RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: stockton on Wednesday 19 November 14 17:14 GMT (UK)
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;) Hi all, i'm looking for any one researching Mackintosh/Macintosh/McIntosh,
i'm surmising Mackintosh's started in Scotland, my Mackintosh's ended up in Wolsingham,
Co Durham, 1st couple John & Ann Mackintosh.
John Mackintosh died 1828 age 84,
Ann Mackintosh { no maiden name } died 1820 age 68
They had 5 children
John Mackintosh. William Mackintosh. Robert Hunter Mackintosh { possibly mother's maiden name} James Mackintosh & George Mackintosh.
All children born Wolsingham, Co Durham.
I would love to find a connection to John & Ann Mackintosh.
All the best.
Derek :)
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Hello
I am a McIntosh born in Stockton-On-Tees. I have researched my family and have also reached John and Ann of Wolsingham. I have information on four children but no mention of Robert Hunter Mackintosh. Could you please direct me to the source of your information on Robert.
Thanks
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Hi Mctosh.
my source is Durham records online.
I'm a Stockotn lad born and live in Bliingham,
iv'e had contact with a Stockton McIntosh before but we couldn't find his connection to mine,
i'm decended from James & George McIntosh, William.
If you have any information on any connection to the Stockton McIntosh's send me a pm,
we could exchage info.
Derek ;)
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I have researched my family and have also reached John and Ann of Wolsingham. I have information on four children but no mention of Robert Hunter Mackintosh. Could you please direct me to the source of your information on Robert.
my source is Durham records online.
Derek, I hope you don't mind :D I am adding a link to your thread on this family, where a lot of the source information can be seen
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=676149.msg5209779#msg5209779
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;) Ok jen,
no problem and thanks.
All the best.
Derek ;)
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Hello Derek,
Thank you for the source location of Robert Hunter Mackintosh. I wonder if you have any more information on this Robert or on any of the Wolsingham Mackintosh's brothers.
As you say there are five Mackintosh sons of John and Ann (Wolsingham).
This is some information in which I have researched and you and perhaps others may be interested.
John(1789) married Elizabeth Dodds(1791) in 1808 in Wolsingham.
James(1796) married Ann(1796 b.Ireland) and their son George(1826 b.Wolsingham) moved to Hartlepool. The census shows Ann moved to live with him in later life. It seems you belong to this branch.
George (1796) married Jane Dickinson(1797) in 1814 in Wolsingham but this family were living in Middlesbrough at the time of the 1841 census.
William(1791) married Rachel Stuart(1801) in 1820. They had two children born in Wolsingham Jane (1820) and John (1822). The family seem to have moved to Monkwearmouth where Hannah (1824) May Ann(1827) and Mary(1829) were born. They then moved to Middlesbrough where their last child was born Rachel(1832).
William(1791) is shown in the 1841 and 1851 census living in Middlesbrough. The 1851 Census shows Williams birthplace as sic. Wolsington
William(1791) 's son John Mackintosh(1822) is shown as single in the 1841 census living in Stainton as a potter. John (1822) married Ann Deal (Doyle) 1843. They had one child Alice(1844) who only survived a few weeks. His wife Ann Mackintosh died in 1848.
John(1822) by this time living in Stockton remarried a widow Ellen Pullin (Nee Smith - Daughter of Wilson Smith) and they had three children Wilson McIntosh(1851) Rachel McIntosh(1852) and William McIntosh(1856).
John(1822) died in 1859 and Ellen Mackintosh remarried an Irishman John Craig and their progress and the three McIntosh step childen can be followed in the census. A record of John(1822)'s death can be found in the Durham County Advertiser.
Wilson McIntosh(1851) married Mary Watson and had eight Children. Rachel(1852) married late in life Thomas Appleton((1855) in 1892 and had no children. William McIntosh(1856) married Elizabeth Gillson(1862) in 1880 and had ten children.
To cut a long story short one of these children of William(1856) Robert McIntosh(1895) is my paternal grandfather.
This is only my second post. Not sure how pm works yet or anything else on this website. Hope someone can shed light on your original query.
Mctosh
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Hi Mctosh,
Make one more post to be able to use the PM system. You need to have made 3 posts, look for the little icon, looks like a page with 3 lines on under the persons name that you want to pm. Press the icon then type your message, be aware you cannot attach images etc to the pm.
Tom
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Hello
I will enjoy having a read through all this information - James Mackintosh (Wolsingham) was my G G G Grandfather. I have got one bit of info that might be on here, (I haven't had time to read everything yet, sorry!) but from family stories that I have researched, it seems that John, who is James' father was born in Edinburgh in 1743 (parents John Mackintosh and Euphame Johnstone of Orkney) ran away to England with one of his brothers, or possibly a friend not a brother, to avoid being deported for poaching! This is how this particular group of Mackintoshes ended up in England, so I'm told. I find all this stuff fascinating. :)
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;) Hi Jenny, i'm decended from James & Ann, also,
it appears thiers no marriage certificate for them, i dont suppose you know where in
Ireland Ann is from, no information to be got from James Death certificate.
Love the part about how the Mackintosh's came to England, have you got further back
than John & Ann.
I have sent you a pm, tried for another but your pm box full.
All the best. ;)
Derek
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Thank you - I've never had a pm before so I'm not sure why the box is full, I haven't worked out how to get to it yet actually!
No, I've not investigated James and Ann really, but I have seen details of the marriage of John Mackintosh's father John to Euphame in Edinburgh. She appears to have come from Orkney, but knowing her and her father's name doesn't help much as there are LOADS of people with the same names in the same place.
It is possible that John snr ( the Edinburgh one) is the merchant mentioned on the internet as winning the "Edinburgh Arrow" archery prize, but of course he may not be. Still lots to find out.
Jenny
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Hi jennymack,
You need to make one more post, so people can PM you, and you can PM them.
After 3 posts, look at the persons name on rootschat, there is either a green or white icon, looks like a page with 3 lines on it, click on the icon, then you catnip your PM then send.
Tom
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Ahh right, thank you for the info!
Jenny
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Jennymack ;)
cant wait to hear from you, please when time allows send any information on McIntosh's and i will do the same, id'e have got no where fast with out jenB & groom two lovely lass's & all the other folks give thier time & kindness so freely { bless em all ;) }
You have my e-mail but will post any information for other folks either to help or help other
McIntosh's.
Cant wait :D
Derek ;)
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Hi Jennymack
Thanks so much for the oral history.
The information seems to be quite specific which makes it really interesting. Considering the length of time approx 200 years and the number of generations, five six, the information has passed through, I personally think the information is likely to be pretty accurate.
Mctosh
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Me to ;)
dont forget Mctosh & jennymack any thing on mackintosh/Mcintosh's welcome.
Derek ;)
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Hello
I did find a record of a marriage between a Robert Mcintosh and Euphame Johnstone 26 Mar 1738. The location Parish,Edinburgh,Midlothian,Scotland.
They appear to have had a few children
Elizabeth Mackintosh(1740)
Nicol Mackintosh(1741)
John Mackintosh(1743)
Lachlan Mackintosh(1746)
The population of Edinburgh in 1700 was estimated at between 50-60,000 people.
Although McIntosh in quite a common name Euphame Johnstone is not so common.
For a marriage between a Euphame Johnstone and a McIntosh with a child John Mackintosh born 1743 would be quite rare.
The oral history differs in that the name of John's father is Robert not John otherwise Euphame Johnstone OK. Location OK Year of birth OK Origin of Euphame Johnstone yet unknown.
Mctosh
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Hello McTosh
I'm sorry for the confusion, you are quite correct - it should be Robert, that's them, I put the wrong name as there are so many Johns in the line I had forgotten he was a Robert!
The story actually comes from two places, as another man who is also distantly related told me (when discussing the family tree) a very similar version which had been passed on verbally in his family - so I think it is very likely to be true. I don't think the brother called Lachlan came to England, as there is a death of someone likely to be him in Edinburgh, but the one called Nicol never crops up anywhere - maybe he died young, or maybe he moved to Northumberland and changed his name. All interesting stuff, just wish I had more time to look into it. Might get a moment later on once I get this mob of current day family sorted out!
Jenny
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Hi jenny & Mctosh,
when my friends here on rootschat started to help me on McIntosh's and
Robert Hunter Mackintosh turned up, it was suggested this could have been a clue to
John's wife { maiden name } but now with Euphame Johnstone turning up ??? bang
goes our theory.
Its all so fascinating well done jenny & Mctosh ;)
Derek
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Hello
Working on the principle that people didn't move around so much in those days I looked for the baptism record of a Robert Mackintosh in the same Parish and found one 1694. That would make Robert 44 years at the age of his marriage.
Duncan Mcintosh married Jean Brisbaine (Brisben)11 APR 1672 and had the following children
William Mcintosh(1673)
Lauglane Mcintosh(1678)
Mary Mcintosh(1680)
Jean Mcintosh(1681)
James Mcintosh(1682)
John Mcintosh(1684)
Helen Mcintosh(1686)
Robert Mackintosh(1694)
Well Robert Mackintosh(1694) might or might not be the Robert Mcintosh who married Euphame Johstone in 1738. I forgot to mention earlier that record shows the father of Euphame Johnstone as George Johnstone. It is early days yet.
Mctosh
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Well done Mctosh, you have the lead on this ;) and my are you doing well :D
Looking forward to your posts more than ever :)
Thank you and once again well done ;)
Derek
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Hi, i got my wires crossed for awhile there Robert Hunter Mackintosh his mother Ann's
maiden name could still be hunter ;),
how to connect these early McIntosh's to our Wolsingham folks :D
Derek ;)
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Sorry to have aroused some interest and then be a bit erratic in coming on here, I'm not ignoring you, honestly - I'm back at Uni today, after a very busy weekend of meetings and sick children! I went to look where I thought I had stored various documents (electronically) and work I did on the family tree last year to link the Edinburgh Mackintoshes to the rest, and I can't get into the account where I think they are - I'm trying to track down some emails that helped me get to that point at the time, but haven't got there yet as they are also in an old email account. So....a bit useless, and nothing to update you on!
The good news is that I have started a new project at Uni today and I am doing something which will allow me to spend a fair bit of time on the computer doing more family research, and yet I can still call it coursework! Hopefully I will be able to crack the code of the account I can't get into, and dig out the info.
Jenny
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Ok jenny ;)
Good luck.
Derek
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Hi Derek and Jennymack
The question is whether John Mackintosh c.1743 (Wolsingham) is the son of Robert Mackintosh and Euphame Johnson (married 1738) Edinburgh?
At the risk of doing Jennymack's University coursework for her;
I have been checking original source material from the Scotlands People website and you may be interested in some details. The writing is difficult and I have no experience reading and interpreting old documents but feel free to check yourselves for any errors or misinterpretations.
The marriage of Duncan Mcintosh and Jean Brisbain took place 11th April 1672.
In the baptism of Robert Mackintosh 13th April 1694 the occupation of Duncan is that of a merchant and baillie (I believe this to be a civic office) which shows he was a prominent person.
In the marriage of Robert Mackintosh 26th March 1738 his occupation is shown as a Writter (I believe that to be a lawyer) and he is of that parish. Euphame Johnstone is the daughter of the deceased George Johnstone in time in Orkney but now in this parish.
The baptism record of John Mackintosh 11th Feb 1743 shows his father Robert's occupation as a Writer in Court (which I think shows he was indeed a lawyer).
From this information I would suggest that these are extremely prominent Edinburgh families of the time especially Robert Mackintosh. Almost certainly John Mackintosh(1743) as the son of a lawyer would have gone to a good school and be well educated.
Is this the same John Mackintosh who moves to Wolsingham and ends up a chimney sweep and pauper?
I know from documents that John Mackintosh's grandson also John Mackintosh (1822)(son of William Mackintosh(1791) is illiterate.
This link between the Edinburgh and Wolsingham Mackintoshs although very possible does seem a little weak so I do wonder how strong the oral history evidence really is.
Mctosh
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Hi Mctosh, a lot to take in there but you are working well, i will go over this a few times to take in properly.
Hoping to hear from you again Mctosh.
Derek
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Hello
The confusion over Robert Hunter Macintosh is compounded by the IGI record on batch P000901 (Wolsingham) where his surname is spelt Macintost?
This batch has christenings for all 5 John & Ann children.
The name Robert comes from his paternal grandfather. It is possible that the name Hunter could come from his maternal grandfather - either as a Christian name or as a surname.
It may be worthwhile researching Robert Hunters mother Ann with Hunter as a surname.
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Hi drjohmc,
i was told some time ago on this site that Robert Hunter McIntosh's middle name might prove to be important, where would i put my posting, England/Scotland?
Any help would be greatly appreciated by all.
Many thanks.
Derek ;)
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Working on the principle that people didn't move around so much in those days I looked for the baptism record of a Robert Mackintosh in the same Parish and found one 1694.
It's a useful working hypothesis, but a very dangerous assumption, especially with a common surname. Just because this Robert is the only one in the available records does not mean that he is the right one. Many baptisms, especially as early as the 17th century, were never recorded, or, if they were, the record has not survived.
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Thank you for your observation, it is valid and very valuable. I do agree 100%. Mackintosh is a very common name and Edinburgh being a large town makes research at this time additionally difficult. I imagine too at this time the number of families with records are tiny relative to those without records.
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Hi mctosh ;)
so glad you are keeping eye on this one :D
All the best.
Derek. :)
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Derek,
As a newcomer to RootsChat I have looked at various threads concerning McIntosh in its various spellings.
I now know we are related but I'm not sure how! Let me explain...
My line...
Starting with John Macintosh and Ann (married early 1780's)
2nd child - William Macintosh (b1791) and Rachael Stuart (b1792) (m1820)
2nd child - John Macintosh (b1822) and Ellen Pullin (nee Smith) (b1821) (m1849)
3rd child - William Macintosh [*A] (b1856) and Elizabeth Gillson (b1862) (m1880)
5th child - Robert Macintosh (b1895) and Ellen Cain (b1898) (m1920)
(Robert and Ellen are my grandparents.)
Your line...
Starting with John Macintosh and Ann (married early 1780's)
4th child - James Macintosh (b1796) and Ann (b Ireland)
4th child - George Macintosh (b1826)
2nd child - William Macintosh [*B] (b1855)
1st child - John William Macintosh (b1887)
This gets more interesting in the 1891 Census for Middle St, Stockton...
My Great grandfather William (*A above) lived at No 1 Middle St with his wife Elizabeth
and four children.
William (*B above) lived at 3 Middle Street with his wife Margaret and one child.
William was born 1855 in West Hartlepool.
William (*A above) surname was given as McIntosh. His 3rd Child born 1889 was called John
BUT in the 1901 census was called John W. (John W wwas my grandfather's older brother)
William (*B above) surname was given an Macintosh. His only child was called John William (b1887)
It would seem the 5 generations and 100+ years on from John and Ann there would be TWO John William children born within 2 years off one another living in the same street in Stockton.
One further point..
My John William married Sara Jane Whitehead 02 Jan 1915 (Civil) and was married agin in St Mary's RC Church Stockton 01 Apr 1932.
John
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;)drjohnmc, i always wondered about the two McIntosh's in Middle st, just didn't know if they were
connected, my maternal great grandparents had a son called John William McIntosh, he died in
great war early 1914, they had a daughter Norah McIntosh, she married W Tippey, they are my maternal grandparents.
I will send you a pm with my e-mail address if ok.
Derek ;)
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Derek,
No problem with the e-mail.
I'm sure the two families are connected.
The second John William is your JW - all the facts fit.
John
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Derek,
1901 Census 7, Ann St Stockton
Nora (born 1896) is living with her Mother Margaret age 37. No sign of William and John William.
Image of Census is attached.
John
Image removed , copyright , you may provide your own transcription.
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There are extensive threads involving John William here
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=689917.msg5337927#msg5337927
and here
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=707871.msg5510305#msg5510305
and possibly some others.
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Hi
I'm also a descendant of the McIntosh's from Wolsingham and have found the above interesting.
I've got as far back as John & Ann too. From them my connection is with their son William M McIntosh. He quite rightly married Rachael Stewart in 1820. Rachael had a former marriage to James Stewart, 1809 Wolsingham, and her maiden name was Brown.
William & Rachel's daughter, Hannah b. 1824, married Joseph Jones 1845, Middlesborough.
Hannah and Joseph had three children that I have recorded to date. Of them, the first one Rachel Jones b. app 1848 is my Gt Gt Grandmother.
Rachel Jones married George William Smith in Feb 1866 in Middlesborough. They had seven children of which the second one, another George William Smith b. 1869 Middlesborough is my Gt Grandfather.
Now all was not as it seemed with George & Rachel and sometime 1879/80 the family moved down to London and changed their name from 'Smith' to 'Middleditch'. In doing my research I believe George William Smith senior was actually born 'Middleditch' in London c 1842, and moved up North, for whatever reason, and changed his name to 'Smith'. It must have been a surprise to Rachel when he uprooted them all and took them down to London.
George William Smith Middleditch married Ada Emily White, 1895 Shenfield, Essex. They had 7 children of which the 5th was my Grandmother, Ada Elizabeth Middleditch born 1906, Billericay.
I have a query with my line I have yet to solve. The 1851 census through to 1891 has my Gt Gt grandmother Rachel Jones being born in Scotland. Being as her parents and grandparents were all born in the Durham area, who did Hannah go to for the birth? I have not found a birth certificate for Rachel but am not a member of Scotlands People to be able to look for it.
There is also a 'rumour' in my family about leaving Scotland and going South. Wasn't poaching, but two brothers fighting and one got injured. My Aunt told me this and she said she was told by her Grandmother. there must be a truth in the rumours in the different families for the different threads to all have a version. I'd be interested in the other versions.
Incidentally I was brought up in Whitby, Nth Yorkshire and never knew a branch of my family resided in Middlesborough! Our family holidays were always spent camping in Scotland too. My Dad loved it up there, so much so, that he has lived in the Highlands (Kyle of Lochalsh) for the last 35 years! (He was born in Kent, as was I). I have also sung in Durham Cathedral!
Sue
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Hi again,
Have any of you done the Ancestry DNA test?
I have, and I'd be interested to see if it has 'connected' any of us McIntosh's that have.
Sue
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Hi
There's no such thing as "membership" of ScotlandsPeople, an official Scottish Government site. Anyone can visit the site and perform a very basic free search. If you want to take things further then just register free of charge and buy a few credits to dig deeper.
Imber
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Hi
Imber: I stand corrected re the Scotlandspeople site and 'membership'!
I know how it works as I have used it in the past, very unsuccessfully I might add, so 'wasted' my credits. Now I'm too wary to use it again. :(
I have no objection to paying a yearly membership if that option was offered, I already subscribe to two sites in this manner (A***stry and F**P). Spend many a happy hour searching those and have done for years.
Cheers
Sue
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I have no objection to paying a yearly membership if that option was offered
I wish! But at the moment there is no subscription option.
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I have no objection to paying a yearly membership if that option was offered, I already subscribe to two sites in this manner (A***stry and F**P). Spend many a happy hour searching those and have done for years.
Sue,
There is plenty of info. on how to use SP (in laymens terms) or just ask on here.
Once you work out how to manipulate it..........it can be very cost effective & you can download certs. there & then at a fraction of the cost for other sites whereby you have to order them by snail mail unless of course they fall in with date restrictions but can be ordered via their site at no extra cost like others do as a third party & it's the only place you can purchase Scottish records.
Annie
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Hi
Rosinish: You're convincing me to try SP again! The 'clincher' was that certificates can be ordered via the site!
I will make it my 'project' for 2016 to find my way around it. I have many certificates proving my links, but not had a Scottish one in the collection.
Have spent this morning going through these posts again (printed out) and checking/adding to my tree re laptop. I previously had only filled in my direct lines - now looking at their siblings. The various McIntosh/Mackintosh families certainly seem to like using the same names!
Sue
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Am I a little bit excited!
Booked a holiday 'up North' in Durham area, as we are planning on moving to the North in the next couple of years (I was brought up in Whitby, Nth Yorkshire) so am considering it a move 'home' albeit a bit further North! This trip will be a recce of the area to see where we want to settle. We're going to be staying not far from Stanhope.
Was investigating local interests and looking at a map. Spotted that Wolsingham wasn't far from where we were staying and thought 'that place name is familiar'. Checked FH program and was reminded that my McIntosh's were from there! So now some family history is also on the agenda, checking out the church, etc for graves.
Have got not further with my research re McIntosh's as I've been looking at other family. But now am checking and making a list ready for the trip!
Excited :)
Anyone related living locally I would love a chance to meet up! (July/August - 2 weeks)
A reminder I am descended from: John McIntosh and Ann's son William M McIntosh and his second wife Rachael (nee Brown) - my 4 x Gt Grandparents.
Cheers
Sue
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Hello
Working on the principle that people didn't move around so much in those days I looked for the baptism record of a Robert Mackintosh in the same Parish and found one 1694. That would make Robert 44 years at the age of his marriage.
Duncan Mcintosh married Jean Brisbaine (Brisben)11 APR 1672 and had the following children
William Mcintosh(1673)
Lauglane Mcintosh(1678)
Mary Mcintosh(1680)
Jean Mcintosh(1681)
James Mcintosh(1682)
John Mcintosh(1684)
Helen Mcintosh(1686)
Robert Mackintosh(1694)
Well Robert Mackintosh(1694) might or might not be the Robert Mcintosh who married Euphame Johstone in 1738. I forgot to mention earlier that record shows the father of Euphame Johnstone as George Johnstone. It is early days yet.
Mctosh
In case anyone arrives at this thread looking into Duncan McIntosh or his descendants, Duncan is recorded in the Edinburgh Register of Apprentices as the son of the late McIntosh of Aberarder in 1661. This would make him the son of William McIntosh of Aberarder, grandson of Duncan of Aberarder, great-grandson of Lachlan McIntosh of that Ilk. Edinburgh Register of Apprentices, p.119.