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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: Greaves on Wednesday 01 October 14 13:26 BST (UK)
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Some help please with tracing some marriages, all I believe involving the same woman.
Charles GAME and Charlotte HART - I believe took place in Chingford in 1822.
William SMITH and Charlotte GAME - I believe took place in Stoke Newington in 1843
David DYER and Charlotte SMITH - I believe took place in Shoreditch in 1856.
I have found a reference for the first wedding, but have no image so cannot verify the father of the bride, which I need to confirm that we are talking about the same woman.
I have a copy of the wedding register for the second wedding, but cannot find an appropriate BMD reference.
I have a BMD reference for the third wedding, but would like an image to verify the father.
My reason for believing that this is the same woman, is that I have found a census reference in 1881, where a Mary Dyer is living in the same house as one of the children of the first marriage and is designated as a mother-in-law.
All help gratefully accepted.
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You have details of the second marriage, in which her father was said to be Thomas Hart, labourer.
Marriage date of 29 Jan 1843 ties in with the Mar qtr 1843 registration: Hackney 3 113.
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Thanks for the help, but on Ancestry the record you suggest does not list Charlotte as a possible spouse. FindMyPast does not come up with any marriage for William Smith in Hackney 1943. FreeBMD comes up with the same reference as you, but there is no matching reference for Charlotte.
Is purchasing the certificate, the only way forward?
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The certificate will contain no better information than the parish record which you say you already have.
The marriage registration is clearly recorded in the typed GRO index. Findmypast have it indexed correctly and their search engine brings it up whether it is William Smith or Charlotte Game one searches for. They have a good-quality scan of the underlying GRO index to back it up.
FreeBMD does not have it indexed correctly and I have submitted a correction. Ancestry purchase their transcriptions from FreeBMD so it is not surprising if you find an error there too.
All of these indexes with (in some cases) their flaws are just finding aids for the information you already have.
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Many thanks for the clarification.
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I have been trying to verify my suspicions by tracking back in the census. So far have located Charlotte Dyer in the 1881 census (living with her daughter from her first marriage) and the 1871 census (living with her husband, David). I have not, however, been able to locate Charlotte Dyer in the 1861 census or Charlotte Game in the 1851 and 1841 censuses.
I have found her children from her first marriage in the 1841 census living in the Edmonton Union Workhouse, but not her. Charles Game, her first husband was transported to Tasmania in 1834 for stealing a parcel. I'm not sure whether she travelled out to be with him (was that likely?) or whether he returned. The death of Charles Games in 1851 in Edmonton reported on many family trees is not him, but his 1 year old grandson.
I would like to be able to establish some continuity beyond what I already have, but it is proving difficult. Any suggestions?
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The 1822 marriage is unlikely to show a father's name unless he happens to be a witness. It is only after 1837 that the father's name is shown.
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Hi
I used the GRO ref for the 3rd marriage to see if I could find it online at Ancestry.
The page range 321-365 is for St Mary Haggeston but these images for 1856 haven't been uploaded.
There is a 'very slim' chance the staff at the LMA may be willing to look at the film for you as Ancestry haven't uploaded it, otherwise they will charge their usual research rate which at the last time of looking was £75 per hour.
Researchers who visit the LMA are few and far between so you may have a long wait to see if anyone can look this up for you.
Otherwise you can try to order from the GRO without using the reference and quote the father's name, if it doesn't match they won't charge you.
Or you can bite the bullet and order the cert for £9.25 knowing beforehand that it may be incorrect.
Dawn
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Dawn -
It's probably just me being thick, but how do you quote father's name (or similar detail) when ordering certificates online? I have tried to do this to narrow a search down, but couldn't find an opportunity to do so!!
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Dawn -
It's probably just me being thick, but how do you quote father's name (or similar detail) when ordering certificates online? I have tried to do this to narrow a search down, but couldn't find an opportunity to do so!!
I think that is a reference check box at the lower end of the page
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once you have signed into the gro, you start your application and on the first screen, tick the marriage box and then you are asked if the GRO ref is known.
The GRO system defaults to no, in most cases when orders are placed you tick the yes box because you have found an entry in the index.
So, staying with the no box ticked, enter the year and move to the next screen.
Once there you only have to enter the groom or the bride, so stay with the bride as it appears in the index, then you also have the ability to enter a date, sticking with their example type 01/01/1856 and then you can enter the place of marriage. I suggest you enter Hackney RD St Mary Haggerston? with the question mark and then you can enter Charlotte's father's name as Thomas Hart.
If all goes well you should get the marriage cert, if it doesn't you'll get an email to let you know a refund will be coming your way.
Ordering without a reference takes 10-15 working days but is a safer way of not losing your money. If you don't get the cert, maybe someone in the future can look at the register for you or we live in hope that one day Ancestry will get around to uploading all the missing pages we know exist.
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OK Dawn - got it.
I always tick yes, because I have looked it up, and then it doesn't give me the options. I need to leave it on the default No. Great - many thanks :) :)
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Thanks for all the help so far. I think I am going to bite the bullet and order some certificates.