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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Moray (Elginshire) => Topic started by: larkspur3 on Wednesday 01 October 14 05:34 BST (UK)
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Does anyone have any idea where the farm/estate of Toberay is or might have been? It existed in the mid 1700s in the parish of Abernethie & Kincardine. However, I've not found it on any map.
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Just having a look for it now but no luck as yet.
Did the place name refer to a birth, marriage or death record?
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Tobar is Gaelic for a well or spring. It may be a very small place which is no longer inhabited. Have you looked at older maps? If you go to the National Library of Scotland maps website, you will get free access to 19th century large-scale Ordnance Survey maps. You will also find Roy's mid-18th century military map there. Witnesses to baptisms can often be neighbours, so if check the area where they are from, you might find it.
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In 1901 a widow Annie Cameron age 56 b in Abernethy and a farmer was living at a property with the address of Toberai, Abernethy & Kincardine
Kay
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Could this be the property?? http://www.wildernesscottages.co.uk/property.php?id_cot=281
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Looks promising Kay. :)
I've been attempting to find the place on older NLS maps, and getting quite lost (many maps not seeming to open) - nothing new there. I love the NLS maps but find it difficult to navigate around the site and the maps.
I think GR2s suggestion of military maps may be a good one - if the place Kay found is right it is not far from "Old Military Road".
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The maps are a nightmare as many do not show this part of the area.
It is shown on the One Inch Popular 1921-1930 Map on the NLS at the top of the map covering Aviemoor
Kay
Edit -also on the same map for 1945-48 covering Grantown-on-Spay
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I've just discovered that there is no coverage for some areas for some dates. :(
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After much messing about I found it on the 21-30 map - at last. ::) I'd say that's got to be the right place. Looks like a farmstead - just a couple of buildings marked on the map.
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Wonderful location based on the photos on the Wilderness Cottages website, if difficult to find ;D
Kay
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Wonderful location based on the photos on the Wilderness Cottages website, if difficult to find ;D
Kay
Oh yes! Stunning! Oh to live there. ;D
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It's possibly easier to find using this link http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/en/site/282859/details/toberaie/ and following the map link on the page
Kay
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It is at NJ 06351 18164. See http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/nj0618
It's also on the 1843-1882 Six-inch map Ordnance Survey and the 1892-1905 Six-inch Ordnance Survey map http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15&lat=57.24317&lon=-3.54948
If you get that on screen you can then select all the different maps using the 'Select a map group' option on the menu bar on the left.
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Oh to live there. ;D
In dead of winter when there's a foot of snow on the access track and there's a power cut? No thanks! :)
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Oh to live there. ;D
In dead of winter when there's a foot of snow on the access track and there's a power cut? No thanks! :)
Especially in the dead of winter! ;D
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Especially in the dead of winter! ;D
Aye, weel, chacun à son goût. :)
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Especially in the dead of winter! ;D
Aye, weel, chacun à son goût. :)
Yes, I love cold weather, and it would make a nice change for me. :)
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Yes, I love cold weather, and it would make a nice change for me. :)
I see you live in Australia. Cold weather is great when it's clear and sunny. Being trapped in the house by snowdrifts, gales and floods (though I doubt that Toberaie would be much troubled by flooding, as it's well up a hillside) for days or weeks on end is no fun, believe me. I've been there, and the novelty soon wears off. And the occupants of Toberaie in the 18th and 19th centuries would have had no electricity at the touch of a switch. They'd have had to rely on firewood for heating and candles, probably tallow ones, for lighting. Compared to our modern living standards it would have been cold and bleak and pretty lacking in comfort.
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Yes, I love cold weather, and it would make a nice change for me. :)
I see you live in Australia. Cold weather is great when it's clear and sunny. Being trapped in the house by snowdrifts, gales and floods (though I doubt that Toberaie would be much troubled by flooding, as it's well up a hillside) for days or weeks on end is no fun, believe me. I've been there, and the novelty soon wears off. And the occupants of Toberaie in the 18th and 19th centuries would have had no electricity at the touch of a switch. They'd have had to rely on firewood for heating and candles, probably tallow ones, for lighting. Compared to our modern living standards it would have been cold and bleak and pretty lacking in comfort.
Of course I understand what you're saying - I was half joking ....(but half serious. ;) )
:)
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:)
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Thank you, all! Since Toberay was undoubtedly a phonetic spelling, I knew there must be a Gaelic spelling. Glad to have it, finally, so I know where it is.
Laura
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Thank you, all! Since Toberay was undoubtedly a phonetic spelling, I knew there must be a Gaelic spelling.
Toberaie is also anglicised or phonetic. That series of letters could not occur in Gaelic.
According to Matheson's Place Names of Elginshire it occurs in a document of 1670 as 'Tobar-fhaidh'. 'Tobar' is Gaelic for a well or a spring, and 'faidh' (pronounced roughly 'fie' to rhyme with 'eye') is a seer or prophet. The form 'fhaidh' is the genitive, meaning 'of the seer', and the letter h represents aspiration, which has the effect of making the 'f' silent. So the Gaelic 'Tobar Fhaidh', pronounced roughly 'towbar-eye' means 'Well of the Seer' or 'Prophet's Spring'.
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Wow there is another Larkspur on here 8)