824 and his properties passed to John Shea Lawlor, Anastatia Shea, Mary Margaret Lawlor, and Hugh Lawlor of Cork (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJ7-W39Y-M?i=28&cat=185720, https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJ7-W39F-L?i=190&cat=185720, lost the other link for now).
Given the use of the word "kinsman" in Mary Ann (Lawlor) Delany's will I don't think Martin's children are her nieces and nephews. Hugh's grandchildren might be considered as kinsmen. A while back I read that John Shea died when John Shea Lawlor was very young and that his mother moved back to Killarney so it is likely that he grew up in Hugh Lawlor's household.
As for the mortgagor/ mortagee, the Irish land-owners had a habit of borrowing against their land. In exchange for a sum of money the rents due from the land would be paid to the mortgagor. At any time the land-owner could reclaim the land by paying off the mortgage.
-
Returning to your posts on this page:
- Lancelot Crosbie was from Tubrid
- John Mahony of Dunloe leased lots of land west of Lough Leane, he died in 1780. He was the man who wrote in 1750 "There are a great many Candidates putting up for Grenagh. Nobody knows here yet who'll have it.". Also that year he wrote "Sister Lawlor got a young son last Wednesday. He is not much bigger than a Rabbit. I hear she has been very weak since, but I hope will soon get y° better of it."
- Darby Mahony may be a brother of John. Dennis & Darby Mahony of Dunlough (Dunloe) were captured by the British in 1745 when they were going to help Bonnie Prince Charlie.
Plus a few others you may not have seen:
Memorial 118418 23rd September 1755 Richard White leases property to Derby Delaney of Glangarriff - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJM-K955-Y?i=292&cat=185720
(HC Sept. 1772) - TO be sold together, or separately, the WOODS of Skehill, Coolranny, D……la, Droumdour, Dromclarig, Cap….ta and Glinlough, in the barony of Bear and Bantry, and county of Cork, all convenient to water carriage to any part of the world. Proposals to be made to Mrs. Delany, at her house in Killarney, who will declare the purchaser as soon as the value is offered, and give sufficient time for the cutting of them. - http://corkgen.org/publicgenealogy/cork/potpourri/corkancestors.com/Bantry.htm
Hugh Lawler is an apothecary in Killarney as of 1799: https://books.google.co.uk/books?redir_esc=y&id=vbtDAQAAMAAJ&q=lawlor#v=onepage&q=hugh%20lawler&f=false
Daniel Lawler is an apothecary in Killarney as of 1810: https://books.google.co.uk/books?redir_esc=y&id=vbtDAQAAMAAJ&q=lawlor#v=onepage&q=daniel%20lawler&f=false
Mary Delany's huband Peter Trant dies in 1832 (also see newpapers) https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J8BB-2JS More on Peter here - https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?id=1592646940813552&story_fbid=1608681765876736 including:
"Peter Trant - his Will 1832. Peter Trant of Belvidere Cottage, Cork. I leave my farm of Myrtleville to my nephew Thomas Abercrombie Trant, also to him my furniture, plate etc. In case my brother James should survive me, the interest of £800 which I allow him, shall on his death be paid to my nephew William Trant, my niece Anna Maria Payne, my niece Clara Colley and to Messrs Good and Clarke in trust for the use of my nieces Elizabeth and Anne Nicholson, to Peter Trant Payne, eldest son of my niece Anna Maria £50.
I appoint my nephew Thomas Abercrombie Trant executor of this my will signed 12th Feb., 1830. Peter Trant. Witnesses: Michael McDonnell, Johanna McDonnell.
Codicil made 25th March 1832. In consequence of death of my nephew, Captain Thomas Abercrombie Trant, mentioned in my said will, I devise to my brother Major General Sir Nicholas Trant all my interest in Myrtleville, Co. Cork. To my nephew William Trant £150, and to my niece Clara wife of said William £50. To Mrs Anna Maria Payne, my niece, £120. To Mrs Clara Colley £150. To Elizabeth and Anne Nicholson, my said grandnieces, £100 each. I give to Eliza, the widow of my late nephew Henry O'Shea, £50. I give all the residue of my property to my brother Sir N. Trant, and I appoint him sole executor of this my will.
Witnesses, Thomas Boister, Surgeon, 17, Queen's Buildings, Knightsbridge; Michael McDonnell.
Probate granted to Sir Nicholas Trant of 12, Holles Street, Dublin. 24th May 1832."
Memorial 1833/8/6 Names James, Daniel, Ellen Shine, Mary Ann, & Florence plus John Shea Lawlor - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJW-F9RV-P?i=366&cat=185720
Memorial 1833/17/174 Daniel Lawlor and Ellen Shine deed - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJW-8PD?i=344&cat=185720
Mary Ann daughter of Hugh died 1833 in Killarney, some newspaper reports give her a brother who was a Lieutenant in the East India Company
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&ved=0ahUKEwiH--vQvavbAhVpL8AKHdi0Cg0QFghGMAY&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.limerickcity.ie%2Fmedia%2F09%252014%252033.pdf&usg=AOvVaw0KKzBPwP4Isl4gZJBNENKc Which Hugh she belongs to I don't know.
I think the flurry of deeds in 1824 and 1833 correspond to the deaths of Hugh and Martin. James may have died as early as 1804, the will at http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D374642 was proved in the Prerogative Court of Canterbury suggesting that he died outside Ireland.
-
I’ve not had the chance to fully go through everything in your last post. Interesting notes about the restrictions on Catholic property. The Brownes the Delaneys married into were Protestants – I don’t know if Margaret Delaney had already converted before she married.
You’re ahead of my on the Delany deeds – I’m determined to prove the link to Denis Shine Lawlor before I move on.
I agree Mary Delany probably wouldn’t refer to nephews and nieces as “kinsmen”. I’d thought maybe Martin would have been brother to Mary’s father Dr. James. But I see Mary and Martin were more likely of the same generation, so perhaps cousins. Urgh, who knows?
I’m now pretty much satisfied that the Hugh Lawlor who married Anastatia Gallwey is the Dr Hugh Lawlor of Killarney:
Hugh LAWLOR (d. betw. 1820-4) m. Anastatia GALLWEY
- Honora LAWLOR m. (1795) John SHEA
- John SHEA LAWLOR
- Anastatia SHEA
- Catherine Frances LAWLOR (b. 1787)
- Juliana LAWLOR m. (1807) James MAGILL
- Ellen LAWLOR m. (1811) Daniel DUGGAN
- Anastatia DUGGAN (b. 1812)
Have I missed anybody?
Deeds relating to Hugh’s estate (as you’ve mentioned) also mention a Hugh Lawlor of Cork who could be the Hugh mentioned in the will of Frances Gallwey in 1802/4.
There’s also a Mary Margaret Lawlor who could be a daughter, or is she the same person as Mary Anne Lawlor who was brother to this Lieut. M. Lawlor. I’ve looked the name up and I think this must be Lieutenant Michael Lawlor of the Tenth Regiment Native Infantry:
https://archive.org/stream/in.ernet.dli.2015.68786/2015.68786.The-East-india-Register-And-Directory--Ed-2nd1819_djvu.txt
-
Found this on Findmypast:
I Michael Lawlor of Killarney in the County of Kerry Gent son of Hugh Lawlor late of Killarney aforesaid deceased presented for the appointment of cadet by the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland do make oath and swear that I have caused search to be made for a parish register whereby to ascertain my age but am unable to produce the same there being none to be found, and further I make oath and swear that from the information of my parents and other relations which information sincerely believe to be true that I was born in the parish of Kil…….? In the County of Kerry on the eight day of October in the year one thousand seven hundred and eight six and that I am not at this time under the age of fifteen or above twenty two years. Witness by hand this 12th of February 1808 in the year of our lord one thousand eight hundred and eight. Sworn before me this 12th of February 1808 ??? ? Mahony.
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=BL/BIND/L-MIL-9-117-PART2/00005&parentid=BL/BIND/L-MIL-9/15064
-
Somebody thinks they are related to that Michael see https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Lawlor-122
Either way it suggests that he is the son of Hugh Lawlor who married Elizabeth Mahony in 1783, not Hugh Lawlor the doctor.
-
As to your previous message, the Browne's started off as Catholics. They backed James II and were rewarded with a Baronetcy, one of eight that were never recognised by the Westminster Parliament. In the early 1700's Thomas Asgill seized some of their lands using a Protestant Discoverers Bill, they got it back when he went bankrupt in around 1720.
The 1755 deed is the earliest one listed in the Land Indices for Glengarriff that names Delany. The previous deed for that property names Richard White and someone else. I haven't looked at that deed, Derby Delany may be in the detail. The White family went on to become the Earls of Bantry.
Anastasia Gallwey being the link to the Gallwey family is neater than the solution in the Gallwey genealogy. I haven't found any other children for Hugh the doctor, I don't think they had any other children that survived though with Honora marrying in 1795 and Ellen in 1811 there is quite an age range.
As for Hugh of Cork, I don't think he is the kinsman mentioned in the will of Frances Gallwey in 1802/4. I think Hugh the doctor is via Anastasia his wife.
At some stage it might be worth paying the £3.50 to look at the will of James Lawlor of Dublin who died in 1804... Probably turn out to be irrelevant!
-
I've been working away from home this week, so haven't had much time to properly digest the above. However, I did follow your advice and purchased the copy of James Lawlor's will - it is indeed our man. (I'll send you a copy if you're interested.)
Unfortunately I find the writing in this one very difficult to read - it's one of those where every letter looks like a u, e.g. umummlyiummunnnumubuuummm ... you get the picture! Anyway, I think I got the important names (excluding place names which could be well off the mark):
I James Lawlor of St Stephen’s Green, Dublin, Esqr do make this will. I bequeath the remainder of a debt due to me by bond from the heirs of Darby Magil late of Killarney, Esqr., deceased, to his daughter Sarah Magill. I bequeath my farms of Kilbruderrymore Logh [??] and Lisluniout [??] Kilbruderrybog [?] otherwise Lissivane [?] and Lisnisatoe which lands are commonly called the two Killbrunderrys [?] also Droundaragot [??] and Mualylass [??] all in CO Kerry, and all my estate and interest in said lands, to my sister Mary Delany.
I bequeath to my cousin german John Ffrancis Mahony now a Captain in the Irish Brigade £100 with lawful interest. To his mother the widow of my late uncle Darby Mahony deceased £500 provided she who as I am informed is now in France shall be in Ireland at the time of my death or shall at any time afterwards come to Ireland and not otherwise.
Freehold land of Killobills [??] and Ardrounell [??] Co Kerry, to sister Mary Delaney during the term of her life, and afterwards to my step son Nathaniel Crumpe.
Lands of east and west Killvalane [?], the is;and of Pouguss [?] Ballyrarberry, Tyrae, and East Councugo [??] in the Barony of Iveragh, Co Kerry, wherein I am now seized of an estate of Inb??taure [?] in ffee simple to my sister Mary Delany during her life, and afterwards to my wife Dorothea during her life, and after that to my step son the said Nathaniel Crumpe.
I devise the lands of Castlelough, Parbagalane [?] Gortarounig [?] Carrigafrolane [?] Ardagh, Parbuore [?] and Ballyrusherre, all in Barny of Magunihy, Co Kerry, wherein I am now seized of an estate inb???toure [?] in ffee simple and which produce to me at present the yearly rent of £160 3s, but are after the death of my sister to produce the yearly rent of £206 3s, also the lands of Solir [?] and Ardbourough [?] Iushi??s [?] Craggs and Couterris [?] in the Barony of Dunkerron, Co Kerry, wherein I am now seized inb???toure [?] in ffee simple, to Peter Trant of Killarney Co Kerry, Esq, for and during the joint lives of him and his wife Mary Anne Trant otherwise Delany my niece, after their deaths to my wife Dorothea, and after her to step son Nathaniel Crumpe.
Remaining real and personal estate to my wife Dorothea. She also to be the sole executor. Dated 5th Jan 1796. Witnesses Rvd ? Simpson, Shady Collins, Wm Dore.
I James Lawlor of Saint Stephen’s Green, Dublin, do make this codicil. Whereas by my last will and testament I did bequeath to my cousin german John Ffrancis Mahony then a captain in the Irish Brigade, but lately a captain in the A????s G??man Regiment [??] the sum of £100, and £500 conditionally to his mother, and whereas their situation has been much improved since I made my said will, and the motives I had then for bequeathing said legacies have no longer any influence on my mind, I therefore revoke both said legacies. The sum to revert to residual legatees. In addition to that already bequeathed to sister Mary Delaney, a further legacy of £1000 with interest.
Dated 18th Jan 1803. Witnesses Richard Williams N.P, Pat. Hayes, Wm Little.
Probate granted to Dorothea Lawlor the widow and relict, 13th October 1804.
-
I'm travelling at the moment too. So I haven't got access to my files.
Sarah Magill may be https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Magill-87
As for John Francis Mahony I don't have any records of him but his father Darby may be the man mentioned in the earlier lease, and also
•John Mahony of Dunloe leased lots of land west of Lough Leane, he died in 1780. He was the man who wrote in 1750 "There are a great many Candidates putting up for Grenagh. Nobody knows here yet who'll have it.". Also that year he wrote "Sister Lawlor got a young son last Wednesday. He is not much bigger than a Rabbit. I hear she has been very weak since, but I hope will soon get y° better of it."
•Darby Mahony may be a brother of John. Dennis & Darby Mahony of Dunlough (Dunloe) were captured by the British in 1745 when they were going to help Bonnie Prince Charlie.
.
The Dennis mentioned above lived and died in France and Darby may have done the samethe widow of my late uncle Darby Mahony deceased £500 provided she who as I am informed is now in France
-
Just a note on Dorothea, wife of James Lawlor…
1772 – Dorothea Crumpe of Killarney – witness to a deed involving James Lawlor and Mary Delany.
1777 – Marriage licence, James Lawlor and Dorothea Crump
1823 – Gentleman’s magazine (1823): Feb 12. In Lower Berkeley-street, aged 84, Dorothea, relict of the late James Lawlor, esq. of Dublin.
Going by Burke’s it seems Dorothea was previously married to Francis Crumpe, and she was the daughter of Nathaniel Bland and Lucy Heaton.
“Collections for a history of the ancient family of Bland” has much more detail:
DOROTHEA, married, first, to FRANCIS CRUMPE, Esq., of Inch Island, in the County of Kerry, by whom she had an only son, NATHANIEL, --- and, secondly, JAMES LAWLOR, Esq., of Castle-Lough, in the County of Kerry, by whom she had no issue, and whom she survived.
On the 1st of October, 1811, NATHANIEL CRUMPE, Esq., --- who, to the regret of his friends, left his paternal acres, and settled at Randall’s Park, in the parish of Leatherhead, in Surrey, --- obtained His Majesty’s Licence, that he and his issue might assume and take the surname of Bland, instead of that of Crumpe, and also bear the arms of Bland, in compliance with the earnest wish and desire of his Mother, out of respect and regard to the memory of her late deceased father, NATHANIEL BLAND, LL.D., --- and arms for Bland were, in consequence, assigned to him and his issue, on the 16th of November, 1812.
-
I found this earlier today in a book called “A History of the O’Mahony Septs”:
In the French Service, the exhaustive De La Ponce MSS, mention the following: ---
1. Derby, born in Ireland 1718 (son of Daniel of Dunloe), Colonel in 1778.
…
7. John Francis, son of Col. Derby, and grandson of Daniel of Dunlor, Chef De Battalion 1807. Being a strong Royalist, he is unfavourable referred to by his republican countryman Miles Byrne in his Memoirs. Colonel in 1812 in the Irish Regiment. Colonel in Regt. Of the Line (41st) in 1819. Count in 1815. Brigadier (Mestre de Camp) in 1823. He was alive in the time of Louis Philippe, and was succeeded by his son, Count Ernest. A Count O’Mahony who resides in Rue Dauphinée, Orleans, is now chief representative of his name on the Continent.
-
Copy of confirmation of arms to the descendants of John Hilliard Lawlor (by Catherine, daughter of Lt. Col. John Elliot Cairnes), son of Dr. Jeremiah Lawlor of Tralee and to the third son of John Hilliard Lawlor being Rev. Hugh Jackson Lawlor, Dean of St. Patrick's, April 29, 1925.
Dublin: National Library of Ireland, Genealogical Office: Ms.111c, fol.62
-
John, I see in your Wikitree you already have the extract about Derby and John Francis Mahony. Is the name Dermod interchangeable with Derby?
You also mentioned Dennis who died in France – where did you get that from?
So it looks like the children of Daniel Mahony of Dunloe Castle included:
John MAHONY, Dunloe Castle, married Honora HALY. Mentioned his “sister Lawlor” in a letter to John O’CONNELL. John was also grandfather of Margaret MAHONY who married John SHEA LAWLOR.
James MAHONY, The Point, married Jane HENNESSEY.
Dermod/Derby MAHONY born in 1718. Colonel in 1778. Uncle to James LAWLOR of Dublin. Had a son John Francis MAHONY who became a Count in France.
______ MAHONY married Donal O’DONOGHUE, and had a daughter Mary who married Daniel O’CONNELL, grandfather of his namesake, “Liberator”.
______ MAHONY married Dr. James LAWLOR of Killarney.
This Lawlor lot were well connected!
-
Hallmark, I’m not sure where those Lawlors fit in, but I suspect they could be fairly distant cousins of the Killarney Lawlors.
The name Jeremiah Lawlor seems to go a fair way back in Tralee, e.g.
Dublin Morning Register, 26 Dec 1826
On Saturday last, in Tralee, Mr. Jeremiah Lawlor, son of the late Mr. Michael Lawlor, of that town.
-
Mary Delaney was nee Lawlor....
.
.
-
snippet
,
,
,
-
Yup, Mary Delany was the daughter of Dr. James Lawlor of Killarney.
Where are you getting those snippets from? They look like Burke’s extracts?
-
.
.
.
-
...
.
.
-
.
.
.
-
.
.
.
-
Hallmark, I’m not sure where those Lawlors fit in, but I suspect they could be fairly distant cousins of the Killarney Lawlors.
The name Jeremiah Lawlor seems to go a fair way back in Tralee, e.g.
Dublin Morning Register, 26 Dec 1826
On Saturday last, in Tralee, Mr. Jeremiah Lawlor, son of the late Mr. Michael Lawlor, of that town.
/
.
.
.
-
Derby is usually Jeremiah, but I have seen it used it for Dermod.
The Dennis/Dermod/Darby problem starts with Dennis and Derby in 1745. The index entry for the National Archive entry at Kew says the two Lieutenants captured off Montrose were from Dunlough. (first snippet)
One of these could be the father of Captain John Francis. However the French genealogists give Jean-Francois' mother as Marie Jacqueline Claudine Michelle Julie de Fresnoye. Whereas we are looking for a Derby Mahony married to a Lawlor as per James Lawlor's will.
The French genealogy has Derby Mahony as a Captain by 1745 but when he was captured in December that years he was recorded as a Lieutenant. His son Jean-Francois was royalist so he left France after the revolution and spent the 1790's hopping between England and Ireland living off of his parents but by the late 1790s he was pretty well full time in military service. In 1794 he stayed with his cousin Daniel at Dunloe for 18 months.
This Jean-Francois died in 1842 (second snippet).
-
The Shea Lawlors are fairly straightforward. John Shea Lawlor's full will is on findmypast. His children are also well documented.
"Mr Shea-Lawlor and two sisters lived at “The Rocks,” a little distance south of “Waldeck.” I had previously been present at the marriage of the youngest sister to Mr Freeman Jackson, a young gentleman settler who soon removed to Wanganui in the North Island. The two other sisters married Mr Henry M’Culloch (afterwards for many years Resident Magistrate at Invercargill) and Mr Henry Rogers, a runholder on the coast." (Medical Practice in Otago and Southland in the Early Days)
"Mr. McCulloch had a very charming personality, courteous and dignified. His wife, who had been a Miss Shea Lawlor, was one of the most warm-hearted amusing Irish women that ever existed, ready to do a kindness to anyone, and of course often imposed upon. There were endless stories in Invercargill of her doings and sayings, and everyone loved her." (A Surveyor in New Zealand, 1857-1896)
-
/
/
/
/
-
.
.
.#
-
Going by John Mahony’s reference to his “sister Lawlor” I was assuming Derby Mahony was James Lawlor’s uncle by virtue of being his mother’s brother. This means he could well have been married to a de Fresnoye?
Where are you getting the French genealogy by the way? It hadn’t occurred to me to Frenchify his name in my searches!
-
.
.
.
-
Hallmark, where did you get the two family tree snippets you posted on the previous page? Are they from online or your own collection?
-
.
.
-
Hallmark, where did you get the two family tree snippets you posted on the previous page? Are they from online or your own collection?
John Hilliard's line goes to the McClures of Antrim where I have a connection!!
Just had that as part of documentation.
-
You're right that Derby Mahony could be James Lawlor’s uncle by virtue of being his mother’s brother. Perhaps the fabled Julia, the only one of Daniel's children worthy of wearing his breeches.
The snippets are the trees that Betham put together from the abstracts he created, so there's nothing additional there. Some of them are on the NLI web-site.
There are lot's of other off-line sources. PRONI has over one tonne of the Kenmare Manuscripts, it also has a box of Mahony letters from 1795-1805 that probably mentions all sorts of people and places.
-
.
.
-
.
.
.
-
87 "O'Lalour"s were expelled from Queen's County (Laois) in 1607. They were one of "The Seven Septs of Leix" - http://patrick.lallour.pagesperso-orange.fr/Olalour/ol87.htm
They ended up on Crosbie land in Tarbert - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarbert,_County_Kerry.
-
They ended up on Crosbie land in Tarbert whose wife was one of them!
-
^ Interesting. I shall have to go and read up on this 1607 treaty.
I did see a reference to Daniel Mahony’s velvet breeches, but not the name of the daughter – where did you get Julia?
The reason I was wondering about the family tree snippets is because they looked like Burke’s genealogical extracts at PRONI which are in about 20 volumes – I was wondering if someone had digitised them. They’re a similar idea to Betham’s – just bits of family trees drawn up from wills, though I did find one headstone transcription which was that of my 9x great grandfather.
I’ve made a note to look up some of the documents in the Kenmare papers next time I’m at PRONI.
John, you mentioned on a previous post that the Brownes started off as Catholics and were allied to James II. My Brownes did use the name Valentine, and it would be nice to think they were from the Kenmare family, but I’ve not got any evidence for it yet.
The most plausible suggestion I have seen for my Brownes is that they descend from a Rev. Matthew Browne (c1735-1788) of St. James and St. Catherine in Dublin. He was the son of a William Browne in County Monaghan.
The Rev. Matthew Browne may have named his sons Chaworth and Brabazon in honour of his patrons the Earls of Meath.
Anyway, that’s probably another story for another thread.
-
Regarding Julia and the breeches, I was conflating Daniel's probable half sister with his probable daughter. I shouldn't do too much without looking at my notes.
-
The Dennis/Dermod/Darby problem starts with Dennis and Derby in 1745. The index entry for the National Archive entry at Kew says the two Lieutenants captured off Montrose were from Dunlough. (first snippet)
This doesn't seem to be in your screenshots and I can't find what you're referring to. Do you have a link?
If one of Daniel Mahony's daughters was the grandmother of John O'Connell (c1725-1745) and his younger siblings, she'd need to have been born before 1695 at the latest. This does not fit with the apparent date of Daniel's first marriage (1705). Did he have an earlier marriage...?
-
Regarding Julia and the breeches, I was conflating Daniel's probable half sister with his probable daughter. I shouldn't do too much without looking at my notes.
.
.
.
.
-
Try the link at http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C15669912 where they have "Dennis Mahowny, Dunlogh, Kerry; Darby Mahony, Dunlogh, Kerry".
Also of vague interest there are records for what looks like Michael Lawlor the son of the "wrong" Hugh:
- http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/371adc1e-1ca2-41f3-88d0-21de01c4f2e7
- http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/ab402512-2163-4b61-8519-116f9b468b33
One that's definitely not off-topic is regarding Alexander Lawlor's qualification as a doctor - http://munksroll.rcplondon.ac.uk/Biography/Details/6725.
-
Pedigree is at Lambeth
.
.
.
.
-
^ Interesting. I shall have to go and read up on this 1607 treaty.
I did see a reference to Daniel Mahony’s velvet breeches, but not the name of the daughter – where did you get Julia?
John, you mentioned on a previous post that the Brownes started off as Catholics and were allied to James II. My Brownes did use the name Valentine, and it would be nice to think they were from the Kenmare family, but I’ve not got any evidence for it yet.
The most plausible suggestion I have seen for my Brownes is that they descend from a Rev. Matthew Browne (c1735-1788) of St. James and St. Catherine in Dublin. He was the son of a William Browne in County Monaghan.
The Rev. Matthew Browne may have named his sons Chaworth and Brabazon in honour of his patrons the Earls of Meath.
Anyway, that’s probably another story for another thread.
100% NOT the Monaghan ones who are still around in Monaghan!!
Ballylongford Browns!!
it would be nice to think they were from the Kenmare family, and as you can see they do connect!
.
.
.
-
87 "O'Lalour"s were expelled from Queen's County (Laois) in 1607. They were one of "The Seven Septs of Leix" - http://patrick.lallour.pagesperso-orange.fr/Olalour/ol87.htm
They ended up on Crosbie land in Tarbert - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarbert,_County_Kerry.
.
.
.
I'd sooner believe the Calendar of State Papers!!!
Rather than what someone put up on wiki......
,
-
Over 10,000 acres between them
.
.
.
-
The wiki referred to Tarbert not that the Lawlors had gone to Tarbert.
The text you have snipped from the "A history of the family of Cairnes or Cairns Papers" are two successive footnotes. The State Papers reference does not support the conjecture about whether Burke had got it right or not, indeed those papers were nearly 20 years before the supposed birth of Jeremiah - see https://archive.org/stream/historyoffamilyo00lond#page/276/mode/2up/
-
They certainly didn't marry commoners....
.
.
,
-
100% NOT the Monaghan ones who are still around in Monaghan!!
Ballylongford Browns!!
it would be nice to think they were from the Kenmare family, and as you can see they do connect!
Sorry, you’ve lost me a bit. Where is that snippet from? Where does Ballylongford come into things?
-
Veering back onto the topic, the 1734 deed at https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSHS-G9ZF-V?i=141&cat=185720 is the prequel to the 1766 Deed you posted ie it relates to the same land. This one is from Justin McCartie of Begnis (son of Donogh, husband of Catherine) and his oldest son Randolph to the Crosbies.
William Crosbie left the lands to Arthur Crosbie in his will of 1742. Justin died in 1749.
James Lawlor of Killarney, Doctor of Physick first appears as a witness in 1754 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSH3-3FN9?i=581&cat=185720
The 1769 Deed at https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJW-7SZ6?i=257&cat=185720 looks like a bit of a manoeuvre by James the Lawyer.
-
Perhaps we're related
"August 17, 1818—John Falvey and Mrs. Isabella Donelly.
John Connell, security.
Note: The above couple were married the same day by the Rev. James Lucas,
pastor Of the Norfolk Catholic Congregation. According to his report, John
Falvey was the son Of John Falvey and Catherine Lawlor, and Isabella Donelly's
maiden name was Todd. Aug. Falvey and Gurlel are listed as witnesses. "
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=cDAacwmaVZIC&pg=PA78&lpg=PA78&dq=falvey+lawlor&source=bl&ots=en1G8Y57Gs&sig=F9UoHl3PsN46oQdJcA9PK4aEbfc&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiI_KuH383bAhXJJ8AKHR9QCmsQ6AEIOjAD#v=onepage&q=falvey%20lawlor&f=false
-
James and Hugh Lawlor on the same Deed at
Memorial: 234975 1st February 1783 James Lawler of the City of Dublin Esq
“Hugh Falvey of Faha” Cahircroan, refers 8th October 1778. Witnessed by James Mahony and Hugh Lawlor both of Killarney.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJW-19CH-V?i=297&cat=185720
-
100% NOT the Monaghan ones who are still around in Monaghan!!
Ballylongford Browns!!
it would be nice to think they were from the Kenmare family, and as you can see they do connect!
,
,
,
Sorry, you’ve lost me a bit. Where is that snippet from? Where does Ballylongford come into things?
-
"Crosbie Arthur of ??? Esq
Jas Lawler of Killough Co Kerry Esq MD Creditor
Elizabeth C the widow & relict Agnes C the daur
Admon granted 15 day March 1768"
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9LW-2ZB6?i=314&cat=224404
-
Arthur ??
.
.
.
-
1st part
..
.
,
m
-
Probably that Arthur though no mention of the son in the Admon.
-
"Royal College of Physicians of Ireland registers
These list all the doctors who have been admitted to RCPI as Licentiates, Members, Fellows or Honorary Fellows since 1692. The information contained in the registers usually consists of a name, with date of admission. Sometimes an address, qualifications or date of death is included."
A visit to Dublin or a £50 search fee required.
-
Probably that Arthur though no mention of the son in the Admon.
Probably.
-
The wiki referred to Tarbert not that the Lawlors had gone to Tarbert.
The text you have snipped from the "A history of the family of Cairnes or Cairns Papers" are two successive footnotes. The State Papers reference does not support the conjecture about whether Burke had got it right or not, indeed those papers were nearly 20 years before the supposed birth of Jeremiah -
Why would the State Papers of 1600's support the conjecture about whether Burke had got it right or not when Burke conjected 200 years later??
They didn't know what Burke was going to conject!
-
I only got as far as reading the first post tonight. Have just skimmed the rest - they need more study.
The 1769 Deed at https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJW-7SZ6?i=257&cat=185720 looks like a bit of a manoeuvre by James the Lawyer.
What do you mean? What does it look like he's trying to do in your opinion?
I'm a bit thrown by the bit about Newton Radford filing a bill in the court of chancery against James Lawlor, but apart from that my understanding of it is that James Lawlor Sr. put land in trust (via Radford?) who was then to pay the interest etc to James Lawlor Jr. in exchange for a fee of 11s?
-
100% NOT the Monaghan ones who are still around in Monaghan!!
Ballylongford Browns!!
it would be nice to think they were from the Kenmare family, and as you can see they do connect!
,
,
,
Sorry, you’ve lost me a bit. Where is that snippet from? Where does Ballylongford come into things?
But what does Ballylongford have to do with my Brownes? :-\
-
The wiki referred to Tarbert not that the Lawlors had gone to Tarbert.
The text you have snipped from the "A history of the family of Cairnes or Cairns Papers" are two successive footnotes. The State Papers reference does not support the conjecture about whether Burke had got it right or not, indeed those papers were nearly 20 years before the supposed birth of Jeremiah -
Why would the State Papers of 1600's support the conjecture about whether Burke had got it right or not when Burke conjected 200 years later??
They didn't know what Burke was going to conject!
The snippet you posted made it look like the Calendar of State papers was the reference to the bit about Jeremiah.
But the reference was actual for the stuff about the O'Lalors coming from Laois in about 1607. I think that's what John was trying to point out. ???
-
I've not quite got my head around the notion of Protestant Discovery Bills which is what I think the Newton Radford bill is. However given the sums involved were often nominal there does seem to be an element of collusion between the Catholic and Protestant parties.
"The process, however, was in fact also used by canny Catholics to protect themselves, by employing a ‘collusive discovery’. Working with a trusted Protestant associate or agent, a spurious bill of discovery would be obtained, which on paper would see the property in question assigned to the Protestant, but in reality it would continue to be enjoyed by the Catholic.
The smokescreen of protection afforded by this legal manoeuvre was not infrequently completed by registering a deed of trust in the Registry of Deeds." - https://www.historyireland.com/20th-century-contemporary-history/a-most-valuable-storehouse-of-history/
-
Hi all, this is a fascinating and incredibly well sourced string of comments. I have been doing a one name study on the Lalor clan of Laois, which has also looked at what happened to them after some were transplanted to Kerry in 1608. The Lalors were one of the seven septs of Laois. Under the O'Mores they spent much of the 16th century fighting the English until their defeat in 1601. A planter and adventurer of Irish ancestry named Patrick Crosbie, who had lands in Laois and Kerry took of the task of transplating the most troublesome members of the septs to Kerry. His story is told in this article by Lord Walter Fitzgerald in 1923: http://www.jstor.org/stable/25513295 .
His brother John Crosbie was Bishop of Ardfert 1600-1621, and was married to Winifred (oonah) O'Lalor of Laois. See the Lalors of Cregg pedigree in Burke's Landed Gentry.
Her sister, Honora was married to Thomas Cantillon of Ballyheigue. She and two other Lalors - Timothy (Teig) and Daniel (Donnell) were recorded in his post mortem inquistion in 1613. The details of this PMI - along with a fanciful and fascinating maternal line recorded in an old O'Connell pedigree - is recorded in an article on the Cantillons by Antoin Murphy: https://mises.org/library/richard-cantillon%E2%80%94banker-and-economist
The Lalors seem to have settled around Ballyheigue and Ardfert rather than at Tarbert. They are mentioned as fighting on both sides in the 1640s wars (a Captain Lalor burnt down the Ardfert Cathedral). But then tthere is no record till the mid 1700s.
The Ardfert Wills index lists a Daniel Lalor in 1746. He is, I suspect, the Daniel Lawlor of Traly who conformed to the CHurch of Ireland 17/8/1746, probably to secure the inheritance of his sons. His sons may have included James Lawlor MD of Castlelough, and Jeremiah Lawlor of Ballyheigue, ancestor of the Lawlors of Tralee. The history of this latter branch is recorded by 19th century antiquarian Henry Cairnes Lawlor: https://archive.org/stream/historyoffamilyo00lond#page/280/mode/2up
John
-
Bit of a side-line here, but there is a very well sourced genealogy of Dorothea Bland/ Crumpe's family at http://anthonyjcamp.com/page13.htm
-
Hi, John 2, as I may have to call you. Thanks for your post. I spent half the weekend writing up my notes on the Lawlors. They’re a fascinating lot and have introduced me to a perspective of Irish history I previously knew very little about.
I’ve more or less got it to the point where I can park it for a while and get back to catch up on recent posts here. I’m sure there are a few deeds I haven’t read yet.
John F – gosh, I love the connection to the mistress of William IV. I just had a browse through Wikipedia looking at some of their noble descendants…
-
I’ve been trying to find more on the Delanys. Before going too far I realised I need to work forwards a bit before working back.
In my first post I mentioned Matthew Browne of Dublin who married Margarette Delaney, daughter of Matthew Delaney of Cork (deceased). Previously I didn’t know when or where they died. I’d assumed sometime before the 1860s/70s but it turns out they both died in 1897 in England…
Dublin Daily Express, 14 Apr 1897
BROWNE - April 11, in London, Mathew Browne, solicitor, late of Dublin and Cahirciveen.
Dublin Daily Express, 14 Sep 1897
BROWNE - September 7th, at her residence, Staplehurst, Kent, Margarette, beloved wife of the late Matthew Browne, Solicitor, of Dublin, Killarney, and Caherciveen.
There is a burial record on FindMyPast for Matthew Brown, buried at East Peckham Holy Trinity on the 17th April. I’d assume Margarette was probably buried there too, but I don’t have a headstone transcription (if indeed there is one).
Going by the 1891 census, Matthew Browne was born in c1812 (which fits with the 1812 baptism I have for him) while Margarette Delany was born c1822. I’ve not yet found any baptism record for her (I’m not even sure whether she’d have been Catholic or Protestant at birth).
-
I looked at the Tithes and there were no Matthew Delany's in Cork but there was a Mathew Delaney in Kerry at Kiledellig, wherever that is.
-
Matthew Delany was presumably the son of a younger son of Darby Delany of Glengariff, so he may have been a tradesman or something in or around the city of Cork.
I went back to follow the land leased to Darby Delany by Richard White in 1755. I’m not sure why I didn’t find this one when I was going through the names index a couple of weeks ago:
1777 - Book 311 / Page 590 / Number 213077
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSNH-89LR-D?i=317&cat=185720
Memorial of deed dated 10th Apr 1777 between Mary Delany widow and acting executrix of Patrick Delany late of Glengariff in the County of Cork Gent, of the one part, and Derby Delany eldest son of the said Patrick Delany, of the other part. Mary Delany granted to Derby the lands of Corrigrave, Kaunrusky, Skehill, Derenafullow, Dromdower, Coubrany and Courafrevane being by estimation eleven gneeves and a quarter of the three plowlands of Glengariff together with the woods, coppices etc. Also the tract of land from the bounds of Glengarriff westward to East Falia [Faha] together with the East Falia, West Falia and West Crohy being by estimation thirty cows and half of the three plough lands of Carrufadda situate in the Barony of Beer and Bantry. Deed witnessed by James Lawlor and John Hewson [?] both of Dublin. Memorial witnessed by John Hewson and Barns Donnelly of Dublin, manservant.
That doesn’t really tell us anything new – it just confirms Patrick Delany’s will. I’ve been working through the Lands Index looking for Skehill and this is the next mention I can find:
1824 - Whites sell land to Reeves - Book 793 / Page 478 / Number 536213
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJ7-7S6C-1?i=297&cat=185720
Memorial of deed dated 7th Jul 1824 between Rt Hon Richard Earl of Bantry, and his heir apparent Hon Richard White commonly called Viscount Beerhaven, of the first part, and Samluel Spaight Reeves of Dublin of the second part, and Edward Reeves of Dublin of the third part. The Whites, for the purposes of barring docking and destroying all the estate’s tail, did sell to the said Samuel Spaight Reeves the lands of … [about 30 townlands including West Faha, East Faha, East Crohe, Skeahill / Skehill etc].
1825 - Book 806 - Pages 154-155 (which are actually about 10 pages)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJ7-Q39T-J?i=117&cat=185720
Deed involving the Whites. Lists many townlands (including Faha, Skehill etc), the names of tenants, dates and lengths of rentals. But no Delany mentioned!
-
Possible brother for Patrick Delany (i.e. my ancestor?) is the Daniel Delany who was witness to Patrick’s will, according to the Thrift extract on FindMyPast (see page 2 of this thread).
A Derby Delany was baptised in 1762 at St Finbarr’s in Cork City – parents Daniel Delany and Ann Murphy.
This could be the Daniel Delany “of the City of Cork clothier” mentioned in another Thrift extract:
Joseph Phayne of Killmallock in the co of Limerick tyler, Daniel Delany of the city of Cork clothier and Richard Gardner of the same clother bound unto Jemmett Lord Bishop of Cork and Ross in the sum of £1000. Dated 27th Jan 1763. Above [bounden?] Joseph Phayne may solemnise matrimony with Mary Gilbert of the parish of St Peter Cork spinster.
-
Ireland Diocesan And Prerogative Wills & Administrations Indexes 1595-1858
1747 – Daniel Delany, clothier (Cork Diocese). Not clear what this is referring to. Probate is stroked out and it says bond, so it could be his marriage…?
Ireland Diocesan And Prerogative Wills & Administrations Indexes 1595-1858
1757 – Daniel Delany, Cork. This looks more like a probate.
Ireland Diocesan And Prerogative Wills & Administrations Indexes 1595-1858
1768 – Way [May?] Delany – name of deceased Daniel Delany. [There is a Daniel Delany of Kilkenny who died about this time – so that could be him.]
-
I started hunting through the RC church records (the index on FindMyPast) for Delanys in Cork and there are quite a few, so I ended up with a fairly random selection:
22nd Jan 1754 - Macroom, Co Cork
Daniell Delaney married Mary Mansfield
9th ___ 1754 – St. Finbarr’s, Cork City
Daniel Delany and Ann Delany present James Michachy and Cate Buckley. Gallows Green ... by Dr. Shyne.
11th Jan 1761 – St. Finbarr’s, Cork City
Daniel and Mary, twins, children to Dennis Delany and Catherine [Mahony??]; sponsors for Daniel were Patrick Murphy and Honor Collins, and for Mary Owen Brallanghan [?] and Julian Cuningham.
9th Jan 1773 – St. Finbarr’s, Cork City
In Old Lane; Ellen daughter to Derby Delany and Mary Ful…? Van? Gps.. Jon [?] Sullivan and Ellenor Triny [?]
20th May 1777 – St. Finbarr’s, Cork City
Con [?] Delany + Margaret Cohobaun [??] – Doby [Darby?] Delany Margaret Coholan [witnesses??}
6th Feb 1787 – Kilmurry, Cork and Ross
Married Derby Delany and Margt Murphy …. Cros. Murphy, John Cullinane and Elizabeth Kelly [?].
-
Slightly different approach looking for children with father Matthew Delany:
7th Apr 1813 – Baptism – Passage West, Cork and Ross
Ann of Mathew Delany and Anne Muthall. Sponsors John Barry and Mary Murphy.
[There was a marriage licence bond in 1812 for Matthew Delany and Anne Mulhall]
11th Aug 1818 – Baptism – Dunmanway, Cork and Ross
Ellen of Mathew Delany and Catherine Mahony. John Bayon [?] Ellen Mahony. Kilbarry.
7th Dec 1823 – Baptism – Cobh, Cloyne
Mary Francis Delany of Mathew and Bridget. Tho [?] Collins, Mrs Thomas.
2nd May 1827 – Baptism – Cobh, Cloyne
Mat Delany of Mat and Bridget. Charles and Anne Delany.
These last two could correspond to the Matthew Delany of “Cove” who died in 1828 aged 40 leaving “five helpless orphans”.
-
Not sure whether I posted this one:
Memorial: 234976 1st February 1783 Henry Arthur Herbert of Muckross in the County of Kerry Esq
“of the one part & Hugh Falvey of Fahaugh in the sd County Esq wherby the sd Henry Arthur Herbert did demise unto the sd Hugh Falvey all that & those the Town Lands of Killcluhirrane and Coolaworeen ……. lately held by ……. to the sd Hugh Falvey his heirs … & adms for the lives of John Falvey Esq and Maria Falvey both Children of sd Hugh Falvey & of Jas Delaney son of Patk Delaney late of Glangarriff in the Coy of Cork Gent” refers 17th March 1780.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJW-19CN-Z?i=298&cat=185720
-
I don’t think I’ve seen that one before. It’s the only other reference I can think of to James Delany.
The lands left to him by Patrick Delany looks like “Knockenmuskullagh”. I haven’t quite figured out where that is yet.
Have you seen any updates to this lease which perhaps record when/whether the lives ‘expired’?
-
I haven't seen any lives expiring on this but then Maria did live until 1842.
-
Another one I didn't post before.
An 1837 deed between John Shea Lawlor and Anastatia Shea at https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJW-SP44?cat=185720 Mentions the "Doctor's House" and is witnessed by Alexander Lawlor of Castlereagh. The lawyer David Mahony is the brother of Pierse Mahony, it's said that Pierse did all the talking and David did all the work.
-
"(MRS.) MARY DELANY to KENMARE.
Glingaruffe, 7 Feb., 1761.
Regretting, with thanks notwithstanding, his inability to let
Knockreer to her and her husband. Refers to his frequent
proofs of kindness to her.
Addressed to Killarney."
Kenmare Manuscripts
-
It was at this period in this long-drawn-out litigation that the autograph letter from the Rev. Thomas Orpen to Earl John, which I owe to the courtesy of the present Lord Lansdowne, was written. It is dated 23 February 1756, and begins as follows:
" My Lord, sometime in September last I was served with a Subpoena at your Lordship's suit, and having observed that Dr. Lawlor was mentioned in the same Subpoena I wrote to him to know if he could inform me what it meant, who returned me for Answer that he had a copie of your
Lordship's Bill, that Mr. Arthur Crosbie was then at his house, who earnestly requested to see me, that if I would comply I should see the Bill, and that by my giving a Joint Answer with them I should save a good deal of expense. I wrote to tell the Doctor that I was determined to answer alone, let the consequences as to costs be as it would. I excused myself for not going to Mr. Crosbie, but pressed at the same time for a copy of the Bill. One or two letters to the same purpose passed between me and the Doctor. . . ."
This was regarding the legality of leases held by the Mahonys in Kerry.
-
Interesting to see that Mary Delany (née Lawlor) was already involved in business affairs 5+ years before her husband died. That would be pretty unusual for the times? I like to imagine that as the granddaughter of the “great and terrible papist” Daniel Mahony she was a force to be reckoned with.
I see the Orpen book refers to Daniel Mahony as being the second son of John Mahony – with the eldest being Denis/Donogh Mahony. I wonder if the Miss Mahony who married Donal O’Donoghue could have been Denis’s daughter rather than Daniel’s…?
Little puzzle on the Lawlor side…
According to the Poets of Ireland (O’Donoghue, 1912), Denis Shine Lawlor was the author of “The Harp of Innisfail” which was published in 1828/9 under the initials “D.S.L.”
However, the introduction to that book refers to the author being in his 30th year and 20 years settled in Killarney. Considering Denis Shine Lawlor was born in 1808, how could this be him?
-
I think the main objection to Honora wife of Donal O’Donoghue being daughter of Daniel was that she would have been about the same age as her daughter. Similar logic would apply a daughter of Denis/Donogh Mahony.
There is another claimant as per “Materials for a history of the family of John Sullivan of Berwick, New England, and of the O'Sullivans of Ardea, Ireland by Meredith, Gertrude E.; Burke, Bernard, Sir,; Amory, Thomas C.”
“My Mother's name was Joane McCarthy, daughter to Dermod McCarthy of Killowen. She had three brothers and one sister her mother's name I forget but she was Daughter to MacCarthy Reak of Carbery. Her oldest brother was Coll Florence alas Mac ffinnin. He and his two Brothers Capt. Charles and Capt Owen went in the defence of the nation against Orange. Owen was kill'd in the battle of Airim. Florence had a son who retains the title of Mac ffinnin. Charles I just remember he had a charge of powder in his face at the Siege of Cork. He left two sons, Derby and Owen. Derby married With Ellina Sullivan Of the Sullivans of Bannane; his brother Owen married to Honora Mahony, Daughter to Dinish Mahony of Droummere in the Barony of Dunkerrane or Cappenecussiss. He also Died in the prime of life much Lamented."
-
I was thinking that if we took Canon John Mahony’s version of events, John Mahony’s second marriage was in 1665, so his eldest sons Denis and Daniel would have been born c1660-1665.
Land was purchased for Denis in 1686 – he could have been full age by then and have a daughter born c1685? If so, would she be old enough to be the mother of Maur-ni-Dhuiv? Do you have any dates for Maur-ni-Dhuiv – all I have is that she must have been born before 1710…?
I wonder if the original 18th century pedigrees survive anywhere.
Where are you getting the name Honora from by the way (as in for the daughter of Daniel)?
-
The data on the Mahony family in the late 17th century is rather difficult to put together.
- Daniel Mahony was allegedly 20 at the time of the "Grand Lease" of 1696. He certainly wouldn't have been 30.
- Somewhere in my files I have something about
French Spanish Mahonys claiming descent from Dromore before 1686.
- Denis Mahony is only listed as having one wife, Alice O'Connell. Some sites say she was still having children as late as 1738! Anyhow she appears to be alive in the late 1750's as evidenced by deeds at https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSNH-D9YH-M?i=232&cat=185720 and https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSH3-SXPX?i=201&cat=185720. So having a daughter before 1686 is a stretch.
- Maur-ni-Dhuiv died in 1795, supposedly aged 90. Her eldest son John was born in 1725 and he had two older sisters. So 1710 is probably a tad late, Mrs Morgan O'Connell guesses 1708.
- As for Honora being daughter of Daniel, that's my supposition. We know:
a) Daniel's son John had a sister married to a Lawlor. He wrote in 1750 “Sister Lawlor got a young son last Wednesday. He is not much bigger than a Rabbit.”.
b) Daniel's son Darby was the late uncle of James Lawlor, as per James' will.
c) Honora Lawler was buried at Muckross Abbey in 1754.
- of course this may be a case of 2+2=5
-
Alice Ferriter is Maire Ni Dhuibh's mother according to Burke's Irish Family Records - http://griffiths.askaboutireland.ie/gv4/nbl/lh_nbl_show5.php?mysession=&choice=&id=051391&pdfpage=940
-
Somebody thinks they are related to that Michael see https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Lawlor-122
Either way it suggests that he is the son of Hugh Lawlor who married Elizabeth Mahony in 1783, not Hugh Lawlor the doctor.
They might well be related but he wasn't a sea captain.
Michael Lawlor 8 Oct 1786-30 March 1824 was my 4x great grandfather, son of Hugh and Eliza(beth).
He had a father Hugh and as far as I have ascertained at this point, also a brother Hugh who was a doctor.
Michael was an army officer who first sailed for Madras on the 'William Pitt' as part of the 10th Regiment of Native Infantry. He fathered a child with probably an Indian bibi and died of a gunshot wound in Madras in 1824, leaving a young son, Henry Charles Lawlor who, after being educated in Scotland, married a descendant of the Foulis family (also born in India and grand daughter of a bibi). He arrived in NZ in July 1841 on the 'Brilliant' with his wife Anne Caroline and infant daughter born on the ship out.
This branch of the NZ Lawlors is thoroughly documented in a book "The 3 Worlds of Anne and Henry Lawlor" written by Henry Charles' great grandaughter Louise Buckingham and published in 2006, one of a series of family genealogy publications Louise wrote.
-
Hi Tish,
As far as I can see the children of this family appear to be:
1. Michael Hugh Lawlor 1786-1824
2. Hugh 1787-
3. James 1789-
4. Mary Ann c1790-1833
5. Elizabeth 1799-
Mary Ann is the only one I've seen mentioned elsewhere. Most Hugh Lawlor mentions are of the older doctor who died around 1824, and of Hugh Lawlor of Cork who inherited from him.
For followers of the earlier part of this thread it looks like James Conway did the 18th century equivalent of money laundering in 1771 when Samuel Windis, that famous hosier from Dublin, grabbed the Lawlor estates using a Protestant Discovers bill he then sold them on to Henry Blennerhassett. The money would of course have gone to James. See deed 189310 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJW-P3G8?i=25&cat=185720
-
Elizabeth's father Eugene Mahony is mentioned in her marriage settlement.
Memorial: 336727 8th May 1798 Hugh Lawlor of Cloundonegan
“Eugene Mahony of Castle farm of Mullinge in sd Co Gent of 2d part and Elizth Mahony in sd Co spinster of the third part”. Hugh and Elizabeth are shortly to be married (in 1783)- https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSH3-Q9N3-Z?i=293&cat=185720
The Diocesan Wills for Ardfert and Aghadoe has the following two entries that are probably her parents:
- 7th January 1814 Eugene O’Mahony - http://census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/dw/IRE_DIOC_007246594_00141.pdf
- 2nd December 1819 Margaret O’Mahony, relict of Eugene - http://census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/dw/IRE_DIOC_007246594_00141.pdf
Eugene is mentioned at:
- Kerry, Oaths of Allegiance 1775 - 7th March 1776 Eug. Mahony, Castlefarm. Gent.
- The Belfast Newsletter, Co. Kerry freeholders – 19th July 1799 - O'Mahony, E. of Castle-Farm
- A Directory to the Market Towns: Villages, Gentlemen's Seats... By Ambrose Leet (1814) - Castle-farm Killarney Eugene O’Mahony Esq
See also http://homepage.tinet.ie/~sliabhluachraces/firies.htm and http://landedestates.nuigalway.ie/LandedEstates/jsp/property-show.jsp?id=5019
And this might be Eugene mentioned in another marriage settlement:
Memorial: 303699 20th January 1794 Daniel Mahony of Droumdisert is marrying Honora Griffin - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJW-P5PL?i=86&cat=185720 Daniel is the eldest son of John, Honora the second daughter of Michael. Witnesses were Eugene Mahony of Molahiff and John Falvey of Killarney. Maybe he is related to the Mahony's at Droumdisert who descended from Teige Mahony who leased Droumdisert from the Browne's on 1st November 1669.
Eugene/ Owen isn't a common Mahony name though it does crop up in the Castleisland branch: http://maison.omahony.free.fr/Barthelemy_fichiers/genealogie_tableau.jpg
-
Hi Tish,
As far as I can see the children of this family appear to be:
1. Michael Hugh Lawlor 1786-1824
2. Hugh 1787-
3. James 1789-
4. Mary Ann c1790-1833
5. Elizabeth 1799-
Mary Ann is the only one I've seen mentioned elsewhere. Most Hugh Lawlor mentions are of the older doctor who died around 1824, and of Hugh Lawlor of Cork who inherited from him.
...
I have only seen an entry for an extracted IGI for Hugh 1787
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FRWV-PJY
-
Adminstration grant for Mary Anne Lawlor says she died in Cahirciveen, Killarney on 1st September 1833 - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BY-K929-S?i=315&cat=232755 Admons are Johanna Sullivan and Honora Baker, her aunts.
-
As a follow up to the Michael Lawlor discussion.
Specifically mentioned is "Alexander Lawlor, Esq Killarney Ireland my first cousin " when nominated as Executor in Ireland in Will of Michael Hugh Lawlor HEICS Probated 12 June 1824, which also mentioned his sister "Miss Mary Ann Lawlor of Killarney, spinster".
Mary Ann is easy as she is already fully documented by her death as the daughter of Hugh and the brother of Michael, and he is documented as the son of Hugh Lawlor and Eliza Mahoney when he stated he was the son of Hugh Lawlor, deceased and confirmed by Eliza as signatory to his age and birth date in his attestation document of 18 February 1808 when Michael joined the service.
Likewise I am satisfied with the marriage of Julia Lawlor in 1808 witnessed by her brother Hugh.
Likewise, James Lawlor has a baptism record to Hugh Lawlor and Eliz. Mahony May 1789.
Hugh Jr has a baptism record to Hugh Lawlor and Eliz. Mahoney in 1787, Killarney.
Alexander's father must be a brother of Hugh Lawlor. But who is his father? I have yet to find a baptism for him. I suspect he is possibly the Alexander Lawlor Esq died 29 June 1825, Castlelough, Killarney.
-
The Alexander from Castlelough died in Cork. He looks to be the nephew of Alexander McCarthy, though I'd need a subscription to see the original press cutting in the Dublin Morning Register of 25 June 1825. Alexander McCarthy's sister Mary Anne was married to Martin Lawlor, they had a son Alexander born c1780 (two deeds have him as aged 10 in 1790, and 12 in 1792). Mary Anne's father was also called Alexander.
-
I don't have a sub for viewing newspaper items either.
Under Martin is where I had him placed with the only definite knowledge of him being a first cousin, so that makes sense as being age contempory to Michael Lawlor who was born in 1786 and probably ties Martin to Hugh as brothers, despite not having any specific evidence to the fact.
Cheers for that
-
Adminstration grant for Mary Anne Lawlor says she died in Cahirciveen, Killarney on 1st September 1833 - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BY-K929-S?i=315&cat=232755 Admons are Johanna Sullivan and Honora Baker, her aunts.
Do we know where either of these aunts fit into the picture?
-
From the Dublin Morning Register, 25th June 1825:
In Cork, at the house of his uncle (Alexander McCarthy, Esq.) Alexander Lawlor, Esq., M.D., of Castlelough, near Killarney.
-
You're a star!
-
So Hugh Lawlor, father of Michael Hugh Lawlor (1786-1824), was brother of Martin Lawlor who married Mary Ann McCarthy?
Is that the same Hugh Lawlor who was a doctor? And there's a Hugh Lawlor who married Anastasia Gallwey. I've lost track - I'm not sure if they're all one person, or three different people!
-
There are two Hughes.
One married Annastatia Gallwey and had five daughters:
1. Hanora married John Shea;
2. Margaret Mary living unmarried in 1825;
3. Juliana married James Magill;
4. Ellen married Daniel Duggan;
5. Catherine Francis
The other married Eliza Mahony and had:
1. Michael Hugh
2. Mary Ann
3. Hugh
4. James
5. Elisabeth
-
Ok, thanks, and was Hugh Lawlor married to Anastasia Gallwey a doctor? I have these notes (possibly from you) which suggest yes...
- In 1785 Gallweys granted land of Gurteenroe to Hugh Lawlor ... in 1817 Dr. Hugh Lawlor left this land in trust to Daniel Cronin and Dominick Rice.
- Daniel Duggan who is mentioned in Dr. Hugh deeds married Ellen Lawlor (daughter of a Hugh) ... they named a daughter Anastatia Duggan
-
That sounds about right.
The other Hugh may have been an apothecary.
-
I’m not sure if we’ve mentioned this couple on this thread before. I’m interested because Mary may have been a sister or cousin of Patrick Delany who married Mary Lawlor (of Castlelough). I don’t know whether Andrew is related to any of the other Mahonys that have been mentioned…?
Newspaper snippet from Ffolliott collection:
CJ Th 19 Oct 1769 - Wednesday last, Andrew Mahony Esq of Cloghrane near Tralee to Miss Mary Delany with £1500.
Marriage settlement:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSH3-MQ8Y-R?cat=185720
Memorial of articles of agreement dated 18th Oct 1769 between Andrew Mahony of Clahan, Co Kerry, Gent., on the first part, Mary Delany of Glangariffe [Glengarriff] in the Co Cork, spinster, of the second, James Mahony of Clahan Gent and Taugh Sullivan of Cuonane [?] in Co Cork of the third. Marriage shortly to be had between said Andrew Mahony and Mary Delany. Said Andrew in consideration of £550 marriage portion of said Mary, receipt whereof he acknowledges, he did agree and covenant with said James Mahony and Faugh Sullivan that in case Mary should survive him she should seize and possess £600 from the assets of said Andrew Mahony. If they should have issue then the money to go to them. Witnessed by Denis Mahony of Tralee and Roger Sullivan of Coonane, Co Cork. Memorial witnessed by said Denis Mahony and by William Wilson of Tralee.
Betham Genealogical Abstracts:
204/ Delany Jerry of Glengariff, Co Cork, Gent, to Mary Mahony orw. Delany (wife of Andrew Mahony) the lawful sister. Admon Granted 23d day June 1774.
-
Andrew was son of James Mahony of The Point, the second son of Daniel Mahony.
-
Interesting! What are the source(s) for that?
I had thought the Patrick Delany - Mary Lawlor marriage was a one-off connection to the Lawlor/Mahony crowd but apparently not. I still know very little about my Delanys of Glengarriff.
-
Got that wrong. He is alledgedly the son of James Mahony of Clahane, second son of Donogh/ Dennis Mahony of Dromore.
The link is only supported by the fact that he was of Clahane.
-
Ok, thanks. That seems to be the version of things in “The Mahonys of Kerry”:
https://tommahony.com/genealogy/mahonyhx3.htm
This afternoon I found this deed which I don’t think I’ve come across before:
Book 351 / Page 493 / Number 237485
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSMQ-V94H-F?i=579&cat=185720
Memorial of release dated 28th Jun 1783 between Peter Trant of the Inner Temple, London, Esq., 1st part; Mary Delany of Castlelough in the County of Kerry, widow, and Mary Delany spinster, daughter of the said Mary Delany by her late husband Patrick Delany of the 2nd; Rt Hom Thomas Browne Lord Kenmare and James Lawlor of the city of Dublin, Esq, 2rd; Thomas Rice of same, Esq, and James Purcell of Kanturk, Co Cork, Esq, 4th. Peter Trant owned in fee simple lands of Rynvark and Kilfarnogue otherwise Kilfarnoge in the parish of Ventry, Bo. of Corcaguiny [?], Co. Kerry, and was possessed of the half plowland of Killinishall, commonly called Bealaquoneen otherwise Myrtheville in the Bo. Kiericurrihy, Co. Cork, with its ancient and accustomed mears and bounds, by virtue of a lease dated 19th Feb 1771 by Henry Puxley [?] Esq to Thomas Trant merchant, father of the said Peter Trant, for 30 years at the rent of £110, property now come to Peter Trant. And said Henry Puxley did by 1771 lease grant unto Thomas Fuller Draper the half plowland of Killmichell for 750 years, which said property is now also vested in Peter Trant. And reciting that a marriage was intended between Peter Trant and Mary Delany, and he sold the said lands to Lord Kenmare and James Lawlor to hold in trust. Deed and memorial witnessed by James Delany of Castlelough, Co Kerry, gent, and Thomas Trant of Cork City, merchant, and John Connor of Cork City, servant to said Thomas Trant.
So evidently the marriage of Peter Trant to Mary Delany in Stranraer was not an elopement. But why did they marry there!?
-
I had seen that lease before. The land at Rynvark and Kilfarnogue was held by the Trants on a 99 year mortgage dated 27th September 1681.
I suspect the reason that Peter and Mary married in Stranraer is that one was COI and the other RC.
-
Awesome stuff, thanks.
Now throw in the probate document of Mary Anne Lawlor in 1833 and her two named aunts, Johanna Sullivan and Hanora Baker (haven't started working through which side they are aunts from, and whether they are blood aunts or married in)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BY-K929-S?mode=g&cat=232755
And I am currenty chatting with a downstream Lawlor in France who has a completely different verson of the Mahony family on his Geneanet tree with Eugene as the brother of Elizabeth (who married Hugh Lawlor), and their father is Michael born in 1723 - Cork married to Helena Holles. First child in the list oif issue is Eugene (Owen) 1746 of Molahiffe who married Margaret de Courcy.
He points out the 1783 discussion about the upcoming marriage of Elizabeth to Hugh Lawlor doesn't actually state Eugene is her father.
So how far I can validate any of this I don't know, but if he is able to provide links to the sources of his documentation that will be brilliant.
ETA
I can't fault his knowledge, he has family documents -
"We have confirmation of that fact by letters showing that Eugene was sending money to Bartholomew (his brother) during the "Emigration" (1800s). We have a copy of Bartholomew's baptism - jan 5, 1748) : his parents are named (in latin) : Michaelis Ô Mahony et Ellena Hollis" ... so Eugene's parents are the same. Their grandfather is Eugene O'Mahony and probably Eugene's godfather since he wears his name...
To get the French nationalty in 1767, to postulate for the order of Malta (1774) Bartholomew had to provide lots of proofs, certified by the Irish king of arms and other authorities. These were summarized in French documents... etc"
Bartholomew stayed in France, and this is his descendant I am chatting to.
I guess sometimes what you need isn't found in just Irish repositories.
-
That's great stuff Tish.
Eugene was always the mystery man. How did he become the freeholder of Castlefarm? If he was a Catholic that would have to be after 1782 when the Penal Laws were relaxed
-
That I don't know and if Dominique does, he hasn't said he has documentation for it. Accurate dates and documentation for Eugene seems to be scant, and he doesn't appear to know when Michael died. There are some real gaps in what is essentially reasonably adequately documentation with regard to some elements of the family BDM and Wills so I guess someone better than me at managing the research might find them but the health constraints I now have make searching and recording stuff rathermore difficult and my research has from necessity been dramatically reduced.
But I will keep reading and adding anything I have of use :-)
-
Looks like Michael might be Eugene's father, though you have to careful as the Browne's owned a Castlefarm in co Limerick too.
PRONI Reference : D4151/B/31/1
Title : Lease of lands in Castlefarm from Thomas
Dates : 20 July 1769
Description : Lease of lands in Castlefarm from Thomas Browne, 4th Viscount Kenmare, to Michael Mahony of Cloonagh, Co. Kerry.
Also the following confirms the De Courcy link, plus lots more at http://www.odonohoearchive.com/a-sketch-of-molahiffe-castle-and-the-manor-of-molahiffe/#_ftn21
"In June 1823, Court of Exchequer, Fagan a. De Courcy and others, ‘from 29th September next, the House and Demesne of Castle Farm in the County of Kerry now in the possession of the Defendant, Maurice De Courcy.’ In 1826: Fagan, a. De Courcy and others, ‘Set up and let for three years pending this cause from 29th September next the House and Demesne of Castlefarm in the County of Kerry.’ In 1829: Ellen Fagan, Plaintiff, Maurice De Courcey and others, Defendants, Court of Exchequer, 10 July 1829, ‘Set up and Let for three years from 29th September next, the House and Demesne of Castlefarm in the County of Kerry.’
In 1825, in the Court of Exchequer, Ellen Fagan, Plaintiff, Maurice De Courcey and others, Defendants, ‘Set up to be Let for three years, from 25th March next, the Lands of Molahiffe as heretofore in the possession of Maurice, John, Andrew and Daniel Brien.’ In 1828, the lands were in the tenancy of Daniel Supple Esq. In 1831, the lands of Molahiffe, in the tenancy of Daniel Supple Esq, were let in the matter of Fagan, Decourcy and others."
Also from the Limerick wills index there is:
"Courcey, Mary (widow), Castlefarm, co. Kerry 1798"
-
Margaret de Courcy was Eugene's wife. They had no issue. What appears to be her probate in 1819 is right below Eugene's 1814 one in the probates document, obviously complied at a later date..
Michael O'Mahony and his wife Helen Hollis had 5 known issue, Eugene, Bartholomew 1748, Elizabeth, Anna and Eleanora.
Bartholomew went to France and stayed there, hence the need for the collective documents the summary of which is now held by the French family, and letters. That those documents did once exist, to be able to be produced for the process of gaining French nationalty in 1767, and to postulate for the order of Malta in 1774 begs the question which archives were they all from then, and where are they all now? Documents appear patchy and there seems to be a lot of missing stuff, baptisms, marriages, wills and deaths.
-
The Registered Pedigree of the Mahony family is at https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000530553, this branch is on image 130.
-
Thanks, nice to have a graphic link. That info is what Dominique has used in his tree to go with the documents and letters he has. That it focuses on the downstream French line of Bartholomew suggests that is where it initially originated.