RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: jenimac on Saturday 04 October 14 22:38 BST (UK)
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Hi,
I have found an Aberdeen, Scotland 1881 census transcription on "find my past" which states the birth place as "Rhuanah Ireland" for my Ancestor. I have never been able to find 'where' in Ireland he was born so this seems to be a step forward but I cannot find a place by this name. This record is a transcription but no matter what search parameters I use I cannot find the same record on Scotlands People as I was hoping to see the actual writing and hopefully decipher the word if there is no such place as "Rhuanah"
Any help would be greatly appreciated as this has been my major brick wall for years.
many thanks
Jenny
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Can you please give us the other details (name, age, etc.) to see if we can figure it out.
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Yes of course.
The address was 20 Prince Regent Street, St Nicholas, Aberdeen and there were 3 occupants
James Irvine - head - married - 52 - 1829 - fireman (boat) and birthplace is left out but then when you click on the transcription next to his name it brings up more details and that's where it says
birthplace other as transcribed: RHUANAH IRELAND
Janet Irvine - wife - married - 53 - 1828 Birthplace: Nigg, Kincardineshire, Scotland
John Irvine - son - unmarried - 17 - 1864 - twine spinner Birthplace: Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire, Scotland.
This is definitely my ancestor. His wife was Janet Ross born in Nigg and John was his 6th child born in November 1863. On James Irvine's death notice his parents are named Robert Irvine and Elizabeth Hunter but i have never managed to find the pair in Ireland or in fact anywhere in the UK. I do realize mistakes are made on death notices but all we have on him was that and him being born in Ireland on all the census records. He was always a Stoker/Fireman on the census records as well.
He was away from home for the 1861 census and I did find a James ERVIN on board a steamship (Prince Consort)at Lerwick, Shetland where he was married, 31, and birth place was Fermanagh, Ireland but I could never be certain this was my James.
I was wondering whether the transcriber might have deciphered Fermanagh as Rhuanah or is that wishful thinking? :) I just wish I could find the original.
Thanks
Jenny
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Well, I've got another mistranscription of the record for you!
James Groine at 2 Garvock St. born Ireland, Armaugh ???
(wife Janet & son John in household- other details match what you found)
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I think you need to purchase some credits on Scotlands People and view the original census. Then post a snip of the word here for others to give their opinions on the word if it is still not clear.
Transcriptions of Scottish censuses are often very inaccurate. ;)
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Thanks for the replies. I have used up a fair number of SP credits searching for that particular family/address but I cannot find that record. I have written to SP asking if they can shed light on the fact that the record is available at Find My Past (only a transcription) but not at SP. I used the same spelling and also name variants. I will do a couple more searches today and hopefully be more sucessful.
My main reason for posting here was to check if there could possible be a place/town/village called Rhuanah?
I will keep you posed of any developments
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Hi Aghadowey,
I've been looking at your post and I could see that someone could subscribe Irvine as Groine and even possibly Armaugh/Armagh/Rhuanah being confused. Some of that cursive writing is very difficult to decipher. Would you mind telling me where you found that transcription and if possible could you send me a copy?
It would be a great help
Thanks
Jenny
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Oops! I meant transcribe not subscribe
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I've found it!
I used 'Find My Past' to look up other names with the same address and then searched for them on SP and after purchasing about 5 records I FINALLY found it and can understand why the names were so diverse as the writing is appalling.
Now kind folks I need help with the place in Ireland please.
Thanks Jenny
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Hello -
The first letter looks much like the first letter of 'Aberdeen' and could very well have been a misspelling of Armagh.
craggagh.
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Hi Craggagh,
Thanks I agree and if you look at the 'r' in Fireman it is similar to the next letter. My only concern is the 'g' not being there but as you say it might just be a misspelling.
Jenny
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The 'g' is Armagh is silent so it's a common mis-spelling mistake for foreigners (i.e. someone in Scotland).
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Thanks everyone. Do you think I can accept it is Armagh or must I post it in the deciphering forum? The reason I am being so pedantic about it is if we accept it is Armagh, I will then base all my further searches there so obviously i want to be as certain as possible before I begin. For me it is a big break-through as I had almost but not quite resigned myself to never finding his birthplace. Living In South Africa I would absolutely love to visit Ireland and see for myself where one of my ancestors lived but up until now it seemed an impossible dream.
Regards
Jenny
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Hi all,
Just an update on my search.
I am really impressed with Scotlands People.A woman called Eileen investigated and not only did she send me the correct record, transcribed as Samuel Ewing :) but she refunded me with all the credits I had used to find James Irvine. Now that's what I call service and long may it last.
Many thanks to everyone for helping and hopefully I am a step closer to finding my illusive ancestor.
Kind regards
Jenny
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There is a James Irvine on the 1861 census who is in a home port and a fireman
Place of Birth given as Barrhead Scotland
1861 aboard the Princess Alice
James Irvine 30 Fireman b Barrhead Renfrewshire
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thanks for that info Deebel. I will certainly look into it because he wasn't at home in Aberdeen for the 1861 census and I have often wondered where he was but the birth town and county don't match my records at all nevertheless I will still take a look just in case it's another transcription error.
Thanks
Jenny
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To me, if you compare the l in Ireland, it says Almanah.
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Thanks GR2
Yes I see what you mean but if you look at the r in 'fireman' and the r in 'mar' (ied) and even the r in 'Irvine' they are also very similar and the only place in Ireland that I have been offered so far is Armagh but obviously if anyone has another suggestion I would love to consider that.
Jenny
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There are really too many letters in the word for it to be Armagh. No idea what it is though, sorry.
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There is a James Irvine born in Fermanagh Ireland aged 25 on the Merchant Seamans Register in 1856 with a note "First Voyage" (vessel seems to be the Niagara) (which was a Clydebuilt paddle steamer by Robert Steele and Co 1847 of the Cunard Fleet)
I do not know if he enumerated the census personally but if not he may have spoken in an Irish accent that the person completing the form found difficult to follow.... Maybe Fermanagh was misheard as Rhuanah.. Or is it actually F'managh
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Hi everyone, and thanks for further input.
Thanks Deebel, I will look into that info as well.
I did decide to google the word as I read it which is 'Armanah' and to my surprise I have found quite a number of references to Armanah Ireland which I will be following up later today but a brief glimpse shows the word in Canada and I also see a post saying that someone's ancestor was born in Armanah, Ireland and she is asking whether this is Armagh.
Jenny
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New topic on ARMAGH board-
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=701783.new#new
There are really too many letters in the word for it to be Armagh. No idea what it is though, sorry.
Not if you compare the capital A in Aberdeen with this word.
I do not know if he enumerated the census personally but if not he may have spoken in an Irish accent that the person completing the form found difficult to follow.... Maybe Fermanagh was misheard as Rhuanah.. Or is it actually F'managh
The enumerator would have taken down the details as he heard them but compare the A with the A in Aberdeen below.
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On FS
Name: John Irvine poss father?
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1821
Event Place: Derryvullan, Fermanagh, Ireland
Townland: Nockrow
County: Fermanagh
Parish: Derryvullan
Relationship to Head of Household: Son
Birth Date: 1799
Piece/Folio: 191
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
James Irvine U 60
Mary Irvine Wife U 54
John Irvine Son U 22
Bell Irvine Daughter U 18
Wm Carter U 15
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Irvine's a very common surname in Ulster so it's difficult to connect the 1821 record with John Irvine in Scotland without a lot more information.
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Thanks Deebel,
Jame Irvine(Irvin) died in Aberdeen in 1900 I can pretty much trace him to living there since he married Janet Ross at Kincardine Devenick and then they moved to St Nicholas Aberdeen where both died. He was always a Stoker/fireman.
On his death notice his parents were recorded as Robert irvin (famer) and Elizabeth Hunter. The informant was their eldest son James (my line) and he was a shipwright in Aberdeen and I know both men could write as I have James,the stoker, signed a son's death notice and James, the shipwright, sighed both parents' death notices.
Yesterday I wrote to Roots Ireland and they agree with everyone that it is most likely the place is Fermanagh or Armagh because they were probably spelling it phonetically.
Just one more piece of info, I found an 1861 record for a James Ervin, married, 31, Fireman, Fermanagh, Ireland on a ship called the "Prince Consort" which was in port at Lerwick, Shetland, at the time and Janet was the head of her family in Aberdeen with 'Seaman's wife' alongside her name. This is the only record in 1861 with the name Irvine that I have found so far that could match my James.
Just a thought but based on the word being taken down phonetically, wouldn't Armanah be more likely to be Fermanagh than Armagh? I have seen Fermanagh spelt Farmanagh at times.
Anyway if anyone can suggest where I try find the parents I would be forever grateful.
Thanks
Jenny
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https://archive.org/details/irvinestheirkinh00boyd
There is an online book The Irvines and their Kin here.....