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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Dumfriesshire => Topic started by: Maggie Speak on Friday 26 September 14 09:24 BST (UK)

Title: John Goldie b 1797 Tynron
Post by: Maggie Speak on Friday 26 September 14 09:24 BST (UK)
Hello all, I am trying to confirm the death of John Goldie b 1797 (parents Jame Goldie and Ann Gault) who possibly died in 1821. I've sighted a website which suggests the info came from a headstone in Dumfriesshire. The exact wording is   Name: John GOLDIE
Born: 25 SEP 1797      at: Tynron, Dumfries, Scotland FHL Film 1067971 
Married:                  at:   
Died: MAY 1821       at: Isle 
Could any kind person confirm where this headstone might be? I'm in Western Australia and therefore cannot check for myself. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks Maggie


Title: Re: John Goldie b 1797 Tynron
Post by: Br1gau on Friday 03 October 14 23:55 BST (UK)
Hello Maggie,

I see there are many variations of John Goldie’s life on the internet!  Most people seem to go for the 1881 London death, has this been confirmed in any way?

Had a look at the Dumfries cemeteries but he’s not there: http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~scottish/D-GInscriptions.html
Although headstone photographs are available online for other areas of Scotland, I don't know of any for Dumfriesshire, perhaps someone else may be able to comment.  You may find some useful links to local resources at the beginning of the Dumfriesshire board.

I can also see your reference to the 1821 death at:
http://i-83-67-41-189.freedom2surf.net/fam46374.htm
Perhaps if you e-mail the site owner directly he could clear up the mystery.

brigau
Title: Re: John Goldie b 1797 Tynron
Post by: Maggie Speak on Saturday 04 October 14 01:46 BST (UK)
Hello Brigau,

I'm not convinced the death in 1881 is correct for the John Goldie born Tynron 1797. I believe this record to belong to an upholsterer who lived with his daughters Martha and Mary and sister Magdalene. Certainly the census records would suggest this. I've pretty much exhausted all the other possible deaths recorded as coming from other Goldie families.

"My" John Goldie married Sarah Ann Peart in 1820 in St Dunstans Middlesex and baptised 2 sons John Henry and Thomas Joseph in 1824 in Shadwell Middlesex. He was recorded as a Mariner at the time. I have a record of a Sarah Ann Goldie (widow) marrying a John Smith in Shadwell in 1826 which might suggest John Goldie died around 1824/25.

I will email the website owner who records his death as 1821 again and see if he can give me more information and will post back here. It would be lovely to clear this up once and for all  ;D

Cheers
Maggie
Title: Re: John Goldie b 1797 Tynron
Post by: Darlene1937 on Wednesday 08 August 18 04:19 BST (UK)
Hello Maggie, re Thomas Joseph Goldie & Ann Moran, they were my maternal grandmothers parents.  My information on his father was that he died June 1881 in London, this info comes from the family tree of a person called Joyce ??? sorry can't be of much help, I am located in Victoria, hope you have success in finding more information,   kind regards Darlene
Title: Re: John Goldie b 1797 Tynron
Post by: Maggie Speak on Wednesday 08 August 18 05:17 BST (UK)
Hello Darlene,

thanks for your reply. Thomas Goldie and Ann Moran are the 3rd great grandparents of my husband. We are in Western Australia. I am not convinced that Thomas's father died in 1881 as his will, backed up by the census suggests that he was an upholsterer, not a mariner as he was listed when he married Sarah Ann Peart. Thomas was also a mariner before settling in Victoria.

I will keep searching for a connection back to the Goldies of Tynron as this is the only puzzle piece ;D I'm yet able to verify. It all hinges on Thomas's father. ;D
Title: Re: John Goldie b 1797 Tynron
Post by: Darlene1937 on Thursday 09 August 18 06:19 BST (UK)
Hello Maggie, was wondering if you are maggie1912 from ancestry as I recently sent an email on Thomas Goldie ?? family history is very interesting ...kind regards Darlene
Title: Re: John Goldie b 1797 Tynron
Post by: Maggie Speak on Thursday 09 August 18 08:30 BST (UK)
Hi Darlene,
yes that's me, but I've not received any Ancestry messages from you... I have a public tree on that website, but also a separate private tree which has all the records on it that validate my research findings. Are you looking for a particular record? I'm happy to share if I have it  :)
Title: Re: John Goldie b 1797 Tynron
Post by: BushInn1746 on Thursday 09 August 18 12:30 BST (UK)
Hello all, I am trying to confirm the death of John Goldie b 1797 (parents Jame Goldie and Ann Gault) who possibly died in 1821. I've sighted a website which suggests the info came from a headstone in Dumfriesshire. The exact wording is   Name: John GOLDIE
Born: 25 SEP 1797      at: Tynron, Dumfries, Scotland FHL Film 1067971 
Married:                  at:   
Died: MAY 1821       at: Isle 



Hello Maggie

Have you considered his Death (if elsewhere) might be recorded on a local Family Memorial Inscription - where he was born, at TYNRON?


Not seen, but found this online ...
TYNRON GRAVEYARD
Erected to the Memory of
James GOLDIE, late of Stenhouse, who died at Glencrosh November 1839
Ann GAULT his wife, who died at the Manse, Kirkgunzeon, January 1818
John GOLDIE his son, who died at the Isle May 1821
Alexander GOLDIE, H.E.L.C.S., who died at Tata, East Indies, November 1839
James GOLDIE their son, who died at Knackauchle May 1860
Also Jean GOLDIE their daughter, widow of James DICKSON, late of Glengaber,
who died at Glasgow December 1878



Perhaps contacting the Archives at Dumfries and ask them to check the above Memorial Inscription, with their M.I. records?

Mark
Title: Re: John Goldie b 1797 Tynron
Post by: trish1120 on Thursday 09 August 18 14:25 BST (UK)
Not sure what you already have on Johns Parents/Siblings?

FreeREG has children to JAMES/ANN Goldie Tyron;
Ann nee Gault/Galt/Gall
Baptisms below, actual entries also have birth dates;
MARGARET 21 May 1787
JAMES 5 Nov 1788
WILLIAM 16 Oct 1790
JEAN 16 Feb 1792
MARY 10 May 1793
JOHN 1 Oct 1797 (birth 25 Sep 1797)****
ANN 9 Sep 1799
ALEXANDER 10 Apr 1801
Last 3 have abode as Ford, others Stenhouse

JAMES Goldie was likely born there also;
Baptised 8 Feb 1764 (birth 6 Feb 1764) to JAMES/MARGARET Goldie nee RIDDELL
They married 13 Sep 1762 Tyron

Burials Tyron;
JAMES Goldie 30 Nov 1839 age 75 years/10mths

Trish :)

Title: Re: John Goldie b 1797 Tynron
Post by: Maggie Speak on Friday 10 August 18 00:21 BST (UK)
Thank you to both Mark and Trish for your helpful posts. I too had seen the family memorial inscription online, which mentioned John Goldie's death at Isle (where is that???) in 1821. I tried to contact the site owner but got no response. If that death information is correct, then it proves that "my" John Goldie must have different parents and NOT James and Ann, because he fathered 2 sons in Shadwell London in 1820 and 1822, with both being baptized in October 1824 in Tower Hamlets, London, where it states John is a mariner. However, I have come across M I's with the incorrect information in the past, so I'm not dismissing yet...

I will contact Dumfries archives and ask them to check their MI records. Thanks for your help.
Title: Re: John Goldie b 1797 Tynron
Post by: BushInn1746 on Friday 10 August 18 08:11 BST (UK)
Thank you to both Mark and Trish for your helpful posts. I too had seen the family memorial inscription online, which mentioned John Goldie's death at Isle (where is that???) in 1821. I tried to contact the site owner but got no response. If that death information is correct, then it proves that "my" John Goldie must have different parents and NOT James and Ann, because he fathered 2 sons in Shadwell London in 1820 and 1822, with both being baptized in October 1824 in Tower Hamlets, London, where it states John is a mariner. However, I have come across M I's with the incorrect information in the past, so I'm not dismissing yet...

I will contact Dumfries archives and ask them to check their MI records. Thanks for your help.

Hello Maggie

I presume you have worked methodically your personal GOLDIE line backwards from a known family member of yours with BOTH:-
Civil (Death, Marriage & Birth Certificates - Not all Marriages were in Church, so not all Marriage Certificates are online, requiring the GRO Index to be searched)

and the

CENSUS (taken every 10 years 1841 onward, available currently to 1911)?

There are a few Census missing, but by & large they are complete from 1841 onward.


A few relationships in Scotland were by 'Habit & Repute' (Common Law Marriage, with no Registration).


England, especially the Cities and large Towns were very densely populated 19th Century (compared with British in Australia), so the Census (and any Wills if they left one) are a valuable family history tool, along with Certificates, backward from a personally known Ancestor.


Where are your earliest known family in our Census?


John is a most popular first name and there may be 100s of John Goldie alive at any one time in 19th Century Britain, waiting to be discovered.

Mark
Title: Re: John Goldie b 1797 Tynron
Post by: Maggie Speak on Friday 10 August 18 10:47 BST (UK)
G'day Mark,

thank you for your suggestions on methodology. I believe I have been quite thorough in eliminating the possible John Goldies who were living in Shadwell when his sons were baptized in 1824. I have son Thomas's marriage certificate stating who his parents were when he married in Melbourne, Victoria, Australia in 1854, so I know they were John Goldie (a seaman) and Sarah Ann Peart. Thomas had joined the merchant navy in 1838 in London when he was 16 years old and neither he, his brother or parents can be found in the 1840 or later censuses in the UK.

I have a marriage record of John Goldie of the Parish of St Dunstan, Stepney and Sarah Ann Peart of the Parish of Shadwell, marrying in 1819 in Tower Hamlets. Witnesses Sarah Peart (Sarah Ann's mother maybe?) and Mary Ann Nicholls. I did find a marriage of a Sarah Ann Goldie - widow, to John Smith (great!!) in St Dunstan, Stepney in 1826 and thought this might be Thomas's mother remarrying after John had died between 1824 and 1826, but as you can appreciate, looking for a John Smith in the census has been overwhelming and I have not found them living in Shadwell in 1840.

Another researcher suggested that John Goldie's parents were James Goldie and Anna Galt of Tynron and that he died in 1881 in London. I don't think this information is correct. I think it's also a stretch to suggest the MI in the Tynron churchyard could be incorrect in saying John died in 1821, so that rules him out. So just who were his parents?
Title: Re: John Goldie b 1797 Tynron
Post by: BushInn1746 on Friday 10 August 18 11:01 BST (UK)
G'day Mark,

thank you for your suggestions on methodology. I believe I have been quite thorough in eliminating the possible John Goldies who were living in Shadwell when his sons were baptized in 1824. I have son Thomas's marriage certificate stating who his parents were when he married in Melbourne, Victoria, Australia in 1854, so I know they were John Goldie (a seaman) and Sarah Ann Peart. Thomas had joined the merchant navy in 1838 in London when he was 16 years old and neither he, his brother or parents can be found in the 1840 or later censuses in the UK.

I have a marriage record of John Goldie of the Parish of St Dunstan, Stepney and Sarah Ann Peart of the Parish of Shadwell, marrying in 1819 in Tower Hamlets. Witnesses Sarah Peart (Sarah Ann's mother maybe?) and Mary Ann Nicholls. I did find a marriage of a Sarah Ann Goldie - widow, to John Smith (great!!) in St Dunstan, Stepney in 1826 and thought this might be Thomas's mother remarrying after John had died between 1824 and 1826, but as you can appreciate, looking for a John Smith in the census has been overwhelming and I have not found them living in Shadwell in 1840.


Hi Maggie

Tynron looks wrong, if the M.I. online is a correct transcription from the Memorial? I wonder if the Memorial is still there, to check 1821?

Pity about the 1841 Census? It should confirm if Birth was same County - Yes / Y;  No / N; or Scotland / S or Ireland /I, etc.

The ages of adults in the Eng & Wales 1841 Census are usually rounded down to the nearest multiple of 5 years.


A fellow Rootschatter managed to find an 1850 Merchant Navy Master's Certificate online (for me) with place & date of Birth. But that was a Master's Certificate for someone residing Yorkshire.


National Maritime Museum - Greenwich
Some Seaman appear in Muster Rolls, with birthplace and abode given in the Muster. If not online, these may still be with a Museum or Archive, like the National Maritime Museum - Greenwich.
http://collections.rmg.co.uk/archive.html#!asearch


Other Muster Rolls - Saved by the Public Record Office (TNA, Kew, search 1820 to 1840)
Some Ports not named (Record set incomplete)
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r/4?_aq=muster&_cr=BT&_dss=range&_sd=1820&_ed=1840&_ro=any&_st=adv

But those for London may be at Greenwich


Trinity House, London
There was also a Trinity House, London for Seafarers, some of their records have survived two fires, with some searchable online.


But do you know his Vessel name and also his Port at all, it can sometimes help when searching, (where they are not transcribed)?

Mark
Title: Re: John Goldie b 1797 Tynron
Post by: trish1120 on Friday 10 August 18 12:35 BST (UK)
The Tree may have just been guessing when John died.

"Isle" may be anywhere if he was at Sea when he died.

One Tree even has another child to John/Sarah, Mary Ann 1830/31
(from what I can see she was the Daug of John/Lucy, Johns occp Trade)
So I think this is the Upholsterer John.

FreeREG has no Burial for John Goldie in Tyron, if living in Shadwell I think it unlikely he would be taken back to Scotland to be buried in those days.


Trish :)
Title: Re: John Goldie b 1797 Tynron
Post by: robbiesmum on Friday 10 August 18 18:34 BST (UK)
Hi
I've had a look on the british newspaper archive and found this:
May 31st 1821 Caledonian Mercury
At Isle of Nith on the 25th curt., Mr John Goldie, third son of James Goldie Esq. of Knockcauchly.

No idea where these places are but it could confirm the date of 1821?
robbiesmum
Title: Re: John Goldie b 1797 Tynron
Post by: BushInn1746 on Friday 10 August 18 20:29 BST (UK)
Hello all, I am trying to confirm the death of John Goldie b 1797 (parents Jame Goldie and Ann Gault) who possibly died in 1821. I've sighted a website which suggests the info came from a headstone in Dumfriesshire. The exact wording is   Name: John GOLDIE
Born: 25 SEP 1797      at: Tynron, Dumfries, Scotland FHL Film 1067971 
Married:                  at:   
Died: MAY 1821       at: Isle 



Hello Maggie

Have you considered his Death (if elsewhere) might be recorded on a local Family Memorial Inscription - where he was born, at TYNRON?


Not seen, but found this online ...
TYNRON GRAVEYARD
Erected to the Memory of
James GOLDIE, late of Stenhouse, who died at Glencrosh November 1839
Ann GAULT his wife, who died at the Manse, Kirkgunzeon, January 1818
John GOLDIE his son, who died at the Isle May 1821
Alexander GOLDIE, H.E.L.C.S., who died at Tata, East Indies, November 1839
James GOLDIE their son, who died at Knackauchle May 1860
Also Jean GOLDIE their daughter, widow of James DICKSON, late of Glengaber,
who died at Glasgow December 1878



Perhaps contacting the Archives at Dumfries and ask them to check the above Memorial Inscription, with their M.I. records?

Mark


Hi
I've had a look on the british newspaper archive and found this:
May 31st 1821 Caledonian Mercury
At Isle of Nith on the 25th curt., Mr John Goldie, third son of James Goldie Esq. of Knockcauchly.

No idea where these places are but it could confirm the date of 1821?
robbiesmum


Brilliant! Thank you Robbiesmum, Maggie will be pleased.

That confirms the 1821 death and apparently he can be ruled out.

The Nith was a River.

According to an 1831 Dumfries newspaper, the Isle of Nith, Parish of Dunscore.

Mark
Title: Re: John Goldie b 1797 Tynron
Post by: Maggie Speak on Saturday 11 August 18 01:38 BST (UK)
BRILLIANT indeed! Thank you Robbiesmum ;D That solves a 4 year old mystery.


In the British Royal Navy & Royal Marines Service And Pension Records, 1704-1919 there is a John Goldie, a gunner on the Triton in1848 and Niger in 1852 who was paid off in 1856. However, his wife was Margaret whom he married in Kilwinning in Scotland.
There's another merchant navy man John Goldie from Pitenween who married Jessie and had a daughter Margaret.
Merchant navy number 571714 is a John Goldie from Sligo and also a John Goldie number 95169 from Paisley. So the last two are worth me following up, if only to discount.

Thanks once again for your help. I'm thrilled at clearing up the James Goldie/Ann Galt connection (or lack of it! ;D)
Title: Re: John Goldie b 1797 Tynron
Post by: Darlene1937 on Saturday 11 August 18 04:13 BST (UK)
Hello Maggie, I have a copy of Thomas Goldie & Ann Moran Marriage  at St Francis church, Melbourne dated August 3rd 1854, his birth place London, her's Tipperary, His age 28, her's 21...His father John Goldie, Sailor, mother Sarah Peart,...her parents Michael Moran & Judith Meara, ..
Thomas occupation given as Plasterer. ....at this time....  :) Darlene
Title: Re: John Goldie b 1797 Tynron
Post by: Maggie Speak on Saturday 11 August 18 04:56 BST (UK)
Hi Darlene, yes I have the same certificate. So now I know that Thomas's grandparents were NOT James Goldie and Anne Galt, I'm looking for sailors/mariners who lived in Shadwell, Middlesex. I have found likely ancestors in William Goldie who was a ships carpenter who came from Shadwell. He was (born in 1727, died in 1756) and married Ann Jackson found in a non conformist register in 1747 and they had a son William, in 1753 who was also a ships carpenter. He sailed on the "Sir Francis Drake" in 1811. I think this William MIGHT be the great grandfather of our Thomas Goldie, but I'm missing too much information at present to join up the dots.

I've also found a James Gouldey from Shadwell who was a merchant navy man, so he MIGHT be a relative, (perhaps grandfather or uncle?) allowing for spelling variations. When i figure it all out, I'll post back here with my findings :)
Title: Re: John Goldie b 1797 Tynron
Post by: BushInn1746 on Saturday 11 August 18 08:57 BST (UK)
G'day Mark,

thank you for your suggestions on methodology. I believe I have been quite thorough in eliminating the possible John Goldies who were living in Shadwell when his sons were baptized in 1824. I have son Thomas's marriage certificate stating who his parents were when he married in Melbourne, Victoria, Australia in 1854, so I know they were John Goldie (a seaman) and Sarah Ann Peart. Thomas had joined the merchant navy in 1838 in London when he was 16 years old and neither he, his brother or parents can be found in the 1840 or later censuses in the UK.

I have a marriage record of John Goldie of the Parish of St Dunstan, Stepney and Sarah Ann Peart of the Parish of Shadwell, marrying in 1819 in Tower Hamlets. Witnesses Sarah Peart (Sarah Ann's mother maybe?) and Mary Ann Nicholls. I did find a marriage of a Sarah Ann Goldie - widow, to John Smith (great!!) in St Dunstan, Stepney in 1826 and thought this might be Thomas's mother remarrying after John had died between 1824 and 1826, but as you can appreciate, looking for a John Smith in the census has been overwhelming and I have not found them living in Shadwell in 1840.


Hi Maggie

If John Goldie was a Seaman, he should hopefully appear in the Muster Rolls if they have survived and I posted a couple of links previously, including the Maritime Museum Archives at Greenwich. Greenwich was near to Shadwell.

Circa 1800 Muster Rolls (by Vessel/Ship name) should record Names, approximate Ages, Birthplaces & Abodes, of the Master, Mate and Crew, but sometimes not all the information was repeated in some Muster Rolls, so you may need to go forward or back in the Muster Rolls, to find a full entry.

 ----------

There was also a Company called John Goldie, with Sailings from Liverpool to London, in Gore's Liverpool General Advertiser 28 September 1826. Interesting that the Master looks to be Jno Jackson, but very very easy to find coincidences. Address John Goldie, 32 North Side, Old Dock, Liverpool.


Also a James Goldie, Commander of the "Traveller", P. Ritchie, Queen Street, in the Aberdeen Journal, 16 February 1820.


I see the surname Peart coming up (as a Master), in sailings.


Shadwell (West / WSW of Stepney).

Mark
Title: Re: John Goldie b 1797 Tynron
Post by: Maggie Speak on Saturday 11 August 18 10:04 BST (UK)
Hi Mark, I'm just SO impressed by your willingness to help me. Thank you very much! Tomorrow I will follow through on the links you posted. Thomas had not described his father as anything but a sailor or mariner, so I suspect he never reached the lofty heights of becoming a master or owning a ship. But one of his relatives may have. There were a couple of wealthy Goldies who were attached to things nautical, lived in London but hailed from Scotland, but I'm pretty sure they were not related to "my" Goldies. I will let you know what I discover. Exciting to be on a new tack (pardon the pun!)
Title: Re: John Goldie b 1797 Tynron
Post by: BushInn1746 on Saturday 11 August 18 10:59 BST (UK)
Hi Maggie

Probably to rule out.

You also mentioned a Goldie and a Smith.

According to a Thames Police Court case Thomas Goldie, who had a Brother called John Smith (who also used a Johnson alias). Offence occurred at Shadwell, references to the shore, coal ships, barge and vessels there.

Reported in the Morning Advertiser 30 July 1840 (long column), sentenced to Hard Labour.

Mark
Title: Re: John Goldie b 1797 Tynron
Post by: Maggie Speak on Saturday 11 August 18 11:14 BST (UK)
OoooooH now that IS interesting!

I'm not certain, but I think Thomas Goldie jumped ship when it got to Melbourne. He worked as a painter/decorator when he married, then went prospecting.
Title: Re: John Goldie b 1797 Tynron
Post by: BushInn1746 on Sunday 12 August 18 06:48 BST (UK)
Hi Maggie

In March 1840 there was a James Goldie, Esq., Chairman of the Commercial Gas-Light and Coke Company, Tower Hamlets.

Their Works were at Stepney and almost near completion in March 1840.


If you do a Newspaper search with "Goldie" and look in the Morning Advertiser, 1st October 1840, you will find an article titled "Commercial Gas Company" of their company celebration, mentioning Goldie the Chairman and how he was unable to attend due to ill health.


The Company records of the Commercial Gas Company 1838 to 1948 appear to have been saved and occupy 28.5 linear metres of shelving at the London Metropolitan Archives (LMA) Ref GB 0074 B/NTG-11.
https://aim25.com/cgi-bin/vcdf/detail?coll_id=14568&inst_id=118&nv1=search&nv2=


The Company name is also bringing up the records of the London Gas Museum LMA 4223 which seems to be coming up with LMA references now.
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/61b81fa5-23b3-4d8b-b9fb-f73a61a0bbb2


London Metropolitan Archives
The LMA catalogue (covering Middlesex) is another Archives Catalogue, you may wish to try a 'Goldie' search in, too.


Maritime Museum Archives - Greenwwich
But don't forget to enquire about the Muster Rolls, especially at Greenwich Maritime Museum Archives, if your man was a Seaman.


88 Whitechapel High Street
Interesting the Gas Company on Google also brings up this address.
https://surveyoflondon.org/map/feature/320/detail/
Which mentions James Goldie, Distiller (1838), reference cited refers to the Land Tax returns (originals LMA).

Also mentioned, was James Goldie a Scottish Distiller who had built a Distillery adjoining to the rear in George Yard (Gunthorpe Street).


You could try a Goldie and variations of spelling here
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/advanced-search
A lot of regional archives have their some of their archives listings (but not all) on The National Archives search.

Scotland and Wales, each have their national Archives, as well as Regional and County Archives.


Regards Mark
Title: Re: John Goldie b 1797 Tynron
Post by: BushInn1746 on Sunday 12 August 18 13:09 BST (UK)
Another thing to my reply immediately above ...

Was their 1819 Marriage by Licence or Banns (sometimes "Lic" / "by Licence" is on the Marriage entry)?

If so, only few Licences survive.

Application for a Marriage Licence - Bond and Allegation
However to get a Licence, there should be a 'Marriage Bond' and a 'Marriage Intention' also called a 'Marriage Allegation'. It is worth seeing these, to see who the Bondsman offering the £200 Bond was (on the Marriage Bond) and also if there might be any additional information recorded, often not much, but they must be seen, if Marriage was by "Lic" / "by Licence".

Sometimes, a separate Banns Register entry also survives, to the Church Marriage Register entry. I have both entries for an ancestor of mine (Mother's side of the family) around this early 19th Century period.

Mark
Title: Re: John Goldie b 1797 Tynron
Post by: BushInn1746 on Monday 13 August 18 11:26 BST (UK)
Hi Maggie

Probably to rule out.

You also mentioned a Goldie and a Smith.

According to a Thames Police Court case Thomas Goldie, who had a Brother called John Smith (who also used a Johnson alias). Offence occurred at Shadwell, references to the shore, coal ships, barge and vessels there.

Reported in the Morning Advertiser 30 July 1840 (long column), sentenced to Hard Labour.

Mark

Hello Maggie

I am wondering if:-
John Henry Goldie was using John Smith (Court says he was the Brother of Thomas Goldie) and
Thomas Joseph Goldie had dropped his middle name, when caught by the Thames Police.

By 1840 they would be young men and I doubt their parents would be mentioned.

It appears they may have been in trouble at Woolwich reach with others previously, but let off and Goldie was known by Marston, a River Constable.

A Sarah Ann Goldie married a John Smith, at St Dunstan Stepney, London, 19 November 1826.
(Sarah Ann Goldie a Widow according to what you found)

 -----------

If the Parents Marriage (John Goldie & Sarah Ann Peart) was by Licence, then the Marriage Bond and Marriage Intention / Allegation are not online, the Archives which hold the Diocesan Record Archives, will hopefully be able to supply scans of them?

ADDED: but according to your Australian Marriage Certificate, it was John Goldie & Sarah Ann Peart marriage, which is of interest.

Mark