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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: BassinghamTerrier on Sunday 14 September 14 16:10 BST (UK)
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Hi all
Not a lot to go on here, other than some hazy memories of a great aunt, I'm afraid, but I have been able to piece together some stuff that might just help.
I'm looking for a family of TILBURY in the 1901 census which would include three sisters - Edith (possibly Edith Mary), Emily Louise and Kathleen Ann(ie). Judging by what I've been able to find regarding marriages and deaths - and some of those are only possibilities rather than being etched in stone! - I can suggest birth dates as follows ...
- Edith (Mary?) two poss born 1885, Wandsworth and Wycombe - definitely married Lawrence B. Titmas in Sep Q 1921, Bromley; poss death (Edith TitmUs) in Birmingham, 1955 aged 70.
- Emily (Louise) Tilbury poss born in Bethnal Green in Sep Q of 1895 (or at least that's the only one I can find in the right era (1890s); never married, but did produce Kathleen Mary Tilbury in 1923; no idea of a death date.
- Kathleen A(nnie?) born in Bromley in Dec Q of 1899; then a definite marriage for Frederick C. Gower and Kathleen A Tilbury in West Ham, Jun Q 1924; finally there's a death in Battle in Dec Q of 1963 for Kathleen A Gower, aged 64 so that seems to have tied that one up!
Any help for 1901 - and before if poss for the ancestors - would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
MT ;)
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Could this be the family in 1901?? Living at 3, Pembroke Rd, Bromley in Kent. All children and niece born in Bromley Kent
Robert Tilbury 43 Postman b Penn, Bucks
Sarah Tilbury 39 b London
Ellen G Tilbury 16
William E Tilbury 14
Frederick G Tilbury 12
Louisa E Tilbury 9
Edith A Tilbury 6
Kathleen A Tilbury 1
Kate Wenborn 5 Niece
Kay
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By 1911 there is another child son Robert Ernest.
Edith is Edith Alice.
This is probably parents marriage seeing as they had a niece with surname Wenborn in 1901.
Kensington Mar 1884
Robert Tilbury
Sarah Wenborn
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The same family I think in 1891. Transcribed as Tellbury and looks like that on the image. Living at 4 Beechfield or Birchfield Cottages. Widmore Rd Bromley
Robert Tellbury 33 Postman B Buckinghamshire
Sarah Tellbury 25 b London
Ellen Grace Tellbury 6
William Edwd Tellbury 4
Fredk George Tellbury 2
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Well that certainly looks very promising, I believe.
I did rather think that my birthdate of 1885 for Edith was a little too early, and the Birmingham death seems rather unlikely for sisters who seem to have been generally based in Bexhill, Battle and Bromley most of their later lives.
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Birth for Louisa Emily Bromley Jun 1891.
There's a Louisa E death in Willesden Dec 1948 age 55.
Plus another one in Brentwood Jun 1963 age 72.
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*SIGH*
These all seem so plausible!
Unfortunately, I can't say when Emily Louise/Louisa Emily died. I've emailed the great-aunt for some further info, but I have no idea when she might respond. :(
Until then, just keep 'em coming; I'm sure that we'll be able to cobble it all together from this lot. :)
Birth for Louisa Emily Bromley Jun 1891.
And yes -since the thread threw up that variation on the name I'd gone and found that one too. ;)
MT ;)
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Can't see a death for Lawrence to see what area they were living but there is an
Edith A Titmuss death Jun 1951 Thanet age 85 is that about right age or no?
Edith Alice birth Bromley Dec 1894 so no not the right age for the death above.
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Can't see a death for Lawrence to see what area they were living but there is an
Edith A Titmuss death Jun 1951 Thanet age 85 is that about right age or no?
With a rough bit of maths I'd say "no" - that would make the birth c1866 which would be way too early.
Perhaps I forgot to add that apparently they lived in Bexhill, Sussex. Sorry.
Thanks anyway.
MT ;)
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You're right just corrected myself :) Maths not my strong point but even I can see that one is wrong!
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You're right just corrected myself :) Maths not my strong point but even I can see that one is wrong!
LOL! :D - and I never usually use txtspk!!
MT ;)
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Funny you mentioned Battle as death for one as there is a tree with Lawrence Buchanon Titmas - if indeed the B was Buchanan - death Battle 1976 age 80 but the tree doesn't mention a Mrs for him.
Death index
Edith Alice Titmas birth 6 Nov 1894 death Dec 1983 age 89 Hastings and Rother Sussex.
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Well the age and everything else would be right, wouldn't it?
Shame about the lack of a wife though. :(
Meanwhile, the Edith Alice looks good! :)
MT ;)
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OK ... little bit of an update from g-aunt!
It turns out that she's remembered Emily Louise/Louisa Emily's birthday was 5th May - she was her granny after all!
And it is very possible that she was Louisa Emily rather than Emily Louise.
She thinks that the Wandsworth and Wycombe Edith deaths are a no-go.
It seems that she recalls a woman they called Auntie Alice, and is reasonably certain that she would have been Edith Alice, so that fits too. She seems to recall that Aunt Alice died in Bexhill.
She's also happy with all the Kathleen Anne Tilbury B, M and D info; she knew her as Auntie Anne.
Last little tidbit is in respect of Louisa/Emily - she died in Billericay. She lived with g-aunt in Billericay and one day she thought her gran was asleep and then when she got home from school she discovered that she had actually died in the night. Her death might have been registered at Brentwood Essex, somewhere late 1950s, early 60s.
The 1901 family posted by Kay99 has really excited her! :)
MT ;)
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Glad your g-aunt is excited :) The possible death that Milliepede found in 1963 in Brentwood would cover Billericay.
Birth for Louisa Emily Bromley Jun 1891.
There's a Louisa E death in Willesden Dec 1948 age 55.
Plus another one in Brentwood Jun 1963 age 72.
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Thanks for confirming that, Kay.
My geography is cr*p anywhere south of Nottingham these days! :)
MT ;)
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Did you want anything on the other siblings MT or just those 3 girls?
These are the Tilbury births in Bromley from 1884-1911. Your couple had 7 and there are 8 listed so a rogue one in there somewhere - must be Horace belonged to another couple.
Ellen Grace 1884
William Edward 1886
Frederick George 1888
Louisa Emily 1891
Horace Edwin P 1892
Edith Alice 1894
Kathleen Annie 1899
Robert Ernest 1903
Horace E P marries and dies in Croydon.
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Possible deaths for parents Robert and Sarah. Ages fit with last census in Bromley.
Robert 1934 Bromley age 76
Sarah 1916 Bromley age 54
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Me again!
Back for more ...
Been looking for a Robert Tilbury birth, and the only one I can find - in the area - is Robert Tilbury born Jun Q 1857, registered in Amersham. Now, as I've already said, my geography is rubbish but Google tells me it's 7.3 miles from Amersham to Penn, so it's reasonable that this would be OK; he could have been born in Penn but registered in Amersham as the nearest large town, yes?
The only problem with this would be that he would be 77 when he dies using the death for a Robert death cited earlier, but that chap is 76.
However, I'm prepared to bend with the wind here, as I know that very often the informant wasn't always 100% certain how old the deceased was.
Thoughts?
MT ;)
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This Website has details of the Tilbury families throughout the Country.
http://freepages.family.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cmtilbury/links.html
and in Surrey
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cmtilbury/godalming.html
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WOW!! Now, THAT is truly jaw-dropping!
I don't know where to start!! :o :o :o
MT ;)
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However, I'm prepared to bend with the wind here, as I know that very often the informant wasn't always 100% certain how old the deceased was.
76/77 bend with the wind my friend, bend with the wind ;D
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And, good news - I've found the parents in the 1881 census! :D
It seems that they are together at 16 Thurloe Sq, Kensington (RG11/44 folio 68 page 24)
Henry Goding 76
Laura Goding 68
Catherine Goding 30
Robt. Tilbury 23
Elizth. Inskip 77
Sarah Wenborn 19
I can't access all of the details, but I'm guessing that they must be servants? ??? I think it's a bit posh around there ...
MT ;)
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You are correct Sarah is a housemaid and Robert a footman :) The other lady is the cook.
Head of the house occupation is "inherited lands" ooh-er
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Just found it on Google street view; some dosh been invested there! :D
Thanks for the confirmation, Millie. :)
Do you think it's poss to go back another decade to find HIS parents? :o
MT ;)
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1861 Penn Buckinghamshire
Joseph Tilbury 39
Elizabeth 37
Joseph Lawrance 11
Edward 10
George Lawrance 8
Sarah Ann 6
Robert 3
Elizabeth 1
1871
Elizabeth 46
Edward 20
George 18
Robert 13 errand boy
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Now THAT ONE bears out my thinking in re: the Amersham birth; Robert HAS to be born 1857 (or very early 1858) for that census to be correct, and NOT 1858.
Nice one, Millie! :D
(ermmm ... any piece/folio details, please? Pretty please?)
MT ;)
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ermmm.....where do I find that?!
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:D
Don't worry - not a problem!
Thanks again for your invaluable support!
MT ;)
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hang on I see something......is this it
1861
Amersham reg district
Beaconsfield sub district
Piece 849
Folio 15
Page 2
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1871
Amersham
Beaconsfield
Piece 1397
Folio 4
Page 2
See I've taught myself something there by you asking for it, next time someone asks for a folio I will be able to deliver :D
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hang on I see something......is this it
1861
Amersham reg district
Beaconsfield sub district
Piece 849
Folio 15
Page 2
Yup!
You're a * S * T * A * R * !!
MT ;)
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Marriage Amersham Dec 1847
Joseph Tilbury
Elizabeth Lawrence
which makes perfect sense as 2 of the children had Lawrence as a middle name.
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1851 with folio bits
Joseph 21
Elizabeth 29 born Norfolk
Joseph Lawrence 1
Edward 1 month
Amersham
Missenden
Piece 1717
Folio 594
page 1
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Marriage Amersham Dec 1847
Joseph Tilbury
Elizabeth Lawrence
which makes perfect sense as 2 of the children had Lawrence as a middle name.
Dang!! I was going to look for this one myself - I knew it was going to be that connection, but I'm busy trying to put all of this info into RootsMagic!
You're just too quick for me, Millie! :D :D
MT ;)
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1871
Amersham
Beaconsfield
Piece 1397
Folio 4
Page 2
See I've taught myself something there by you asking for it, next time someone asks for a folio I will be able to deliver :D
Is this one still Penn, Bucks?
Do we have any occupations for the chaps, please?
MT ;)
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Occupations
1851 & 1861
Joseph the father is a journeyman bricklayer
son Joseph in 1861 bricklayers labourer - wonder who he worked for!
Yes 1851 still Penn Buckinghamshire. Address Penn Church.
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1871 same address Penn Church
Elizabeth 46 laundress widow - possible death for Joseph in 1865
Edward 20 journeyman bricklayer
George 18 gardener
Robert 13 errand boy
Elizabeth soldiers on
1881 Penn age 56 laundress with a grandson William Tilbury born Manchester age 6 and a nephew George Cruikshank born Chelsea age 12
1891 Penn age 71 laundress with same grandson William age 16
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Onto Sarah Wenborn hmmm well she could be this one in Romford Essex.
1871
Sarah Wenborn 41 married occupation looks like "a butlers wife"
Ellen 11
Sarah 9
Mildred 7
Elizabeth 5
Louisa 5
Fanny 3
William 1
Do you want the bits - piece 1644 folio 70 page 3
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1881 Romford
Sarah is a widow 50 occupation monkey nurse - or it could be monthly nurse
Lizzie 15
Fanny 13
William 11
Hariet 9
Emily 9
Lots of daughters and lots of twins if the ages are anything to go by.
Piece 1743 folio 81 page 34
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Frustratingly Sarah is never with a husband but I guess we could look for a butler on his own somewhere doing his job *
1861 St Pancras Middlesex
Sarah 31 butlers wife
Walter 2
Ellen 1
Piece 104 folio 35 page 66
* Aha there's a Thomas on his own who is a butler in Paddington Middlesex ;D
1861 age 32 servant occupation butler born Tunbridge Kent 1829. Must be him surely.
There's a possible marriage in Marylebone Jun 1858
Thomas Wenborn Sarah Singer or Sarah Beard.
Other groom John Seward.
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I would say this is his death in Romford Dec 1873 age 44 Thomas Wenborn.
So he should be somewhere being a butler on his own in 1871. Just to wrap him up as it were :)
Yes there he is under Thomas Mewborne in Romford Essex servant occ butler age 42.
Address Hare? Street something like Gidea Hall
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Thomas Wenborn 12 in 1841 Tombridge Kent is with
Thomas 45 ag lab
Philadelphia 45
John 20 ag lab
Emily 20
George 16
Thomas 12
Jane 10
Mary 7
James 3
In 1851 Thomas 21 is a footman in Rotherfield Sussex
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1881 Romford
Sarah is a widow 50 occupation monkey nurse - or it could be monthly nurse
I don't often LOL, (I h8 txtspk!) but I really did at that one.
How much would I prefer to tell my rellie that her g-g-grandmother Wenborn was a monkey nurse?!! :D :D
MT ;)
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It was just too tempting to resist ;D
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Just to destroy the illusion, I've googled 'monthly nurse', viz ...
"A Monthly Nurse was a woman who, in 18th and 19th century England, looked after a mother, and her baby also, for the first few weeks after birth."
Nowhere near as funny is it?
Meant to say "thanks" for all the effort that EVERYONE has put in by contributing to this thread.
I'm going to call it a day now and send my rellie (actually worked out now that she's NOT a g-aunt, but a cousin once removed - my mum's cousin) all the stuff once I've input it to my RootsMagic system.
You're all *S*T*A*R*S*!!! :D
MT ;)
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Just to add the 1891 for Sarah for completeness.
Islington
Arthur Legg 25 mechanical engineer
Catherine C 27
Cormonles 1 month
Annie Colley 30 servant
Sarah Wenborn 59 says niece but it's nurse - mon....thly nurse
Birthplace for all down as Islington.
Piece 171
Folio 37
page 22
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There's a possible marriage in Marylebone Jun 1858
Thomas Wenborn Sarah Singer or Sarah Beard.
Other groom John Seward.
Modify message
6 April 1858
Thomas Wenborn, full age, bachelor, servant, 40 York Place, father Thomas Wenborn, gardener
Sarah Beard, full age, spinster, parish of St Pancras, father Isaac Beard, greengrocer
I was leaning towards Sarah Beard as the correct bride because I found her in 1851 as a nurse.
Baptism for Sarah 27 Jan 1830 (born 7 Jan) parents Isaac and Isabella, St James Westminster Middlesex.
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Brilliant, Millie - just brilliant.
Merci beaucoup!
MT ;)
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Robert TILBURY's ancestors are on my website here:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cmtilbury/pennbucks.html
back to at least 1600, with a possible Edward T b. latest c.1580
If you're able to add or correct anything, or would like to send me some notes about your link to the Ts, which I could publish as an additional page on my site, I'd be very pleased. Hope you find something helpful.
Caro
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Thanks for that, Caro - it looks really interesting.
One of my mother's cousins was daughter to a Tilbury by birth and, to be honest, I have now passed on all the bits that I did on the Tilbury line so I can't add anything to this thread that isn't already here present. I will also now send on the link to your website and I'm sure that she will find it useful.
Sorry that I can't be of assistance. :(
MT ;)