RootsChat.Com
Independent Islands => Isle of Man => Topic started by: John Perry on Monday 29 September 14 21:29 BST (UK)
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I am trying to find the Birth Certificate/Record of my grandfather Thomas Hudson who was born in Arbory Isle of Man circa 1876. I have his marriage Certificate to Phoebe Hudson (nee Jennings) in Bolton in 1897. He appears in the 1901 Census at 55 Sharp Street, Warrington and in the 1911 Census at 21 Clough Street, Bolton. I believe he died in Warrington between July and September 1916.
Can anyone help please?
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Welcome to RootsChat! ;D
Compulsory registration of births began on the Isle of Man in 1878! ;D
The nearest baptism I can see on www.imuseum.im is:
15th July 1877 at Rushen
Thomas Henry Hudson, son of John Hudson (fisherman) and Darah Ann Hudson (nee Higginbottom)
Who does he name as his father on the marriage certificate?
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There's a tree on Ancestry says he was born in 1873 and has the parents' names. Slight variation with spelling of the surname but this looks like the right baptism:-
http://www.imuseum.im/FamilyHistory/View.mth?EntryID=2866087&issourcerecord=true
Other Manx records:-
Parents’ (Hudsen & Wattersen) marriage
http://www.imuseum.im/FamilyHistory/View.mth?EntryID=3082073&issourcerecord=true
Father John (Hutchin)
http://www.imuseum.im/FamilyHistory/View.mth?EntryID=3357256&issourcerecord=true
Grandparents’ (Hutchin & Crellin) marriage
http://www.imuseum.im/FamilyHistory/View.mth?EntryID=3073937&issourcerecord=true
Grandfather John (Hutchin)
http://www.imuseum.im/FamilyHistory/View.mth?EntryID=3355070&issourcerecord=true
Great Grandparents’ (Hutchin & Taggart) marriage
http://www.imuseum.im/FamilyHistory/View.mth?EntryID=3066134&issourcerecord=true
Blue
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Thanks for this. I had found this previously and I am not sure this is the same Thomas Hudson (there seemed to be a number of them in Arbory!). I cannot find this Thomas Hudson in the 1901 Census for either the IoM or Lancashire, whereas the Thomas Hudson who is definitely my grandfather appears in the 1901 census (in Warrington, Lancahire) with the given age of 25 and in 1911 census as 35.
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What are the father's details from the marriage certificate do they match with the links I posted?
Blue
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Thomas's father is named as John Hudson, but there are a number of John Hudsons in the South of the island around this time. The Hudson-Watterson family are (I think) the same Hudsons related to the Qualthrough family http://www.qualtrough.org/articles/articles-canada/hudson-qualtrough.html and i contacted Malcolm Qualthrough last week, but he is unable to throw any light on a Thomas Hudson. If this is my Grandfather, then he seems to be the only one of that family that did not emigrate to Canada - and my mother never mentioned a Canadian link. However the Hudson you mentioned and my grandfather both appear in Warrington Lancashire at some point - but at apparently slightly different ages.
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Are you on Ancestry? If so check out the tree on there and maybe contact them. They have your man as brother to their man.
Blue
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No. I am not on Ancestry, but I have contacted Malcolm Qualthrough to see if he knew what happened to the Thomas on his tree, but he had no information at all.
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I've sent the tree owner a message so she may post on this thread. Her ancestor is James Edward Hudson 1869-1961. She has younger brother Thomas born in 1873, marrying Phoebe Southwell Jennings on 27 Dec 1897 at The Parish Church of the Saviour, Bolton and four children.
Blue
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That is definitely my grandfather! I have their marriage certificate. I don't know a James Edward Hudson though although Thomas and Phoebe had a son called Thomas Edward (mispelt in some records as Samus). The daughter of Thomas Edward is my cousin and still alive.
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The date of birth and address in Warrington is on the tree for that Thomas Edward.
Blue
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As you have probably realised, I'm new to this game :) I looked long and hard at the connections between 'my' Thomas Hudson and the Thomas son of John and Catherine Hudson and was not 100% sure they were the same person. My doubts are based mainly on the fact that in his Marriage Certificate, the 1901 and 1911 Census, 'my' Thomas indicates that he was born in 1875/6 not 1873. Am I being too fastiduous?
Regards
John
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Ages can be out by a few years on census, marriage and death records. Two or three years is quite a reasonable difference.
Blue
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how consistent are derived dob's - if very consistent between different censuses etc then I'd tend to go with them - if a wider variation then a range of a couple of years is ok - if his and his wife's ages were markedly different you often find some 'adjustment' which tend to be forgotten in later years
There is a 6 year old Thomas Hudson (remember on IoM the name can be Hudgeon, Hutchin or Hudson and is quite a common name around Arbory) s/o a Charles Hudson + Ellen at Cross Four Ways but the Thomas s/o John at Three Ways in Arbory is indicated as 8 - both these ages match the baptismal dates
There is a Thomas Henry bapt 1877 s/o of a John + Sara Ann nee Higginbottom
there is a Manx born John T Hudson age 6 s/o John + Margt in Kirkdale Lancs (32 Harebell St) - Manx commonly use the second given name - just offering it as an interesting speculation - John is an unemployed Ships joiner
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It is certainly tempting to assume that 'my' Thomas Hudson is the same as the Thomas son of John and Catherine Hudson (nee Watterson), particularly as they both have a Warrington connection. However, two things make me a little uneasy. One is that in 'my' Thomas, his age on the Wedding Cert, 1901 and 1911 census consistently suggest a dob of 1876 (not 1873 as in the other Thomas). The second unease is that I know most of the children of John and Catherine emigrated to Canada (but not Thomas). My mother and her sister never made mention of having uncles/aunts and cousins in Canada, which I would have thought they would have done given that they were both teenagers at the time of emigration. I'm stumped!
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Have you looked at the tree yet? Any family likeness on the photos?
Blue
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you could try to find the John T in 1891 so see where he is and is he is now referred to as Thomas [John] - is there any newspaper report of his marriage as these sometime name relatives etc - likewise any funeral report which are usually more informative (tho suspect your mother will have all these details) did your mother every mention any Manx relatives as many English based families with Manx connections would jump at chance of 'off loading' children to an Island based relative