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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: cathieee on Monday 15 September 14 16:09 BST (UK)
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my great nan kate pilcher her reall name is catherine but she always went by kate,moved over to liverpool from cork ireland after her husband stephen pilcher who was a coast guard with the royal navy died in 1918,i am trying to find out what year she moved here,i ve been told that she lived in upper parliament st liverpool before she moved to abbingdon rd walton,i was just wondering if anyone could find out when she shows up on electoral rolls.....thanks cathie
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Hi cathieee
Welcome to Rootschat ;D
Electoral registers may not help if she wasn't eligible to vote.
All women didn't get the vote until 1928.
Dawn
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hi,i dont know if im doing this right but its the only reply button i can see,i ve looked on ancestry and she is logged in england from 1918 but because i cant afford to join it wont let me see it,is there any free way you can look them up on line ???,also do you know whats the best web sites for looking up irish records,i ve paid for a few on roots ireland but as im stuck now i really cant afford to pay for ifs buts and maybe s,thanx for getting in touch x :)
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Hi
Is this them in Ireland in 1901?
44 in Ballynacourty (Clonea, Waterford)
Pilcher Stephen 37 Male Head of Family
Pilcher Kate 22 Female Wife
Pilcher Stephen 2 Male Son
Pilcher Margret Clara 1 Female Daughter
Heather
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Welcome to rootschat from me too Cathie. :)
1901 and 1911 Irish censuses are free:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/
Your local library may have Ancestry Library Edition which you can use for free. Both Ancestry and Find my Past have 2 week free trials which you can take up, and perhaps even ask friends or relatives if they will join up and let you use their free two week trial. Very important though is to ensure that you cancel the trial before the two weeks is up otherwise they will charge you for a whole year's subscription. Just be very careful with that. I used to take free trials when I knew I had two weeks with nothing to do so I could get the most out of it.
Also you can ask for help on rootschat of course, and people may be able to help you. However we are still unable to do lookups from the 1911 census.
Also www.freebmd.org.uk and www.freecen.org.uk can be useful though neither have complete coverage for all areas.
Another useful site:https://familysearch.org/search/collection/igi
Irish records can be a bit hit and miss. I've not had any luck with any of them though some people do. There are some Irish records here (scroll down the page):
https://familysearch.org/search/collection/list#page=1®ion=UNITED_KINGDOM_IRELAND
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i ve looked on ancestry and she is logged in england from 1918
Which record set was this?
Maybe we can find an alternative source of these records, if we knew what they were? ;D
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Hi
There are a couple of records for a Kate Pilcher in the 1918 London Electoral Rolls on Ancestry but from what you have said it is highly unlikely to be the person you are enquiring about.
Andy
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my great nan kate pilcher her reall name is catherine but she always went by kate,moved over to liverpool from cork ireland after her husband stephen pilcher who was a coast guard with the royal navy died in 1918,i am trying to find out what year she moved here,i ve been told that she lived in upper parliament st liverpool before she moved to abbingdon rd walton,i was just wondering if anyone could find out when she shows up on electoral rolls.....thanks cathie
I know this name here in Liverpool ...so I went on www.freebmd.org.uk and
www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html both sites have Pilcher in Liverpool ...freebmd from 1837 and Lan-opc from 1828.....and Master Mariner as father crop up a few times ...
so - do you not think it a little strange that Kate came to Liverpool AFTER Stephens death ??...do you know that Kate was born in Ireland ??....could it be possible Kate came to Liverpool to be with family ?.....this is an example of baptisms for Pilcher in Liverpool in 1800`s
baptism 4th march 1829 St Peter ,Liverpool
Elizabeth Naomi Pilcher - daughter of Thomas Pilcher and Naomi
abode Park Lane
occupation Mariner
later on on other baptisms Thomas (Brittanicus) Pilcher is a Customs Officer
baptism 10th feb 1840 St Peter ,Liverpool
Albert Jeffery Pilcher - son of William Pilcher and Charlotte
abode Russell Street
occ Master Mariner
so it looks to me like Stephen Pilcher who died in Ireland may have had family in Liverpool - probably with money judging by their occupations - still Master Mariners in 1880`s
baptism 21st may 1882 St Cuthbert,Everton,Liverpool
Robert Stuart Pilcher - son of Edward Pilcher and Annie
born 28th Jan 1882
abode 11 Tancred Road
occupation - Master Mariner
Mariner / Master Mariner / Customs Officer / Coastguard in Royal Navy ???...I think there might be some sort of connection for Stephen Pilcher and the Liverpool seamen Pilcher ??
otherwise - why would Kate come to Liverpool ??
is Nigel Pilcher any relation ?? quite well known in teaching youngsters acting skills
http://www.bmdsonline.co.uk/31006707
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You can access the 1911 Irish census for free.
This should link to their page
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001785039/
Stephen is shown as Station Officer Coastguard, Stephen & Kate are born in Cork, 6 children all born in Ireland, all Roman Catholic
There is a link here to his Irish probate record and you can click on the camera icon to see the image without charge
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/K62F-37X
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Thanks Dawn - born in Cork - so it doesn`t look like there was a connection to the Liverpool Pilcher family ....just a coincidence regarding the seafaring families ....
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hi thanks to you all,but i should have said that i ve seen both 1901 and 1911 irish census s first in clare second in waterford ,i have my g grandfathers naval record and his fathers who was also a coast guard called stephen pilcher,
i also have my g nans baptism record which i paid for on roots ireland she was born in ladysbridge ballymacoda co cork in 1877,i also have her parents marrage record,same place in 1876,their names were patrick cunningham and margaret ahern,i already knew that my nans name before marrage was catherine cunningham,she had 2 sisters ellen and mary born 1876 cork and 1881 waterford.
theres 2 things i m looking for 1, the family above,apart from those records i can find nothing about them ,patrick cunningham,margaret cunningham (ahern),ellen cunningham or margaret cunningham,i cant find them on any census,no birth record for the parents,no marrage records for the sisters ,its like they all just disappeared,i know my mum said kate had fallen out with her family,but my mum knew she had 2 sisters (my lovely mum died a year ago)
2 the other thing im trying to find out is when kate came over to england,her 3 daughters clara and maud went to london and were private nurses,my nan came over to batley yorkshire to train as a theatre nurse,her 2 surviving sons went to greenwich naval collage,so i dont know why kate chose liverpool to come to ,stephen pilchers family were from deal area in kent,no connection with liverpool and kate was irish on both sides of her family
hope this explains things a bit more,if the pilchers in liverpool were conected to stephen pilcher then he must have been a bigamist and sailed between the 2 families,and the only place in england he was stationed at was mousehole cornwall in 1891 to 96,this info is from his naval record and he is on the 1891 england census
thanks again all
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I think it would make your posts much easier to read if everything didn't run together so much and you used proper punctuation for names. For example, my nans name before marrage was Catherine Cunningham. She had 2 sisters Ellen and Mary born 1876 Cork and 1881 Waterford. rather than "my nans name before marrage was catherine cunningham,she had 2 sisters ellen and mary born 1876 cork and 1881 waterford."
It's not entirely clear which sister (Ellen or Mary) was born when and where and the source for that information but I did find an extracted record for a Mary Ellen Cunningham in 1877 Cork with parents Patrick Cunningham & Margaret Hierne (which might be the same as Ahern?)-
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FGLZ-GMZ
I also searched the extracted Irish births (1864-c1882) on the LDS site for other children of Patrick Cunningham & Margaret __ without finding others which is a bit worrying. So, are you sure that the baptismal record you found for Kate Cunningham is really your great-grandmother? Do you have the names of both her parents from another source? It would be a shame if you spent lots of time researching the wrong family.
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... if the pilchers in liverpool were conected to stephen pilcher then he must have been a bigamist and sailed between the 2 families,and the only place in england he was stationed at was mousehole cornwall in 1891 to 96,this info is from his naval record and he is on the 1891 england census
From the dates and names garsonite posted earlier I can't see any mention of any Stephen Pilcher (I haven't checked all possibilities in the links) and there might or might not be a connection to a Liverpool family so best making a note of the details in case you later find a connection.
Am I correct in thinking that you do not have a marriage certificate for Stephen Pilcher and Kate Cunningham? If you don't have that yet it would probably wise to start looking for it as it should list the name & occupation of Kate's father as well as where she was living at the time.
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hi again,sorry about the punctuation , but im a one finger typist,so doing fullstops and capitals just makes it take longer
this is to the first aghadowey
1. on the 1901 census it says my g nan (catherine cunningham) was from ballymacoda co cork
the only place i could find parish registers for ballymacoda was on roots ireland
i put in catherine cunningham with a 1 year either way,one record showed up,i put the same in with a 10 year either way and there was still only one registery,so i paid to see it
it was from ladysbridge ballymacoda,so seeing that it was the only one i would have thought that seeing as she was from there and the birth or baptism within a year of her age on the census that it must be her
i know from my mum that she had 2 sisters , so i then put in her parents names looking for children ,again i put a 20 year gap from 1870 to 1890 and it showed up 3 births,one of them my g nan ,there was also a baptism for a ellen cunningham born 1876 in same place and there was a baptism for a mary cunningham moord waterford 1881
all these girls parents are patrick and margaret (ahern) cunningham,there are no other records for any other births by these parents, so again i would have thought that that pointed to being the right family
i should just point out that i did the search first for the whole of ireland and there s still only 3 births for a patrick and margaret (ahern) cunningham.
to the second point,i cant find the exact marrage cert for kate and stephen pilcher,its not on any of the free sites and ones i have been able to look at dont give any mention to her father ,but i will start looking more into that side.
i should also point out that my g nans (kate) first daughter is called margaret clara,though she always used just the clara, so she could have been named after her nan.
her second daughter is called maud mary,again mary was the name of her younger sister
i think with the pilcher side the first born son is always called stephen,going back 3 generations that i know of, there was 7 years between stephen (son) and ernest being born and if she had fell out with her family like my mum always said this is maybe why none of her boys were given her fathers name.
i hope this has made things more clear for you,and i do really appreciate any help you can give me , i just hope you realise that im not just sitting here twiddling my thumbs expecting others to do the work for me,i ve really done all that i can,i ve just been going round in circles for about 6 months now......just a thought,i thought maybe the rest of her family had all emigrated and that was why i cant find them on the 1901, 1911 census,i know that most of stephen pilchers brothers and sisters went to usa and canada
thanks again x
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Thanks for clearing up a few things. I know that you've bee working on this since at least last year and have been trying to follow all possible clues but not everything is online as you've already found.
"i should also point out that my g nans (kate) first daughter is called margaret clara,though she always used just the clara, so she could have been named after her nan."
Surely you know by now that Stephen Pilcher's sister was Margaret Clara (born 1877 Waterford) and it's more likely that Margaret Clara was named for her aunt.
Just in case you haven't found it here's a birth and possible death for Ernest Pilcher (1911 not 1930s)-
Birth: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FBL4-FPV
Death: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FRJF-W2S
I think I might have found a possible marriage for Kate and Stephen but want to check a few more details before posting anymore.
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hi again just a quick one,before work,
i was just wondering why you think that the ladysbridge ballymacoda one is nt my g nan,its handwritten on the 1901 census that she was born there and like i said its the only birth for a catherine cunningham for a 20 year period,and i also know for definite that she had 2 sisters,i also know that she was brought up on a farm and there are a couple of patrick cunninghams who are farmers round there
also i ve put stephen pilcher in in a couple of sites and theres no results for a marrage anywhere,but i did find one for 1897 portsea island hampshire,i know he s burried there,its got alot of naval links,i was just wondering if he could have taken her there to marry,maybe because her parents would nt say yes,i ve been told you needed their permission under 21 which i think she would have been
i ll have to go now,thanks again x
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sep qtr 1897 Portsea marriage
Stephen Pilcher - the 3 possible wives are
Rose Marion Buchanan
Emma Rose M Budd
Mary Elizabeth Fogarty
NO Catherine ....so I do not think this is your Stephen Pilcher ?
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"i was just wondering why you think that the ladysbridge ballymacoda one is nt my g nan,its handwritten on the 1901 census that she was born there and like i said its the only birth for a catherine cunningham for a 20 year period,and i also know for definite that she had 2 sisters,i also know that she was brought up on a farm and there are a couple of patrick cunninghams who are farmers round there"
I didn't say that the baptismal record wasn't your great-grandmother but merely wanted to know how you came to that conclusion. However, not all church records survive and of those that dio not all are online. As well as that, it's very common for baptisms not to be recorded in a register (either gaps in the actual register or clergy forgetting to record each and every one).
Since there are several Patrick Cunningham's in that are you need to be very careful not to get confused and attach your Catherine to the wrong one.
There is a difference between facts and information that's been handed down in the family. Catherine may have grown up on farm and may have talked about 2 suisters but there could be lots of other details that were never mentioned.
Now, as to a possible marriage for Stephen Pilcher & Catherine Cunningham. I did the usual searches, as I'm sure you did earlier, in both Ireland and England, for the couple then with just bride's name or groom's name then first name only, etc. but couldn't get a match with both names. I thought I might have found the record but it turned out not to be the couple.
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hi again,been doing the rounds again and getting nowhere as usual,
1/ im not pinning my hopes on any of the patricks being kates dad because i know of nothing i can link them by,thats why i m stuck,the same with her mother margaret........ i ve seen quite a few birth records from that area for patricks and margarets,but i would never know which ones were right :(
2/ a bit of family history that may be of interest ......, my mum and nan told me of 2 boy cousins kate cunningham had who both drowned together in a rowing boat,well there s a grave in the cemetery on the hill,ballymacoda for 2 brothers william 17 and john 18 cunningham,who both drowned together 28/08/1887,errected by their father martin cunningham from monagoul
again to me i would think whats the likelyhood of 2 brothers surname cunningham drowning together in a small place like ballymacoda and from the right time frame
3/ also one last thing,stephen pilcher was at sea untill 1896,he was then stationed at knockadoon which is only a couple of miles away from ballymacoda,
also one very last thing,the 2 sponsors names on the catherine cunningham baptism record were michael ahern and margaret cunningham,it also says patrick was from clonakilty
well thats all for now its 4.30 am,i never learn,thanks as always x