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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Breconshire => Topic started by: cp on Saturday 20 September 14 22:32 BST (UK)
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This is a follow on from a previous thread about my great uncle
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=698053.0
I am trying to find a birth record for his father, my Great Grandfather John Phillips born in Llangorse, nr Talgarth Wales. I have been to the church in Llangorse a few years ago and could not find his birth.
I have fond him on the following census returns show his age
1851 aged 11
1871 aged 35 confirmed
1881 aged 45 confirmed
1891 aged 55 confirmed
1901 aged 64 confirmed
1911 aged 77 confirmed
I have his death cert showing his death at 11th Nov 1919 aged 83 which is confirmed on his will which shows his son (my grandfather) Edwin Albert Phillips as the executor.
I also found a grave stone in Talgarth cemetry showing his wife Margaret Phillips (18.2.1915) which is correct as I have her death cert but the death date shown for him says 10th Nov 1919 aged 86!
I have not been able to find their marriage at all either.
I believe his father was William Phillips and mother is Amelia Pugh (can't remember at the moment where I got that info from) and I have their marriage cert showing they married in Talgarth church in 1839.
Thanks for reading
CP
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Hi
Could this be your John and Margaret's Marriage details.
You would need one of their children's birth cert. to confirm it.
John Phillips Jun qtr 1864 Brecknock Breconshire
ref 11b 153
Margaret Davies
William Evans
John Phillips
Mary Price
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Hi Genechaser and thanks for looking for me. I am sorry however I should have said Margaret was Margaret Williams as I have two of their children's birth certificates.
CP
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Hi cp
John, aged 2, is living with William and Amelia at Penllanafel, Llangorse in the 1841 census.
There is an entry in the parish registers for the baptism (April 27th 1850) of Thomas, to William and Amelia Phillips - William is a farmer living at Penllanafel. There is the entry for a further child on 8th October 1853 (Robert) to the same named parents, but the name of their residence is now Cwm.
Thomas Phillips (of Penllanafel) is buried aged 3 weeks on May 19th 1850.
Amelia Phillips (of Cwm Llangorse) is buried 8th October 1853 aged 35 years
MarMnkly :)
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As found on the other thread marriage of William and Amelia
William Phillips married Amelia Pugh 27 Jul 1839 Talgarth, Brecknockshire, Wales
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Also 1851 census
HO107; Piece: 2489; Folio: 718; Page: 18. Langorse
William Phillips 34 Farmer 79 acres Llangorse, Breconshire
Amelia Phillips 31 Llanelly, Breconshire
John Phillips 11 Llangorse, Breconshire,
William Phillips 8 Llangorse, Breconshire,
Lydia Phillips 4 Llangorse, Breconshire,
Elizabeth Jones 14 niece house servant Talgarth
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Thanks Groom for transfering the info from the other thread.
Hi MarMnkly, you do indeed appear to have found the correct family (thank you) as I have the marriage cert for William & Amelia Phillips which shows his address as Penllanafal and hers as Cwm Forest. I will have to see if I have got access to the parish registers anywhere, where do you get them from?
The marriage cert also show William's father as Robert so it makes sense that they would call one of the son's Robert.
I also have the death cert for Amelia and it shows that she died 5th Oct 1853 at Cwn, Llangorse.
We are getting closer but still no record of John's birth and it would be nice to find the family on the 1861 census to find Robert with his dad William.
CP
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It is possible that John's birth wasn't registered as although registration was introduced in 1837, it did not become compulsory until 1875 with the Births and Deaths Registration Act. If this is the case with John, the only record of his birth would be a baptism.
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I fear you are right Groom that is why I was so disappointed to not finf it when I visited the church in Llangorse :(
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Hi cp
I'm wondering if this is some of the family in 1861, given that the address is Cwm Forest, Talgarth RG9; Piece: 4223; Folio: 80
Thomas Pugh, 55, head, farmer of 55 acres
Margaret Pugh, 58, farmers wife
Thomas Pugh, 24, unmarried son
Mary Pugh 20, unmarried daughter
William Pugh, 17, unmarried son
John Pugh 14, unmarried son
Lydia Pugh 88, mother ??
Mary James, 60, servant
John Phillips, 21, servant born Llangorse
William Phillips, 18, servant born Llangorse
Lydia Phillips, 15, servant, born Llangorse
John Worthington, 15, carter.
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Oh you star, yes that is them because Amelia's maiden name was Pugh and her father was called Thomas.
It would therefore appear that after Amelia died three of the children John, William and Lydia were taken in by her parents. It would be interesting to see what happened to William senior. I will search other census returns and death records.
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Surely that Thomas Pugh and Margaret Pugh can't have been Amelia' parents, they aren't old enough as if she'd lived, Amelia would have been 41 in 1861, they must be her brother and sister in law. Her mother would be the Lydia Pugh wouldn't she?
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Good point well made Groom ;) I would have noticed when I transferred the info ...honest ;)
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Here's Lydia in 1851 with her husband
HO107; Piece: 2491; Folio: 8; Page: 9
Talgarth
Thomas Pugh 85. Lanelien
Lydia Pugh. 78. Lanthrew
James Davies 14. Grandson. Talgarth
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Their possible marriage
Thomas Pugh
15 Jul 1806
Talgarth, Brecknockshire, Wales
Spouse's Name: Lydia Davies
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Hi cp
not sure if this is the same Robert Phillips (baptised in 1853) described earlier, but there is a Robert Phillips aged 8, born Llangorse who is boarding in a house (looks like Pencaerach, Cwmdu) in 1861 with:
John Price, 35, head born Glasbury
Ann Price, 34, wife born Cwmddu
Mary A Price, 10, daughter born Cwmddu
Margaret Price, 7 daughter born Cwmddu
RG9; Piece: 4215; Folio: 6; Page: 6
MarMnkly
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Thanks, I will keep a note of the marriage and the census and see if they fit anything else.
John's baptisim, birth and marriage are very elusive aren't they? Everything else is slotting in really well.
If I could find the marriage cert at least I could confirm his dad was William but I guess if I have no birth cert I will never be sure about his parents being William Phillips and Amelia Pugh. Would you agree with that?
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Hi cp
just spent a bit more time looking through the parish baptisms for Llangorse on FindMyPast. Unfortunately I haven't found John's baptism, but have found another baptism for a Phillips living at Penllanafel, as follows:
December 12th 1833
Eliza, illegitimate daughter of Mary Phillips of Penllanafel.
Could Mary possibly be a sister to William Phillips (husband of Amelia)?
MarMnkly :)
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Thanks for spending time on this for me.
Interesting development, another thing to follow up ;)