RootsChat.Com
Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Kelly-Paul on Wednesday 10 September 14 08:44 BST (UK)
-
Hi I'm looking for information about Mark Kelly possibly European worked in the sandstone area western Australia don't know his date of birth or when he arrived in Australia but what I do know is that he married Mary Jane batt from manilya station
Their children are Charles b1886 cornelius b1897 angelina. Thomas b1900 timothy
I have no info about him before he married
-
Can you clarify the children's name(s) and date(s)?
When did he wed Mary Jane Batt,
and have you looked on our Australian resources link(s)?
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?board=165.0
Pauline
-
Hi Kelly-Paul,
Welcome to rootschat :)
I can't see a marriage for the couple on W.A. BDM http://www.bdm.dotag.wa.gov.au/
I have only found the birth of Charles so far
1885 KELLY Charles Brackell, father Mark, mother Mary Jane BATT, at Upper Gasgoyne reg 26414
The middle-name of Brackell maybe a good clue about ancestors.
Where is the sandstone area of WA (excuse my ignorance ;D), is that Upper Gasgoyne?
And is Manilya Station in WA? In Upper Gasgoyne?
Do you know when and where Mark and Mary died? Perhaps we can find an obit which tells us more about their background.
If all else fails it would be worth buying the birth certificate for Charles Brackell KELLY as it should list where parents are born married etc
regards,
Ros
correction : Here's what to expect on a birth cert of that year in W.A. http://www.jaunay.com/bdm.html
So it is only after 1896 that most info is given.
-
You need to identify the source of the information you are using please.
"...Manilya Station ....reference to sandstone......"..Their children......cornelius b1897.... angelina. Thomas b1900....... timothy..."
-
I have found the death of a Thomas Kelly aged 75 (approx birth 1884) in 1959 in Gascoyne, Western Australia.
His parents are Mark and Mary J.
-
Please come back and give us some more clues Kelly-Paul :) The more clues you give us the more useful info we can find. There are lots of us wanting to help.
I was born and bred in WA and have no idea where the sandstone area is or where manilya station is so I imagine that others have less idea - well perhaps I am selling them short :)
We are a happy bunch of family history addicts who just want to help :) :)
regards,
Ros
-
hi and guys and thanks umm
Sandstone is in the midwest region of western australia 157kilometers east of mount magnet
Minilya station is 80 km south of corel bay wa so north of the gascoyne
More info on the children
Charles born northampton 1886 died moora 1959
Cornelius born northampton 1897 died unknown
Thomas born northampton 1874(unsure) died carnarvon 1959
Angelina born (unknown) died (unknown)
Timothy (unknown)
-
Marriage of mark mary j are unknown
-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minilya_Station
Cando
-
Marriage in WA
KELLY Cornelius
WILSON Nellie
District Moora Reg#11 1924
Cando
-
Death
KELLY Cornelius
District Northampton Reg#4 1944
Cando
-
It would be very useful to set out in a timeline which records you have confirmed as belonging to your family - it will help to see how they moved around - and which are provisional.
Which of their children do you descend from and do you have marriage and death records for that child? (Copies of certificates not just from the index).
-
I descent from thomas kelly n don't have any married or death certificates
Sorry
My main interest is who is mark kelly
-
And mary jane batt is aboriginal
-
Without at least some certificates, it's going to be a wild goose chase.
You can only do so much with conjecture.
eg
The 1949 death of Thomas gave his age as 75, so born ten years awry from the birth year you gave for him.
Seriously, you need to spring for a certificate or three.
Take advice from here as to which are "essential" and which are "desirable"
Good luck.
Pauline
-
Hi Kelly-Paul,
Thanks for giving us more clues. :) I have been searching but haven't found anything useful :(
regards,
Ros
adding : Who did Thomas KELLY marry?
-
Without at least some certificates, it's going to be a wild goose chase.
You can only do so much with conjecture.
eg
The 1959 death of Thomas gave his age as 75, so born ten years after the birth year you gave for him.
PaulineJ
And mary jane batt is aboriginal
Kelly-Paul
For those chatters who do not live in Australia, you may not be aware that research for people with an aboriginal background can be very difficult. Often events were not registered especially in the more remote areas.
Charles born northampton 1886 died moora 1959
Cornelius born northampton 1897 died unknown
Thomas born northampton 1874(unsure) died carnarvon 1959
Angelina born (unknown) died (unknown)
Timothy (unknown)
Kelly-Paul
Marriage
KELLY Thomas
YOUNG Georgina
District Northampton Reg#9 1912
Deaths
KELLY Thomas 75 years
Father Mark Mother Mary J
District Gascoyne Reg#8 1959
Carnarvon Cemetery
http://www.carnarvon.wa.gov.au/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Carnarvon-Pioneer-Cemetery-Pioneer-Cemetery-Trust.pdf (http://www.carnarvon.wa.gov.au/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Carnarvon-Pioneer-Cemetery-Pioneer-Cemetery-Trust.pdf)
KELLY Thomas 28 Apr 1959 75 years Son of Mark and Mary nee BATT. Husband of Georgina Brother of Angelina BRAND. Grave 526
KELLY Tom 18 Sep 1963 51 years-Aboriginal- Son of Tom and Georgina [JOUND] Grave 637 [Error with Georgina's surname]
Death
BRAND Angelina 76 years
Father Unknown Mother Mary A
District Gascoyne Reg#17 1958
Carnarvon Cemetery
BRAND 24 Dec 1968 15 minutes – daughter of Albert YATES and Barbara BRAND – ggrand daughter of Angelina – Grave 846
BRAND Angelina 16 Jul 1958 76 years [nee KELLY] Wife of George Grave 506
BRAND Mac Henry 20 Apr 1858 2 years-son of Harold and Nellie [nee COCK] grandson of Angelina Grave 499
BRAND Peter Edward 24 Sep 1962 4 ½ months-son of Ethel COUNCILLOR- grandson of Angelina Grave 614
Death
KELLY Cornelius
District Northampton Reg#4 1944
KELLY Charlie
Father Mark Mother Mary
District Moora Reg#37 1959
The Shire of Moora have Moora cemetery records at their offices.
http://www.moora.wa.gov.au/Cemetery.aspx
I'll leave this now as it's getting late for me :)
Cheers :)
Cando
-
The OP & extended family have a Kelly Family Tree on FB containing information to save repeating it here. There is also a lot of information on the timeline.
You do not need to be a family member or join FB to view it.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Kelly-Family-tree/578945748825080
-
These links may help
http://www.sro.wa.gov.au/archive-collection/collection/aboriginal-records/aboriginal-family-history
http://slwa.wa.gov.au/find/guides/indigenous_material/indigenous
http://www.daa.wa.gov.au/en/Aboriginal-History-Research-Unit/
www.aiatsis.gov.au/_files/fhu/brief_guide.pdf
Cando
-
This is possibly Angelina's marriage....only marriage for a George BRAND to an Angelina. Possibly Angelina was raised by people other than her parents.
BRAND George Douglas
MORGAN Angelina Selina
District Star of the East Reg#965 1901
Cando
-
Mark KELLY - 1898
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article3203899
-
General description of the Bangemall-Gascoyne goldfield
http://www.rootschat.com/links/019zs/
Book published about Bangemall - Bang-em-all
http://www.hesperianpress.com/index.php/booklist/titles-a-d/b-titles
http://www.dcp.wa.gov.au/SupportingIndividualsAndFamilies/Documents/LookingWest.pdf
Page 75
Minilya Station files are held by
Family Information Records Bureau
Department for Community Development
189 Royal Street
East Perth WA 6004
Tel (08) 9222 2777
Fax (08) 9222 2776
Freecall 1800 000 277
Wonder if the Sandstone Museum holds any records that may help you.
http://www.sandstone.wa.gov.au/heritage-museum.aspx
or
Northampton Historical Society
http://www.collectionsaustralia.net/org/1194/about/
Cheers :)
Cando
-
The OP & extended family have a Kelly Family Tree on FB containing information to save repeating it here. There is also a lot of information on the timeline.
You do not need to be a family member or join FB to view it.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Kelly-Family-tree/578945748825080
The font is so small it is almost illegible so impossible to know whether or not I am duplicating information. You must have good vision ;)
Cheers
Cando
-
Hi there, I'm only new to my family history but I have only recently been told that Mark Kelly & Mary Jane Batt are my great great grandparents. My great grandmother is Angela? (Angelina) Brand (1st 'husband' George Brand) & (2nd 'husband' Jack Haselby). I have been told that Mark Kelly was 'full blood' aboriginal and Mary Jane Batt was 'half caste' so not possibly European. I will contact my 4th cousin to see if she knows anymore information.
-
Hi Sue,
Mark Kelly and Mary Jane Batt were my 3rd Great Grandparents. Mary Jane was half Aboriginal, and Ancestry DNA records indicate her father (George Batt) as having been English. Back in those days State Records usually addressed white Australians as English or British persons.
Mark, on the other hand, was not Aboriginal, in most records, he is referred to as Irish or European and that his birth year was 1859/1860. I've yet to find out whether or not he was born in Australia, Ireland or the UK. Birth records of Mary Jane are accessible online, for example, she was born in Minilya Station and grew up around Sandstone. But trying to find any birth information on Mark is terribly tricky.
The best I've managed to find is an 1864 Empress of the Seas passenger list outlining that a 5-Year-Old named Mark Kelly came to Australia as an assisted passenger. The ship had travelled from Liverpool to Melbourne. But confirming whether or not this is our ancestor is tough as Mark Kelly is an incredibly common and generic name. Not to mention, he was not the only Irish/European Mark Kelly born around 1859 to end up in Australia... Furthermore, back in those days, it was common practice for Britain to send orphans or foster children to Australia. Many of these children ended up being placed in the Missions with Aboriginal children. This might explain how Mark came to meet Mary Jane, although, this is just me speculating with the little information I've been able to find.
I should also mention that Mark Kelly was Mary Jane Batt's second husband, her first husband's name was Joe Lennie, and he was Aboriginal. So whoever told you that Mark was Aboriginal just got their husbands mixed up.
Anyway, during the 1890s, Mark Kelly lived and worked on the Goldfields at Bangemall Hall. There's actually an 1898 West Australian article about Bangemall Hall that you can view online via Trove. This one, in particular, explains how Mark had almost been burned to death when his bough hut caught fire while he slept. Luckily, he had been rescued by a friend. Furthermore, the family had lived around the Gascoyne and Murchison regions until their children and children's children ended up further down south, in or around Perth. This was due to them having been placed in the Moore River Settlement, and later, Roeland's Mission. Other areas include Wagin and Pinjarra, but there are still some Kelly's who live closer to the top end of West Australia.
And to finish off this long reply, you mentioned that Angelina Brand was your Great Grandmother? Her birth name was Angelina Rose Kelly and her brother, Charles Brackell Kelly, was my 2nd Great Grandfather.
I hope that what I've written has been of some help to you :)
All the best,
Jocelyn.
-
Thank you Jocelyn. That has cleared up a few questions.
-
Mary Jane Batt was apparantly born in Wyndham. Her first partner was Mark Kelly (apparently a white man). Her second was an Aboriginal man named Brindy aka Harry Bluff. Mark with Mary had 2 children - Tom and Charles. Brindy and Mary had 2 children - Cornelius and Angelina. Much of this information comes from Norman Tindale Sheets, police gazettes and Trove.
https://ahwaportal.dlgsc.wa.gov.au/online-catalogue/search-online-catalogue/