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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: veryoldgal on Wednesday 22 October 14 05:42 BST (UK)
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Hi,
I have been searching for this man for a very very very long time. His name is Joseph Christopher Columbus AKA Guiseppe Christophano Colombus. I have his marriage and death certificate and all the information about his children in Queensland.
He married Kate Beard in Queensland 23 December 1882 - he was aged 24 years at the time
He died 28 July 1914 Brisbane aged 56 years. The record states that he was born in Rome, Italy and that his father's name was Joseph Christopher Columbus.
I can find no record of him arriving in Australia and have searched every website that I can think of including Ancestry and findmypast, passenger lists, newspapers etc.
Can anyone suggest where else I can look to find this man. All suggestions are very welcome. Thank you Lesley.
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Born in Italy, would usually indicate he was not born a British Subject. Have you checked for naturalisation papers for your chap? This usually include the stated ship of arrival. On his 1914 dc, does it give any information as to how long in the colonies/states?
ADD, there's 1913 electoral roll entry for a Joseph Christopher COLUMBUS a mariner, residing Fortitude Valley Qld, so I guess if that's your chap then he had become a British Subject :)
Cheers, JM
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Boy, that was quick.
I have found a Certificate of Naturalization for Joseph Colombo who was living in Tabulam, N.S.W. in 1898. He was recorded as being 54 years old at the time and having arrived in Australia in 1876 and that he was a native of France. This matches up with a Columbus who was a ships steward working on the "City of Sydney" at the time. That is the only Certificate that I have found that comes close, but my Joseph was living in Brisbane Queensland at the time.
My Joseph is on the Electoral Roll in Brisbane for 1903, 1905 and 1913. So, he was either not from Italy at all or he did become an Australian Citizen. But, I just cannot find anything about him before his marriage to Kate.
Thank you so much for your quick reply. I am still happy for any suggestion.
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Oh, I forgot to mention that on his death certificate it states that he has lived in Queensland for about 30 years, nothing else. So I don't know if he lived in any other state in Australia or not.
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Someone else researching the family
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01e11/
Cando
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That is me on another website. It would be nice if I could find another researcher for this family. I have noticed that there are some on Ancestry but I have not renewed my subscription for that site. It looks like those researchers are stuck at exactly the same spot as me.
Thanks for looking. All suggestions are very welcome.
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Can you give us all the information you have from the marriage certificate? Were there no details of birth/parents on it? Normally this will be more accurate than the death record.
http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexsearch/keyname.aspx
shows that the man who naturalised in 1898 died in 1899 (there is an interstate estate case paper for him, district Emu Creek near Tabulam Casino). He was aka Colombini.
Perhaps a relative? (father?), perhaps a red herring.
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Hi.
He qualified to be on the Qld State Electoral Roll in 1900
Queensland State Electoral Roll 1900
The Electoral District of Fortitude Valley
Columbus, Joseph Christopher, 40, Clay street, New Farm, second house on right from Ann street, fireman, qualified by residence on 19th June 1899.
Gerry
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Queensland Police Gazette
RETURN OF PRISONERS TO BE DISCHARGED FROM HER MAJESTY'S GAOL, BRISBANE, DURING THE MONTH OF JUNE, 1886
Joseph Columbus, Brisbane, 30, tried for Larceny, 9 month HL. born Italy, 5 feet 8 1/2 inches, sallow complexion, blue eyes, black hair, remarks, Italian standard right arm ; Garibaldi left am.
Gerry
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Hi,
Brisbane PO Directory & Country Guide 1887
Columbus, Joseph, Fireman, Annie St, Val.
Queensland Timber Licences 1860-1901
Columbus, Joseph, District of Miles.
Licence to cut hardwood granted 12th March 1892.
Gerry
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Thank you JoRose. I do have that information about the Colombus/Colombini from Tabulam. I was thinking about buying the document from N.S.W. Records but decided to wait until I had more information. I also have a copy of his Naturalization Certificate - he was born in France. I don't think he is related but am not going to disregard the information.
AND
Thank you Aussie1947. I didn't have the information that you have provided. It gives me some more insight into the man. If he was a convicted criminal and a fireman, maybe it is possible that worked as a fireman on a ship that visited Brisbane and maybe he jumped ship. Could that be a reason that I haven't been able to find him on any ships passenger records? It could also mean that he has lied [about his age/place of birth etc.] on a lot of the documentation that I have.
You have given me a lot to think about and I appreciate your help. If anyone can think of anything else, I would love to hear about it. Once again, thank you, Lesley
Unfortunately the Marriage and Death Certificates don't give any more information about him, except that he was born in Rome and that his Father's Name was also Joseph Christopher Columbus. My reading of the death certificate was that his father's occupation was a Clerk, but I wonder if that was his Mother's Maiden name, and I have misread the document.
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Hi.
He qualified to be on the Qld State Electoral Roll in 1900
Queensland State Electoral Roll 1900
The Electoral District of Fortitude Valley
Columbus, Joseph Christopher, 40, Clay street, New Farm, second house on right from Ann street, fireman, qualified by residence on 19th June 1899.
Gerry
He was on the electoral roll in 1887 ???
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/3480653
Debra :)
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Blimey you are right Debra. That must mean that he was already an Auzzie in 1887. The story just gets more and more interesting. Thank you.
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http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/4494200?searchTerm=Columbus%20larceny&searchLimits=l-decade=188
When he was charged with larceny he was in the employment of the Queensland Mercantile Company, at the time the "head storeman of the QM & A Company gave the accused a very good character for the three years he was in the company's employ".
http://www.archives.qld.gov.au/Researchers/Indexes/Courts/Pages/Naturalisations.aspx
- G. C. Colombos is in the Queensland Votes and Proceedings as taking the Oath of Allegiance (to be naturalised) in 1882.
However, I can't seem to spot him in the main naturalisation index.
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Hi veryoldgal,
I can photograph the deceased estate at NSW SRO the next time I am there (in a couple of weeks).
regards,
Ros
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Do you have the son's birth Cert. Guesippe William 1893 it indicates he was born outside the Brisbane area. Ref # 1893 C9324. If you can find the town there may be further insights into them there.
Neil
note spelling on record same as fathers.
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Neil,
He had a timber cutting licence for Miles in Queensland in 1892 so maybe Guesippe William was born in that area.
Gerry
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The Courier Mail Brisbane 1886 has Joseph senior in Brisbane receiving 6 mths hard labour so he must have taken the Miles Timber licence out and moved from Brisbane after that, as he had been working for his employer for three years prior. I wonder what he did for the period 1887 through to 92?
Might see what I can find about when where and how he got to QLD?
Neil
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If this guy was the age he claimed when he died, then he was born in the late 1850's.
There was no country called "Italy", then. There were of course Italian people, living in about ten different countries.
Getting to my real point, in 1860, the Kingdom of Piedmont-Sardinia, gave to France a large chunk of what is now south-eastern France, running all the way from Nice almost to Geneva, in return for French cooperation for the Kingdom of Piedmont-Sardinia taking over all of the rest of Italy. [ that's the simplified version ].
The point being that if you were an "Italian" born in that area, say in Nice in 1858, you could say later that you were Italian and also say that your birthplace is in France, and be correct in both statements.
The "Rome" sounds made up. The Romans were no fans of Garibaldi. It might say Rome because that is the only place in Italy that the DC informant had heard of.
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This is fascinating information. I didn't know this information about Italy. I have actually found some passenger lists [JC was part of the crew] with a "French" nationality. I have copies of "The City of Sydney" crew lists. Sometimes the name is recorded as J.F. Colombus others J.S. Columbus and another that is badly damaged ........C. Colombus. The ages that are recorded for this Joseph are all over the place, but I am glad that I kept the images in my "just in case" file.
I just checked Guiseppe William Colombus's birth record and I have it as born 23 April 1893 in Brisbane, but that could very well be an error on my part. I don't have the certificate. He is buried at Mount Thompson Cemetery.
If it is not inconvenient for you rosball, I would love a copy of the deceased estate papers.
Is it, just me, or do other people find the Qld Government website difficult to navigate. I have tried searching it lots of times and I just end up going round and round in circles and not finding what I am looking for.
Thank you to everyone who has helped me with my Joseph Christopher. Please I would love to hear of any other tips or hints.
Lesley
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I would love to chat some more but there is a thunder storm and I am going to switch my computer off until it is over.
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Just for interest, George William Columbus, enlisted in the 9th Battalion 1st AIF in October 1914, wounded at Gallipoli and returned to Brisbane in 1916.
Gerry
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I have just double checked the copy of Joseph Chistopher's Marriage Certificate for 1882 and it definately says born Rome, Italy. His Father is recorded as Joseph Christopher Colombus occupation Clerk, Mother Unknown. Mr Joseph and Kate were married in the Particular Baptist Church, but on his death Certificate it states that he is Church of England.
I also have a copy of a chips record of a C. Columbus being a passenger, Steerage on the Ship "Corea" 8 November 1880 and next to his name it says Lic. 26 Nov 1880 [I don't know what that means].
I also have copies of his Children's War records and also some copies of court martial records which make very interesting reading.
Any hints and clues are still very welcome. Thanks, Lesley
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"If it is not inconvenient for you rosball, I would love a copy of the deceased estate papers."
I believe Ros was referring to the fella from NSW. ::)
Neil
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Yes I was ... :) Joseph Colomb alias Joseph Colombini, 1899, Emu Creek near Tabulam casino, selector from France contains BDM certificate
cheers,
Ros
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Sadly, many shipping recods were lost in the 1893 Brisbane floods and like many of us you may not find how and when Joseph arrived. I'm in the same sitiation with my GGF and I have to be satisfied with a good approximate date within a couple of years going by all the other info I have.
Gerry
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I still wouldn't mind having a look at it. You never know, there might be a connection somewhere. At the moment I would give anything a try. I found out that one of his sons was a member of "The Australian Natives Association" and immediately thought of an aboriginal connection [apologies to any native Australians if I have written this incorrectly], but the Association was all about the confederation of the states. So, I still don't know how my Joseph Christopher got to Australia.
Another storm coming through, so I had better be quick.
Everyone has been incredibly helpful here and has given me a new perspective on my man. Why was he a fan of Garibaldi if he was born in Rome? Possibly he became a believer later on in life. One of the Tattoos on his arm is just recorded as "Italian Standard". Unfortunatly there are 100's of Italian Standard's depending on where you come from. I still don't know that. Why doesn't he know his Mother's name? It just creates more and more questions for me.
Don't you just love our ancestors! If only they knew the trouble they were causing to us researchers.
Please keep sending in any information or advice you can think of. I have found out so much in such a short time. You are all a great bunch of researchers. Thank you very much, Lesley
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As an after thought, if there is anything that I can do to assist any of you in your research, please, just ask me and I will do my best. I cannot say thank you enough. Lesley
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Ah, just remembered something about foundlings in Italy, relating to why he might not know his mother's name/gave his father's name as the same as his:
https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/Italian_Infant_Abandonment
Colombo was a common foundling surname, apparently particularly common around Milan.
(of course he might have inherited it from an earlier generation).
The Queensland Archives says this of the G. C. Colombos record in 1882 I found:
Queensland Votes and Proceedings often contain lists of people who took the Oath of Allegiance to be naturalised:
Votes and Proceedings A - Z 1880-1885 (PDF, 65KB)
These records are available on microfilm in the Public Search Room at Runcorn, and at the State Library of Queensland.
I don't know if any further information would be found there, though.
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Thank you for that. Isn't it sad. It hadn't even crossed my mind. I am going to keep digging anyway. You never know what you will find. I have found out so much since my first post. It is nice to come across people who are so willing to help
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Hi Lesley,
I would love to chat, Joseph is my gg grandfather. I believe he came from one of the Italian Islands. He was a fireman on boats, and then had a fish and chip shop in the valley and Petrie Tce. I know abut about the children etc.
Thank you
Jason
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Good Morning,
My great great Grandfather was Nicholas Columbus (also could of been spelt) Kolomvos to my knowledge, Joseph and Nicholas are cousins and they both were crew members on the ship when they arrived in Brisbane. Nicholas jumped ship and left for New Zealand arriving in Canterbury and Joseph stayed in Brisbane.. We have no records on Nicholas parents only that his named could be possibly G Kolomvos/ Columbus born and possibly a tavern owner in Greece. I would love any further information if you do have it. I am on ancestory.com and have DNA matches but no further information. Please feel free to PM me if you anyone like chat about this link. Kindest regards Susan.