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General => Armed Forces => World War Two => Topic started by: Goldipaws on Tuesday 18 November 14 16:30 GMT (UK)
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WW2, I think, 1941, a German plane crashes or was brought down at my local beach at St Audries Bay in West Somerset. Two German airmen were then buried in the local church and there they lay being remembered each year by locals even though they were 'the enemy' and they now have a cross where they are buried. We would love to find out more about these men, and perhaps trace any family.
A few years after the war a letter and money was sent to a local lady asking for the money to be used to put poppies on the air men's grave , she and her son did this and the son still continues to do so after all these years.
This November a cross was erected for the Airmen, but no names survive and sadly no letters survive either.
It would be lovely if Anyone with any recollections of the crash or suggestions of how I could find more information of Luftwaffer crash records would be wonderful. (Crash might not be the correct term?) to find out a little more about these young men and give them names would be great.
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Welcome to RootsChat! ;D
Probably best to look here: http://www.aircrewremembered.com/
Where they have an database of Luftwaffe personnel?
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Thankyou for the info I shall have a look. I don't have any names, flight numbers or anything to start with, but maybe I will find something there as I've not looked at that site. Again thank you.
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Try here:
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?p=192105
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Thank you for the info and having looked it up I think I will now leave it to the other guys who are also looking. Many thanks again. :)
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Hi
There is an interesting Website about Luftwaffe Fighter Pilots missing in action.
http://www.luftwaffe.be/
Regards
Svenja
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You might be able to narrow it down a bit. This site lists the raids - http://ww2db.com/battle_spec.php?battle_id=95
I've had a quick look through the early months of 1941 and there were a number of raids on Bristol and on Plymouth. If the plane was hit over Bristol it might have made it as far as St.Audries Bay, or it could have been on the way back from Plymouth.
Wouldn't there be some identification on the bodies? If their tags were removed before burial then they would surely have made their way to the War Office. I wonder if German authorities would be interested in having the remains disinterred so that their families could be told?
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Thank you all for your help.
I will scroll through Svenja, looks interesting, thank you.
And thank you Malcolm,
re the identification tags, the bodies were washed up on the beach, but were headless, I guess through impact on crashing? I don't know if there was any wreckage of the plain.
I am trying to help a friend who is interested as he's put poppies on the spot where they were buried since he was a child. His mother received letters with money for poppies for some years after the war, so mum and son put poppies on the graves till his mum died, and his son continues doing it now, he didn't want them to be forgotten either, they were just young men doing their duty for their country.. My guess is the letters were from the parents but after they died The letters stopped, it was many years ago and none survive.
I believe I'm right in saying the authorities were told, although which ones I don't know, and nothing was done. My friend is now 74 and has been trying to do something for them all this time.
Many thanks again,
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re the identification tags, the bodies were washed up on the beach, but were headless, I guess through impact on crashing? I don't know if there was any wreckage of the plain.
If there was no wreckage found then that makes a big difference as to which raid we are looking for. In that case they could have come down in one of the Swansea Raids of February 1941 and currents then carried the bodies across the Bristol Channel:
19 Feb 1941
German bombers began a three-day campaign against the port city of Swansea, Wales, United Kingdom.
20 Feb 1941
German Luftwaffe bombed Swansea, Wales, United Kingdom for the second consecutive night.
21 Feb 1941
Swansea, Wales, United Kingdom was attacked for the third consecutive and final day as bombers flew over the port city from 1950 hours until after midnight. Over the course of the three days, 35,000 incendiary bombs and 800 high explosive bombs were dropped on Swansea, killing 230 and wounding 409, but the strategically important docks and nearby oil refineries were relatively unaffected.
The fact that both bodies were headless tells us something. I think it indicates that they would have had to have been in an aircraft where the canopy came off to behead them both simultaneously. I think that rules out a fighter plane. The JU 87 (Stuka) did have a gunner sitting behind the pilot but this plane was more or less ruled out by 1941.
Perhaps we can find out who was lost in the Feb 1941 raids on Swansea?
I checked out Henrietta's War, but there is little information of actual raids in that, save for one in May 1941 when Henrietta (fictional name used by the author Joyce Dennys) had an argument with a neighbour over who now owned an incendiary bomb and so had the right to put it out. The bomb died while they were arguing. Joyce lived in Budleigh Salterton.
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If funds for flowers still come from Germany, surely one family name and address is known. They would know name of of at least one aircrewman, unit and aircraft. Next thing date is crucial. It's pretty hopeless up until May 1941 when there were so many Luftwaffe units in France. They ranged far and wide, South Wales, Bristol, Midlands and Northern Ireland etc. etc. During May the bulk were moved East for the invasion of Soviet Union. Thereafter only a holding force remained.
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Hello Regorian,
Sorry but the letters stopped many, many years ago and none survive today. Hence the problems of finding out who they were. The chap who puts the poppies on the site of the bodies today was only a child at the time his mother used to put poppies there. He does not remember any more.
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Thank you again Malcolm for your help.
I have sent an email to the gentleman who has been putting the poppies on the grave for more Info if he has any, and I'm now waiting his reply.
Another person has suggested there were 4 Germans, but at them moment I have no idea if this is correct or if it can be verified. But the thought is that another two bodies were washed up a few miles away on another beach at Lilstock. I do not know if this is fact, or, if it is, if they were found in the same month or year even as our two Germans.
But, If it is correct and they were all in the same plane would that make a difference to the type of plane we are looking for?
But for now I only know of two un- identified Germans, and they are in this grave yard.
So I await more info in reply to my email from The Gent.
Many thanks
Goldi
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Update information. It looks as though it was AROUND the 1st of November 1941, NOT the 21st.Nov. One, maybe two Dorniers, possibly DO217 was shot down in the Bristol Channel, just off St Audries bay. Sorry this puzzle is getting a bit hazy but I'm collecting info from long ago memories. We would love to find out the air men's names.
Hope you can help
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Hi
In this forum is mentioned a possible crew of a Dornier 217 E2.
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?p=192105
I tried to find out more about them, but I couldn't find anything until now.
It is also mentioned that they were shot down by 307 Squadron.
I found out that this was a Polish Night Fighter Squadron.
Here are some Dorniers which were lost, but nothing matches the date.
http://www.aircrewremembered.com/KrackerDatabase/?q=Dornier
As I am a member of two German Genealogy Forums I could ask there if you want.
By the way have you or someone else searched the newspapers of that time?
Regards
Svenja
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Thank you Svenja you have been most helpful.
I suppose if it was a Dornier it would have been listed on the site you showed me? As it's not there then maybe it was another type of plane? I know nothing of any wreckage so I can't help there, and I have read the 12oclock site and there is also confusion I think.
I do not know if anyone has looked at newspapers of the time. I will ask the others.
I think any help would be good in finding who these poor souls were, but I wish I had more concrete clues to give you.
Again, thank you
Regards
Goldie
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Hi
"On the night of 1st/2nd Nov. 1941, the crew of Turzanski/Ostrowski successfully
intercepted and shot down two Do-215s. This time both kills were confirmed."
http://www.polishsquadronsremembered.com/307/307Story.html
The website about the German Luftwaffe I gave you has only Fighter Planes and Fighter
Pilotes listed. If a Dornier is not a Fighter Plane than it would not be listed there.
I don't know if the Luftwaffe Archives on aircrewremembered has all Dorniers listed which crashed.
I have also looked at another German Website which lists many airplanes which crashed.
I looked at all Do215, Do215B but nothing matches, from the Do217E no one crashed in 1941.
But it is possible that some incidents are missing in this database.
http://www.crashplace.de/output.php
Regards
Svenja
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Thank you again for your wonderful help, I will pass this information on to my friend. I wonder if there is any way of finding out where those two planes were brought down, I dint see any place mentioned.
Your knowledge has been very helpful, thank you.
Regards
Goldi
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The RAF squadrons' Operations Record Books are digitised and might give a clue, as might the Combat Reports. There's a Report for Sgt Turzanski in AIR 50/119/36 which looks promising. It might include the markings on the downed aircraft and will almost certainly identify its type.
All on the National Archives website.
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Thank you everyone, it would seem as though another researcher who started this search has found what he was looking for, so I / we can't help any more.
The last post by Svenja was correct and that concluded what he was looking for.
So Many thanks to you all and Happy Researching
Goldie
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But has the original researcher managed to identify the bodies that are buried at St.Audrie's Bay?
Last night we went to a members night function at the Teutonia-Australia Club here in Hampton Park and I couldn't help wondering if those lost airmen might just happen to have been related to one of our members.
Were the Polish airmen still operating out of Honiton on the night of 1st/2nd November 1941? I had a look at the linked site but it doesn't tell us any more.
I've exchanged emails with someone in South Wales who has been a great help and sent me lists of all the raids on South Wales - but there a none listed for this date or even within a week of it.
Surely the Volksbund Deutsche Kriegsgräberfürsorge would be interested in having the remains reburied with a suitable memorial even if it only said 'Unknown'? If that were to happen then they could take dna samples as has happened to other bodies from WW1 in France.
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.hello again Malcom,
The latest I have is the following guys were Out of Honiton on that night over the Bristol Channel. It is yet to be confirmed as this says DO-215s and another reference to our fallen Germans they were in DO-17s. I don't know the difference but in my mind it's a discrepancy that needs looking at. So, I Need a bit more verification yet and I shall try and look in the National Archives but I'm not a member and not sure how it works. But I do have some names from the DO-217 but are they correct? I shall try and find out more but I'm a complete a mature at this.............
"In November Luftwaffe increased its activity over the channel, and crews of No. 307 had more work to do. On the night of 1st/2nd, the crew of Turzanski/Ostrowski successfully intercepted and shot down two Do-215s. This time both kills were confirmed."
I shall pass on your message as I also think it important to get these guys home. I believe that over the years authorities, but I don't know who, have been contacted but with no response, it is only through the caring of this gentleman and him putting poppies on the grave and remembering them that anything has been done at all! No one would even acknowledge there were any bodies there for years and thought he was mistaken as he had been only a boy when his mother told him about them.
They have now been publicly acknowledged but what happens next?
Thank you again for your help
Goldie
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Hi
You should just do what Graham said, look at the National Archives Website for the RAF squadrons' Operations Record Books and the Combat Reports of Sgt Turzanski in AIR 50/119/36.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/air-force.htm
I have just found the Combat Report of Sgt. Turzanski here:
http://www.polishsquadronsremembered.com/reports/Turzanski1.htm
He said both planes were Do-215 but later it was added Do-217 of II/KG2.
The Volksbund and other German Archives could only help if you know more details, like the names, date and place of birth or the unit/plane. In the sources I found the plane was either a DO-215 or a DO-217-E2.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dornier_Do_217
I also found a discrepancy, one link says that they belonged to the Kampfgeschwader (Fighter Squadron) 2, but in another link I read that this unit was in Russia near Moskau at the time in question.
As I said before, if we had more details, I could ask in some German Forums, maybe someone knows more about the names we found or the units in this area at that time.
Regards
Svenja
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I have sent an enquiry to the Volksbund with the suggestion that these poor airmen should be given some recognition.
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I take it that St Audries Bay is due north of West Quantoxhead and just to the east of Watchet? In that case it would have to be the 22.15 hours attack by Sgt Turzanski on the northbound raid number 57 possibly heading for Barry Docks or even Swansea. The Dornier downed south of Sidmouth would have crashed in the English Channel and not the Bristol Channel. I wonder how the raid numbers were assigned for Raid 57 and Raid 381 on the same night sounds odd?
We have a bit more to go on now. If both raids were from the same base in France then I think it would have been in either Brittany or Normandy.
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Youtube clip of a Dornier 215 and crew climbing aboard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMYMMKfHNSA
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Hi
Here are the links with the history of the Kampfgeschwader 2 which I mentioned before. But there is
more written about the I and the III Group than about the II Group which is of interest for this case.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kampfgeschwader_2
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kampfgeschwader_2
http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gliederungen/Kampfgeschwader/KG2.htm
Regards
Svenja
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Hello and sorry for the delay in replying but frustratingly my computer has been OFF for some unknown reason.
Firstly, Svenja,
Last night I visited the National Archives on line (as I'm miles away to do it in person) paid my money to look at the file you and Graham gave me, but once it came through via email I could not open it. I tried different ways on two different computers to read it but to no avail! I have run out of ideas what to do on that one. Any ideas? I've downloaded every program I know to download them
but .... No good.!
I can't open the links your gave me either so I'm not having much computer luck right now, it is frustrating as I want to read what's in them and see if there's anything relevant as I'm sure there is.
Malcolm,
you are correct with map reference for St Audries bay, I hope the bit of info I gave you was helpful, but as yet I've nothing useful to add I'm afraid.
Thank you all for all your continuing help
With best regards
Goldie
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Hi Svenja, I've managed to open your links but the third one is in German and I can't translate it and my computer won't either! It's a gremlins day for my computers I'm afraid, sorry to ask, but can you re send an English translation please?
Many thanks
Goldie
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Sounds like
Do 217 E-2, Wk Nr 1123, U5+EM of 4/KG 2., Shot down by 307 Sqn near Watchet 2218 hrs. Lt Bruno Adler, Uffz Fritz Bartol, Uffz Kurt Skowronnek, Gefr Johann Egger missing
I'm not sure if this information is correct, or if it's our men but I found it on another internet site.
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Hi Goldipaws
You can see the content of the record from the National Archives here:
http://www.polishsquadronsremembered.com/reports/Turzanski1.htm
I know the names you mention and I have searched for them,
but they neither are in the database of the Volksbund nor elsewhere.
Oh I see there it is 4/KG2 on the report it is 2/KG2, what is right?
I think 1, 3 and 4 were in Russia at that time, so it must be 2/KG2.
Regards
Svenja
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Oh thank you so much Svenja,
It was so frustrating having got so near and then not be able to open the file, that's brilliant.
Now what? If the names aren't there in Volskbund data base or anywhere else is there any reason why they are not there?
Maybe someone can throw some light on it?
Many thanks again
Goldie
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Sounds like
Do 217 E-2, Wk Nr 1123, U5+EM of 4/KG 2., Shot down by 307 Sqn near Watchet 2218 hrs. Lt Bruno Adler, Uffz Fritz Bartol, Uffz Kurt Skowronnek, Gefr Johann Egger missing
I'm not sure if this information is correct, or if it's our men but I found it on another internet site.
The forum you looked at, Goldi, was this one - http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?p=192105
I have been trying to puzzle out the figures in the Action report. The plotting counters in operations showed the height in '000's' and beneath the number of aircraft coming in. Other figures were pinned above that gave the number of the intercepting squadron. So 'raid 57 northbound' sounds like 57 bombers. However 'southbound raid no 381' sounds like to big a figure to be the number of aircraft at that time and in that area. Therefore I wonder if it could be the Track Number? Tracks were assigned by the Officer in the Filter Room once it became clear what direction incoming aircraft were taking. We then need to consider what this figure may mean - 'and when at 13000 feet at 2204 hrs. at T 8146 '. Again this could be a track number, cannot be altitude as that was 13000 feet. Might be a position with the last two digits of latitude and longitude. If only my late brother-in-law was still alive - Ted was a Radar WO and at one time at Bentley, Stanmore. I'll pose the question in an RAF forum I am member of.
I also think I can write a note for our Teutonia Club newsletter, just in case we have a relative.
I wonder too, Goldi if your local newspaper would like to take up the story if your friend has no objection?
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Hi Goldiepaws
If someone who died in the war is not mentioned on the online database of the Volksbund, that must not mean that the Volksbund has no information about him. So a request could be helpful, but I think they need to know more details. You said that some times ago someone contacted the british family and asked them to put flowers on the grave. So they knew that their son/brother was buried there, but who told them this fact? During the war it was usually not the Volksbund who told the families that and where their sons had died. I think it was someone of the Luftwaffe or after the war the WASt oder DRK who told the family what happened with their son/brother. But without names and date and place of birth they can't help to find the records. I think we should wait for the answer of the Volksbund (Malcolm said he has sent an enquiry), as I know they work together with WASt and DRK in some cases.
Regards
Svenja
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Hi Svenja
you mentioned 11/KG2's. This is what is written on the NA file.... ll/KG2 equipped with Do217
I don't know what this means but I hope you do?
Again thank you for your latest reply arrived while wading through everything :).
My friend who has put the poppies on the graves for all these years only remembers that his mother was contacted by someone?? And sent letters with money for her to put poppies on the grave, this she did and then after she died he continued doing it. Sadly no letters exist today and he has no idea who they came from but guessed it was from a member of the family. He was only a small child at the time and can't remember any more details.
I will quiz again just in case he can think of anything else.
Thank you for your help,
Best regards
Goldie
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For a moment I thought we might have a time problem. The Action report by Sgt.Turzanski states that it took place at 22.15 hours and the Luftwaffe report gives the time as 22.18 hours which I guess is the minute they lost radio contact. France is normally one hour ahead of Britain and I did realise immediately that double summer time accounted for the same time, but then thought it had ended by 1st November. Now I see that it was only the extra hour that stopped in August:
S.R.&O. 1941 No. 476 (Emergency Powers (Defence)—Summer Time)
•Long title: Order in Council amending the Defence (Summer Time) Regulations, 1939.
•Date: 4th April 1941.
This order, under the Emergency Powers (Defence) Acts, 1939 and 1940, amended the Defence (Summer Time) Regulations, 1939 to provide for double summer time, during which period the time was two hours in advance of Greenwich mean time, starting on the day after the first Saturday in May and ending on the day after the second Saturday in August, both at 1am Greenwich mean time (rather than the previously used 2am). The time for the rest of the year remained one hour in advance of GMT. The order provided savings for certain contracts with agricultural workers and concerning the production of milk: for those purposes, the time was to be taken to be one hour in advance of GMT throughout the year, unless the parties to the contract agreed otherwise.
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I'm so pleased your happy with all that! :D I'm smiling as I must look so dumb! But at least it all makes sense to you, so now what's the plan? I've asked for more answers from my friend but I don't know if there will be any, but fingers crossed!
I love puzzles but this is amazing.
Many thanks again
Goldie
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Hi Goldie
As I said before you could search in old newspapers or you could search more people who could remember something (maybe with a story in the local newspapers as Malcolm said).
Or I could put the names of the crew (Lt Bruno Adler, Uffz Fritz Bartol, Uffz Kurt Skowronnek, Gefr Johann Egger) and some details on two or more German Forums. I'm member of two Genealogy-Forums but I also know two other forums about World War II.
Or we could wait first for the answer of the Volksbund, could be that they are able or have the contacts to do more researches, but it could also be, that they ask you to send them more details.
Regards
Svenja
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Hi Svenja
I think to put the names on the German forums a very good idea, and any relevant info you think helpful, that would be splendid thank you. I got the impression that there may not be any positive news from Volskbund if there were no records there?
Although the local newspaper was contacted and they did an article it was around the 11th November. Maybe as there was so much activity around then it would not hurt to contact another newspaper and ask if any locals know any more details. One thing I have heard is that over the years no one would believe that there were any German bodies in the churchyard! It is only recently that it was proven! So, will wait and see what it brings up this time.
Regards and thanks
Goldie
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I'm so pleased your happy with all that! :D I'm smiling as I must look so dumb! But at least it all makes sense to you, so now what's the plan? I've asked for more answers from my friend but I don't know if there will be any, but fingers crossed!
I love puzzles but this is amazing.
Many thanks again
Goldie
We're all smiling with you Goldipaws for it isn't often we get such good answers and finds. You don't look at all dumb but very clever to find the Luftwaffe discussion forum. It is all the puzzles that keep our old minds alive and still active, so many thanks for bringing this one up.
We should be able to find families now and with this information the authorities will want to do something more, I feel sure. So it is all thanks to you.
Malcolm
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Oh Malcolm that would be wonderful, wonderful for the families too, so fingers, eyes, toes and knees crossed!
Many, many thanks
Goldie
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Interestingly I've just heard of a book " Somerset at War" apparently it says the Dornier that crashed at St.Audries is mentioned with the crew unknown, missing! So it sounds like it's old news? I wonder why nothing has ever been done about these poor chaps, could it be because the bodies were not intack I wonder? There are only two in St Audries graveyard but there are another two in Stogursey church yard who are probably from the same flight as they are also thought to be German airmen shot down that night and washed up at Lilstock. They have or had iron crosses on the graves but as yet they are 'unknown'.
Regards
Goldie
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Hi
Is the Volksbund informed that there were two planes shot down at that night?
And that there were two different burial places with two soldiers each?
Has someone searched for both reports of the German Luftwaffe?
I still don't know where we can find the reports of the German side.
I'm not sure if at that time every Dornier had four crew members.
The four man buried there could be all from one crew but we
don't know what happened with the crew of the other Dornier.
Regards
Svenja
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I'm afraid I can't answer all those questions and I wouldn't know how to start.
But as far as I know two Dornier planes came down that night, the Other Dornier plane came down in the English Channel near Sidmouth and not in the Bristol Channel as did the one I think we are talking about with the airmen buried near here.
I looked up Dornier planes and they usually had a four man crew,so that would fit, and it would seem that the other two bodies were found at around the same time if not the same night?
Would the German forums you talked about be able to shed more light on those questions perhaps?
Best Regards
Goldie
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Hi
I don't have much knowledge of the geography there, so it was a bit difficult to understand.
The German Genealogy Forums could help to find any descendants or other relatives. There are also some people who have more knowledge about the German Army than me. I also know some special Forums about WWII, but there I'm not a member, but I think I know someone who is there.
I'll write the german text tonight and put it on both the German Genealogy Forums.
Regards
Svenja
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I followed your lead, Goldi, to Somerset at War and found this page - http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/21096-boulton-paul-defiant/ This is mainly about a Defiant that crashed into the sea near Watchet, but in August 1940. Anyway I've joined this forum and will raise the topic there.
I haven't heard back from the Volksbund so will try with them again, this time with the names you gleaned from the Luftwaffe Discussion forum.
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Hi Malcolm,
The book is "Somerset at War " is written by Mac Hawkins with a forward by Field Marshal Lord Harding of Petherton, I mention this as I looked on Amazon and they had another book of the same title but different author.
Regards
Goldie
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Hi
Again I read the whole thread and some links to write the text for the German Forums. I remarked two facts about the Group II of Kampfgeschwader 2 which I have overseen before.
The Lexikon of the Wehrmacht (German Army) says that the Group II of KG2 was stationed at Fliegerhorst Evreux, Normandy, France from the 1st July 1941, and then in Eindhoven, Netherlands from the 8th December 1941. So I think they were stationed at Evreux on the 1st November 1941.
http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gliederungen/Kampfgeschwader/KG2.htm
The english version of the Wikipedia entry says the following, but I think there is something wrong with the years.
Western Europe: In July 1941 II. Gruppe were attached to stab./KG 30 under the command of Luftflotte 3. On 2 July 1942 it could muster 37 Do 217s and 2 Do 17s. On the night of the 4/5 July 1942 it flew its first mission over the United Kingdom with Do 217s. Over the period 4 July - 31 December 1941 the unit lost 18 Do 217s. In August 1942 the unit lost 7 Do 217s during the Dieppe raid.
This are the two threads in the German Genealogy Forums which I have written:
http://forum.genealogy.net/index.php?page=Thread&postID=354776#post354776
http://forum.ahnenforschung.net/showthread.php?p=790294#post790294
Regards
Svenja
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Oh, are you saying that the German plane we think was down on the night of 1st November 1941 near St Audries Bay can't be the Do217 as they were somewhere else? If so then who did crash into the Bristol Channel?
It's been documented and written about but has someone got it wrong??
Why has nobody claimed the bodies?
So what next?
Regards
Goldie
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Hi
It can only be the group II of KG 2 because the other groups were in Russia at that time.
But I'm not sure if they had the first Do 217 in July 1941 or in July 1942.
I asked this also in the German Forums I think someone there knows it.
Svenja
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Ok, wait to hear from your German forum.
Regards
Goldie
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I don't think it matters as the Dornier 215, 217 and even the older Do17 (the Flying Pencil) looked much the same. Sgt. Turzanski only identified it as a 215 by the silhouette. The American Liberator had the same double fin tail, but that I think came later. Whoever wrote that report seems to have got a little confused too.
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I wondered if there might be a report in NZ papers, but only came across another sad story that took place in St Audries Bay - 3 years earlier.
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=EG19381018.2.15&srpos=1&e=-------10--1----2st+audries+bay--
Another crash, another mangled body, and this time without doubt no grave at all.
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Oh that's horrid! I have heard of such a story and never really believed it, but it's so awful to read it and know it's true!
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Hiya , ive already replied to this subject somewhere else but seem to have lost it... have been following this story with great interest , so much so I travelled to the graveyard and filmed the memorial/grave. ironically theres an RAF pilot buried just feet away... excuse my inability to film in a professional way. just thought someone might like to see where they rest ,,, regards
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g71F752mYfA
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Hi
I have just found a Verlustliste of the Kampfgeschwader 2
Source: Der Luftkrieg in Europa, 2 Bände, Balke Ulf, 1998
http://www.denkmalprojekt.org/2017/vl-kampfgeschwader-2_a-e_wk2.html
There are mentionned Bruno Adler, Fritz Bartol and Johann Egger,
who all were missed as nightfighter at Watchet on 01./02.11.1941.
Unfortunately without more personal details like date and place of birth.
Maybe this one is the right Bruno Adler, he is also missed in England in 1941!
http://www.denkmalprojekt.org/2011/duttenbrunn_wk1_wk2_bay.html
He is mentionned on a memorial in Duttenbrunn, Markt Zellingen, Landkreis Main-Spessart, Bavaria.
But it is also mentionned that he was a "Heimatvertriebener", so he was born at another place and his family had to leave their hometown at the end of WWII.
Regards
Svenja
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Have you looked in the book 'Somerset at War'? I have a copy and I recall it being very thorough on listing details of German aircraft brought down over Somerset. It mentions names if possible and also photos of graves etc, I shall have a look tonight.
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This thread intrigued me, as I know St Audries Bay well.
When considering bombing raids, don't forget ROF just outside of Bridgwater was also a target, you also have Westonzoyland Airfield, so ponder if any planes went out from there.
I also wonder whether the Somerset Lights Infantry, might have a record or two buried in their record collection. As they may have dealt with the service men once found, as I'm should imagine that they would have been in charge of the Donniford Army Camp Just up the road.
As for Newspaper reports.
You have the Taunton Gazzette which is digitised,
Another Taunton newspaper (which isn't digitised but is on microfilm at the record office)
Also, Brigwater Mercury which the British Newspaper Archieve have digitised some of
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The book briefly mentions a Dornier being shot down on Nov 1st over St Audries bay but it doesn't mention much more about it.
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I suggest that you approach the CWGC. Obviously German aircrew do not appear on their online records but they do hold lists of such persons and their records of consideration of movement to Cannock Chase etc may have mention of both known and possible burials and even unresolved cases. Certainly worth a try.
Imber
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I think you will find the aircraft you are interested in was a Dornier 217 from 4/KG2. It was shot down on1st November 1941 and crashed into St Audries Bay. I have further details if you would like them.