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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cornwall => Topic started by: gralorn on Tuesday 16 September 14 17:30 BST (UK)
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It appears that I do not have a consistency in my Family Tree after many years of researching. The family is that of LANGMAID and my last factual entry is that of Richard Langmaid born 1818, who married twice Jane Anne Lander in 1857 and Elizabeth Pearce in 1849. I however show his father as John Langmaid born 1795 - 1821 married to Mary Broad. The consistency error is that the children Margaretta 1823, Selina 1832, Francis 1829 and Matilda 1835 were all born after he died. So this particular John Langmaid could not be Richards father or Mother. Any help would be most appreciated.
Graham
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You haven't given his birthplace
and I can't see an 1849 marriage on freebmd to Elizabeth Pearce
1851 shows b 1821 Lanreath as does 1861
What name is shown for his father on his marriage certs
and I can't see an 1849 marriage on freebmd to Elizabeth Pearce
Indexed as Longmaid and Pearse :'(
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1851 has a 1yr old son John but he is not on the 1861 and no death between censuses
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the 1849 marriage is on the opc database shows father as John, a carpenter
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=marriages&id=1128572
abode given for family on baptisms of Selina & Martha Jane appears to be Boggamill
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From Cornwall opc site
Richard Langmaid
28th Oct 1818 in Lanreath
Father John occ-Carpenter
Mother Mary -
Marriage to Elizabeth also on there confirming Father as John-occ carpenter
Welsh Lady
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John still very much alive in 1841 - with wife Mary, plus 4 daughters in Lanreath. Ref.HO10-153-7-5-2. (Note that Richard 20 is with a Henry 15, elsewhere in Lanreath - presumably brother).
Annette
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he's on the 1851 as well in Lanreath HO107/1903 folio 314 pg 18 3 daughters still at home.
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Matilda's baptism on 14 June 1835 gives parents John and Mary..
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....as does Selina's on 30 Jan 1833, and Francis' on 21 April. There's a burial of Francis on 6 May 1829, aged 5 weeks, abode Boggamill.
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So am I correct then in thinking that Richard Langmaids mother and father were John Langmaid (Carpenter) and Mary Weymouth Broad and that he was one of six children, three girls, Margaretta, Selina and Matilda and three sons Richard, Francis and Henry. Also that John Langmaid died well after 1821 at the age of 36 as I have recorded on the family history. Is there a date of which John his father did die anywhere?
Your assistance has been most appreciated especially as the error is not such a disaster as it first seemed'
Thank you
Graham
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There's a John Langmaid death in 1865 (Sept quarter) in Liskeard registration district (would that cover Lanreath?). No age given though.
Modified to add... possible burial to match in Lansallos parish church on 12 Aug 1865, John Langmaid, aged 71 (estimated birth 1794).
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Well, well. Looks like wife Mary died between 1861 and 1871 because in 1871 John 75 Carpenter b.Lansallo is with a new wife Rebecca 42 and has a 6yr old son named Frank. They are living in St. Veep now - ref. RG10 - 2245 - 67 - 7.
John died Sept.qtr.1877 as LONGMAID.
Annette
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Looks like Mary died - also as a Longmaid - in Dec.1858 Liskeard. John remarried a Rebecca Best in Mar.qtr.1860. On 1861 census he's knocked some years off his age and says born St. Veep but in 1871 - as already detailed - back to birthplace of Lansallos.
By 1881 Rebecca living alone (Carpenters widow). Son Frank d.1874.
Annette
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thought some of this was ringing bells!
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=616021.0
::)
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There's a baptism for a John Longmaid in Lansallos in 1794, parents John and Rebecca..
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the info is on the post I just posted a link to.
;)
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I feel sure that in my own mind that the John Langmaid who was buried at Lansallos Parish Church on the 12 Aug 1865 aged 71 was the father of Richard Langmaid who was born on the 28 Oct 1818 and married twice to Elizabeth Pearce in 1849 and Jane Anne Lander in 1857. I also feel that the father John Langmaid was married to Mary Wymouth Broad and they had seven children, Richard 1818, Ann 1821, Margaretta 1823, Francis 1824, Selina 1832, Matilda 1835, and Harriett dob: NK. I also feel that Rebecca Best is part of the 'Rich' family and not my side of the Langmaids. This being well I know have to confirm the father and mother of John Langmaid born approx 1794. It'll hopefully sort out this time around.
Regards and many, many thanks for the help up to now, so much appreciated.
Graham the Poor!
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I think you are wrong re the 1865 death for John the carpenter, father of Richard. John, the carpenter was still alive in 1871 with much younger wife. Only one John born 1790's was a carpenter and he was the father of Richard. The other John born similar time/place was an Ag.lab married to a Susannah and I think it was him who died in 1865.
Annette
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Have just double checked on 1871 Census and no trace of either John (previously Farmer but in 1861 just Ag.Lab.) or Susannah i.e. he is the one d. Sept.1865 and she is the Susanna d.Mar.1871.
John Langmaid (the carpenter, Richards father, who remarried in 1860 and thereafter lived in St. Veep) was bur.10/7/1877 St Veep.
I think the major problem here is that we have 2 John Langmaid's (one a carpenter and the other Farmer/Ag.Lab) who both say they were bc.1795 in Lansallos but parish records only show a baptism for one.
Annette
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Thanks for that Annette, so who was the younger wife and when did John pass away? I also show in my Family History that John the Carpenter, father of Richards father was also a John and married to a Mary Thomas. They married at St Veep Parish Church on the 25 May 1791. She was born in 1764 and died in 1839. I show one son John who married Mary Wymouth Broad on the 7 May 1818, the same year that their son Richard was born. I know nothing about John marrying a younger wife. So still confused, but all ears as they say!
Regards
Graham the confused
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the info about John's second marriage is on your earlier post. The advice was to buy the cert for this marriage to confirm name & occupation for his father. Did you get the cert?
::)
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Hi,
My earlier post refers to Richards second marriage, I have never had John his father married twice. No I did not get a marriage certificate. I was hopeful that I had solved the mix up with their being the two very alike families in the same region. Too many Johns is the problem!
Regards
Graham
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have a look at rely 15 on that post, Trish gives the 1861 & 1871 census entries for John & the marriage ref.
Perhaps worth a re-read?
;)
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Hi Gralorn
I have an interest in Langmaids/Longmeads/other variations. I made contact with the Polperro FHS some time ago and got lots of info from them - which helped me a great deal. I checked and confirmed the branch that interested me and chased up some wills and documents to confirm relationships.
So going backwards to go forwards with your John - bear with me here...
Henry Langmaid/Langmead (b 12 Feb 1733, d. 23 May 1789) married Elizabeth Soby. In his will dated 1 April 1789 he mentions his sons & daughters by name, including:
"Also I will and direct that my son John Langmaid shall have my leasehold Tenement called Trenewan after the end of the said seven years during the Remainder of the term. I now hold in the same he paying to my executors such sum of money, as the said Estate or Tenement shall be appraised in above the Value of Two Hundred Pounds. The said estates to be appraised and valued by two or more proper judges to be chosen for that purpose by the Joint Consent of all my trustees and in case Either of my said Sons Henry and John shall offer to make Sale or Mortgage either of my said Tenemants of Bake or Trenewan during the term..."
So ...... "Trenewan" comes up here in relation to a John Langmaid
This might give you clues to help sort out John, carpenter, versus John, farmer/labourer??
If you want me to email you the transcript I did of Henry's will, pm me.
cocksie
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This sure is very confusing.
In simplistic form the Langmaid's at Trenewan, Lansallos seem to be the farmers.
We know that John Langmaid, carpenter, lived at Bogga Mill (or similar) when children baptised.
I think I would try to trace apprenticeship records for John which may reveal more details about him.
Burials on FreeReg show 3 John Langmaid's of Trenewan (census shows a lot of people lived at Trenewan besides Langmaid's) who were buried at Lansallos:
John bc.1756 bur.9/10/1822
John bc.1768 bur.27/4/1838
John bc.1795 bur.13/8/1865 (this is the one married to Susanna)
In the 1790's there were 3 John's baptising children at Lansallos:
1. John married to Cecilia Scott 1/8/1791 - William 1794, Francis 1796 and Thomas 1798. This John was a mariner.
2. John (carpenter) married to Mary (Mary Thomas 25/5/1791 St. Veep?) who had Henry 1798, William 1800, Peggy 1804 and Ann 1806. However - a John and Mary had 2 children baptised at Lanteglas by Fowey - Elizabeth Soby bp.21/3/1793 and John bp.25/5/1795. From Elizabeth's second Christian name one would think that father John was the son of the Henry married to Elizabeth Soby (from will details posted by cocksie)
BUT
3. John married to Rebecca Sweet 18/4/1787 Maker had at least 5 children baptised at Lansallos 1791 to 1806 which included a John bp.14/7/1794. This family seemed to have been farmers if I'm reading things right but who was the father of John senior if, as records suggest, the John married to Mary Thomas was the son of Henry Langmaid and Elizabeth Soby?
It sure is a poser.
Annette
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there's an online catalogue for the Record Office in Truro
http://crocat.cornwall.gov.uk/DServe/searchpage.htm
Can't see any apprenticeship records for John La/ongmaid. Lots of entries for Trenewan, leases to the Langmaid family.Also some wills that might help sort out who is who
John Longmaid yeoman of Lansallos 1823 ref AP/L/2204
Rebecca Longmaid Lansallos 1836 AP/L/2354
John Langmaid Fisherman Lansallos 1804 AP/L/2051
Mary Langmaid Lansallos 1839 AP/L/2378
But the first step would be the marriage cert from 1860 to see what details John gave for his father
John Langmaid march qtr 1860 Liskeard vol 5c pg 129 with Rebecca Best on the same page.
John's second wife Rebecca died 15 Jan 1894 & was buried in St Stephen in Brannel Cemetery 18 Jan aged 66, noted as widow of John Langmaid, carpenter
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=burials&id=2468875
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Its certainly getting confusing again, my Family Tree at present starts with a JOHN Langmaid born 1694 who died in 1770, he married Joan Lyne, marriage date not known and they had a son Henry Langmaid born 1733, he married Elizabeth Soby in 1759 and died in 1789. (He was supposedly a Yeoman Farmer) Elizabeth died in 1800, They had six children, JOHN who marries Mary Thomas in 1791 at St Veep, Thomas, Henry,Elizabeth, Catherine and Peggy. JOHN and Mary Thomas have five children, a son JOHN who is married to Mary Wymouth Broad, plus Mary Ann, Elizabeth, Henry and Catherine. JOHN & Mary Broad have seven children, a son Richard who marries Elizabeth Pearce, Ann,Magaretta, Francis, Selina, Matilda,and Harriet. Then we have Richard and Elizabeth, Elizabeth dies in childbirth having William who eventually marries Mary Hazel, other children are Mary Ellen, Fanny and Harry. The rest of the tree is factual. I have the wills already. Its that Trewanan Farm that seems to confuse and the wills do not speak of the children I have either.
Grey Haired Graham
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I also have some information from Polperro:
1821 - Richard and family at Highway, Married to Jane
1857 - Richard Carpenter of Trenwan, married Jane Anne Lander, born St Veep, 24th Dec at Liskeard Registry Office
1871 - Richard on census aged 50, carpenter born Lanreath, living at Highway Hamlet with wife Jane 42 and children Mary Ellen 7, Fanny 5, Harry 1, all born LbyF, living in Kayes Cottage
Have visited Highway, St Veep Parish Church and the Parish Church at Lansallos which has a lot of Langmaid graves. I have been trying, just trying to clarify it all.
Graham
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Gralorn
Over the years I've collected some langmaid/langmead data - some of which I haven't been able to place/trace/connect. I'll re-read it all this weekend in conjunction with info on this post and see if I have any clues to help sort out/clarify the Richards and Johns.
My interest has been with daughters of Henry - Peggy and Catherine (both of which proved traceable and connectable).
Weirdly (just did a quick check) Cornwall online parish website has marriage of John langmaid to ELIZABETH Wymouth Broad.
Cocksie
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Gralorn
Had a spare hour and may have hit a clue to help work out these Johns.
"In The name of God, Amen
I, Henry Langmaid of Bake in the Parish of Pelynt in the County of Cornwall do hereby make and declare this to be my last Will and Testament in manner and from hereafter mentioned that is to say.
First I give and bequeath to my niece Elizabeth Lee, wife of Thomas Lee the sum of Fifty Pounds. I give and bequeath to my Nephew John Langmaid, Carpenter the sum of Fifteen Pounds and my bed. I give and bequeath to my Nephew William Langmaid the sum of Five Pounds. I give and bequeath to my Nephew Richard Bate, Son of Richard and Elizabeth Bate the sum of Forty Pounds, I give and bequeath to my Niece Ann Bate daughter of Richard and Elizabeth Bate the sum of Thirty Pounds. I also give and bequeath to my Sister Elizabeth Geake the sum of Five Pounds per year to be paid by my executors hereafter named out of my estate called Bake in the Parish of Pelynt during her natural life. All the rest residue and remainder of my goods, chattels and effects, bonds, notes, book deposits whatsoever and wherever found I give and bequeath to my two grandchildren William and Elizabeth Northcote, Son and Daughter of William and Ann Northcote, share and share alike. I nominate and appoint to be my whole and soul executor of this my Last Will and Testament hereby revoking all former wills by me heretofore made declaring this to be my only true Last Will and Testament.
In witness whereof I set my hand and seal this Ninth Day of February in the year of Our Lord, One Thousand, Eight Hundred and Thirty Seven.
Henry Langmaid
Signed sealed published and declared by the witness named testator as and for his Last Will and Testament in the presence of us who in his presence and at his request and in the presence of each other have subscribed our names as witnessed hereto.
Jonathan Hill
Charles Lamb
Wm Couch"
The only Henry I have who "works" with all the information in this will is Henry Langmaid b. 1766, son of Henry Langmaid & Elizabeth Soby.
Henry & Elizabeth had these children baptised at Lansallos:
Elizabeth Langmaid b. 1764, married Richard Geake 1790, d 1844
John Langaid b. 1764 (and logically died before 1768)
Henry Langmaid b. 1766, married Jane Bate 1790, d 1837. Daughter Ann Langmaid b. 1792 who married a William Northcote 1815
John Langmaid b. 1768 (who possibly married Mary Thomas in 1791), d 1838
Peggy Langmaid/mead b. 1770, married Thomas Geak 1793, d. 1845
Thomas Langmaid b 1775, d 1829. (I don't know if he married)
Catherine Herring Lagmaid b 1778, married Edmund Webb, d. 1856
So there is a John Langmaid, who is a carpenter in 1837, and is referred to as a nephew of Henry Langmaid b. 1766. I may be way off base and in completely the wrong timeframe .........
cocksie
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To be really honest I am going to have to read all through the information that I have and attempt to sort it out once and for all. I have a copy of that will in my Langmaid file along with some others, we as a family always found it to be quite funny in that he gives his 'bed'. Although being a carpenter its probably a work of art. Let me read through all that I have write it all down again and see what I come up with. As they say we are so near, yet so far. Its then Johns that are causing the hic up. Thanks for what you did though it is much appreciated. Right clear the table, I need some space!!
Regards
Graham
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Think I have it all worked out now, goes something like this:
John Langmaid b:1694 d:1770 & Joan Lyne > Henry Langmaid b:1733 d: 1789 & Elizabeth Soby > John Langmaid b:1768 d:1838 & Mary Thomas > John Langmaid b:1795 D: 1877 & Mary Wymouth Broad & Rebecca Best > Richard Langmaid b:1818 & Elizabeth Pearce & Jane Anne Lander > William Langmaid b: 1858 d: Jan 1911 at sea & Mary Hazell.
So it all fits nicely, only thing that I do not have is when Richard Langmaid died. I now wonder about Mary Wymouth Broads family and would love to know who her syblings were as I have just watched a True Story DVD called 'Mary Bryant' about a young girl transported to Australia from Fowey for stealing, a minor offence, but her maiden name was Broad ! Was she any relation to the Mary in the family tree? Not usual for a family to have two Mary's, but one never knows. Any information as usual would be most appreciated.
Graham
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Having read all through the bits and pieces, including Jennie's e-mails from a few years ago I believe that I have it clear in my mind. Almost as my reply above with the exception of the very start. I am now of the opinion that is Thomas Langmaid that should be the start(Root Person) and not Henry! I have Thomas married to Joan Lyne Collings, whom he married on 25 June 1715 and she died 21 September 1777 in Lanivet, Cornwall. I also have a scrap of paper obtained from a lady in Fowey that states that Thomas's parents were Julian Langmaid and Joan Langmaid (Nee Wallis). Is there any way that this may be looked up and confirmed? My only other query is when did John Langmaid born 25 October 1764 actually die and where.
What a read and mix up this family line has been. Thank you sincerely for all your time and assistance to date.
Graham