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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Durham => England => Durham Lookup Requests => Topic started by: eyshame on Sunday 19 October 14 13:56 BST (UK)
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Found the birth of a Thomas Kavanagh registered in Stockton Oct/Dec 1864 10a 7052. Can anyone find Parish Baptismal record for him please as really need to know his mother's maiden name.
Any help so appreciated. Census say he was born Spennymoor and he was Catholic but don't know which church he would have been baptised in.
Very many thanks in advance for any help given.
E.
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Found the birth of a Thomas Kavanagh registered in Stockton Oct/Dec 1864 10a 7052.
The birth certificate should give his mother's maiden name :)
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Yes but the parish records give more information and I need to know it is my Thomas before I buy the cert - which I will be more than happy to do once I know I have the right Thomas.
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How will you know when you have found the 'right' Thomas?
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I know his father was named John and was a Miner and he was born in 1864in Spennymoor. I am not sure if there are others of the same name but I know that name is quite common. and given that the price of cert is not cheap I want to make as sure as possible before I buy, also the parish records give more info than a cert.
A look up would help me, I am sure.
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This thread should be read in conjunction with this one:-
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=701913.0
The GRO entry is Thomas Cavanagh D1864 Stockton 10a 70. Freebmd have him indexed as Avanagh as the initial C has not been printed on the index page, though is in correct alphabetical order under the C's.
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Tillypeg, thank you so very much. No wonder I have never found him. Fingers crossed. I am doing the happy dance now. Will let you know when I can. THANK YOU, THANK YOU THANK YOU.
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Tillypeg, did you happen to find a John Cavanagh for 1870 born Ferry Hill? This would be Thomas' brother and he hasn't been found either as can be seen in the other thread. Maybe with a K or like Thomas maybe the K or C has been missed off too.
Maybe now I can find out Thomas' mother's maiden name.
Thank you for your time, i so appreciate it.
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http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/stockton.html
This shows the places that the Stockton GRO district covers - Low Spennymoor is included.
However Spennymoor is in the Auckland district
http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/auckland.html
As the birth place changes from census to census, it will be difficult to pinpoint a church where a baptism could have taken place.
Before you order a birth certificate, it may be possible to email the local Register Office concerned and ask them to confirm if the child's father's name was John. For my own research, I have done that with Darlington & Middlesbrough Reg Offices before.
Perhaps someone reading this could suggest the correct Register Office in your case, rather than ordering the cert from the GRO itself.
Good luck. Haven't looked for John - people here asking why I haven't started making tea yet! ;)
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The search for Thomas Kavanagh goes on without any success yet again. Of late I have tried to focus on John Kavanagh, his brother, born Ferry Hill Co Durham in 1870 and again no luck. I have contacted the Durham Reg. office and a couple of churches but no one seems to know what churches were around in that area and year. Being Irish Catholics and no Catholic church in Ferry Hill where would they have gone to baptise the child? I have been told they would have used an Anglican church or travelled but what would have been the nearest Catholic church to Ferry Hill at that time? I am following John in the hopes of finding out mother's maiden name which, fingers crossed may help in my search. Whether or not I ever find his grave is looking more and more unlikely.
Any help would be so appreciated.
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The search for Thomas Kavanagh goes on without any success yet again.
What information was on the birth certificate for Thomas Cavanagh that tillypeg found for you? (reply #5)
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Durham Record Office have a guide to what Roman Catholic Registers they hold, which may help, see
5) ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH REGISTERS http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ggd/ you can see what churches there are and what dates the registers cover. The nearest to Ferryhill appears to be Bishop Auckland, St. Wilfrid 1849-2005.
Stan
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what would have been the nearest Catholic church to Ferry Hill at that time?
Currently Ferryhill is in the Deanery of St William, Bishop Auckland. This link shows a list of the other churches in that Deanery. Click on the map link to see their geographical location.
http://www.rcdhn.org.uk/churches07/churchdeanery2.php?did=15
Nearby is the Deanery of St Cuthbert and there are one or two churches there not too far from Ferryhill
http://www.rcdhn.org.uk/churches07/churchdeanery2.php?did=12
I suggest you go systematically through the churches, starting with the nearest to Ferryhill, in conjunction with the list on the link Stan has provided, which shows the date when the churches were established. This way you can eliminate some of them.
Bear in mind that Janis has already done lookups for three churches for you
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=701913.msg5455174#msg5455174
This won't account, though , for any churches that have been closed :-\
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Very many thanks to you both, I will do as you both suggest.
I must look at the link where Janis has looked up tree churches, I don't recall that so need to refresh my memory, been a while now.
Many thanks again.
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Did you send for the birth certificate for Thomas Cavanagh mentioned by tillypeg in reply #5 of this thread?
If not you can make an enquiry about it to Stockton Register Office: tell them what you already know about 'your' Thomas (e.g. his father's name and occupation and his mother's christian name) and they might be able to tell you if this birth is a likely one. https://www.stockton.gov.uk/Register-Office/Enquiry/births/51449
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If he was born at Ferryhill any birth cert would be held by Bishop Auckland Register Office.
Cornforth/Coxhoe RC church is a possible place for baptism.
Jay
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If he was born at Ferryhill any birth cert would be held by Bishop Auckland Register Office.
Cornforth/Coxhoe RC church is a possible place for baptism.
John was, according to the censuses, born in Ferryhill 1870.
Thomas was possibly born in Stockton R.D., in 1864 and this was the birth I enqured about in my previous reply.
You had also suggested Cornforth/Coxhoe and Sedgefield as potential baptism places for John on this thread (where you said Ferryhill was in Stockton R.D. :-\)
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=701913.msg5449747#msg5449747
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Hadn't realised I'd already replied on another thread.
Whilst Ferryhill was in Stockton district the records were transferred & Bishop Auckland RO have them & are the one to contact.
Jay
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Hadn't realised I'd already replied on another thread.
There are several overlapping threads on this topic ;) these are two recent ones
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=701913.msg5449108#msg5449108
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=734407.msg5797899#msg5797899
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I have contacted several relevant places to date without success. I have telephoned Bishop Auckland Registra and Durham as well as the archives there all without success.
Both Bishop Auckland and Durham and Stockton registras' all report no Thomas or John Kavanagh of any spelling for those dates.
This is definitely a mystery case. In once census record Thomas is said to have been born in Wrexham then in Spennymoor in the net census, I cannot find him in either after telephoning, e-mailing and writing to the relevant places - hence my confusion. This is why I was hoping to find John but again no luck.
I am beginning to think only an expert can solve this one as no one has been able to so far but it does prove an interesting case. Shame Miss Marple isn't around now or Jessica Fletcher, I sure could use their help.
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An 'expert' only has access to the same records & information that everyone else has so i'm not sure how helpful employing one would be. If the records aren't there to be found then there's not much you can do about that.
Good luck with your searches.
Jay
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I wasn't meaning to employ anyone - couldn't afford that. I just meant it is such a mysterious case. How these people cannot be found is a big mystery and I have been searching for some years now.
I am going through churches' in the area and illuminating those that do not fit the right year or faith so see what is left then investigate those ones but I am getting stuck.
There are no records for them in 1861 that I have ever found so I am presuming they didn't come here until the middle to late 1860's as the 1871 census is the first record I can find. I have searched electoral rolls too and mining records at Durham as all three men were miners, father and two sons. not sure what else I can search apart from the churches.
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Both Bishop Auckland and Durham and Stockton registras' all report no Thomas or John Kavanagh of any spelling for those dates.
But there is a Thomas Cavanagh born Stockton in 1864, which Tillypeg told you about. I have asked you about this a couple of times (replies #10, #14 and #16) but you haven't responded.
I gave you a link to an enquiry about him (see quote below) Have you tried it? There is no harm in at least asking.
Did you send for the birth certificate for Thomas Cavanagh mentioned by tillypeg in reply #5 of this thread?
If not you can make an enquiry about it to Stockton Register Office: tell them what you already know about 'your' Thomas (e.g. his father's name and occupation and his mother's christian name) and they might be able to tell you if this birth is a likely one. https://www.stockton.gov.uk/Register-Office/Enquiry/births/51449
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JenB, yes I phoned Stockton registras' and gave them the information I had from his marriage certificate which is only his father's name and occupation. I added the information on the 1871 and 1881 census too and the young man rang me back a few hours later and said there was no Cavanagh/Kavanagh or any other spelling of that name bon in Ferryhill in 1864.
I recall getting information about a Thomas Avanagh, the C having missed off for some reason but I cannot find that link again now and yes I recall telling them about that too but again they said no. It has been a while so maybe I could phone again. The even told me to phone Stockport where all the records are kept they told me and I did and I got the same answer - am I just unlucky and get the wrong people on the phone who either don't care or cannot be bothered to look things up properly? I have no idea but I did pursue the info. Will try to find Tillypeg's message again.
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there was no Cavanagh/Kavanagh or any other spelling of that name bon in Ferryhill in 1864.
I'm afraid I'm losing the plot here.
I thought John Kavanagh was born in Ferryhill in 1870?
Thomas Kavanagh was born in 1864. Are you now saying he was also born in Ferryhill? I though the census suggested he was born in Spennymoor?
I recall getting information about a Thomas Avanagh, the C having missed off for some reason but I cannot find that link .
Will try to find Tillypeg's message again.
Tillypeg's postings are on page 1 of this thread.
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You are not loosing the plot. John was born 1870 Ferryhill while Thomas was, supposedly, born Spennymoor 1864. I say supposedly as one census has him born in Wrexham in 1864 while the 1881 census has him born in Spennymoor.
I cannot find them after 1881 however much I have looked.
I know this is a confusing case and I sometimes get lost too.
I found Tillypegs reply and I recall giving that info to the registras and it was still a no.
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Not sure if I am to continue in this thread or start a new one but I am sure someone will be able to tell me if I am doing this wrong.
Had an e-mail about a Thomas Cavana born in Blaydon, no idea of year as I don't know how to read these census records as yet. As I cannot seem to attach the census record to show I can say that the census is numbered as RG11/4947 and it lists Thomas Cavana as a visitor with another Thomas listed underneath the first Thomas, however this second Thomas has no surname only ?nR written in place of surname.
This may throw a spanner in the works. I cannot look further as I do not know the date of this census to look up a birth - can anyone help please? This Thomas may be visiting an uncle or other relation.
This is the first time I have known of a Thomas Cavana born in this area. Since the census is in Lanchester and my Thomas was married there it may prove interesting if I can follow it up.
Thanks for any help.
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As some on this list will recall I have been looking for a Thomas Kavanagh (spelling may differ) for many years now without any success at all.
Thomas’ story seems complicated and confusing, certainly to me. The family first appears on the 1871 census living at Tow Law Co Durham. In 1881 they are living at Crook Co Durham. There is no trace of them after that date that I have found.
On the 1871 census Thomas Kavanagh is said to have been born in Wrexham. On the 1881 census he is supposed to have been born in Spennymoor Co Durham. I have contacted the relevant registry offices via e-mail and telephone and he cannot be found on either register.
From his marriage certificate – which is all I have to prove he existed – he was born around 1867 as he lists his age as 27 on the certificate in 1894, but again this information may not be correct.
If I can find his mother’s maiden name I am thinking it may help to locate the family better however, to do this, and instead of following Thomas, which has always proved a dead end, I have been looking to follow his brother John.
John Kavanagh was born in Ferry Hill in 1870. I have followed him and that information has not changed unlike his brother. While it is believed Thomas must have died around the 1900 mark, his wife remarrying in 1902, John did not die until he was in his latter years.
I have tried to find Catholic churches near to Ferry Hill and got a list of them for that period but not being good at family history research I am missing something but no idea what so I am truly hoping the group can help me.
It is believed, or strongly suggested that as they are not listed before 1871 that they probably came over from Ireland around that time. John and Catherine Kavanagh – the parents – are listed as being Irish but no part of Ireland is listed on the two census records.
Since John was very likely born in Ferry Hill I would be very interested to find his baptismal record to find his mother’s maiden name but it is proving difficult for some reason.
There is a list of churches but I am thinking the nearest one to Ferry Hill is the most likely. I know most children got baptised at a family church but as they came from Ireland I think this unlikely so they probably baptised John at the nearest Catholic church. I also am aware that some churches has long since closed since that date but I don’t know which if any have closed. I am guessing St Andrew’s at Bishop Auckland for John’s baptismal but could be wrong.
Would anyone on the list be able to help me to find John’s mother’s maiden name please?
Maybe someone has baptismal records of some of the near-by Catholic churches.
I have also contacted Durham registry office without success so I think I have contacted all the relevant places so this list for help is my last port of call really.
I have my fingers crossed and offer my thanks for any help in advance.
Kindest regards
E.
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Ferryhill was in the Stockton registration district, and there is a John Kavanagh birth registration in 1872 for Stockton.
https://www.stockton.gov.uk/Register-Office/Search
The staff at Stockton Register Office are very helpful and I'm sure will confirm whether the parents are John and Catherine, and if so then purchasing the birth certificate will give you Catherine's maiden name.
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Very many thanks.
Wonder if I can find the nearest Catholic church to look for a baptismal record?
He is listed as being born in both 1870 and 1872 however, since he is on the 1871 census 1872 is out so I am looking for a Catholic church that would be the nearest to Ferry Hill in 1870.
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I am looking for a Catholic church that would be the nearest to Ferry Hill in 1870.
In reply #11 Stan suggested to you that the nearest would be St Wilfred, Bishop Auckland.
Have you followed up this lead?
Durham Record Office have a guide to what Roman Catholic Registers they hold, which may help, see
5) ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH REGISTERS http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ggd/ you can see what churches there are and what dates the registers cover. The nearest to Ferryhill appears to be Bishop Auckland, St. Wilfrid 1849-2005.
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Yes, I kept the list of Catholic churches and went through them one by one - again no luck. I know this is proving to be a very difficult case but I have tried on my own for many years before I knew of this forum so hoped to solve the puzzle with the help of more experienced persons.
I follow up anything and everything I am told. I think the Durham records office know the name of Thomas Kavanagh and now John Kavanagh as well as I do.
I have also tried to send mail to my local eng-durham@rootsweb.com without luck so maybe if Stan, or anyone else knows why my mail is not getting trough I would be grateful.
Many thanks for the reply.
E.