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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: Gen List Lass on Friday 24 October 14 05:40 BST (UK)
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I was at a talk yesterday by someone from Beamish Museum and he said they had a windmill from Blyth.
Does anyone know where it used to be? He showed a painting of it near the water and some buildings on the far side of the water but he didn't know its exact location.
Gen in NBL England
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Was this the painting? - from one of the Museum's reports
Kay
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Very similar painting if not the same one.
Thought there were more cottages on the far shore but maybe my memories playing tricks:-)
Gen
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Someone from the Windmill pub might know - there's a painting of a windmill for the pub sign:
http://www.thewindmill-blyth.co.uk/Pages/default.aspx
In Kay's picture it looks like sunset, so that side would be west - could be looking over to Cambois.
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I can't think of anywhere near the shore at Blyth where hills like those in the background would be visible.
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skida - perhaps they're pit-heaps ;)
It would be surprising if there wasn't a windmill some where near the river mouth in the old days.
After all Blyth was the first location in the UK chosen for a windfarm.
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Calling Locohodgetts ! He has some lovely old Blyth photos, and if anyone can add to this post he can. Apparently there used to be a windmill on the Crofton Mill Pit site, and Loco has a photo of it. Come on Hodgetts..... Dolly
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More than one..... near where Golden Fleece was, and Cowpen Square.
Another one where Dolly indicates... Plessey Rd in area of Crofton.
Michael.
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The picture posted by Kay is of Bucks Mill at Cowpen.
The one at Crofton was on the site of Crofton Mill Colliery - too far from the water for it to be visible.
Christine
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I've just been mooching through my old Blyth photos - the other mill at Cowpen was Hodson's Mill. There were buildings around that one but on one of the drawings I have there are buildings visible on the other side of the river. Perhaps it was that one?
Christine
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The windmill in the colour painting was the one that stood on Bucks Hill and the view is looking more or less north. The buildings on the far side of the water were probably The Brown Bear Inn which stood close to the waters edge and is of course long since gone.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/51893012@N05/10216194174/sizes/l/
Bucks Hill Mill was brought from the south by the Hodgsons, and Bucks Hill Mill and Hodgsons Mill were two different mills in two separate locations, though close together and separated by a gut and stream.
The Hodgsons sold the mill to the Avery family of North Shields and at some point in time after that, there was a dispute over the lease and Marlow Sidney who's land the mill stood on, wanted it removed from Bucks Hill. The mill was slid off the Sidney land, like launching a ship, by shipwrights to the water's edge which belonged to the Croft Estate where the mill stood until it was demolished in 1870. The Averys had the oak timbers taken to North Shields and made furniture from the wood. The central post of the mill bore the date 1630.
I have no idea where the mill came from originally. Only that it came from the south.
The painting obviously predates 1870 hence the differences between what buildings stood on the opposite side of the river back then in comparison to later times.
I shall go rummage through my old maps and see if I can find one which shows both mills extant at the same time.
P
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I'm pretty sure that you have one - in fact I'm wondering whether I've seen it on this site??
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A cutting from an old plan of the harbour dated 1872.
Hopefully this will help you piece it together.
P
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One other question though since I am not certain from the conversation as to whether we are talking about the correct mill picture as per Beamish.
Might this be the picture given you mentioned there being more houses?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/51893012@N05/10217446663/in/set-72157641931957224
Crofton Mill was in a totally different location to Bucks Hill and Hodgson's Mill at Cowpen Quay. Re the picture description Crofton Mill stood on the site of the Crofton Pit.
It would be nice to have the original question clarified as to which mill we are talking about. I never heard that Beamish had any parts of a Blyth mill, and I think it most likely if any bits survive, that it would be Crofton Mill since I believe that one will have been demolished last, but that is a guess.
It would be great to be able to help Beamish out with this matter if they don't know themselves.
P
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This image is of Bucks Hill circa 1913 with dredging taking place in the Upper Harbour for a turning area. Bucks Hill was cleared completely to make way for the Bates Loaders (1932 'ish) which themselves have now gone and been consigned to the history books.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/51893012@N05/10217404016/in/set-72157641931957224
P
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Just to clarify where I found the painting of the postmill I attach a link to Beamish Development and Engagement 2013 - 2025. The Blyth Mill reconstruction is mentioned on page 3 and the painting with the proposed site of the mill is shown on page 13
http://democracy.durham.gov.uk/documents/s33317/Item%203%20DEP%20Summary%202013-2025%20August%202013.pdf
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Thanks for that pointer Kay99. The mill as pictured in that literature is definitely the one that stood on Bucks Hill to the north of Cowpen Square. It will be most interesting to watch their progress with it's reconstruction. Did they really say they had parts of it?
P
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All the report mentions is the reconstruction at Blyth Mill as part of their future program. However Gen List Lass did say that the museum had a windmill from Blyth
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Thanks, PHodgetts - so much information :)
I don't think I've ever been so far up the river to that point (Bucks Hill). But many times passed the Crofton colliery site on Plessey Road.
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The man from Beamish was talking about the future vision of Beamish and it was unclear as to whether it had been re-assembled or it is a work in progress. On the plan it is going near the Hall in the 1820 part.
Some very interesting stuff emerging about mills, here, there and everywhere!
There is a local mill website at http://northeastmills.wordpress.com and they mention another at http://www.millsarchivetrust.org/index.php Neither mentions any mill at Blyth.
Gen in NBL England
Gen in NBL England
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Thanks Gen, I assume therefore, it is a copy / recreation and it is a work that is about to be unertaken or is already in progress. I'd like to get in touch with Beamish and learn more about this project. Maybe I can help them a little.
Thanks everybody for your contributions.
I shall now go look at the mills link you added.
P ;D
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A little bit of boring admin info! Although today the sites of the two mills, (one at Crofton, other at Bucks Hill,) are situated within Blyth, in their working days, they lay within the Township of Cowpen, outside any jurisdiction of Blyth.
Michael
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Glad to see Phillip turned up and put us right about this topic again.
Sad to report tho' that the Windmill TriciaK mentioned is now definately up for sale.
One can only guess what this one will become!
Dolly
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My 3 x g grandfather Robert Stamp was the miller at Crofton North Mills according to his daughter Jane's baptism record in 1844.
At the time of the 1841 census Robert's sister Catherine is living in Bucks Hill Mill with her first husband William Wright, who is the M. Flour there. William dies in 1843 and Catherine marries again - William Smith Gilhespie - and continues to live in Bucks HIll Mill until her death in 1861. Her new husband is a labourer (1851 census) and Carter/Cartman from the time of the 1861 census. Presumably the mill falls out of use in the 1840s..
A map of the area available online (from the National Library Scotland Maps Sheet LXXIII ) shows Bucks Hill Mill was in ruins in 1865. I would love to know more about the dispute over the lease and when the mill was moved. It would be incredible if part of it now belongs to Beamish museum.
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Nice info Cavanaghs.
I understand that when Bucks Hill Mill was no longer in use, Crofton Mill was built to the south, and it took over the work done by Bucks Hill Mill. I would imagine that Beamish have relics from Crofton Mill rather than Bucks Hill Mill, since Crofton was demolished quite late to make way for the Crofton Mill pit. Why they removed the mill from the site I have no idea since the pit didn't actually encroach on the field over much that the mill occupied. Comparing old maps with modern, the field boundaries still exist and it is possible to identify the area where Crofton Mill once stood.
P
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Just to clarify.. are Crofton Mills and Hodgsons Mills and the Mill Pit all one and the same?
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See Greenwood's 1828 map of Cowpen and Blyth Townships......
http://communities.northumberland.gov.uk/006972FS.htm
Crofton mill just north of North Pit ( also known as "B" pit)
Crofton Mill pit at the south. Both mills marked with logo of a mill.
Michael
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Just confirming what Michael says - there were two Crofton Mills. One just above Hodgsons Lane between the river and Cowpen North pit, the other south of Plessey Road on the site of Crofton Mill Pit.
It goes back to the days when Cowpen and Blyth were two distinct places and the names of streets etc. were often duplicated. This was the subject of a long thread on here.
Christine
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Thanks for the link to the lovely map Michael. I haven't looked at it for a while.
This is really confusing! Doesn't the first (most northerly) windmill symbol relate to Bucks Hill Mill? And the second symbol to the Crofton mill located east of the settlement called Crofton?
And when Bucks Hill falls into disrepair around the 1840s, the replacement mill, also called Crofton mill is built close to the site of the old Bucks Hill Mill. Is that right? I think that's what Phodgetts suggests. So from this point there are 2 completely separate Crofton Mills... the original that existed at the time of the 1828 map and the new Crofton Mill.
Is Hodgsons Mill on Cowpen Quay the same mill as the Crofton Mill that replaced Bucks Hill Mill?
I'm just trying to sort this out as I seem to have relatives who have lived in all of these places! But who actually moved house!? eg Elizabeth Wright b 1839 in Bucks Hill Mill later marries Ralph Davison and is registered living in Crofton Mill at the time of the 1871 census. In 1881 she is registered living in Hodgsons Mills - with the same (unrelated) neighbour as in 1871. So I presume this is the same place.
Thanks to you all for keeping me right! I hope I'm slowly getting there..
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Having two Croftons is very confusing but if you go back to the Greenwood map and the Buckshill Mill then look about an inch to your right along the river you will see another windmill symbol though it doesn't have a name attached. That is the other Crofton Mill.
Christine
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I obviously haven't looked into your census information Cavanaghs, but hopefully this will help you understand where the mills were. Three very separate mills in three very separate locations.
Bucks Hill Mill was on Bucks Hill to the north of Cowpen Square. The site was lost to the river with dredging and the Bates Loaders were built on the site about 1932-3.
Hodgson's Mill was at Cowpen Quay, originally called Taylor's Quay which stood to the south of Cowpen Square where the High Ferry crossing point was. Confusingly it was also called Crofton Mills. This is where Hodgson's Road or Lane as it once was called, got it's name, and Anne's Row is the last remaining street of that small area. Wimbourne Quay and Alnmarinetech now occupy the site.
Crofton Mill, was on the south side of Blyth behind the Crofton Pit bath House. Modern houses now occupy the site of the mill. The old bath house is now called Pheonix House on Plessey Road. Just to the west of both old Rope Walks and close by the southern most parts of The Gut.
If you study this map you should be able to find all three sites;
http://maps.nls.uk/view/102346416
This is Bucks Hill Mill looking to the north;
https://www.flickr.com/photos/51893012@N05/10216194174/in/set-72157641931957224
These next three images are of Hodgson's Mill at Taylor's or Cowpen Quay also looking to the north;
https://www.flickr.com/photos/51893012@N05/10216882786/in/set-72157641931957224
https://www.flickr.com/photos/51893012@N05/10216860245/in/set-72157641931957224
https://www.flickr.com/photos/51893012@N05/13274987725/in/set-72157641931957224
And this last image is of Crofton Mill on the south side of the town, at Crofton, and on the site of what became Crofton Mill Pit, behind Pheonix House and the old bath house;
https://www.flickr.com/photos/51893012@N05/10217446663/in/set-72157641931957224
If you were to go back to the census and find the mill you ancestor was living at, and work both backwards and forwards through the census pages, you will get an idea of the surrounding streets where they lived. If there are streets such as Ann's Row, Catherine Street and Croft Street, then you are at Hodgson's Mill, and if it is Plessey Road, then you are at the site to the south of the town.
Hope that helps.
P :)
PS If you aren't already aware of it, you might find this Rootschat thread interesting re Hodgson's Mill;
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=497484.0
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This is Bucks Hill (circa 1913) as it was prior to being lost to the river and the site where the Bates Loaders were built;
https://www.flickr.com/photos/51893012@N05/10217404016/in/set-72157641931957224
And just for your interest, if you look in the bottom left corner of this river plan of 1819 you will see in the area surrounded by bog, that Bucks Hill used to be called Box Hill!
https://www.flickr.com/photos/51893012@N05/10217224285/sizes/k/
P ;D
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I have no idea where the mill came from originally. Only that it came from the south.
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Hi Phodgetts
This is fascinating stuff. I might be able to help you with the origin of the mill. According to the Horton Chapelry chapter of the Northumberland County History, Buck's Mill was brought from the Baltic by Captain John Watts in the latter part of the eighteenth century.
Regards Richard
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I had forgotten about this discussion. Since then we had the same talk from Beamish at Blyth Local History Society and I think he said that the plan was to re-create the windmill. I don't think they have any 'bits' of it.
As for where it came from - you're right, Richard, the man from Beamish reckons it came from Sweden.
Christine
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I did get in touch with Beamish and received a reply from the museum in July 2015.
The museum does not have any parts of any windmill that stood at Blyth!
Any reconstruction, would be just that, a replication, and it would be the Buck's Hill Mill they reconstruct.
It is considered part of a five year plan, but there is a risk that the project might not even get started. :'(
A "Dr MJT Lewis has, so far established that the mill was built in Sweden in 1630 and brought second hand to Blyth by the shipowner John Watt, who was trading with the Baltic. It was probably rebuilt at Malvin’s Close in the summer of 1779, and then moved to Buck’s Hill and enlarged and modified in 1782. The mill was still working in 1851 and then became derelict and disappeared around the mid 1860’s".
I do know that there was a rent dispute, and the mill had to be removed from Buck's Hill, and it was slid, as a whole, across a small tidal inlet onto land to the south of where it had stood on Buck's Hill. Subsequently the owner of the mill dismantled it, and used the good quality timber for making furniture.
A very sad end to such an illustrious mill. Fascinating history though.
P
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Since this thread was started I have learned that the artist painting Buck's Hill Mill was facing Northwest! Of huge interest to me is that the old Alkali Works are shown in the picture as are the old Netherton Staith buildings at the mouth of the Sleek Burn river, and the buildings to the right were not on the far side of the river at Blyth, showing the Brown Bear Inn, but of Buck's Hill wharf itself! I think the artist used some 'license', but the elements of the surroundings at that time are all present.
You can see the location of the Netherton Staith in this thread.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=308016.9
P