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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: Flouncylicious on Sunday 19 October 14 13:32 BST (UK)
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I am trying to find a marriage record or census returns from 1881, 1871, 1861 or 1851 for a Henry Gallagher born circa 1847 Barbican or London City (from census). Henry is a box/packing case maker and married Eliza born circa 1849 Bethnal Green (from census) before about 1872 from what I can see from the age of their children on the 2 census returns I do have, his profession is also consistent on marriage records for his children;
1891 - RG12 Piece 272 Folio 11 Page 17
Henry Gallagher 44
Eliza Gallagher 42
Eliza Gallagher 19
Henry Gallagher 17
Joseph Gallagher 12
Charlie Gallagher 9
Agnes Gallagher 2
Ceila (?) Gallagher 4
1901 - RG13 Piece 295 Folio 151 Page 44
Henry Gallager 54
Eliza Gallager 52
Joseph Gallager 18
Charles Gallager 14
Agnes Gallager 12
I thought I had found him, but it turns out there is another Henry Gallagher (occ. Hatter) with wife Eliza (nee Gill) of the same age who had children with some of the same names around the same ages just to muddy the waters ???
Any help on this will be most gratefully received as my brain is beginning to melt :-[
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Is there an example of both families being around at the same time? ie in a particular census year?
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Thanks for the reply Milliepede.
With the census not that I can find. I discovered that they are 2 separate families when I found parish marriage records for their son's (both called Henry Gallagher) in the same year (1900). One specifying Hatter as the father's occupation and the other packing case maker.
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Thanks, I'm just looking at baptisms for children of Henry & Eliza and so far have only found one with father packing case maker - Lilian 5 March 1899 father Henry John Gallagher.
All the others have occupation hatter.
Another one with packing case maker father Henry John.
Child Henry John born 14 May 1901 bap 30 Jun 1901.
Apologies those parents are too young to be yours sorry for muddying your water :-[
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Thanks so much for looking, it's been driving me mad and I was beginning to wonder if there was something I wasn't seeing; but it appears not as you have reached the same conclusions.
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I've got myself in a tangle with it already!
I see the two marriages in 1900 with father Henry different occupations.
There must be two separate census for each family, just a matter of tracking them down :D
Maybe the two sons called Henry can be traced backwards but I'm sure you've already tried that :(
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I've tried tracking back with several children. I have 1891 & 1901 for Henry (box maker) and 1881 & 1871 for Henry (hatter). I have yet to find them on the same census.
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I can't see them both on any one census either ::)
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For the two Henry's marrying in 1900
As you already know, the one in Bethnal Green is your family.
The other one, in Islington, is for Henry Charles Gallagher born c.1878 in Sothwark.
He's on the 1901 in Hitchin with his wife Rebecca.
In 1881 he's in Clerkenwell with:
Henry Gallagher - 40 - hat manufacturer - born Southwark and
So it looks like all the baptisms in Rutland Court and Glasshouse Road are for your family
Catherine Gallagher - 37
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Hmm - lines somehow got muddled above. Hope you can read it okay.
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is it any help that henry g. and wife eliza with children hannah and mary in 1881 are on familysearch as Gallagor in 1871.
mike
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Thanks everyone for taking the time to look for me :)
Lily the Henry Gallagher on the 1881 census you have found isn't either of the ones I've been trying to separate, so we have yet another Henry Gallagher who's in hats in the mix! With regards to baptisms anything in any location where the father's occupation is anything to do with hats is the wrong Gallaghers.
Mike I haven't tried Gallagor yet, I shall go do that now.
Once again thank you
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There is an on line tree with a picture of Agnes and her marriage in Poplar 1909 to Robert Charles Gledhill.
Jennifer
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Thanks Jennifer and also apologies I should've mentioned in my original post that every family tree I've seen for my Henry Gallagher (box maker) has the wrong marriage included (Henry Gallagher, hatter marrying Eliza Gill - 1868 Bethnal Green).
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Do you have the birth certificates for any of Henry and Eliza's children? I'm just wondering how you know he wasn't a hatter before 1891.
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I know he wasn't a hatter because of his occupation on the marriage certs of his children. Most telling is in 1900 both families had sons called Henry who both got married - one father's occupation hatter the other box maker, so I could see that the family on the censuses for 1871 & 1881 and the marriage I had for the parents was for an entirely different family even though certain parts of it matched.
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But did any of the children get married before 1891?
It's just that so many things seem to point that way.
Eliza Gills was born 1848 in Bethnal Green. Same as your Henry's wife. And there's a baptism for a Joseph Gallagher 1881 in Rutland Court. Which is in Aldersgate. Which matches the 1891 census.
But I'll admit that it's a very confusing family, as they don't seem to know when they were born.
There's also an awful lot of hatters with the name Gallagher dotted about at the time!
The other Henry you found getting married in 1900 in Islington, was the one I posted above, who was born in Southwark. With father - yes - Henry, a hatter. That Henry is living with his parents in Clerkenwell in the 1881
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Not before 1891 but the point I was trying to make (and obviously I'm making badly) is that it is that the family of hatters who share the same named children with similar ages have a son Henry marrying in 1900 as well as my box maker's Henry, so that means the censuses I have for 1871 & 1881 are not the same family as the ones in 1891 & 1901. I'm not saying Henry Gallagher was always a box maker I'm just saying that I've proved that the census returns I have for 1871 & 1881 with the similar children are not the same family as 1881 & 1891. I'm really sorry if I'm not making sense I just don't know another way to explain it.
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I'm sure you're talking perfect sense. It's just that this family is beginning to addle all our brains ::)
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Which other marriage in 1900 are you thinking of? Is it the Henry Charles Gallagher who married Rebecca Goodship?
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Yes the two marriages are
15 April 1900 Henry b 1874 father Henry case maker
1 October 1900 Henry Charles b 1878 father Henry hatter
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Lily I have now seen the original parish record of the marriage you're talking about, rather than a (slighty dodgy grrrrr) transcription and I see exactly what you mean (apologies), and the Henry Gallagher is in fact another completely different one related to the Southwark Gallaghers (his age was transcribed totally wrong making me him link with my Gallaghers). Because of this I have just gone through every marriage on the parish records I could find (taken me all evening) for both families on the censuses I originally had. I now have discovered that one of men who married a 'hatter' daughter also witnessed a ' box maker' wedding. His name was Charles Waver so I'm thinking it's not coincidence. It's amazing how much one dodgy piece of information can turn your brain to mush. I apologise for torturing you all with this and thank you for your time and patience.
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Pleased you've sorted it out now.
I know what you mean about the GRO certificates. I spent years looking for my gt.grandfather, until the original certificate came on line and I could see they had transcribed the wrong name!