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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Kildare => Topic started by: Casabeag on Monday 06 October 14 18:09 BST (UK)
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Hi all,
I am researching information on Nora Tierney of Harristown Co.Kildare (lived in Gurteen, Nurney)
Born in Athy in Apr-Jun 1921
Married John Conway in Oct-Dec 1947
Died 14th Aug 2008
I have found that Nora's father was Patrick Tierney of Harristown and her mother was Elizabeth Callan of Richardstown but I can't find them in the census or any record of marriage ???
Any information is appreciated.
Thanks,
Jess
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Hi There
It could be coincidental BUT this Patrick Tierney marriage has an Elizabeth CULLEN / LIZZY CALLAN on the same page.
Name: Patrick Tierney
Date : Apr-May-Jun 1904
District: Athy
Volume: 3
Page: 274
You will only know by ordering the cert if it's the correct one !
Tara
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Hi There
So, this is obviously Patrick in 1901 !
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Kildare/Harristown/Harristown_Lower/1435072/
By 1911 he is off the land !
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Kildare/Harristown/Harristown_Upper/537812/
So, Patrick moved obviously for a bit of work and here he is with Elizabeth ~ all dates add up to the marriage that I posted.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Queen_s_Co_/Killermogh/Ballycolla_Heath/784888/
Here then is Elizabeth / Lizzie in 1901 !
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Kildare/Harristown/Bawn/1435037/
Tara
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Hi Tara,
Thanks for your help with this I too checked the census and found the two in Kildare but didn't link the moving off the land so delighted to have made that connection.
I did find a burial in Harristown of Patrick Tierney died 06/09/1940 aged 83yrs which means born circa 1857. The census in 1911 has him aged 50yrs he should be 54yrs, Lizzie is also only 28yrs in 1911 and she was 20yrs in 1901. Do you think these are still the same people?
The gravestone also had Mary Tierney aged 81yrs d1997, Daniel aged 74yrs d1983 so it looks like it could be them.
Thanks again - the search goes on ;)
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Lizzie's birth ?
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FG2Z-G5B
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parents marriage if right family
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FYQF-8NB
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FYQ6-QNG
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Going on Joseph's birth the youngest
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FBFF-PMF
This is most likely the fathers death
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FT84-WW5
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Will of William Callan
http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/reels/cwa/005014909/005014909_00501.pdf
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Hi Jess
It's most defo the same family !
People made guesses to their ages as birthdays were not celebrated like they are these days.
Tara
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Great finds Dathai ;D
Certainly look to be adding up to be Lizzy's family !
Tara
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I'm working on the presumption that Patrick's father's name was Daniel (due to naming patterns).
If so then this would look like him on GV !
http://www.failteromhat.com/griffiths/kildare/harristown.htm
Tara
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There are Callans on it too for the right townland.
Tara
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Yes, all the graveyard records add up ;D
http://www.from-ireland.net/harristown-graveyard-records-kildare/
Patrick obviously moved off the land for work but went back to his roots after a while !
Tara
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Tierney's of Harristown on The Tithes
http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/results.jsp?county=Kildare&parish=Harristown&townland=Harristown&search=Search
Tara
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This is Mary Anne Tierney (sister of Patrick).
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Kildare/Harristown/Lennagorra/1435080/
She married Christopher Morgan in 1888.
Her daughter Mary Morgan is with Patrick in 1901 and the rest of the Tierney's in 1911.
This is Mary Anne Tierney Morgan in 1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Kildare/Harristown/Lenagorra/537814/
Tara
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Maria Callan's Will?
http://www.nationalarchives.ie/search-the-archives/
Died 1928 will 1931 Harristown.
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Sorry may not be her as it says married woman
Lizzie had a brother William Callan
a William Callan got married in Athy 1922
There seem to be two matches for brides named Mary
Mary Melia and Mary Morgan
the Will may be referring to this Mary Callan
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wow - this is brilliant thank you all.
What is the GV does this just indicate that they owned land?
:)
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GV is Griffiths Valuation and just shows what rates they had to pay on the land they farmed.
No, they wouldn't have owned the farmland.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griffith%27s_Valuation
Tara
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Would you think this was Patrick's father??
Daniel Tierney b1825
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FRR1-2JD
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It would be very hard to know !
IF it was him it would make him abt 25 years of age having Patrick.
I have usually found farming men, of the time, having their families a bit older (mid 30's / early 40's) but there are always exceptions to the rules.
I haven't looked at Kildare much but is the Tierney name a common surname there ?
Tara
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Hi Tara,
I'm not sure I think it's found more in Cavan, Monaghan and Antrim - Harristown is really only a small road - it's hard to tell it gets more confusing the further you go back I find trying to piece it together is difficult - I find it harder when your guessing can send you completely down the wrong track.
Help on here is great - thanks again
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It can get VERY expensive if you were to buy every cert that MIGHT be correct.
I'd file the details under 'possibilities' and hopefully at some point you may get something to either back it up or discount it.
Tara
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Can anyone make out what this headstone says? I can read some of it but missing others, I think this is the same family
http://www.from-ireland.net/cms/wp-content/gallery/harristown-graveyard-co-kildare/3.jpg
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BRILLIANT Jess
HA I was HOPING that there would be something with the name Cornelious in it to confirm a theory that I had.
SOOOOOO Patrick Tierney's parent's were Daniel Tierney and CATHERINE LAWLOR
Here is the baptism of Cornelious Tierney
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FR3X-9WY
Here is the baptism of John Tierney
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FR3X-94L
Tara
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In
N LOVING MEMORY
OF
MARY CALLAN
HARRISTOWN
DIED ?
WILLIAM CALLAN
DIED 20TH ?
HER UNCLE CORNELIOUS TIERNEY
DIED 20TH JAN 1891
HER AUNT MARGARET TIERNEY
DIED 12TH JUNE 1911
HER UNCLE JOHN TIERNEY
DIED 22ND MARCH 1921
HER UNCLE DANIEL TIERNEY
DIED ? 1948
THEIR SON WILLIAM CALLAN
DIED ?
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Jane Lyons actual transcriptions of the dates are here
http://www.from-ireland.net/harristown-graveyard-records-kildare/
Tara
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I'm getting confused now ???
Is this Mary Callan the daugher of Willam Callan & Maria Whelan
- William her brother? (son of William & Maria)
- Uncle Cornelious Tierney (brother of Patrick Tierney?)
I'm missing the connection here with the Tierney and Callan's that we've found on the census
So far we had -
Parents
William Callan + Maria Whelan
Children:
Elizabeth Callen (married Patrick Tierney)
Michael Callen
Timothy Callen
James Callen
Mary Callen (is this her from the headstone??)
William Callen
Joseph Callen
For Patrick Tierney married to Elizabeth Callen I have his siblings as...
Mary Anne Tierney
Samuel Tierney
Daniel Tierney
Margaret Tierney
John Tierney
No Cornelius here and how can he be Mary's uncle??
Thanks
Jess
Also found this photo
http://www.from-ireland.net/cms/wp-content/gallery/harristown-graveyard-co-kildare/24.jpg
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It's defo the right family, I am in NO doubt as to that.
My instinct is that the grave was purchased in the the mid 1900's by one of Elizabeth Callan Tierney & Patrick Tierney's children ~ hence the references to aunt / uncle.
There is NO WAY that there are that amount of people in the one grave, so I would imagine that permission was gotten to put all the names on it.
IF you really wanted to get to the end of it you would need to talk to who owns the graveyard to see what records they have as to who actually bought the grave ~ you should get your answer there.
Tara
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Yes I will try that looks like Cornelius and John were twins too.
Just noticed Cornelius would have been dead before 1901 - he died at 25yrs if you take birth record and grave inscription. I wonder was Daniel married twice? Strange that they are the only two entries for children.
Thanks for your help great to get a run at it
Jess
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If you look at the dates on the headstone you can see that these people weren't just buried in there in the normal tradition.
There is Mary Callan (nee Whelan) named first (even though she died after her husband)
THEN her husband William is down.
There is then the big gap and all the Tierney's were named on the grave, and then there is the much later dated son William Callan.
Rest assured it is 100% the correct family, it's just that at some point one of Patrick Tierney's daughters got her aunts and uncles named in the grave, possibly interred from elsewhere.
I have seen this happen in families where there was no money to buy a headstone at the time.
In later years a relative earns a few bob and then decides to buy a headstone.
Of course THIS person gets the say in what is carved on the stone making it SUPER confusing for us coming along years later ;D
Tara
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"Is Tierney a common name in Kildare?"
http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/surname/
This link gives distribution of Tierney based on Griffiths Valuation...28 entries for Tierney for Co Kildare. :) Just enter surname in "surname" box and click "Go"
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Hi
William Callan and Mary(Maria) Whelan are buried in Kildangan Cemetry, Their son Michael married to Ellen Kavanagh were my grandparents - I have some of their info on ancestry.co.uk under callan family tree, would love to be able to add to Tierney side
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please see attachment for records I have for Patrick Tierney & Lizzie (Elizabeth) Callan
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...Harristown is really only a small road...
Harristown Lower and Harristown Upper are townlands-
https://www.townlands.ie/kildare/west-offaly/harristown/harristown/harristown-lower/
https://www.townlands.ie/kildare/west-offaly/harristown/harristown/harristown-upper/
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/4829607#map=12/53.1336/-6.8644