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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Derry (Londonderry) => Topic started by: Purudaya on Monday 13 October 14 04:52 BST (UK)
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Hi. I am trying to find out further information on Henry McCloskey b.20 Dec 1872 in Mullaghmore to Patrick McCloskey (18844-1904) and Ann Wade (c1847-1877). I found his birth details but then nothing. His sisters that I have found - Elizabeth (b.c.1873) Annie (b.1874), Mary Jane (b.1876-1877) and stepsister Margaret (b.1881) attended Culcrow School . I think I knew of his existence when I checked the schools records but did not find any details for Henry attending this school at the PRONI sources. I have been unable to find any Irish death or marriage or Census 1900. Yet we have a photo which we think shows the brother Henry - one about 18 and another late 20's - we think located in Agivey, Aghadowey. There are several Henry or H. McCloskey's (one spelt McCluskey) emigrating around 1890 from Derry but I cannot determine their place of origin in Derry. (There are several Henry McCloskey's from Dungiven which I dont think are related).
There is a view in the family that whilst one sister ended up in Glasgow, two sisters went to Australia (Annie and Margaret) and that family also went to US. I have looked at the US Census and again find a couple of references to a Henry McCluskey or McCloskey with only one perhaps being right in the general details. I have tried to look at marriage in US sources but I am not sure I am getting them all, just several states?
How do I find out the details behind the general descriptor of birthplace - Ireland - in Census data ? It doesn't look like it is collected.
Is there a general register of all marriages in the US ?
How do I move forward with this ? Any thoughts would be welcome ? Thanks. :-\ ;D
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I should be able to fill in some details of the family in Ireland for you but may take a while to type everything out.
3 Nov.1862 Coleraine Registry Office: Hugh McCloskey*, age 20, carter, Landagivey, son of Hugh McCloskey labourer, to Nancy Wade, Garvagh, daughter of Thomas Wade labourer. (Marriage also reported in Coleraine Chronicle, 15 Nov.1862).
* possibly the Hugh McCloskey married c1876 at St. Mary's (Our Lady of the Assumption R.C. Church) Mary Gallagher.
Not to be confused with the James McCloskey, J.P. who lived in Agivey House and at Mullamore.
More to follow...
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Hi Aghadowey. It is my understanding that Hugh McCloskey is the brother of Patrick and my sense is that they married sisters. Hugh married Nancy and Patrick, Ann. Patrick's Father was Hugh also. But I have not been able to find any details of Patrick and Ann's marriage. Yes I had thought that James was the Agivey House, McCloskey. looking forward to further information. Thank you so much.
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Patrick McLoskey in 1901 census with wife Mary and a daughter Mary Jane-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Agivey/Mullaghmore/1516327
Patrick's widow in 1911 although she's more than 10 years older than 1901*-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Agivey/Mullaghmore/652190
* if 1901 age is correct she could be Mary Jane's mother but if 1911 is correct them she was unlikely to be the child's mother.
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Quite unusual for two surviving sisters to be named Ann and Nancy since they are both forms of the same name but seems to have been the case here. Will copy out the 1862 newspaper notice shortly but the one other detail it gives is "Nancy Wade, Cullycapple" which means that Nancy was probably working there at the time she married but her father/family was in Garvagh.
I have a note (not copied out whole notice) for Constitution, 16 Jan.1904: Aghadowey Notes- Saturday evening last, Patrick McCloskey, Lissaghmore, died 58, died suddenly, wife, skilled workman.
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Very quick reply... shall go online later again.......Mary Jane McCloskey in 1901 census is the daughter of Annie McCloskey who was born in 1893 and was brought up by Patrick and Mary. Annie was working in Glasgow and married Patrick Murray in Glasgow in 1904.
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Children of Patrick McCloskey & Ann Wade:
1. Ann (1874) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FPMG-X97
2. Mary Jane (1876) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FGF4-S4B
Are you sure about Henry being born 20 Dec.1872 Mullaghmore? I can't find a match yet in the civil index for his borth. This is the closest so far-
Henry McCloskey, son of Bernard & Mary (McCloskey), born 28 Dec.1872
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FGRS-WFS
Added- mother McClockey, birth registered Limavady district
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Hi,
1 Jan 1872 Patrick McCloskey married Ann Wade in Aghadowey Roman Catholic Church.
Regards
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1 Jan 1872 Patrick McCloskey married Ann Wade in Aghadowey Roman Catholic Church.
Brilliant. I hadn't gotten to look for that marriage yet. This would have been before the present chapel was built. The older chapel known as Bovagh was actually in the townland of Mullahinch but was in a terrible state of dis-repair for many years before the present one was built just before 1900 so services were held at various places for quite a long period.
Was hoping for a Will but no such luck although PRONI should have paperwork dealing with the administration. It may be as little as a printed form filled in saying he left a widow and X number of surviving legitimate children or it may contacin other documents. When my great-gradfather's brother died there was an affidavit in the file saying he relinquished his share to a niece in Ireland which gave his Philadelphia address.
"Administration of the estate of Patrick M'Closkey late of Mullaghmore Aghadowey County Londonderry Farmer who died 9 January 1904 granted at Londonderry to Mary M'Closkey the Widow" effects £14
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Hi,
I wonder if the Patrick and "Mary" could be Patrick McCloskey and Marianne Gallagher who married on 3 Aug 1879 in Aghadowey Roman Catholic Church.
Regards
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Thanks for Patrick's wedding date to Ann Wade. And the one mentioned by Kingskerwell is correct for the marriage to Mary Gallagher. Yes there were 2 Mary Jane's in the one extended family. One born 1876 to Patrick and Ann Wade who died in 1877 at less than a year old and one b. 1893 to Annie McCloskey who was brought up by Patrick and Mary. Annie worked in Glasgow and married Patrick Murray in 1904 in Glasgow.
Thank for the notice from Constitution ? is that a Coleraine paper? Patrick has not before been described as a skilled workman. Only ever as a labourer.
I also thought that Patrick came to own the land on which the cottage was situated. I thought it happened resulting from one of the Gladstone Land Acts but clearly after 1886 because he is recorded somewhere as paying rent of 18/- pa for the 'farm'. Did Patrick get to own the land ? or Mary ? There is no mention of it in the will and yet I thought I had found it somewhere.
i do have proof of Henry being born but cant lay my hands on it. I think from PRONI or GRONI whatever it is called. That is how I knew it was 20 Dec 1872 and it would have stated Patrick and Ann Wade for me to be sure. Thanks....
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I am mystified as to my sources for Henry McCloskey. I cannot locate material here. I shall keep looking. Can Henry not exist after all ?
Re Patrick's house and garden. I have notes from reading the will at PRONI several years ago when in Ireland, where Patrick is described as a Farmer. it says 'a house and large garden at Mullaghmore bought prior to 1896 from the Ironmongers Coy under the Irish Land Acts. Poor Law valuation at 1.5.0 GBP. Valued at 20GBP when Patrick died'.
What land Act would have enabled Patrick to buy the land ? What would he have grown on it ?
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Have started looking through my sources for the family (not available online).
1886 Ironmongers’ Co. Tenants List- Mullamore townland
Patrick McCloskey 0.3.34 annual rent 0.18.0
Looking back to 1863 Ironmongers' Co. Notes on Tenants (original in Guildhall Library, London) I find the above property under Widow Catherine Heaney (annual rent £1.1s) ”And Widow McClosky, her daughters, and two nieces.”
So, there's some connection between the McCloskeys of Mullamore and this widow Catherine Heaney.
Also, here's the marriage notice (the Constitution was also a local Coleraine paper): Coleraine Chronicle, 15 Nov.1862: At the Register Office, Coleraine, on the 3rd inst., Mr. Hugh Henry McCloskey, Agivey, to Miss Nancy Wade, Cullycapple, Aghadowey.
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Hi,
The Griffiths Valuation Revision Books state that Patrick bought his house and garden, 3 roods and 14 perchs ie nearly one acre, in 1891.
Regards
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Thank you for that information re the land. I dont know what the connection between Catherine Heaney and Widow McCloskey is. And I have not been able to locate other siblings for Patrick apart from Hugh Henry whom you located marrying Nancy Wade.
Patrick's parents I believe to be Hugh and Mary McLaughlin. I have not been able to find reliable birth and death details for either. I think Hugh was born in 1806 a deduction I think from 1831 Census. I have 1863 down as the year of his death but that is also a deduction.
Ann Wade's death was reported by a Margaret McCloskey, but I tried to find a Margaret as daughter of Hugh and Mary but could not. :-\
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From the Valuation Revision Books (see PRONI's website to view the scanned images)- MULLAMORE (under Aghadowey Parish):
1862-1864: 14. Catherine Heney, ho & land
1865-1880: 14. Catherine Heney
1881-1891: 14. Catherine Heney changed to Patk McCloskey 1886
1891-1899: 14. Patk McCloskey in fee 1891
1900-1910: 14. Patk McCloskey, (crossed out in red) Robert Hanna 1901, then changed to Patrick McCloskey 1904, then Mary McCloskey 1909
1911-1929: 14. Mary McCloskey, changed to Rachel Hegarty 1926
Will post more later
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Hi Aghadowey.... if I have made a mistake re Henry... and I am still very surprised re this but perhaps it is so.....I am left with x3 photos which contain a young man whose name we don't know.
Before I only had one question re the photos - were they taken at the House in the garden that Patrick and Mary lived in - in one of them...is that Agivey House over the river (if my memory is right) in the background. They were in Mary Arnold's collection and entitled Afternoon Tea at Home. Her family said that when Mary referred to 'home' she always was referring to Ireland. I was wondering if there was any way I could have the backgrounds checked. Patrick and Mary lived near the Blairs I think... certainly Sarah Blair was their great friend and when I visited I thought someone pointed to the Blair's house nearby.
But now there are 2 questions ......who is the young man ?
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Can you scan the photos from 'home' to see if I, or someone else, can recognise the house or locality.
Added- this could be the Blairs you mentioned- in which case there's still a family member about:
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Agivey/Mullaghmore/652192
Will re-check existing headstones in Agivey graveyard to see if I can find McCloskeys or Catherine Heney.
Going back to something you posted at the start- "His sisters that I have found - Elizabeth (b.c.1873) Annie (b.1874), Mary Jane (b.1876-1877) and stepsister Margaret (b.1881) attended Culcrow School . I think I knew of his existence when I checked the schools records but did not find any details for Henry attending this school at the PRONI sources."
Culcrow (Milltown School) is farther than I would have expected to find them. Did you know that boys & girls are listed in separate registers? I would have thought the McCloskey children would have attended Droghed School (demolished when the aerodrome was built during WWII or possibly the girls at Cullycapple School (a female school before c1890 which then became a mixed school).
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Yes ... here they are... x3
(1) In the garden with x2 women seated - we believe that the older woman is Mary McCloskey and Patrick is standing beside her in the photo where seated. But I wondered if there was something on somewhere that they attended. I think this must be close to 1904. I think it is the same young man as in (2) and (3) but older now. I thought the background was like nothing I associated with Agivey.
(2) In garden Mary plus Annie McCloskey and young man. Probably Agivey I think
(3) Afternoon Tea - again Mary and Patrick - and her granddaughter believes it is a young Annie McCloskey ... again with a young man we thought must have been Henry. Again I think this is outside at Agivey ?
Thanks.....
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and trying again... (2)
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and (3) Afternoon Tea at Home -
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Lovely photos (thanks for posting so quickly) but I don't think it's Agivey, Aghadowey or even Ireland.
Photo #3 shows what could be a church in the background (of local it was the style of a Presbyterian one) but it's not any of the following local ones- Aghadowey, Crossgar, Moneydig, Killaig, 1st 2nd or 3rd Garvagh, etc.
Perhaps that building isn't a church but the siting of the large house (background photo #1) doesn't match Agivey house.
Low building in photos #1 and #3 has a dormer window of a style not found here but it is very common in Scotland (certainly Ayrshire/Lanarkshire).
So, you mentioned a Glasgow connection- could they have been taken there?
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Whooooh ......... that has always been my concern. But I am surprised that the one in the garden with Mary, Annie and young man you suggest is not Agivey ? The one of the women seated and afternoon tea photo perhaps was taken in Glasgow. Back to the drawing board!!
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Photo number 2 could have been taken anywhere, I'm afraid.
Do you have a Glasgow address? streetview is wonderful for finding buildings, landscapes, etc.
Still wondering about the Milltown School records you found. The register will list name, roll #, date of entry, age at enrollment or date of birth in later books, religion, townland, father's occupation. Also, often school child came from and that they went to. I have some (not all) records for Milltown but not sure if the pages cover the right period). The only thing I have from Droghed is an old photograph of the school with the master outside. For Cullycapple I have a huge collection of photos (1890s onwards) and attendance registers (early 1900s onwards) so will have a look when I get a chance.
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Is Milltown another name for the Culcrow school ? Elizabeth, Annie and Margaret had all left school by 1891. The address that Annie lived at was Dumbarton Rd in Patrick, Glasgow. I would need to recheck the number, but I dont recall or know what years Annie lived there from.
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If you had any photos from your collection which identified Patrick McCloskey and Mary or their children, that we could see it would be great. Pictures of Culcrow school. The photos I sent you have only come to our family in the last few months so we have been trying to piece it together. Sarah Blair was a great friend of Nana's and Annie's. Thanks for that information.
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'Culcrow' School was actually Milltown National School- you'll see it as Milltown in the registers. Found the pages I have front the registers and no McCloskeys but there are a few children from Mullaghmore there.
I have a large collection of Cullycapple photos but nothing for Culcrow the right period.
I'm thinking about going down to see a descendant of the Blairs in case they know something about McCloskeys....
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That is a good idea. I tried to call one yesterday to see if she/he had any information re the photos etc but not home. I have a photo of Nana and Annie and her 2nd husband after Patrick Murray died. There is another woman in the photo we don't know but suspect might be Sarah Blair. Taken we think between 1919 - 1921 before Annie came to Australia. It is taken at Giants Causeway. I shall send it later and perhaps you can ask. Nana and Annie stayed with Sarah Blair in 1938 when they had a return trip to Ireland and Scotland. It was just before Sarah died.
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I also have a number of letters that Jim Boyle (Agivey) sent to Nana. I met him in 1971 when I was traveling around Ireland with some girlfriends and somewhere have a photo with him outside where he lived with another family I think.
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Here's Sarah Blair's gravestone which was put up only a few years ago-
http://www.discovereverafter.com/plot/17424
This might be the Jim Boyle you mentioned:
http://www.discovereverafter.com/plot/17440
As far as I know, these Boyles lived at Braehead, Agivey. Robert and son Jim were blacksmiths.
"Boyle, Robert of Mullaghmore Aghadowey county Londonderry retired farmer died 18 January 1937 Probate Belfast 6 April [1965] to James Boyle retired blacksmith. Effects £271 10s. 9d."
Will let you know if I get any more information.
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Hi Aghadowey. Thank you so much for your help. I am going to attach a photo that was taken at Giants Causeway between 1919 - 1921 we believe, before Annie and James came to Australia. From left it is Annie, James McOwan at back and on right is my Nana, Margaret McClosky/Bonnyman. We dont know who the woman in the middle is? May be Sarah Blair ?
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Hi Aghadowey. Re the feasibility or otherwise of the McCloskey girls attending Culcrow school. In my notes I see that I have said that Sarah and Maggie Blair names are also listed as attending this school - but I have just thought, that is strange, because Blair is Sarah's married name as per the 1911 census .... did Sarah Blair marry a John Blair? :-\
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Hi,
There was indeed a marriage of a Sarah Blair to a John Blair. It took place on 11 Feb 1891 in Woods Chalel Church of Ireland, Magherafelt District.
Regards
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According to their grand-daughter, John Blair (a Presbyterian from Finvoy, Co. Antrim) married Sarah O'Kane (a Catholic from Agivey area). The marriage took place 6 Sept.1900 Coleraine district according to GRONI index.
Going back to the school register- what religion were the Blair children you found & what was their father's occupation?
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Hi,
The marriage which Aghadowey mentioned took place on 6 Sept 1900 in Coleraine Roman Catholic Church, Killowen, Coleraine. The bride's name is listed as Sarah Jane O'Kane.
Regards
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Here's John & Sarah Blair in 1901 living with the O'Kanes-
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Agivey/Mullaghmore/1516326/
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Hi Aghadowey. On board again. I must say I am confused with the Sarah Blair's. The notes that I have taken from the school register, have not recorded the Blair children's religion. Just that they were listed as Sarah Blair and Maggie Blair and because Sarah Blair's name was familiar to me from Nana and the family stories. The Sarah Blair in the Culcrow Register can't have been Sarah O'Kane. I dont know which one they knew ... except when I was in Ireland in 2005 when I visited Granny in Ireland's cottage in Agivey, the neighbours pointed to a nearby house which was the Blair's, so I gathered from that they were near neighbours. I know that Nana and Aunt Annie stayed with Sarah Blair when they visited Ireland in 1938. On that occasion ... The story is told that in 1938 when they were visiting Agivey and staying with Sarah Blair, Aunt Annie woke one morning and insisted they had to leave because, 'there was death in the house'. She insisted they leave straightaway, so Maggie agreed. Not long after they got to Glasgow a telegram arrived to say Sarah Blair had died in the bed in which they had been sleeping. ...... Did Sarah Blair's grand-daughter have any photos or recollections of Annie McCloskey (Murray/McOwan) or Maggie McCloskey (Bonnyman) ?
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PS :-\ Did the Grandaughter believe the unknown woman in the photo I sent was Sarah Blair ?