RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: daisy1942 on Monday 27 October 14 19:53 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
Would love any information on following people, particularly of descendants. All would be of n age and all were in Singapore in February 1942 but as business men not servicemen:
Walmsley, William Henry: He married to Miss Marjorie Wilcox in Singapore on 17/06/1935 believed of Scottish descent
Purvis, Peter Black, b. 1901 Stirling. . Married Mary Jane Brown 1931. Daughter Jean b.1934 & son James b.1932. to 1.41. Elder daughters Lucille & Eva. Post-war Managing Director, Wm. Hammer & Co.Ltd. Retired 1954 to Aberfoyle, Scotland Any information especially of descendants.
Stewart, James George: B.1901 (Drainie?) Scotland. Son George McLeod Stewart.
McArthur, William: Could be spelt MacArthur
McMahon, Gerald Manning: Derrick & Co.
Dyce, John: b.1899 Scotland. Wife Doris Marion & son Ian b.1934
Campbell, Hamilton:
Happy to be pm'd if information sensitive or involving people still living. Desperate for a breakthrough in research in father in law who grew up in Scotland.
Thanks
daisy1942
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Hi
That's quite a big ask.
Scottish info like this is only available on a pay per view basis via Scotlands People and involves buying credits etc www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk
You could spend an awful lot of money as downloadable info is restricted - especially for most of the period you are looking and you would have to purchase actual certificates to get any info
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/Content/Help/index.aspx?r=554&413
Why do you think tracing all these people and their descendants will help in your research of your father in law?
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Hi
That's quite a big ask......
Why do you think tracing all these people and their descendants will help in your research of your father in law?
Hi Carole,
Thanks for the response. I realise it is a big ask and the story that fires this request is equally big in its own way. Will try to be brief.
All these people escaped from Singapore on the night of 13/14 February 1942 They shipped out on a tiny boat called Daisy which was intended purely to carry fresh water to the larger ships in Singapore harbour. With them were a group of 5 ratings and a petty officer. Dad, who grew up in Glasgow, was one of this group and has been positively identified as such. I know how most of the civilians got from Sumatra to Australia. I was hoping to trace more details of them to see if there were links between these families and my father in law.
These people the only apparent connection back to Scotland for my father in law as there is no formal record of Dad's birth. I have been trying for 28 years without success to find one.
I have far more detail but the post would become excessively long so ny question pleaase ask.
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Hi daisy1942.
An intriguing story :)
Is your father-in-law still alive? Was he a lone child when he was escaped or was he an adult?
Looby :)
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Is there definitely no record of your f-in-laws birth, or none that you can find?
If he was definitely born in Scotland, and it is his birth you are trying to find, I would have thought you would be better off just sticking to searching for him there. :-\
If he is deceased then you can give his name and someone may be able to track him down for you.
You might even need to check over the border in case he was not Scottish born although he grew up there. Also check variations and misspellings of his name/s. Consider the possibility that he was illegitimate and was registered under his mother's surname.
You may have already tried all of these suggestions but quite likely that there are no family connections between him and the others who escaped in 1941, and it does seem like a roundabout and extremely expensive and time consuming way to search for a birth. :)
Do you know the names of your father in law's parents?
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By the way, this would probably be better on the Scottish general board rather than Census and Resource Discussion, so you might like to contact a moderator and ask for it to be moved. :)
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Hi Daisy
I've just asked the moderator to move it for you so you don't need to do anything
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Hi Looby,
hort question - very long answer! Briefly Dad died 1986 he was an adult at Singapore. What he was doing there and how he got there is a complete mystery to us. Will pm you long story.
Cheers
daisy1942
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Hi daisy1942,
There is a birth certifcate of a William Henry Walmsley in 1893 at Stewarton, Ayrshire. This certificate can be dowloaded on the http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk (http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk)
Tom
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Hi daisy1942
You have multiple Topics re this subject, to avoid people spending time duplicating what you know could you post links to all the other posts.
I had a quick look at your earlier posts and, according to them, it would appear your father-in-law was born in Ireland and raised in Scotland by his grandmother. My first though was that he may have been illegitimate in which case his birth would have most likely been registered under his mothers maiden name. The father named on his marriage registration may have been his reputed father, or it may have been another relative.
Andy
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Hi daisy1942
You have multiple Topics re this subject, to avoid people spending time duplicating what you know could you post links to all the other posts.
I had a quick look at your earlier posts and, according to them, it would appear your father-in-law was born in Ireland and raised in Scotland by his grandmother. My first though was that he may have been illegitimate in which case his birth would have most likely been registered under his mothers maiden name. The father named on his marriage registration may have been his reputed father, or it may have been another relative.
Andy
Hi Andy
Thanks for the idea about cross referencing the post but do not know how to link them. Also your thoughts on Dad's birth/upbringing are a new idea to me never thought of it in those terms before thank you
Daisy1942
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Hi daisy1942,
There is a birth certifcate of a William Henry Walmsley in 1893 at Stewarton, Ayrshire. This certificate can be dowloaded on the http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk (http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk)
Tom
Hi Tom,
Thanks for that - I had guessed Walmsley was probably Scottish and this look promising lead thank you. It would seem that all these men were from a fairly small part of Scotland. Seems odd in one way but more than coincidence in another.
Daisy1942
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Is there definitely no record of your f-in-laws birth, or none that you can find?
.......
You may have already tried all of these suggestions but quite likely that there are no family connections between him and the others who escaped in 1941, and it does seem like a roundabout and extremely expensive and time consuming way to search for a birth. :)
Do you know the names of your father in law's parents?
Hi Ruskie
I have been searching for Dad' papers for something like 28 years now and cannot find a birth certificate anywhere. According to Dad' marriage certificate states hi father was called John Patrick but cannot find a birth or death certificate for him either. All indications ere that they were either Scottish or Irish though in Dad's circumstances Ireland seems to be the better option now.
Regarding the Scottish group escaping...... The civilians all knew each other in Singapore, both on a social and business level. The Scottish contingent in Singapore were very close knit and in the circumstances of the Fall of the city it would seem logical that they would extend their help to a fellow countryman. I realise it seems to be a convoluted way to do the search but conventional approaches have stopped producing information for the moment. But any suggestions always appreciated.
Regards
daisy1942
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You have indicated that Dominic's father died in the early 50s . Have you drawn a blank with finding his death cert?
Added - just fully read previous post and see that you have!
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Hi
In your first topic http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=697269.0 (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=697269.0) you say that he got into trouble in Italy and appealed to the Dublin Government for help which appears to have been granted. Eventually in 1946 he is shipped back to the UK under something of cloud arriving in Liverpool. That suggests he was an Irish citizen, have you followed this up? If this is correct then he would have had to supply personal details but how or whether you can access this information I don't know.
Andy
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Is this the same Dominic referred to above
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=703612.msg5465753#msg5465753
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Is this the same Dominic referred to above
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=703612.msg5465753#msg5465753
Yes CaroleW it is. I have quite a number of posts in various forums on rootschat. At the moment I am using a scatter gun approach! I hve tried this with other chat sites, each time it has given several new leads to follow up. Hving been researching this for 28 yeaars traditional methods just do not seem to work!
daisy1942
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Hi daisy1942,
There is a birth certifcate of a William Henry Walmsley in 1893 at Stewarton, Ayrshire. This certificate can be dowloaded on the http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk (http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk)
Tom
Hi daisy1942,
Have you disregarded the birth certificate I advised you of yesterday. It will cost you 7 credits, and 30 credits cost £7, you can register and have certificate downloaded in minutes. That will prove his parentage etc.
Tom
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Hi daisy1942,
There is a birth certifcate of a William Henry Walmsley in 1893 at Stewarton, Ayrshire. This certificate can be dowloaded on the http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk (http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk)
Tom
Hi daisy1942,
Have you disregarded the birth certificate I advised you of yesterday. It will cost you 7 credits, and 30 credits cost £7, you can register and have certificate downloaded in minutes. That will prove his parentage etc.
Tom
Hi Tom,
Not at all, sorry if I implied that! I simply meant that I would get that in the near future.
Regards
daisy1942
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[quote author=tidybooks
Hi daisy1942,
There is a birth certifcate of a William Henry Walmsley in 1893 at Stewarton, Ayrshire. This certificate can be dowloaded on the http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk (http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk)
Tom
[/quote]
Hi daisy1942,
Have you disregarded the birth certificate I advised you of yesterday. It will cost you 7 credits, and 30 credits cost £7, you can register and have certificate downloaded in minutes. That will prove his parentage etc.
Tom
[/quote]
Hi Tom,
Not at all, sorry if I implied that! I simply meant that I would get that in the near future.
Regards
daisy1942
[/quote]
Since bought thank you! W.H. father was a ship steward - seems the sea was in his blood.
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Hi Hazel,
Regarding the Janet Patrick Stringer who died in 1950. Her first husband was a Samuel Robert Stringer. I can't find that marriage on Scotlands People. Have you looked for her om 1911 Census?
Looby :)
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Hi daisy1942,
That's good, do you think that this is the correct person you were looking for. Were you able to download the certificate to your printer OK?
There are some articles in the Scotsman, about the escape but did not give names of the fugitives. The Japanese had flags flying from the Singapore newest Cinema, so they knew Japanese forces were on the ground.
Tom
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Hi daisy1942,
That's good, do you think that this is the correct person you were looking for. Were you able to download the certificate to your printer OK?
There are some articles in the Scotsman, about the escape but did not give names of the fugitives. The Japanese had flags flying from the Singapore newest Cinema, so they knew Japanese forces were on the ground.
Tom
Hi Tom
this William i very promising I think as there is the link to Glasgow again (mother from Glasgow). Not found the articles kin the Scotsman - could you oblige with a link or pm me further detils if you'd rather.
Daiy1942
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Hi Hazel,
Regarding the Janet Patrick Stringer who died in 1950. Her first husband was a Samuel Robert Stringer. I can't find that marriage on Scotlands People. Have you looked for her om 1911 Census?
Looby :)
Hi Looby,
That marriage took place in England - have the details somewhere but not immediately to hand. Samuel Robert Stringer died Glasgow circa 1905 if memory serves. She appears on the 1911 census in Glasgow. Do you know of anyway of checking if she adopted Dad? Maybe she looked fter him informally for her brother... (think she had one). Have not reviewed the Janet details in while sorry
daisy1942
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Hi Looby & Tom,
Having a minor problem with Scotlands people - have an imge from previous searches and cannot get it all on the one page to mke it easy to read - forgotten how (having blonde moment) help please??
daisy
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Oh-oh.
I'm not blonde but I'm a technology dinosaur. Need to think about it. :)
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Have no idea about finding adoption details - sorry. If it was informal there would be no record of course.
But to be honest I'm not convinced there is a connection other than the Janet's middle name being Patrick and her married surname being Stringer.
Her parents were wine merchants. They lived on the opposite side of Glasgow from Maryhill circa 1911. Of course people can move home and areas. But when Janet dies (she is registered with her second married name btw) she is living not that far away from her 1911 home on the opposite side of Glasgow from Maryhill.
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Have no idea about finding adoption details - sorry. If it was informal there would be no record of course.
But to be honest I'm not convinced there is a connection other than the Janet's middle name being Patrick and her married surname being Stringer.
Her parents were wine merchants. They lived on the opposite side of Glasgow from Maryhill circa 1911. Of course people can move home and areas. But when Janet dies (she is registered with her second married name btw) she is living not that far away from her 1911 home on the opposite side of Glasgow from Maryhill.
You are right, of course, Looby, it is very unlikely. I have considered this before but still this person comes back to itch at times.
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Do you know of anyway of checking if she adopted Dad?
There were no formal adoption procedures in Scotland until about 1930, and adoption papers can only be viewed by the adopted person.
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[quote Do you know of anyway of checking if she adopted Dad?[/quote]
{quote There were no formal adoption procedures in Scotland until about 1930, and adoption papers can only be viewed by the adopted person. [/quote]
Bck to trying to looking for a needle in a haystack :-\
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If you are interested in finding out more about his time in pre-war Singapore there is a website that might help - malayanvolunteersgroup.org.uk. Many Europeans in Malaya were members of the Volunteers, a sort of Territorial Army and they have all sorts of biographical details on their members. Go to the contacts page and send a request for information to Jonathan Moffat. If there is anything there he'll find it.
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Duplicated in error!
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[quote
If you are interested in finding out more about his time in pre-war Singapore there is a website that might help - malayanvolunteersgroup.org.uk. Many Europeans in Malaya were members of the Volunteers, a sort of Territorial Army........ send a request for information to Jonathan Moffat. If there is anything there he'll find it.
[/quote]
Hi J11
Thanks for the info. I have regular correspondence with Jon but will hve another look t the website - I had forgotten that one ;D
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William Walmsley was my late grandmothers twin brother. Any info I can give you that will help do let me know. Thanks