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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: Tim Brayshaw on Friday 17 October 14 14:09 BST (UK)
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It started with this record...
Name: John William Overall
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 12 Jul 1818
Father's Name: John Overall
Mother's name: Frances Overall
Parish or Poor Law Union: Bermondsey St Mary Magdalene
Borough: Southwark
Register Type: Parish Registers
This gentleman went on to marry, as far as i can tell, a Sarah Butcher in 1840; but i am trying to find his parent's marriage.
Can anyone help?
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Other baptism to same couple on same date
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J398-G61
Also - seems strange to have 2 John's so I suspect the 1818 John perhaps died
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NYJZ-THY
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NLYC-NZ4
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Have you already discounted the marriage in 1814 on Family Search?
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Have you already discounted the marriage in 1814 on Family Search?
I saw the Frances Hammenden one, but as i saw that i actually noticed the thing you have previously posted about. (The double John's)
My John lives in Bermondsey for three census records, and then passes away in Hackney by the looks of it in 1887. He consistently mentions his birth date as 1818 and in London, Middlesex.
However, he never mentions his middle name of William, so i am starting to doubt this now.
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I have just spotted something rather odd.
I have John Overall's marriage certificate, but never could see what the father's name was on there because it was so faint and completely unreadable.
18th June 1840 in St Botolph John Overall is marked as 'Of Age' and Sarah Butcher is marked as 'Of Age' on my certificate. John Overall is down as a Hosier.
However, i have just done a search and found the digital scan of the records and Sarah Butcher is 'Minor' on it...and you can see John Overall's father as William Overall and Sarah's as Henry Butcher.
I can not read their father's occupations.
I have also not found them on the 1841 or 1851 census but have them by the looks of it in 1861. Sarah Butcher was born 1821/1822 in Folkestone. I'm rather confused now.
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I see what you mean about the marriage cert - doesn't help that the transcription is Averall
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I see what you mean about the marriage cert - doesn't help that the transcription is Averall
It has sent me into a little confusion where earlier i was almost certain of my findings. I think the first stage is to try and find the family on the 1841 and 1851 census for further clues. 1861 is the first time i can see them even though the marriage is in 1840.
Possibly some clues towards why the parish register says Minor and the RO has Of Age on there.
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I have just been looking at Overall baptisms and there appears to be 2 families headed by John & Sarah Overall who were baptising children in Bermondsey.
I was just transcribing them assuming they were yours when I noticed that 2 of the actual birthdates were only 4mths apart in 1848.
A John & Sarah Overall baptised the following children all on the same date - 25.7.1860 at Bermondsey St Mary Magdalene. That John was a matmaker and address was Brunswick Court
Sarah b 22.4.1848
Fanny b 1.12.1851
Louisa b 20.7.1853
On 13.7.1856 a John & Sarah Overall baptised 2 children at Christ Church Bermondsey. Address 25 Parish St Horsleydown and occ Fellowship porter
Ann Elizabeth b 18.6.1850
William b 18.8.1848
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I have found John and Sarah in 1851. If you are using Ancestry they are transcribed as Sonall!
They are in St John Horsleydown and have 3 children.
Ref is HO 107 1559 f 500.
Barbara
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In 1841 John and Sarah are in New Street, Bermondsey. No children. At that time John is still a hosier.
HO107/1049/3 f 47
Barbara
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Did you get Sarah's maiden name from one of their childrens birth certs? There is an 1849 marriage to a Sarah Standerwick - both were unmarried previously
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I have just been looking at Overall baptisms and there appears to be 2 families headed by John & Sarah Overall who were baptising children in Bermondsey.
I was just transcribing them assuming they were yours when I noticed that 2 of the actual birthdates were only 4mths apart in 1848.
A John & Sarah Overall baptised the following children all on the same date - 25.7.1860 at Bermondsey St Mary Magdalene. That John was a matmaker and address was Brunswick Court
Sarah b 22.4.1848
Fanny b 1.12.1851
Louisa b 20.7.1853
On 13.7.1856 a John & Sarah Overall baptised 2 children at Christ Church Bermondsey. Address 25 Parish St Horsleydown and occ Fellowship porter
Ann Elizabeth b 18.6.1850
William b 18.8.1848
I can tell you 100% that my William Overall (1848 birth) is the one baptised by John and Sarah on 13/07/1956.
I can trace him back from Sheffield census 1871 to 1861 with his parents and his father (John) on that 1861 census is down as Fellowship porter so that definitely matches.
The question is now, is my John and Sarah, John Overall and Sarah Butcher or not?
Many thanks for all of your help so far!
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I have found John and Sarah in 1851. If you are using Ancestry they are transcribed as Sonall!
They are in St John Horsleydown and have 3 children.
Ref is HO 107 1559 f 500.
Barbara
In 1841 John and Sarah are in New Street, Bermondsey. No children. At that time John is still a hosier.
HO107/1049/3 f 47
Barbara
Thank you for both of those! I will try and find them myself in a moment to add them to my sources.
Did you get Sarah's maiden name from one of their childrens birth certs? There is an 1849 marriage to a Sarah Standerwick - both were unmarried previously
Do you know what, I didn't, i stupidly was following the line of Butcher because it seemed to make sense at the time. Maybe i should follow the Standerwick line at the same time to see which one makes more sense!
EDIT: Would that mean that William was out of wedlock?
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1851 census shows William as 4yrs old whereas if he was b 18.8.1848 he would only be 2yrs old at the time of the 1851 census
Also - Sarah is shown as b Middlesex - not Kent
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1851 census shows William as 4yrs old whereas if he was b 18.8.1848 he would only be 2yrs old at the time of the 1851 census
Also - Sarah is shown as b Middlesex - not Kent
In 1861 this is the record for the family i know is definitely mine;
Name: Sarah Overall
Age: 39
Born: 1822
Spouse: John Overall
Where born: Folkestone, Kent, England
Name Age
John Overall 42
Sarah Overall 39
William Overall 14
Sarah Overall 12
Ann E Overall 10
Fanny Overall 9
Louisa Overall 7
EDIT: William's father has exactly the same occupation title on this census record as of that on the parish baptism record in 1856.
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I wonder if his birthyear has been incorrectly entered as 1848 on the parish register instead of 1846?
Births September qtr 1846
William Overall Rotherhithe 4 427
No entry for 1848
As a precaution - I would order Louisa's birth cert
Births September qtr 1853
Louisa Overall St Olave 1d 43
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1851 census shows William as 4yrs old whereas if he was b 18.8.1848 he would only be 2yrs old at the time of the 1851 census
Also - Sarah is shown as b Middlesex - not Kent
I think on the 1851 census there is an error with whoever wrote it out. If you look across from William Overall it says Folkestone, Kent. I think the birthplaces for William and his mum have been switched around.
I wonder why Sarah wasn't baptised at the same time as William and Ann Elizabeth in 1856?
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I have just been looking at Overall baptisms and there appears to be 2 families headed by John & Sarah Overall who were baptising children in Bermondsey.
I was just transcribing them assuming they were yours when I noticed that 2 of the actual birthdates were only 4mths apart in 1848.
A John & Sarah Overall baptised the following children all on the same date - 25.7.1860 at Bermondsey St Mary Magdalene. That John was a matmaker and address was Brunswick Court
Sarah b 22.4.1848
Fanny b 1.12.1851
Louisa b 20.7.1853
On 13.7.1856 a John & Sarah Overall baptised 2 children at Christ Church Bermondsey. Address 25 Parish St Horsleydown and occ Fellowship porter
Ann Elizabeth b 18.6.1850
William b 18.8.1848
Is the family in bold in your quote above the 1841 census find you discovered, and the other family mentioned in your quote the family related to me?
As you have said they can't be the same family, but the Fellowship porter one is definitely mine by the looks of it.
Did you get Sarah's maiden name from one of their childrens birth certs? There is an 1849 marriage to a Sarah Standerwick - both were unmarried previously
What are the details of this marriage? Are there any clues towards the families?
I think i chose the Butcher as the line to follow because there was, (possibly coincidently) a Sarah Butcher record...
Name: Sar Butcher
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 26 Jul 1820
Christening Place: FOLKESTONE,KENT,ENGLAND
Father's Name: Hen Butcher
Mother's Name: Sar
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Between 1856-1860 John could have changed occupations. What I am not happy about is the gap between an 1840 marriage and a first birth in 1846 although there could have been others who died in between
There are several Overall infant burials between 1841-1851 in Bermondsey etc but no way of knowing who the parents were
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William & Frances Overall baptised a Mary Ann in 1823 - Williams occ was Bellows maker
Mary Ann Overall married in 1855 and marriage cert shows father William and occ bellows maker. One of the witnesses was Henry Overall
The 1840 marriage cert does not show William as a Bellows maker
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William & Frances Overall baptised a Mary Ann in 1823 - Williams occ was Bellows maker
Mary Ann Overall married in 1855 and marriage cert shows father William and occ bellows maker. One of the witnesses was Henry Overall
The 1840 marriage cert does not show William as a Bellows maker
Well this is interesting because on the marriage certificate of John and Sarah it says William Overall as the father of John.
However, when i search for John's baptism in 1818 i found a John Overall as his father and Frances as his mother. What you have found seems to be a combination.
What was John's father's name?
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I think i have found the problem. There are two Overall families in London again causing me an issue.
a William and Frances
and
a John and Frances.
I think it is almost positive that my Sarah is Sarah Butcher which would make William and Frances the parent's of John.
This points me towards this baptism from familysearch...
Name: John Overell
Christening: 05 Dec 1819 ST MARY WHITECHAPEL,STEPNEY,LONDON,ENGLAND
Father's Name: William Overell
Mother's Name: Frances
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1840 marriage - John's father is William but he is not a Bellows maker. Occ difficult to read but may end in ic so possibly mechanic??
You are of the opinion that his parents were William & Frances because of the 1818 baptism. That baptism was for a John William Overall and his father William was a corn meter?? and address was Spa Rd
What I was trying to illustrate (badly) is that William & Frances had a dtr Mary Ann and her baptism and marriage cert (1855) shows William as a bellows maker which would appear that his occ was consistent from 1823 - 1855
NOW - 1841 entry for St Mary Magdalene Bermondsey shows a William Overall aged 55 occ corn meter with Sarah 54 - both born out of county (Possible second marriage)
HO107 Piece 1049/3 Folio 48 Page 30
There is a burial for a Frances Overall aged 42 on 4.5.1833 at St James Bermondsey
SO - I think there were 2 families in Bermondsey headed by a William & Frances. In one - William is a corn meter and the other a Bellows maker
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On the 1819 baptism - William is a Bellows maker
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You are of the opinion that his parents were William & Frances because of the 1818 baptism. That baptism was for a John William Overall and his father William was a corn meter?? and address was Spa Rd
The 1818 baptism is John and Frances, so i think i can discount that one entirely now, the John William Overall. I can't see where it refers to William as a corn meter, however i've just read the transcription as John and Frances.
It is going to be rather hard for me to find my William, from only the marriage certificate of John Overall and Sarah Butcher to go from, there just isn't enough information when the occupation (as you say possibly ends in 'ic') doesn't match anything else.
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NOW - 1841 entry for St Mary Magdalene Bermondsey shows a William Overall aged 55 occ corn meter with Sarah 54 - both born out of county (Possible second marriage)
HO107 Piece 1049/3 Folio 48 Page 30
I think i can make 'Cornmeter' out of the father's occupation on the marriage certificate you know, it definitely isn't Bellows Maker, im just going to run the marriage certificate through Photoshop to filter the noise out a little bit.
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I've just blown that occupation up and it's Corn Meter
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I've just blown that occupation up and it's Corn Meter
Thank you for all your help so far on this one, its a little convoluted. So which baptism am i looking at now, around 1818/1819, with a William as the father, as a Cornmeter?
Many Thanks again.
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Yes - as long as you are sure about the 1840 marriage being the right one - then John's father was William occ corn meter and his mother was Frances
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Just remembered - the 1841 entry shows
John William as born out of county so marriage could be anywhere
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Yes - as long as you are sure about the 1840 marriage being the right one - then John's father was William occ corn meter and his mother was Frances
I'm not sure about Frances being the mother now.
The 1818 baptism isnt the one because that shows the parents as John and Frances. (Not William)
The 1819 baptism isn't the one because that shows the father as a Bellows Maker.
I am currently looking at this one...
Name: John Overall
Birth: 9 May 1817
Baptism 31 Aug 1817 St. Giles Cripplegate, London, England
Father: William Overall
Mother: Sarah
Then that matches the William Overall on the 1841 census you found as a Cornmeter, and not Sarah as a second marriage, but the mother of William. I'm just trying to find a digital scan so i can look at further information.
It's not the above, father's occupation was Baker. Still confused :P
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Just remembered - the 1841 entry shows John as born out of county so marriage could be anywhere
Strange because 1851-1881 he consitently says he is born in London.
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Not sure that this will help or confuse more but there is a baptism of a Sarah Butcher in Folkestone with father Henry
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NTPC-98M
In 1841 John was living in Bermondsey Surrey. If he had been born in Middlesex or the city of London he would say quite correctly that he wasn't born in county.
I think you really need to buy at least one of the birth certificates of the children to clarify who Sarah the mother was. Like Carol I am concerned at the lack of children between 1840 and 1846/8.
If you tie John down as the son of William the Baker there is a will for William and Freedom of the City Admission papers for both William and John on Ancestry.
Barbara
Barbara
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Not sure that this will help or confuse more but there is a baptism of a Sarah Butcher in Folkestone with father Henry
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NTPC-98M
In 1841 John was living in Bermondsey Surrey. If he had been born in Middlesex or the city of London he would say quite correctly that he wasn't born in county.
I think you really need to buy at least one of the birth certificates of the children to clarify who Sarah the mother was. Like Carol I am concerned at the lack of children between 1840 and 1846/8.
If you tie John down as the son of William the Baker there is a will for William and Freedom of the City Admission papers for both William and John on Ancestry.
Barbara
Barbara
Yeah, i have that Sarah Butcher baptism in Folkestone. That should be correct if i can solidify a few things. I will purchase a child's birth certificate at payday i think to clarify the 'Butcher' mother.
The other is to find John's baptism, because there just isn't an entry that i can see anywhere for a John Overall around 1818/1819 with a father as William Occ: Cornmeter. I can see a John William Overall 1818 with father as John Overall Occ: Cornmeter. So Close.
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Sorry - I confused things with a typo here - I have amended it above but for John - read William occ corn meter who was born out of county on the 1841 entry
Just remembered - the 1841 entry shows John as born out of county so marriage could be anywhere
Strange because 1851-1881 he consitently says he is born in London.
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That has to be the father on the 1841 census then, I'm just wondering if on John William Overall (1818) baptism, where it shows John Overall the cornmeter as the father, if William Overall born out of county on the 1841 census went by John William as well, that would solve my current conundrum.
Because as it stands, on the baptism John's father is John the cornmeter, and on his marraige certificate his father is William the cornmeter.
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I have never come across the occupation Corn Meter before so be thankful William wasn't a labourer on the 1840 marriage cert ;D
That 1818 baptism takes us back to his mother being Frances and on the same day as John was baptised - they also baptised a daughter Frances shown as born 1.5.1815
Frances possibly married James Fordham in 1835 but fathers names were not shown on marriage entries pre-1837
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I have never come across the occupation Corn Meter before so be thankful William wasn't a labourer on the 1840 marriage cert ;D
That 1818 baptism takes us back to his mother being Frances and on the same day as John was baptised - they also baptised a daughter Frances shown as born 1.5.1815
Frances possibly married James Fordham in 1835 but fathers names were not shown on marriage entries pre-1837
Mother would be Frances, but the father as John on that record with residence as Spa Road. Just wondering if it would be likely a John and a William Overall would be both Corn Meters and have different families...and coincidently a John Overall born in the same year.
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I have never come across the occupation Corn Meter before so be thankful William wasn't a labourer on the 1840 marriage cert ;D
Very true! Apparently, a cornmeter is just someone who measures out corn, at say, a market. First for everything.
These are all the children from John and Frances (partially ignoring the fact he should be called William)
Frances Overall 12 July 1818 SAINT MARY MAGDALENE,BERMONDSEY,LONDON,ENGLAND
father: John Overall
mother: Frances
John William Overall 12 July 1818 SAINT MARY MAGDALENE,BERMONDSEY,LONDON,ENGLAND
father: John Overall
mother: Frances
Ann Overall 19 June 1822 SAINT MARY MAGDALENE,BERMONDSEY,LONDON,ENGLAND
father: John Overall
mother: Frances
John Overall 20 June 1828 SAINT MARY MAGDALENE,BERMONDSEY,LONDON,ENGLAND
father: John Overall
mother: Frances
Then with William and Frances (the Bellow maker?) I remember you mentioning earlier there were two William and Frances',one as a bellow maker and one as a cornmeter - where is that couple?
Mary Ann Overall 25 October 1823 ST MARY WHITECHAPEL,STEPNEY,LONDON,ENGLAND
father: William Overall
mother: Frances
Henry Overell 19 December 1825 / 21 May 1826 ST BOTOLPH WITHOUT ALDGATE,LONDON,LONDON,ENGLAND
father: William Overell
mother: Frances
Frances Overell 15 December 1830 / 20 February 1831 ST BOTOLPH WITHOUT ALDGATE,LONDON,LONDON,ENGLAND
father: William Overell
mother: Frances
Frances Overell 6 January 1822 ST MARY WHITECHAPEL,STEPNEY,LONDON,ENGLAND
father: William Overell
mother: Frances
John Overell 5 December 1819 ST MARY WHITECHAPEL,STEPNEY,LONDON,ENGLAND
father: William Overell
mother: Frances
Eliza Overell 18 May 1828 ST BOTOLPH WITHOUT ALDGATE,LONDON,LONDON,ENGLAND
father: William Overell
mother: Frances
William Overell 26 April 1818 ST MARY WHITECHAPEL,STEPNEY,LONDON,ENGLAND
father: William Overell
mother: Frances
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What I cannot understand is why John (corn meter) and Frances would have a son John William in 1818 and then call another son John 10yrs later in 1828??
If I have the right 1841 for William (corn meter) he should have 13yr old John living with him but the only other occupants are a Bolton family. Sarah Overall married John Bolton in 1835
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I thought i would throw together this list, this is every birth in the London area called Overall/Overell between 1810-1830 ,with William as the father and Frances as the mother;
William Overell
26 Apr 1818 Whitechapel St Mary - Father's Occupation - 'Bellows Maker'
William Overell
22 Apr 1818 Whitechapel St Mary - Father's Occupation - 'Bellows Maker'
John Overell
5 Dec 1819 Whitechapel St Mary - Father's Occupation - 'Bellows Maker'
Frances Overell
6 Jan 1822 Whitechapel St Mary - Father's Occupation - 'Bellows Maker'
Mary Ann Overall
25 Oct 1823 Whitechapel St Mary - Father's Occupation - 'Bellows Maker'
Henry Overell
21 May 1826 St Botolph, Aldgate - Father's Occupation - 'Bellows Maker'
Eliza Overell
18 May 1828 St Botolph, Aldgate - Father's Occupation - 'Bellows Maker'
Frances Overell
20 Feb 1831 St Botolph, Aldgate - Father's Occupation - 'Bellows Maker'
James Overell
3 Nov 1833 St Botolph, Aldgate - Father's Occupation - 'Bellows Maker'
Elizabeth Overell
1 Jul 1840 St Botolph, Aldgate - Father's Occupation - 'Bellows Maker'
So Basically, there is not a single Overall/Overell birth where the father is a William and is a Corn Meter.
What I cannot understand is why John (corn meter) and Frances would have a son John William in 1818 and then call another son John 10yrs later in 1828??
If I have the right 1841 for William (corn meter) he should have 13yr old John living with him but the only other occupants are a Bolton family. Sarah Overall married John Bolton in 1835
I am more and more believing because now the William's above in my list are not turning out hopeful that John is the father, and goes by both John and William. This might explain why they believe John and John William to be different selection of names for boys?
Here are the Overall/Overells to John and Frances;
Frances Overall
12 Jul 1818 Bermondsey St Mary Magdalene - Father's Occupation - 'Corn Meter'
John William Overall
12 Jul 1818 Bermondsey St Mary Magdalene - Father's Occupation - 'Corn Meter'
Ann Overall
19 Jun 1822 Bermondsey St Mary Magdalene - Father's Occupation - 'Corn Meter'
John Overall
20 Jun 1828 Bermondsey St Mary Magdalene - Father's Occupation - 'Corn Meter'
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But everything rests on the 1840 marriage being the right one? If the 1853 birth cert for Louisa shows Sarah as nee Butcher - then the 1840 marriage is correct. If it doesn't - then it's back to the drawing board
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I have just been having another look at this and have found 2 PCC wills one for a William Overall in 1852 and one for a John Overall in 1842. Both lived in Bermondsey and both were cornmeters. Both mention a son John.
William Overall also names in his will his eldest son William and his daughter Sarah the wife of John Bolton. He must be the William living at Parkers Row in 1851 and a widower. In 1841 he is in Cross Street with Sarah, presumably his wife, and the Bolton family. William and Sarah both of Parkers Row were buried in Bermondsey.
Just to confuse matters even more there is a Willam Overall a Baker who is in Queens Bench Prison in 1841 and in St George Street in 1851. His wife is Elizabeth. This William is buried in 1851 in Bermondsey.
Even more essential that you get the birth certificate!
Barbara
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I have just been having another look at this and have found 2 PCC wills one for a William Overall in 1852 and one for a John Overall in 1842. Both lived in Bermondsey and both were cornmeters. Both mention a son John.
William Overall also names in his will his eldest son William and his daughter Sarah the wife of John Bolton. He must be the William living at Parkers Row in 1851 and a widower. In 1841 he is in Cross Street with Sarah, presumably his wife, and the Bolton family. William and Sarah both of Parkers Row were buried in Bermondsey.
Just to confuse matters even more there is a Willam Overall a Baker who is in Queens Bench Prison in 1841 and in St George Street in 1851. His wife is Elizabeth. This William is buried in 1851 in Bermondsey.
Even more essential that you get the birth certificate!
Barbara
Thankyou for having a look at this one. Where can I find the will of William Overall who was a Cornmeter? That sounds good to me....i should have a birth certificate in a few weeks.
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The wills of both William and John are on ancestry in the PCC wills collection. Alternatively both are available for download from the National Archives
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D28957
and
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D117082
I am finding the whole Overall family fascinating.
Barbara
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HO107/ 1524/276 p 8
1851 census for William Overall , transcribed as OSERELL
William a Bellows maker born Stepney , aged 57 wife Frances born Norfolk aged 53, daughters Eliza and Frances aged 22 and 21 both born Aldgate
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William Overall the Bellows maker dies in 1863 , probate of his will granted to John Overall Bellows maker , and Henry Overall, baker sons of deceased
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The wills of both William and John are on ancestry in the PCC wills collection. Alternatively both are available for download from the National Archives
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D28957
and
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D117082
I am finding the whole Overall family fascinating.
Barbara
Thank you for those, the answer is getting closer and closer.
In the will for William the Cornmeter he mentions William, John and Sarah. However i can not seem to find any of their births at all.
When you find William Overall the Cornmeter on the 1841 he is with what looks to be his wife Sarah as they are within 2 years of each other in age.
Then when i look back at my John Overall which i believe to be the one mentioned in the Cornmeter's will his children are;
William
Sarah
Ann Elizabeth
Fanny Margaret Susanna
Louisa
Obviously i will be sure of the John Overall Sarah Butcher marriage when i get one of their child's birth certificate, but there seems to be a strong relation there with his first two children having the same names as his mother and father.
Can anyone spot any of William, John or Sarah's baptisms? The children of William Overall the Cornmeter, and what seems to be his wife Sarah. Sarah seems to have passed away in 1849 in bermondsey, with an estimated birth year of 1786. William the cornmeter is born 1784 it seems.
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It would be wiser to wait for the birth cert before doing any more searching. We are already on page 6 of this post and are not yet 100% sure which family we are tracing.
All we know for certain is that the 1840 marriage certs shows father as William occ Corn Meter.
However - until the birth cert arrives we don't know whether that is even the right marriage.
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It would be wiser to wait for the birth cert before doing any more searching. We are already on page 6 of this post and are not yet 100% sure which family we are tracing.
All we know for certain is that the 1840 marriage certs shows father as William occ Corn Meter.
However - until the birth cert arrives we don't know whether that is even the right marriage.
Indeed, i am very impatient and as i am with many brick walls with the amount of time i have spent doing my family tree it never seems a waste of time even if it is the wrong family. There is someone with a tree on Ancestry that puts it altogether nicely, and it looks to work on my line of thinking also;
They have;
William Overall (the CornMeter by the looks of it) Born 1785 to William Overall and Sarah Hart.
he has two brothers John Overall 1789-1842 and James Overall.
My (Possible) William Overall's brother John Overall, married a Frances Hammenden and had;
Frances (1815-1867)
John William Overall (1818-1898) - The gentleman i incorrectly believed to by my John.
Ann Overall (1822)
Mary Ann Overall (1823)
Then he has John William Overall (1818-1898) marrying a Sarah Standerwich and having 12 children, two of which he has pictures for on his tree - (usually indicating it's his direct ancestry). This would make me think that he has confirmed the Sarah Standerwich marriage.
Obivously i have spent the £9.25 on the certificate now, but it seems to point to Sarah being a Butcher as it stands.
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It would be wiser to wait for the birth cert before doing any more searching. We are already on page 6 of this post and are not yet 100% sure which family we are tracing.
All we know for certain is that the 1840 marriage certs shows father as William occ Corn Meter.
However - until the birth cert arrives we don't know whether that is even the right marriage.
I have just received Fanny Margaret Susannah's birth certificate, born on the 1st December 1851 and her parents are on the certificate as John Overall and Sarah Butcher. So my initial research and hunches were correct. I think i need to re-read through this thread to see if i can take this line any further now i know it is the correct people.
EDIT:
John's father is William the Cornmeter, and mother is a Sarah. This is clarified by the will, and my post before this about the other family tree i found goes towards this. I need to try and find the births of William now who was apparently born in 1784 according to his death information. The maiden name of John's mother Sarah. The other tree i found relating to this has it down as Hart.