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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: Purple Badger on Sunday 21 September 14 19:27 BST (UK)
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Evening all,
Can anybody locate a marriage in Ireland between Bernard (Barney) Davie/Davey/Davy and Agnes McMullen/McMullan?
The first child that I have located for them, John, was born in Ireland c1836 so the marriage would be before then.
Unfortunately I can not give an guidance on where as I am working from Scottish and English Census records, which just say Ireland!
Cheers :)
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Hi There
I can see a Patrick Davey born to a Bernard Davey and ANNE McMullen in 1843 in County Down
Also an Elizabeth Davey born to a Bernard Davey and ANNE McMullen in 1845 in County Down
Early Days though !
Tara
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These two baptisms took place in Ballynahinch Roman Catholic Church.
Their TRANSCRIPTIONS are on the pay per view site rootsireland.
Tara
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Possible Connections :-\
http://boards.ancestry.com/localities.britisles.ireland.dow.general/1252.1464.2546/mb.ashx
Tara
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There is a marriage in Loughlinisland of
Bernard DAVY of Tannaghmore (F) John
to
M McMULLAN of Drummanakelly (F) Hugh (full first name not shown)
on
July 22nd 1832
in
Loughlinisland Roman Catholic Church
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Hi MyLuck
Would that be classed as the same rough 'area' for the baptisms ?
Tara
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Bernard's father being called John is fab as this would indicate that John b 1836 was the first born son.
There is a John Davey in Ardilea Loughinisland - could be Bernard's father !
http://www.failteromhat.com/griffiths/down/loughinisland.htm
Tara
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There is a Hugh McMullen on the same GV in Annadorn.
Drummanakelly is not showing up on Google but I don't know County Down well enough to know if Annadorn is a possibility for the same area !
Tara
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I just checked 'the core' and yes DRUMANAKELLY is in Loughinisland so looks like we are working with the right people in the right area.
Tara
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This might be of some use with regards to Daveys in County Down.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rosdavies/SURNAMES/D/Davy.htm
Tara
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McMullen & Variants Here !
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rosdavies/SURNAMES/Mc/McMullenAJ.htm
Tara
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A Hugh McMullen of Loughinisland organised a meeting of 10 community leaders for Thomas Russell's uprising in 1803
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Russell_%28rebel%29
It would be nice to prove a link ;D
Tara
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I wonder might these Davey's be related ?
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/NIR-DOWN/2007-02/1171753658
Tara
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Some interesting bits here on people whom have researched in Loughinisland.
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/NIR-DOWN/2009-03/1237084377
Tara
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Hi All,
Thank you for helping me with this. I really appreciate it particularly as I am totally baffled ???
I am pretty certain the wife's maiden name is McMullen/McMullan as I have located her on a census return with her brother John McMullen b1835 Ireland, living with her and her family. I have also found some baptism records for the children born in Scotland and England with the maiden name of McMullen on it.
I have had a look on Rootsireland and I can only find one wedding between a Bernard Davy/Davey/Davie and any mcmullen/mcmullan and that is the wedding that myluck very kindly posted. The date fits relatively well but the M for the Wife's surname is stumping me. I have seen her recorded as Agnes and Nancy but nothing with an M. Have you actually seen the record or could this be a transcription error?
Anne and Agnes can interchangeable and I do have a Patrick and an Elizabeth as their children but the dates aren't great so not sure if the baptisms fit or not. I do know from other Scotland/England baptisms that they are Catholic.
From census records I believe their children are:
John Davey c1836 Ireland
Catherine Davey c1838 Ireland
Hugh Davey c1843 Ireland
Mary Davey c1843 Ireland
Patrick Davey c1845 Ireland
Then they appear to have moved to Scotland (looks like Annan, Dumfries-hire)
Elizabeth Davey c1850 Scotland
Eleanor Davey c1855 Scotland
Barney (Bernard) Davey c1856 Scotland
William Davey c1857 Scotland
George Davey c1858 Scotland
By 1865 they appear to be in Co Durham.
Forgiven my ignorance but how does the taking of a religious name work? Could this be part of the confusion over Agnes/Nancy/Anne?/M?
Thanks :)
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A 2 year difference between a baptism date and and age given on a later census is NOTHING.
I have given you a Patrick Davey baptised 1843 to Bernard Davey and Anne Mc Mullen and you have a later census given his birth as 1845.
HA trust me, I'd be hard pushed to say this is NOT one and the same family.
Near on 200 years ago people were not as particular about birthdays as there are these days, in fact they were rarely even known let alone celebrated.
Also, if you read the articles that I sent to you re people whom have been researching in the Louginisland areas (some including the Davey surname), they have all noted how the priest was random as to what he wrote down. Sometimes mother's names were not included at all. An unusual practice but would make me certain the the marriage that MyLuck gave you is the marriage that you are looking for !
Tara
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. . .
Also Irish people were VERY traditional in their naming practices at the time.
Given that Bernard named his first son John (and the marriage MyLuck gave you said that John's father was called John) would be another step in the right direction.
Given that Bernard named his second son Hugh and Anne's father's name was Hugh on the marriage certificate would SURELY make you see that this is the correct family in Loughinisland County Down ;D
Tara
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Anne would have been her baptismal name.
Agnes would have been her pet name / nickname.
Tara
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Please don't get hung up on the M.
When working with records that are nearly 200 years old you have been VERY lucky to have found what I am pretty sure is your family records.
Mistranscriptions, basic errors, bad handwriting, illegible records etc etc etc etc could all account for what COULD look like an M but should be an A.
Tara
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Thank you Tara you are an absolute star. That you so much for all the time and effort you have put into this.
I thought it was a bit of a coincidence that the father's name's John and Hugh were the names of the first two boys but didn't know enough about Irish naming convention. Thank you for offering me the reassurance I needed. :)
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Well it was the marriage that Myluck found that put all of the pieces together ;D
I'd be pretty sure that the baptisms of Bernard's other children are there too but were most likely mistranscribed somehow.
If you use the surname variations on rootsireland you will see the HUGE variations of the ways that the surname McMullen was written down by various priests or their clerks.
http://ifhf.rootsireland.ie/surnames.php?letter=MCMU
Tara
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Oh Also
Bernard & Brian / Bryan were interchangeable in parts of Ireland so do your research with all three variants.
Tara
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There was a John Davey baptised in Loughinisland in 1833 to a Bernard Davey - I can't get a mother's name from the free index.
It MIGHT be wort a 4 euro gamble ;D
Tara
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oooh sounds interesting ... is this on rootsireland?
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Yup,
I am just playing around with the free index but there are WAY too many variants of McMullen to try them all.
That's even if her name was recorded at all as it's hit and miss with that church ;D
Tara
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Hi Tara,
I bought a subscription to Roots Ireland to do a bit of digging and I am even more baffled. I though i would try to confirm some baptisms of Bernard and Agnes/Anne children like you suggested. English Census suggested they had a son Hugh (named after Agne's Father) c1843. There are only 3 in a 5 year range on roots Ireland and one looked really promising in terms of location which was BALLYNAHINCH Co, Down. Fathers surname correct (Davy), mother's maiden name correct (Mcmullan) Mother first name Anne, so Agnes/Anne is a suitable variant. However the fathers first name was noted as Hugh not Bernard!!!
Are the original church records on-line anywhere in order for me to see if this is a transcription error...seems to close not to be?
:)
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Hi There
So, what correct baptisms have you gotten from the site so far ?
Tara
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I do remember reading on one of the links that I sent you that the Ballynahinch records were 'random'.
There seems to have been a LOT of abbreviations used, lack of mother's Christian names used and the the standard illegible handwriting or general age decay of the records.
The are WAY too many other items on that record for it NOT to be the Hugh that you are looking for :
Right Christian name of child, right birth year span, right mother's maiden name, right mother's christian name, right father's surname, right church.
ADD to this the fact that there is NO Hugh Davey / Anne (Agnes) McMullen in the records seems pretty conclusive to me that it should infact say BERNARD.
Tara
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Are you getting great leads with the Godparent's names ?
;D ;D ;D
Tara
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Hi Tara,
I think I have found the corresponding baptisms for the children I had on the census, albeit a few years out. Frustrating all but one of the baptisms for Bernard and Annes' children have the mother's name omitted all together.
I found some siblings for Bernard and Anne and had hope to find both of their mothers name to get a little further back but again blank! As for godparents found a far few Davys and McMullans (even the priest appears to be a Mcmullan!) along with loads of other names but not got far on piecing the generations together.
I only found one wedding in whole county down for Hugh McMullan (Anne's father) but was 1789 which appeared to be too early. And as I can't find the mothers name I can't double check. Equally John Davy is too common a name without a spouse name to check with.
There were baptisms listing Hugh McMullan as the father of various children in Co Down in the same period but some a the Roman Catholic Church and others at the Church of Ireland, is it safe to assume these are two different people?
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HUM
I would stick to the Roman Catholic church for now.
I KNOW people 'altered' their religion for various reasons, but all so far has this family in the RC church, so, for now I would stick with that churches records.
Again though, have you noted down all the Godparent's names ~ I think this is where you will get your best leads, as they will most likely be family members.
Ach, that church kept shocking bad records. You have been unlucky in that regard YET SUPER LUCKY to have gotten so far back with your tree.
Many envy your position ;D
Tara
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Post Error
Tara