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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Caernarvonshire => Topic started by: robdavies66 on Sunday 05 October 14 22:23 BST (UK)
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This is not a request for a Look-Up as such, but hopefully for comments on how I can progress going forward in this situation.
By the way, I'm using the spelling at it appears on the documentation that I have -- which I'm well aware conflicts with current usage.
My 2x great grandparents Robert WILLIAMS & Jane WILLIAMS (yes that was her maiden surname) were married on 5 Jun 1843 at the Parish Church, Llanbeblig. The 1851 Census shows them living at Boot Street, Carnarvon with three children, Jane aged 6, Robert (my great grandfather) aged 3 & Mary aged 3 weeks.
I've been able to obtain the birth certificates for Robert (born on 21 Jun 1849 at Bangor Street, Carnarvon) & Mary (born on 6 Mar 1851 at Boot Street, Carnarvon).
However, I've totally failed in my attempts to obtain Jane's birth certificate.
From FreeREG, I've found a Llanbeblig baptism record for Robert WILLIAMS on 21 Oct 1849 where parents are Robert & Jane but none for Jane or Mary.
As the 1851 Census has a Robert WILLIAMS aged 1, living (& born) in Llanbeblig with his parents Robert & Jane and elder brother Thomas, I suspect the FreeREG Baptism record is for this 'other' Robert WILLIAMS & not my g gf -- although there is no matching FreeREG Baptism record for the elder brother Thomas.
Jane, aged 26, married Elias Millward on 4 Dec 1877 & died aged 66 on 18 Mar 1911 -- I have copies of both her Marriage & Death certificates
On her Census records, her age is shown as:-
* 1851 - 6
* 1861 - 16
* 1881 - 38
* 1891 - 46
* 1901 - 57
So I'm very confident that she was born between 2Q 1843 & 2Q 1845 (allowing for late registration).
Unfortunately there are 25! entries in the E&W Birth Index for Jane WILLIAMS registered in Carnarvon within this time period.
While the GRO provide a search facility, it's just limited to the first six entries they find in a defined period (1 Jan of a specified year +/-one year either way) & so all my efforts to date have fallen flat.
The reason why I really want to get this birth certificate is to see if it will shed more light on my 2xg gps.
So, I'd appreciate any advice & guidance on how best to progress with my efforts in obtaining Jane's birth certificate.
Thanks & regards, Rob DAVIES
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The first thing to ask is;Do you have the 1843 marriage certificate?
regards
William Russell Jones.
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hi Rob
Have you tried northwalesbmd.org.uk. I see they note a civil marriage for Jane to Elias.
between this site and freebmd.org.uk you may be able to at least narrow your search.
Looking at dates for Jane I would stick with 1845 as the year of birth
A note - local registrars do ask for more checking information so you may consider applying locally instead of through the GRO. Local contact details are on North Wales bmd site
regards
Mair
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There appears to be an inconsistency in dates/ages that would be useful to clear up.The marriage to Elias Millward is 1875 not 1877.Even so,if Jane is 26,this gives her birth as circa 1849.Is there a typo on her age at marriage?
Regards
Roger
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Well Roger,as we know Census entries are not the best guide to when someone was born.There are all sorts of reasons why differing ages are given,apart from any known accuracy!
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Thanks to everyone for their input so far.
However, I have to hang my head in shame as I made TWO typos re Jane's marriage to Elias MILLWARD. She was aged 28 (it was Elias who was aged 26) & they are married on 4 Dec 1875 (not 1877).
I confirm that I do have a copy of the 1843 marriage certificate.
I have made a first look at the North Wales BMD website but I'm not finding it the most user friendly & I'm struggling on how to get to look at Birth Index for the Caernarfon sub District.
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The corrected marriage data still gives a possible birth date as late as 1847 unfortunately.
I'm not sure of the problem with the NorthWalesBMD site.The main district-"Gwynedd-Caernarfon" has to be entered first,then the sub-district-"Caernarfon" can be selected.If for any reason you can't select/display the sub district,choose a different main district,then return to the "Gwynedd-Caernarfon" one,which should unlock the sub-districts again.
Regards
Roger
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Looking at the North Wales BMD Site entering 1844 as a possible Birthyear for Jane Williams the daughter,there are four possibilities given.Assuming that Jane is the eldest child I would give 1844 as the favourite.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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I've been back into the North Wales Website & I'm beginning to find out how it works -- mainly by having to hold the cursor over the BMD 'boxes'.
Based mainly on the 1851 Census (where her age is shown as six & the ages for her siblings are correct), I consider that the four 1844 & the one 1845 entries are the most likely candidates. I've printed off the application forms for all five & I'll be posting them to tomorrow with a covering letter explaining the background to my request.
So with crossed fingers, I might be on the way to getting Jane's birth certificate.
Thanks for your help everyone,
Regards, Rob
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Hi Rob
Northwales bmd can be finnicky - I find it best NOT to enter a region as they swapped and changed so often anyway! :) and then pick the best from the mass generated.
If you believe the age on the marriage certificate - I would not. She is already 2 years older than her husband - any more it may not be seen as "proper" - it is a civil marriage which indicates non-conformist chapel or registrar attended ( i would lean to the former)
As you can see from the form you have to complete much more infromation is required than with GRO. I think you are right to put the parameters and the details of the full situation in a covering letter as you take the plunge and seek the certificate. I realise there are many more Jane Williams' than just the one transcribed on this site for 1845- freebmd.org.uk says so, but its a start.
I found my certificates without this site, I was lucky, but I crossed referenced them none the less - I at least know the local registration number - makes it more relevant to the actual line and the event I think.
Happy Searching
Mair
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As far as the issue of Llanbeblig/Caernarvon is concerned,Caernarvon as a town is considered to be within the Parish of Llanbeblig.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Whilst of course as you've hinted at there were many Williams families in Caernarvon,as a matter of curiosity;Who did your Great-Grandfather Robert Williams marry?
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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S U C C E S S !!
I received in the post today a copy of the correct birth certificate for Jane Williams, born on 13 Aug 1844 at Pentre Newydd, Carnarvon, daughter of Robert William, Shoemaker & Jane Williams, formerly Williams.
The reason why I'm 100% certain that this is correct is because Pentre Newydd is shown as the Place of Residence for her mother on her parents' marriage certificate (they married on 5 Jun 1843 at Llanbeblig Parish Church)
Once again, thanks to everyone who helped en-route to obtaining this birth certificate
Regards, Rob
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Chuffed to little mintballs "for yer" - from an ex pat Welsh Lancastrian .