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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: dathai on Monday 22 September 14 15:26 BST (UK)
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Always knew my in laws had a shop (ice cream) in Capel Street,but while browsing the Eloctoral Lists i came across the following in 27b Ormond Quay which was a surprise to me as no one in family knew of it.
http://www.dublinheritage.ie/burgesses/viewdoc.php?burgessid=59687&djvupath=imagefiles&orderby=002519&imagefile=BR.1909.0596.jpg
which seems to be on the premises of Patrick Cullen's Pub
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000079604/
Does anyone know of directories i could follow this up in to see how long he had this shop.
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Often Thoms Directories only gives the main business in a building, but you could get lucky.
My earliest Thoms is 1922
Ormond Quay Lower
25-27 .. Daniel Egan - art dealer etc
27 .. Michael Clerkin - tobacconist
Ormond Quay Upper
27 .. J & P McGrath .. wine & spirit merchants
edit: looks as if it's Upper .. Shannon and Warren still on the Quay in 1922
regards eadaoin
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Thanks Eadaoin
Sorry should have said that he moved to Augustine St by 1914 most of his children born Capel St my father in law born Augistine St 1914 there till 1939 when his daughters took over till the 1970s
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You probably have this Thoms directory 1910 Francis Pacelli showing at 125 Capel St under confectioner list.
annclare
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Hi Dathai
Shane Wilson not longer helps on this site BUT he does offer directory look ups on his OWN site !
http://www.swilson.info/
Tara
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Hi Anneclare and Tara
I knew he was at Capel St 1901/1911 census but seems to have had the other shop since circa 1909.
Tara thanks for the link i will see if i can login there with a request.
Dathai.
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Is this him too ?
http://www.europeana.eu/portal/record/2023822/gv4_nbl_lh_nbl_show5_php_id_011186.html?start=6&query=francis+pacelli&startPage=1&rows=24
Tara
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http://www.europeana.eu/portal/record/2023822/gv4_nbl_lh_nbl_show5_php_id_011799.html?start=12&query=francis+pacelli&startPage=1&rows=24
Tara
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http://www.europeana.eu/portal/record/2023822/gv4_nbl_lh_nbl_show5_php_id_011898.html?start=19&query=francis+pacelli&startPage=1&rows=24
Tara
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I wonder might the 'shop' on the quays have been more like a storage area.
Did you look at google maps to see if one address 'backs on' to the other.
I've seen this quite a bit on inner city address'.
Tara
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Thanks Tara i dont call you supersearcher for nothing,so now i have Strand St as well.
So though he moved to Augistine St he may have still kept his shops at the other addresses.
I wonder could you help me out with a little girl i found when the Civil index was on line a while back her name was Harriet Cleary born 26th Sep 1918 Rotunda Hosp to John Cleary a chauffer and a daughter of Francis's brother Joseph(died 1912)giving the address of 36 Augistine St as their address
which was Francis's address.this child may be illegitimate as i cant find a Cleary/Pacelli marriage but do know that this niece later married someone else but not as a widow.
Going back to Patrick Cullens census return for 1911 he has an assistant named John Cleary and was wondering did Francis niece work in his shop on Ormond Quay where she may have met him.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Inns_Quay/Ormond_Quay_Upper/15113/
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I don't know whether they would ALL have been shops.
Any time I have researched similar situations they have all turned out to be either shops / storage which backed onto each other (which depending on the postman had different address).
You know yourself, the back streets of Dublin are like warrens and I know Capel Street for sure is one of those areas. It's back alley ways run up a number of different streets.
Tara
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Re Cleary
Are the dates right ?
You have Harriett born 1918 yet say her father Joseph died 1912 ???
Tara
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Sorry Dathai
Can you retype up who Harriet's parent's are ~ I'm confused ??? ;D
Tara
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What was Harriet's Mum's Christian name ?
Tara
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Tara
sent you a P M.
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Hi dathai, Francis Pacelli, of Mariscovetere, Potenza is my mother's grandfather. We have some documents, I have not looked through them all as yet. I am interested in tracing Mary (Polly) Doyle as well as the Pacelli family. I know many of the Pacellis went to Canada but dont know how or why Francesco chose to go to Dublin, travel to Ontario where he remained for 9 or so years and then return to Dublin
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Most of the links on this thread are broken so it's hard to follow.
Is there a Joseph with a daughter Nora in your family dathai?
There is a court case in 1916.
It concerns a lease in Great Brunswick St, where Joseph Pacelli had an ice cream shop his executor is Francis Pacelli who had left the country in 1913.
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Will Calendar http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/reels/cwa/005014917/005014917_00616.pdf
Deceased SurnamePacelli
Deceased ForenameJoseph
Primary Beneficiary/ExecutorFrancis Pacelli
Date of Death24 Jan 1912
Deceased SurnamePacelli
Deceased ForenameMary (and Joe mentioned)
Primary Beneficiary/ExecutorJoseph Gough
Date of Death7 May 1916
County of DeathDublin
http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/reels/cwa/005014919/005014919_00702.pdf
County of DeathDublin
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Francis's parents died in Canada so i presume that is why he went there Vincent and MaryRose Savino were their names, i believe he could not travel or was perhaps reluctant to travel by ship because of the German's torpedoing of ships
There is no record of a marriage for Francis to Mary Doyle but one day while researching another topic i stumbled on Mary's sister Elizabeth's marriage at which Francis and Mary were the witnesses
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=769368.0
Sinann Joseph's first wife died 1898 i think off the top of my head and he took up with a Mary Gough/Goff they had no children Mary Gough ran the shop till her death 1915 ?
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The Pacelli family were documented as living in Edinburgh in No. 79 The Grassmarket in the 1891 census of Scotland.
In this census her father Vincenzo is described as a musician. Many of the Italian immigrants would make a living from this. They were farmers from the hills of Italy. Their new trades would be, musicians, stucco figure makers and then confectioners and barbers. This is the professions that they found worked best and how they would make their mark in their new world. Edinburgh had mass immigration at this time from both the Irish, the Italians and the Scots themselves with the influx from the North with the Highland Clearances. Paid work would be scarce and the clever ones found new trades and soon profited from them.
Maria had two elder brothers Francesco born in the year 1869 and Joseph who was born in 1873. These brothers moved to the Emerland Isle and made their way to Dublin.
There are today descendants of this family in Dublin. Francesco married an Irish girl Mary Doyle who was born in 1871. They had four children.....
http://www.quilietti.com/emilio-quilietti-2/rizza-connections/
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Have you got the court case already or do you want a copy?
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Thanks Hallmark i have been in touch with a girl from Australia who is a descendant of the Pacelli's of Grassmarket also another girl in America who is descended from Mary Antoinette Pacelli/Rizza
the descendants of the scottish Pacelli's are still there though i was told they have changed their name
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=648598.msg4951450#msg4951450
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http://www.dublincity.ie/image/libraries/116-pacellis
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Sorry Sinann missed your reply would love a copy of the courtcase thank you per my email
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Francis (Francesco) Pacelli born 30/09/1868 in Marsicovetere was my Great Grandfather. He Married Mary (Polly) Doyle and had 8 or 9 children together. He travelled to Canada with Mary (daughter) and lived there for several years, leaving Polly to look after the other children alone until he returned. I would be interested to make connections with any family in Canada/USA who may be able to piece together any more family history, and tell us what Francesco was doing in Canada.
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Hi
i was only able to find that they had 10 children including Francis jnr born Francis St 1914, there was an infant who died circa 1903 female buried in an unpurchased grave,Francis must have decided later to buy a grave in which are buried his brother Joseph 1912 ,his own daughter Christina age 22 1918 and a couple of infant grandchildren, this grave is located to the left as you enter from main gate and has a headstone,you would be better off inquiring at Museum desk for grave number as it is some considerable distance away from Francis's own grave.
I had been in hospital for a few weeks hence the late reply.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=768514.0
Dathai
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Most of the links on this thread are broken so it's hard to follow.
Is there a Joseph with a daughter Nora in your family dathai?
There is a court case in 1916.
It concerns a lease in Great Brunswick St, where Joseph Pacelli had an ice cream shop his executor is Francis Pacelli who had left the country in 1913.
This is definitely my family. Nora was my great grandmother theresa's sister. Theresa named her daughter Nora too after her sister.
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Hi Roisinn and welcome to RootsChat
I stumbled upon the Heather Gastro pub in Canada some years ago while googling the name Joseph Pacelli where he mentioned the Raspberry ripple and Nelson's head from the blown up pillar.
I emailed him and was eventually contacted by two lads here in Dublin i think one of them was from Westmanstown they sent me a photo by email of Joseph Pacelli and his wife, dissappeared on me must have deleted it by mistake.
Dathai
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Hi Dathai,
Yes, the Irish Heather is my brother Sean.
We are in Vancouver but will be in dublin in 2 weeks. The Canada connection stuck through the generations. Our Grandfather was the one with the nelson's statue. Sean still has a piece!
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Always knew my in laws had a shop (ice cream) in Capel Street,but while browsing the Eloctoral Lists i came across the following in 27b Ormond Quay which was a surprise to me as no one in family knew of it.
http://www.dublinheritage.ie/burgesses/viewdoc.php?burgessid=59687&djvupath=imagefiles&orderby=002519&imagefile=BR.1909.0596.jpg
which seems to be on the premises of Patrick Cullen's Pub
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000079604/
Hi
I “think” this is my great grandparents. My grandmother was Catherine Pacelli (DoB 1902) and she married a Henry Rankin (DoB 1906). My mother always told me her grandparents were the first to open an ice cream shop in Dublin. How true that is I don’t know.