RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: augereau on Sunday 14 September 14 07:58 BST (UK)
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Hello rootschatters,
My great x 5 grandfather Benjamin Johnston's youngest daughter, Jane Johnston was born in 1757 and she married a John Gunstan HOLMES, I don't have the marriage date. I think he came from Sligo.
They had three children - George, John & Maria. Maria was born about 1784.
Maria married into the FIGGIS family.
I think John G. Holmes died in 1826 and his wife Jane in 1842.
As far as I can see, George and John married on the same day, 3rd January 1836, in St Nicholas Within, Dublin. George married Sarah Gilfoyle and John, Marianne Magrane.
George and John were both witnesses to the marriage of Frederick Holmes in the same church to Elizabeth Johnston in Jan 1829. I don't know where Frederick fits in, a brother or a cousin ?
Can anyone please help me to find further information about John Gunstan Holmes and his sons?
Many thanks in advance for any help at all - Liz Augereau
ps This message was posted by mistake to "Europe" category, so I am sending it on to "Ireland"
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http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/e3814f0058970
A son of George who appears to be dead by 1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/North_Dock/Marlborough_Street/1329400/
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http://www.glasnevintrust.ie/genealogy/results/index.xml
A John Holmes buried Glasnevin age 50 in 1897 born circa 1847 in an extended grave,means others buried in same plot,his name comes up when using Gardiner as part of address.
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There is no father's names on the George and John marriages on Irish Genealogy for 3 Jan 1836.
Why do you think they are John and Jean's children?
Where did you get the information on John and Jean's marriage?
Where did you get the information on their children?
What is the connection to Dublin?
Why do you think John came from Sligo?
A lot of questions but there is no point following the wrong people and you have a lot of 'I think' in you post.
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you could try this site
http://www.DublinHeritage.ie/parish_records/Index.html
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Thank you very much, Dathai, for the info about John Holmes, son of George - how can I get the names of the other Holmes in the grave in Glasnevin - I live in France !
Sinann,
The info about Jane Johnston & John G. Holmes marriage came from the Figgis family and also from an uncle's will where Jane is mentioned. Her three children are mentioned in the same will ...
That is why I was wondering about Frederick Holmes and what is his connection to George and John as he is not mentioned in the uncle's will.
Thanks you for the Dublin Heritage site, Rathmore, I'll have a look
best regards to all, Liz
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You haven't said what the connection to Dublin is or why you think these two are the correct George and John.
Did Jean and John marry in Ireland, in Dublin?
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Jane Johnston was born and lived in Dublin. I presume that these George and John Holmes are the right ones as the dates fit - or else they would be a huge coincidence !
I don't know where John & Jane married, most probably in Dublin...
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Jane Johnston was born and lived in Dublin. I presume that these George and John Holmes are the right ones as the dates fit - or else they would be a huge coincidence !
I don't know where John & Jane married, most probably in Dublin...
This is what I was getting at, they could be right ones sure or Jane and John my not have even lived in Dublin, or both their sons may not have married, or may not have married the same day, or may not have married in Dublin, before you spend time or money following this George and John, who may not even be brothers, you need to find the baptisms for the children and/or the parents marriage. Something concrete to tie them to a parish or a street, a county.
You are dealing with very early records which are far from compleat.
Was there any address' given in the will?
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You can purchase credits from Glasnevin Trust to see who's interned in a grave.There is no guarantee that this burial is for the same John Holmes, as Sinann said you need facts before you go spending good money on the wrong family.
It is a gamble but if you are intent on satisfying your curiosity to either rule him in or out its up to yourself to proceed.
http://www.glasnevintrust.ie/genealogy/trace-you-ancestry/
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This may be a first marriage for John Holmes
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/9cfde60438300
Joseph Phelan brother of Mary Francis Phelan seems to have married a daughter from Johns first marriage making him his father in law and brother in law?note the witness names.
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/a28aa90058984
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A daughter Roseanna
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/cc52bf0057253
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The uncle's will has an address in Dublin, Camden Street.
Jane Holmes nee Johnston was living in Rathmines when she died in 1842. Her parents also lived in Dublin in Castle St.
Irish records are very difficult I know, and I have never been able to find Jane & JGH's marriage, nor the baptisms of their children ....... that is why I asked for help with this brick wall !!
I got the information from Glasnevin for eight euros :
John Martin Holmes, aged 50, musician, 24 Middle Gardiner St,
Sarah Holmes, aged 55, servant, 32 Bloomfield Ave
Teresa Phelan, aged 53, dressmaker, 41 Marlborough St.
The other names don't mean anything to me : Patrick Gannon d.1889, James Byrne d.1878, Agnes Smullen d.1845, Margaret Gallagher d.1842, Elizabeth Kenny d.1861
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Thank you for Roseanna - the only slight hesitation I have about this John Holmes (whose father was George...) is that he is catholic whereas my Johnston ancestors all seem to have been very strong Church of ireland, anglicans...
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There are a good few Johnston's of Castle Street in St. Werburgh but if this was always there home address Jean managed to avoid the church.
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I'm trying the IGP site, Did you know if your Holmes ever live in Castlewood House Rathmines? A John Holmes owned it in 1873.
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Sinann, I am sorry, I don't know if my John Holmes lived in Castlewood House - I have been looking in some old papers and found that Jane Holmes nee Johnston was living at 9 Richmond Hill Rathmines when she died - Her funeral was 30th March 1842 in St Paul's ... would that be in Gormanstown ?
I have a recollection that her uncle was buried in Gormanstown.
Thank you again for all your help.
Liz
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I wonder is this where she lived http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,716645,730184,7,8
A Richmond Hill address today seems to be closer to the city. Wish I knew Dublin better.
Pretty sure all the Irish Genealogy Dublin Records are city centre, RootsIreland does out side the centre.
So I think, could be way off, its St.Pauls North King Street.
http://www.libraryireland.com/topog/D/St-Pauls-Parish-Dublin.php
It isn't a church anymore and I can't see a cemetery but according to IGP site the cemetery was used up to 1860.
Quite a few Holmes deaths in St.Pauls http://www.rootschat.com/links/01a0e/
Including Jean but transcribed as Jane, I can't see the original on my ipad it won'tshow the whole page.
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the site I gave you is on this:
http://www.DublinHeritage.ie
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Yes, Sinann, it must be that St Paul's ... many thanks too for the Holmes burials , JGH is there too in Oct 1826. I'll keep digging !
Thank you Rathmore for the Dublin Heritage site
best regards, Liz
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I only noticed later that there are also Grangegorman records on Irish Genealogy. They only have 4 burials for though. What was the Uncle's name?
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Edmund Johnston who died in 1828 -
I noticed too that Benjmain JOhnston, Jane's father, who died 1757 before she was born , is also buried in the St Paul's you found ... so I suppose this is the right one, and not the Grangegorman one.
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The Church and Graveyard
http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,714466,734631,7,9
Click on Map View (beta) it says disused burial ground
Look on Google maps and the Graveyard is a car park!
There is a bit of ground unused but it looks like it's just got rubbish, waiting to be built on.
Where did the graves and headstones go?
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Many thanks for the map - I don't know what happens to bones and headstones, they must be put somewhere .....
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Hello rootschatters,
My great x 5 grandfather Benjamin Johnston's youngest daughter, Jane Johnston was born in 1757 and she married a John Gunstan HOLMES, I don't have the marriage date. I think he came from Sligo.
They had three children - George, John & Maria. Maria was born about 1784.
Maria married into the FIGGIS family.
I think John G. Holmes died in 1826 and his wife Jane in 1842.
As far as I can see, George and John married on the same day, 3rd January 1836, in St Nicholas Within, Dublin. George married Sarah Gilfoyle and John, Marianne Magrane.
George and John were both witnesses to the marriage of Frederick Holmes in the same church to Elizabeth Johnston in Jan 1829. I don't know where Frederick fits in, a brother or a cousin ?
Can anyone please help me to find further information about John Gunstan Holmes and his sons?
Many thanks in advance for any help at all - Liz Augereau
ps This message was posted by mistake to "Europe" category, so I am sending it on to "Ireland"
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Hello CaffMcD,
Welcome to RootsChat :)
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Regards
Sarah