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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: Ro net on Monday 10 November 14 23:17 GMT (UK)
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can anyone help with background of the family of William john rowney born 1875. we know he married annabella foster and that he was born in newry ? Ireland . or previously. thank you im quite new to this.
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Hi
Did they marry in Ireland as I can't see an English marriage for them?
What is the connection to Lancashire?
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Are you sure about the 1875 birthyear for William - seems to be considerably earlier given this baptism of one of his children?
Annabella Rowney born 25 March 1877 Newry, Down
Father William John Rowney
Mother Annabella Rowney Foster
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This marriage is on FS but I can't match it to a William Rowney
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FY3T-Q6L
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Hi Ro net,
1901 census Ireland has William John Rowney age 58, wife Annabella age 56, in Lindsay Hill, Newry, County Down
:) Barbara
sorry, forgot the link
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Newry_North_Urban/Lindsay_Hill/1247294/
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thanks carole I think its my gt gt granddad somewhere down the line my dads dad lived in Hulme. think your right about birth dates its got to be around 1840 , ive some info on paper ill check it all properly before I come on again much appreciated .
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thanks Barbara just seen they had about 4 kids not here though but its a good start cheers
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Anything prior to my gt gt grandad getting married. I do know they had 4 children . I'd like to find out who their parents were etc thank you . I live in Lancashire.
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Previous post here - Birthyears are 1843 and 1845 respectively
topic merged
For some reason you posted on the Lancashire board but there doesn't seem to be any connection to Lancashire from the info found.
I will ask the moderator to merge that post with this one for continuity
Moderator comment , topics merged.
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The marriage certificate should list their residences at time of marriage as well as fathers' names & occupations. For earlier records you'll need to search for church records (if they survive) so the marriage certificate will also list where the marriage took place (may well be in bride's church).
Are you sure of the names? Can't see the marriage anywhere in Northern Ireland yet.
Thanks, Carole.
This marriage is on FS but I can't match it to a William Rowney
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FY3T-Q6L
The groom for that marriage is named Venables and it took place 12 Feb.1874.
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Just edited my reply above to show the birthyears of this couple - 1843 and 1845
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It would seem the the marriage took place much earlier than you thought-
Daughter Margaret born 1866- https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FPSH-5XG
Son Samuel born 1870- https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FPFP-5RH
Son George born 1872- https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGHQ-8QL
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William living with son George in 1911-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Ormeau/Saint_Kilda_Street/217656
There's lots more information online about this family but you may already have those details.
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Hi,
3 Jun 1862 William John Roney married ISABELLA Foster in Townsend Street Presbyterian Church, Shankill, Belfast. The fathers were George Roney and William Foster.
Regards
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and here
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGX8-534
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Daughter Annabella
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGVX-1HM
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has anybody any info on this marriage at all ive hit a brick wall.it is one of my gt grandfathers,or even any of their parents. thank you very much for any help.
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I'm not sure why you've started another topic for this couple but you've already been told the marriage was in 1862-
topics merged
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has anybody any info on this incident . or who did it and what happened to him/her .ive heard it was asia/india house.apparantly he was my granddads brother.thank you. ro net
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Have you got the death certificate? There is only one registration coming up on FreeBMD: Samuel Rowney aged 63, Jun qtr 1961 Manchester 10e 7.
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The Times, Friday, Mar 03, 1961
Sidney Singleton, aged 17, of Woden House, Regent Road, Salford, was remanded in custody until March 10 at Manchester Magistrates' Court yesterday charged with the murder of Samuel Rowney, aged 63, night watchman, whose body was found in a lift shaft at Asia House, Manchester, on Tuesday.
Chief-inspector Machent said that Singleton, in a statement, admitted striking the night watchman with an iron bar, in an office on the ground floor, and then taking him seated in a chair, from the office to a lift, where he took him to the fifth floor. Singleton had said he again struck the night watchman agout the head with the bar.
The watchman was found hanging head down in the lift shaft.
The Times, Tuesday, May 02, 1961 reported that he was found guilty of capital murder, on May 1st, and was ordered to be detained until her Majesty's pleasure is known, and only his age prevented him from the death penalty.
Stan
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Hi
There is a probate record for him
SAMUEL ROWNEY of 8 Grantley Street, Longsight, Manchester 12, died died 28 Feb. 1961 at ASIA HOUSE . Princess Street, Manchester. Probate London 27 April to Charles Harold Rowney, rotary assistant.
Effects: £1567 3s.
claire
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The Times, Friday, Mar 24, 1961, has a report of the trial, apparently Singleton was employed at Asia House.
Stan
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Jings......so sad & shocking :o
I wonder what his motive was with a man so elderly & probably unable to defend himself ???
Annie
ADDED......I wonder what became of Sidney Singleton?
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ADDED......I wonder what became of Sidney Singleton?
You must have read my mind!!
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Somebody else was asking this question back in 2007
https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070711125455AArf1EH
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ADDED......I wonder what became of Sidney Singleton?
He could still be alive, born 1940's, and may have changed his name.
Stan
Date changed as this person is likely still very much alive
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As other contributors have mentioned, the William John Rowney (or Roney) who married Annabella Foster is not the person you think was born about 1875.
William John Rowney/Roney was born about 1843 and married Annabella Foster (born about 1845 and died 1901-04) on 3 June 1862 at Townsend Presbyterian Church, Belfast. By the way, for some reason Annabella is called Isabella on the marriage certificate. They had eight children to my knowledge:
Eliza 1864
Margaret Jane 1866
William John (junior) 1868
Samuel 1870
George Foster 1872-1942 (my grandfather)
Robert James 1875
Annabella 1877
Thomas 1882-1933
William was a printer, though he tried his luck on the railways in the 1860s. The family had moved to Newry by 1877 and back sometime in the 1890s.
Hope this helps.
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Here are my notes. I hope they fill some gaps.
1843-ish. Born in County Down, but where? Possibly Newry, where the family later moved?
1862 marriage record gives Roney as the surname for him and his father George. Both Presbyterians. His age is given as 22 and his bride's (Isabella Foster) as 21. His profession is printer. The witnesses were John Hannan and Mary McCracken. The ceremony was at Townsend Presbyterian Church.
1864 record of birth for daughter Eliza gives an address of Cupar Street. William John’s profession is printer. The 1864 Belfast and Ulster street directory lists Cupar Street as off Falls-Road, with only five named people and 'Thirteen small houses'. It was in one of these latter places that the Roney's probably lived, too insignificant for the directory to record, though there was at 18 Cupar Street a William Pollock block printer.
1866 record of birth (church baptism) for second daughter Margaret gives an address of 29 Hutchison Street. At this stage, William is called a railway guard. Wife's name given as Isabella Foster. Should the address be Hutchinson Street?
1868 - birth record of another son of his, William John junior. Same father's details - railway guard of 16 Beggs Street, Belfast 4. Beggs Street no longer exists, but it was 'off Linfield Road to Railway Street'. One record - the baptismal record gives the mother as Annabella Foster with the DoB being 4 October and the registration done on 14 October. Another record - the Civil Record - says the mother is an Isabella McLarnon and gives the DoB as 2 November with the registration on 20 November via Margaret White of 45 Durham Street. The 1868 Trade Directory gives the name of the resident there as Margaret Hawthorn The same Margaret Hawthorn is also called a 'spirit grocer' at no 49, two doors down.
NB marriage on 4 August 1855 at Townsend Presbyterian Church (same as William Roney and Annabella/Isabella Foster) with the bride being a Mary Foster (19) and the groom Samuel Potts (22). No addresses alas. The bride's father is William Foster (coachman), the same name as Annabella’s. The witnesses were James McKee and Isabella McClarnon. Is Isabella is related to both the ‘Foster sisters’?
1870 Belfast and Province of Ulster Directory has at 16 Beggs Street W.J. Rowley railway guard.
1877 Address is Church Street, Newry on daughter Annabella's birth certificate. William called a printer.
1886 The address of Lindsay Hill appears on his son Samuel's papers for enlistment in the army.
1889 called a printer on son Samuel's marriage record.
1898 no sign of him in the Newry Directory for this year
1899. Was attacked in Newry by a local butcher Henry Curran, according the 'Newry Reporter' newspaper. This is from the 24th July (page 3)
"At early hour yesterday morning, William John Rowney, a letterpress machineman, was seriously assaulted at Carlisle Entry, off Water Street. It appears that a quarrel was proceeding there between Henry Curran, a butcher, and his brother, Mr. Rowney advised the disputants to retire to their house and cease fighting. It alleged, without further provocation, Henry Curran rushed the would-be peacemaker and knocked him down. Rising, Mr. Rowney threatened Curran with proceedings, whereupon Curran struck him another blow and felled him. In falling, Rowney's head came came in contact with a car wheel and an extensive wound was caused, and, the blood flowing freely, the prostrate man soon soon became unconscious. Constables M'Namtra and Osborough shortly afterwards appeared on the scene and secured the services of Dr. M'Cartan, who kindly attended to the man, who was subsequently removed to the Fever Hospital, where he is progressing favourably under Dr Beamish's skilful attention. Curran is in custody, and yesterday Mr. Turner, K.M, took Rowney’s deposition."
NB The only H. Curran in Newry was called a victualler in North Street in the 1898 directory.
1901 Irish census. William John Rowney aged 58 of 4 Lindsay Hill, Newry, co. Down. He has a wife Anabella two years younger. He is described as a printer-machinist. She is said to be illiterate. Intriguingly, the name Robert Rooney, is inserted by mistake in the form B.1 House and Building return for head of family. After that, the family moved to Scotland (at least for a while).
1903. Described as a journeyman letter press printer on wife Annabella's death certificate. She died of bronchitis at 202 Possil Road, Glasgow. William John was present. Date of death was 26 January. Aged at death stated as 58, which would put her date of birth as 1845. Her mother's maiden name was given as McLarnon on Annabella's death certificate - McLarnon/McLernon.
1909 Appears on marriage record for son George Foster Rowney to Ellen Elizabeth Patterson (my grandparents) on 2nd January.
1911 Irish census - living as a widower aged 70 with his son George and family at 24 St Kilda Street, Belfast. Called a printer and Presbyterian. St Kilda Street, now mainly demolished, was in the new working class near the Ormeau park. The houses were still being built in 1897 when a decision was made to rename Flinders Street as St Kilda Street.
1911. Called a journeyman printer on marriage certificate of son Thomas in Coatbridge, Scotland.
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Some comments on the above post-
1862 marriage record gives Roney as the surname for him and his father George. Both Presbyterians.
Irish marriage records do not list religion of bride or groom or their fathers. More likely you've picked this up from a pay site which seems to attribute religion for the marriage rcord based on the place where it took place.
1866 record of birth (church baptism) for second daughter Margaret gives an address of 29 Hutchison Street. At this stage, William is called a railway guard. Wife's name given as Isabella Foster. Should the address be Hutchinson Street?
Birth record for Margaret Jane shows mother as Annabella not Isabella. The surnames Hutchinson and Hutcheson are interchangeable and it's not unusual to see such variations.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1866/03511/2291328.pdf
Another record - the Civil Record - says the mother is an Isabella McLarnon and gives the DoB as 2 November with the registration on 20 November via Margaret White of 45 Durham Street.
Birth registered on 26 Nov.1868
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1868/03422/2255630.pdf
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Thank you for this. I'm still finding it difficult to separate the women in this part of the genealogy. Anabella Foster's parents (according to her death certificate in 1903) were William and Jane, with Jane's maiden name being McClarnon.
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to all the people who got involved . thank you ro net
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ANY INFO PLEASE ,HE WAS COLOR SERGEANT IN BRITISH ARMY IN INDIA . WHY WAS HE IN SCOTLAND ?
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You have posted this in the Lancashire forum.
When did Samuel die?
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Is it the same Samuel you asked about here?
topics merged
There are newspaper reports on FindMyPast but I can only see snippets as I am not a subscriber.
It is discussed, however, on your thread.
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'I wonder what his motive was with a man so elderly & probably unable to defend himself '
He was 63!
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There are other threads about the Rowney family. A contributor to one said that the family moved from Belfast to Scotland. Click on "Profile" to find your old threads.
Did you intend to post on the Lanarkshire board?
Btw, you seem to have hit CapsLock. A post which is all in capital letters is regarded as shouting. See "Help" section "How to use RootsChat".
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Only two adult Samuel Rowney people ever had their death Registered in Scotland
ROWNEY
SAMUEL
age 63
died 1934
685/4 21
St Giles
ROWNEY
SAMUEL
age 22
died 1945
152/AF (Air Force) ?
Scotlands People
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I think you need to rearrange the wording of the subject as it's misleading & confusing?!...
Edited with strike through...please see Add at bottom of this post.
"samuel rowney b1899 belfast died in hotel in scotland??
It infers Samuel died in a hotel in Scotland...
"Samuel Rowney, aged 63, night watchman, whose body was found in a lift shaft at Asia House, Manchester"
Annie
Add, It looks as though you're researching 2 different people with same names.
Can you please tell us whether you have found a link to either/both with accuracy? as your other post stated "apparantly he was my granddads brother"
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The Samuel Rowney who was murdered on 28 February 1961 was the son of Samuel Rowney (1870-1934) and Catherine Daly (1871-1954). His father had been a colour sergeant in the British army before WW1 and the family had spent a lot of time out in India. In fact two of his children died young out there. Samuel never married but he had two brothers: William Thomas Rowney (1899-1963) and and a Charles Harold Rowney (1913-1980). They both reached adulthood and have left descendants in the Manchester area where Samuel and Catherine moved after army life.
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again thanks to everyone involved . much appreciated.brilliant effort .