RootsChat.Com
Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: Gillian Mauchan on Monday 10 November 14 07:01 GMT (UK)
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Hi I have a Veriquer Wasingtion as the father of a Jeckeriaa who married Henry George Warr in Birmingham on 05 Aug 1894. He is the brother of my Gr Grandmother Eliza Warr. Veriquer is named as a Traveller deceased on the marriage record.
The only record I have been able to find for Jeckeriaa is her marriage. I cannot locate her or Henry after the marriage. I was wondering if anyone has any advice on how to find more information about travelling families
Thanks
Gillian
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we might all be better off if you get the name right firstly> "Washington Jeckerua";
and I would assume she died as a Jessie Warr.... sounds that the prime family may have been of Ordodoxy or Jewish origin or beliefs.
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HI
Here is the marriage record - which is where I got the spelling from - as you can see the spelling is as I have posted ! I have searched for a Jessica Warr death- no luck!
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we might all be better off if you get the name right firstly> "Washington Jeckerua";
and I would assume she died as a Jessie Warr.... sounds that the prime family may have been of Ordodoxy or Jewish origin or beliefs.
Certainly a bit of a mystery. You've put the names as on the certificate but at least one index shows bride as Jessica (perhaps transcriber thought 'Jeckeriia' was a mistake!).
Not sure what that 2nd comment is supposed to mean :-\
I did find a Henry George Warr in 1901 census but not sure if he's the correct one-
Sandwell Hall, West Bromwich, Staffordshire
Henry George Warr, married, age 44, filler[?], birthplace- 'not known', lunatic
Possibly that same man-
Henry G. Warr, age 73 [born c1857], died July/Sept.1930, Birmingham South district, volume 6d, page 12
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Earlier Warr thread-
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=545744.new#new
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The 1901 census looks quite possible - A filler might be a fitter?? Could be an engine fitter. In other census years patients in asylums were often just shown with their initials
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The original index has her a Jeckeriia Washington.
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I had been helping in a very minor fashion on Gillian's previous thread, and suggested the Traveller board, as the Father was a traveller, and this seemed a reasonable suggestion, even though i had never read any of the posts on this board.
The comment from fastfusion was incredibly patronising and just plain wrong. Gillian had not stated that the marriage was to be seen on ancestry, but possibly fastfusion should have checked before jumping in with both feet.
I have not been using these boards for very long, but such gross assumptions as to the accuracy of the information given by Gillian may have completely bounced off her back, but it has not bounced off mine.
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So what becomes of the wife, and possibly some children, and where was she before marriage?
Modified post because of rootschat's position over 1911 census, as mentioned below:
Try the 1911 census under his 3 initials and similar place and area and age and confirmation of occupation.
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Unfortunately, we aren't allowed to post any details from the 1911 English census that are not available on free searches.
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I'm wondering if Wasington is an anglicised name as there are very few on the census.
Also I'm not convinced they are Gypsies as the term traveller is a modern term for describing a lifestyle choice.
Gypsies are usually recorded with their traditional occupations such as horse breakers, basket weavers etc.
The closest I've seen is travelling showman referring to fairground workers.
Traveller is usually followed by commercial but not in all cases.
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I did a quick Google of "veriquer" and find that it is an Irish surname.
Also, there is a small part of the population (mostly in Ireland), but also in England & the U.S., well-known as "Irish Travellers".
I would think that there is a very high probability of them being travellers (sometimes called gypsies or Romany).
Regards,
JMB
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chem> wasnt trying to be patronising..... the names used in the christenings are often reflective of names found in different bibles of different religions...... when I walked away from the post my other thought was that washington in this circumstance may even have applied to slaves from Jamaica that had made their way back into England... whether they were travellers or not is only reflective of about half the folk on the planet..... and the old cliche' of No they couldnt be related to my tree cos they lived elsewhere springs to mind.
I had a look at the certificate reference in freebmduk and numerous other aspects of the naming of folk of the post before I made any conclusions of a wildcard nature. And I might also add as ALL UK records are not online in an open and conclusive manner sometimes and I state sometimes researchers cannot and will never find the truth about certain folk. Whether or not their religious faith or illiteracy or illusive naming of children is taken into account or not. And I might add from a personal experience or two there were travellers or "hobos" or homeless in every country of the planet living that way through the incorrect ecomonics of their time. However I would also point out that somewhere in England there is a collective of generations that lived on vessels that travelled the waterways..........
so context of my comments is not meant as a jest of ignorance or demeaning.....
and I quite enjoyed the responses made that the name was of Irish origins.........
the Warr family name gets 78 mentions of births on the Warwickshire bmd site
the names of the witnesses may have led to a clue???>
Marriages Dec quarter of1891 Allsopp, Thomas George Mile End 1c902 to a Maria Block or Kate cable
with issue of an infant>
Births Jun quarter of 1892 Allsopp, Thomas George Mile End 1c458
Deaths Jun quarter of 1892 Allsopp, Thomas George age 0 Mile End 1c294
but no birth cert ref can be found for senior either.....
There are absolutely NO "Veriquer"s of any discription on the freebmduk
There are absolutely no Wasingtions either
this is the only Millicent Wilkins suitable as a witness>
Births June quarter of 1881 WILKINS , Millicent registered Birmingham 6d 39
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...and I would assume she died as a Jessie Warr.... sounds that the prime family may have been of Ordodoxy or Jewish origin or beliefs.
chem> wasnt trying to be patronising..... the names used in the christenings are often reflective of names found in different bibles of different religions......
Your response makes as little sense as your original remark since Veriquer & Jeckeriia don't seem to be Biblical or Hebrew names- besides which many Christians also have names that come from the Bible.
If you'd read the earlier thread you would have seem that the witness Millicent Wilkins' maiden name was Warr (it was her daughter born in 1881 and who would have been 13 years old when the marriage took place).
... and it's probably best that you don't elaborate on this comment
...and I quite enjoyed the responses made that the name was of Irish origins.........
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Thanks for all the suggestions - I had settled on the spelling as given in the marriage record as that was how the bride signed her name.
Irish - might be a thought!
I had previously found the suggested 1901 census - I guess if it's possible to find the Asylum records one might be able to confirm if it is the same Henry George Warr.
I did look for Jessica, Jeckeriia Warr records but have had no luck, she disappears as quickly as she appeared in the records!
I might have to purchase the death record suggested - not sure that English Death records will give much information that would clinch the identity but it worth a shot!
Regards
Gillian
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Unfortunately English death certificates give little detail (and accuracy depends on the informant's knowledge). For that period (1930) it will list name, age, date, place & cause of death, marital status (but not name of spouse unless informant), name of informant. Place of burial & birthdate not included.
Since that Henry Warr was in the institution well over 100 years ago, there might be a chance of getting details from the records. However, if he spent many years there (and died there even) then it may be more difficult. My previous experience has been that requests must be put in writing but I did get details about my grandfather's aunt who only died in 1950 by saying I wanted the information for family medical history.
Will keep searching for clues...
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I must admit that seeing "Veriquer" as an Irish surname was quite a surprise, as I had it pegged as of French origin.
The only other item that showed up in the Google search was the name "Veriquer Farquhir" in a newspaper in Red Bank, New Jersey, USA dated July, 1906. However, this was almost 20 pages of small, close type and I could not pick out the name. I think that "Farquhir" is a variant of the well-known Scottish name "Farquhar".
I too had searched the BMD without finding ANY trace (birth/marriage/death) which, for me, supports the theory that they are indeed travellers (generally keeping a low profile with respect to the authorities). The Irish Travellers apparently had their own language (Cant; Gammon), so not surprising that unusual-looking names are present.
Of course, the FreeBMD index only covers England & Wales, so if they are travelers from Ireland then they may be documented in the Irish records; apparently they were strongly catholic, so may well have had church marriages and baptisms.
JMB
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It's possible that 'Veriquer' & 'Jeckeriia' were known by other spellings of there seemingly unusual names as indeed Wasingtion may be the more common Washington. Have done some searching using the spelling Veriker & Vereker (more common in Ireland than Veriquer perhaps) but nothing new found yet.
Can't see any surname Veriquer in 1911 Irish census but under Verker there are a mixture of Catholics & Protestants. (just mentioning this in case the father's 1st name is from a family surname)
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Red Bank Register, June 19, 1907, page 2 gives details of a school end-of-term programme.
A dialogue "Then and Now" was performed by Veriquer Farquhar & George Voorhis.
Very small type, but clearly "Farquhar" not "Farquhir" under a magnifying glass.
I don't have full access to U.S. census records, but a search for "Veriquer Farquhar" born ca. 1890 did turn up some abbreviated records,.....
Velmer (or Veluser) Farquhar, living in South Carolina (no city), b. about 1892 in Hill City, Texas
Vlen Farquhar, living in South Carolina,(no city), b. about 1894 in Hill City, Texas
These obviously may be related to each other. Interestingly, there is today a known community of Irish Travellers in South Carolina.
None of this answers your original post, but is circumstantial evidence to support the travelers/gypsies theory and is intended to give you some possible background to your search.
Please let us know where your research takes you.
Good Luck,
JMB
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As regards that Red Bank Register, there appears on the 1910 US Federal Census a 12 year old boy, with American parents, living in Red Bank. There have been various attempts to work out his name, possibly Vereker, and possibly Farquhar, but some have suggested the F is a T. He is a boarder.
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Just wondering if anyone has any more ideas about how I can solve this one - I am still in the dark as to who Jeckeriia was
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Have you looked for any births for children of Jeckeriia and Henry in England/Wales- as you can now see mmn on the GRO index, which was not available in 2014?
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Nice thought - just had a go for about 10 years post their marriage looking at all the possible Warr births and no maiden names that look anything like hers!
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Just putting a link to the possible 1911 for him - if he went to the asylum soon after marriage it could explain no children showing.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7BH-TPS
Have you considered researching admission records of the asylums?